Breaking Dawn
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Twilight v. Harry Potter?
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Mar 28, 2009 12:09PM
u wanna bet? he made a comment on this topic during one of hs interviews
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His opinion is so important because?...It's only one opinion among others. So his doesn't matter. I hate it when people follow a celebrity's comments.
Whoa, people calm down. Kelsey, there was no need for you to question Autumn's sanity. People are entitled to hold their opinions no matter what. And if you disagree with someone, say so in a polite manner. Even if Stephen King made a remark, it doesn't mean everyone has to follow it.
Clara, I think you summed up your points well. Bella isn't shallow, but she (as most people) has her weaknesses. Also, I agree with you that Harry Potter has a deeper meaning.
Autumn, why do you feel Harry Potter doesn't have a deep meaning? J.K. Rowling wrote it to teach people a lesson about friendship, loyalty, bigotry, hypocrisy, questioning authority, wanting power, corruption of government, power of love, self-sacrifice etc... Those are all examples of how Harry Potter is deeper, so I don't understand why you don't think it is deep and disagree with Clara. Twilight has only one main theme which is love, and what someone will do for love, so self-sacrifice. And maybe if you really over think it, Twilight does say a thing or two about the Volturi wanting power, and a few vampires questioning it. But that's it.
Lavanya wrote: "Whoa, people calm down. Kelsey, there was no need for you to question Autumn's sanity. People are entitled to hold their opinions no matter what. And if you disagree with someone, say so in a poli..."
I think whether or not it has a "deeper" meaning will be left to personal opinion. But Twilight had everything you mentioned. Friendship between Bella and Jacob, for loyalty Bella had to choose between Edward and Jacob, Edward was prejudice against Jacob, Bella was mad when Edward didn't tell her how he did this or that after he promised, the Volturi are the vampires form of government and Aro is corrupt. I don't remember any hypocrisy in HP. Please tell me where that fits in.
Anyway, sometimes I just want something that isn't trying to intrude on my morals.
Of course, it's your personal opinion, I just wanted to understand why you thought Harry Potter wasn't "deeper" than Twilight.Your examples are good, but I still feel that Harry Potter had stronger examples, and many of them. As far as hypocrisy, I can't think of a strong one, but I know its in there. Here is a small example though: Molly Weasely is mad at Bill for wanting to marry Fleur so suddenly, and at a young age. She is being a hypocrite because she got married at such a young age as well. In a matter of fact, she eloped.
Anyways, sure it makes sense to want to read something once in a while that doesn't intrude on your morals. I only brought it up because you and Clara mentioned it above.
look i wasn't questioning sanity it was more like a joke u know how people or crazy or somethin. i guess she took it a bit seriusly. The thing is that if people READ into the book they would see that there wasn't much to it. the book had little story to it. it was mostly belle love edward bella want to sleep with edward bell get pregnant and go crazy
Yes, I guess we misinterpreted what you were try to get across. Sorry about that. Anyways, I happen to hold a similar opinion as yours, though not as strong. Twilight is an entertaining book, but I feel that Harry Potter is on a different level.
Kelsey wrote: "look i wasn't questioning sanity it was more like a joke u know how people or crazy or somethin. i guess she took it a bit seriusly. The thing is that if people READ into the book they would see th..."The way you wrote it didn't sound like a joke. Plus sometimes I need something thats not so complex. If you need a book that requires you to be alert at every moment, then go ahead. But please don't say there was little story.
most books i read do not need u to b alert but this book was just a disaster it was like she wanted these thoughts in her book but didn't get them straightened a jumble of words mixed together
You aren't the only one who feels that way. But I guess many people found it easier to read this type of writing style. Just so you know, I like both Twilight and Harry Potter.
i just cant see y people like it so much like y is that???
It is easier for average people. I am in honors lit classes, yet I still enjoyed the easy reading. The language is closer to a normal conversation. Sometimes I had to pause and think about what JKR meant.
does that mean ur saying average people r stupid
No, I did not mean any offense of any sort. I was merely stating that more people can understand it so more people are enjoying what they're reading. More reading equals better grammar and punctuation, higher understanding of what they like, and expanding their vocab.
though if they are reading twilight they arn't getting better grammar or better vocab since there is little of both in the books
I think what Autumn means is that Twilight was written in a style that most people find easier to read because it sounds like a normal conversation. Also, some people make sense of what's going on in a story when it is written in first person. A lot people I know told me that Twilight actually made them want to read. It was very realistic at certain points. Bella went to a normal high school, for example. It was easier to imagine the story in comparison to Harry Potter, because they've never heard of anything like his world.
well i find that reading books on this topic is going to end up killing the brain since it is like the show hannah montana or the clique books or zach and cody
Thank you Lavanya. How many times do you hear chagrin in any normal conversation? Just a thought. And you must not like comedy Kelsey. Or are you just very critical about everything and don't like to just let your brain not think?
chagrin is used ALL the time in most GOOD books and i LOVE comedy
This conversation is getting nowhere, but if we - no offense intended her - calm down a little, we could get somewhere interesting since we disagree with each other. Let's begin with our definition of what a good book should compromise, and what the point of it should be, without thinking about any of these books. Should it be to educate, to entertain, to escape...?
Clara wrote: "This conversation is getting nowhere, but if we - no offense intended her - calm down a little, we could get somewhere interesting since we disagree with each other. Let's begin with our definitio..."My definition changes depending on my mood. But I always prefer a fantasy. Entertaining is my highest priority.
Entertaining, yeah, that's the most important. If a book doesn't entertain, it won't educate you, and you can't escape either, so books sort-of have to entertain for the rest to get done. Do we need books to educate or to give us things to think about?
I think we do. We have to have a basic set of principles, and one of the places we get that is from books. SO if books help you think about a particular subject, it'll help you form a principle regarding that subject. But I don't think all books have to be about your 'set of principles.' Maybe you want to see the characters abiding by your principles. Or maybe principles should have nothing to do with it.
Clara wrote: "This conversation is getting nowhere, but if we - no offense intended her - calm down a little, we could get somewhere interesting since we disagree with each other. Let's begin with our definitio..."My definition of a ideal book always changes, but I always prefer fantasy. I absolutely love fantasy, and that will never change. Usually, I look for highly developed characters, and an entertaining plot. I hate seriously unoriginal books that are completely predictable. So, for that to happen it has to be entertaining. As far as whether it should educate, entertain, or allow us to escape - I am not entirely sure which is more important, because I prefer all of them at different times. Fantasy always lets me escape, so I guess I can add that to my list of what I think is an ideal book.
QUALITIES OF A GOOD BOOK (working)
1. Well-developed, interesting, round characters.
2. Originality in plot.
3. Originality regarding ideas.
4. Entertaining, interesting.
1. Well-developed, interesting, round characters.
2. Originality in plot.
3. Originality regarding ideas.
4. Entertaining, interesting.
Imagining these are the qualities we're looking for (and we can still add to the list, I suppose) does Harry Potter or Twilight fit in better?
I know you're going to say Harry Potter, but for me Twilight. That is all.
Clara wrote: "Imagining these are the qualities we're looking for (and we can still add to the list, I suppose) does Harry Potter or Twilight fit in better?"Personally, I think Harry Potter fits all those qualities, strongly. Whereas, Twilight only fits number 4 perfectly - entertaining, interesting, and definitely number 1, because some of the characters are interesting, and are developed to some extent.
Why, though? Begin with the first one. Which book has more well-developed characters? Now I'd say that Bella and Edward are more developed than Harry, Ron, and Hermione, but in Harry Potter we have so many other characters who are developed.
Hey, that's just me. I feel the characters in Twilight as living breathing "people." (ha, pun intended) I can pretend Bella or Alice or Edward is standing right next to me telling me what happened next. I can't do that with Harry. Part of it is probably because it's in 3rd person.
Okay, for number 1:Twilight has really good characters. I really love Alice Cullen because she has this unique, bubbly personality which I have seen people portray in real life. And because it is first person, we can get inside of Bella's head and see what's going on. So her character is as developed as it can get. Edward almost always acts in a particular way which makes him consistent. But the side characters aren't as developed.
However, in Harry Potter, we have multiple characters that are developed. For example, Ron and Hermione are always bickering - I've seen examples of people who are always like that, yet love each other dearly. I feel that Harry, Hermione, and Ron are very developed and maintain the same personality throughout the series. The side characters also have set personalities, and they mature as the series progresses - for example, Neville. I'd like to point out that there are way more characters in Harry Potter than Twilight, and all of them are developed to some extent.
Autumn wrote: "Hey, that's just me. I feel the characters in Twilight as living breathing "people." (ha, pun intended) I can pretend Bella or Alice or Edward is standing right next to me telling me what happen..."I agree that I felt that way in Twilight too, but I was able to relate to all the characters in Harry Potter.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. In HP, there is a huge cast of characters who are developed. There are characters like Lupin, Tonks, Professor McGonagall, Hagrid...the list goes on. I'm trying to find something to say for Twilight, but I really can't, because there are so many more developed characters in it. The Cullen's do have personalities. We could go deeper into, say, Harry's personality, but I say HP wins number 1. By the way, on the 6th comment down on this page, I was responding to Autumn.
Lavanya wrote: "Autumn wrote: "Hey, that's just me. I feel the characters in Twilight as living breathing "people." (ha, pun intended) I can pretend Bella or Alice or Edward is standing right next to me telling..."I couldn't, maybe that's because they're in a mythical world. It's easier to believe mythical beings in our world. But I get your point.
So...does HP win for number one, or are we still debating this?
Clara wrote: "So...does HP win for number one, or are we still debating this?"I think so, but Twilight is a really close second though.
OK. What about number 2 - originality in plot? Twilight has such cool allusions to other books, but HP has so many other side plots going on too that tie together.
I finished with this. Twilight wins everything for me, and that's my final post unless someone wants me to defend Twilgiht again. Let me know when someone talks bad about Twilgiht again.
Clara wrote: "OK. What about number 2 - originality in plot?"Twilight has three major plot lines. One being the forbidden romance between Edward - loving him, even though he happens to be a vampire, and having to deal with those complications. The second would be the romance between Jacob - even though she loves Edward, she likes Jacob too, so she has to pick between the two. The last one is the whole idea of the bad vamps bothering good vampires - those would include the nomads, and the Volturi vs. the Cullens, and their friends.
As far as originality goes, there have been many other vampire man/human girl romances, and we've all heard of love triangles too. Plus, I've read books with werewolves before. So two of those plot lines aren't entirely original. Now, as far as I know, I haven't heard of any good vampires vs. bad vampires. Meaning plot line number three is unique to SM.
On the other hand, Harry Potter has one major plot line - Voldemort vs. Harry. But, we have thousands of side plots that all tie into the greater scheme of things. I haven't seen any other author mention so many details and intricately tie them all together. Also, Harry Potter is very original. I haven't heard of many stories about wizards, and she's completely developed their world. Hogwarts, spells (she created them all, although we have heard of spells), Gringotts, Diagon Alley, co-existence with "Muggles," and of course, Horcruxes. Her plot was extremely developed because she made everything unique to her novel, even though she borrowed so much from mythology.
In that sense, both books are unique, but they aren't completely "original" either. But I'd have to say Harry Potter is more original, because I haven't heard of any other intense "Wizard" novels. Whereas, I've heard of vampire/human romances.
Autumn wrote: "I finished with this. Twilight wins everything for me, and that's my final post unless someone wants me to defend Twilgiht again. Let me know when someone talks bad about Twilgiht again."sure thing, Autumn.
Lavanya wrote: "Clara wrote: "OK. What about number 2 - originality in plot?"
Twilight has three major plot lines. One being the forbidden romance between Edward - loving him, even though he happens to be a vampi..."
I totally agree with you. I am a Twilight fan, Autumn. But Harry Potter is inarguably more creative and original. Harry's world is so incredibly detailed, and I've never seen an author do that before.They both fit into number 4. So, in general, HP fulfills more of these qualities more, but Twilight also fulfills these qualities some. And Twilight has other points that make it a good book. So, in my opinion, HP wins, but Twilight is also close to this.
And, Autumn, you know this was a discussion, so I think that argument is a reasonable outcome of that. Obviously we're not all going to agree. That's okay.
Twilight has three major plot lines. One being the forbidden romance between Edward - loving him, even though he happens to be a vampi..."
I totally agree with you. I am a Twilight fan, Autumn. But Harry Potter is inarguably more creative and original. Harry's world is so incredibly detailed, and I've never seen an author do that before.They both fit into number 4. So, in general, HP fulfills more of these qualities more, but Twilight also fulfills these qualities some. And Twilight has other points that make it a good book. So, in my opinion, HP wins, but Twilight is also close to this.
And, Autumn, you know this was a discussion, so I think that argument is a reasonable outcome of that. Obviously we're not all going to agree. That's okay.
Yes, I agree with you too. I am HUGE fan of both books. I've got posters of Edward Cullen in my room, I have four books from the Saga, and I regularly check SM's websites - uh, every day actually. I even saw the movie the day it came out!Obsessed? Who, me? Nah. :)
With that being said, I think that even though I do love Twilight, I have to say, I believe that Harry Potter is a better book. I completely understand why other people will choose to disagree with me. Obviously, through this discussion people have realized that both books are incredible and are worthy of praise. Some just prefer one over the other.
Thanks, Lavanya! I really can't think of more to say!
Taia wrote: Stephenie Meyer is good because she came up with good characters and a new image of of old folklore. However her style is to make you fall in love with Edward and wish you were BellaI agreed with your entire post except for this part. I didn't care for Edward that much, and Bella annoyed me so no I don't think her style was great. I think Stephanie Meyer created an interesting story with a new spin. But frankly her writing was horrible.
Now to the comparison. I am glad that both Meyers and JKR get people to read again! That is the best thing about their books. But frankly HP was well written, with clear plots, well developed characters and a flawed hero that you rooted for the entire time. Where as the Twilight series suffered from plot holes, boring one sided characters and a horrible heroine.
JKR is an amazing woman, who has pulled herself and her children from welfare to being millionaires. She give a substantial amount of money every year to charities and created her own.
Several times over parts of JKR books were leaked to the internet, not once did she have a public hissy fit and then refuse to finish writing a book to "punish" us.
Hands down JKR is a classy lady, who cares about her fans, while I tend to think Stephanie Meyers has let fame go to her head.
Lavanya, thank you.... your tact is very refreshing... I agree that HP is meant to be deep and teach many different morals.... SM does have a moral but no where near the same as HP...
I agree that a good book is purely meant to entertain in order to provide the reader with a place to escape to or teach them about life.... and although I think HP is incredibly written, it is slightly harder to imagine life there, whereas life in Forks with a freakishly hot vampire for a boyfirend is easier.... Also JKR is British which means that her English is a million times better than we Americans... but that also means that we have to frequently stop and think in order to make a connection from Britain to America... Because SM is American.... her writing style is that of our speaking style which means that it flows better for many people who do not want to have to think about what is being said.... I am in AP Literature and Composition and I am still noticing things in both series that I have not noticed before... the reading level is different as is the main purpose to each series... though I do believe they share many of the same purposes.... HP is for adventure.... SM is for romance.... adventure and romance are very different, although they are usually seen together, which makes the books good in their own different ways.... in my opinion... they are both held inhigh esteem just in different sections.... romance and adventure...
I do think that HP has a stronger plot line but at the same time I did enjoy the fact that SM was written in frist person... is does put you inside the narrators head which rounds out their character better...
Although (as I have said before) I love them both equally just on different planes.... I do prefer SM over HP mostly because:
1. I am a love sick teen who needs more romance in my life
2. Faster read
3. More for me to imagine and create/spin off with me involved (don't pretend you don't all do it... even in HP.... hey... I know I do...)
4. Less books... I know... but I can read them more times or other books as well without spending months on end with HP.... (if I could get away with it I would but.... there just doesn't seem to be enough time to read HP justly.... and the only solution to reading HP well is to read it multiple times which because of the large number of books, makes it slightly more diffivult for some one like me...)
5. Easier read... I will admit it... I enjoy SM because it is easier to read and intense brain power that should be saved for the homework that I pretend to do, is not required in SM
When the above list is fulfilled, then I turn back to HP.... (I am actually re-reading them again right now and after I am done... I plan to re-read Twilight as well.... I am ready for some hot steamy fictional romance since as of late it seems to be missing from my life....)
REALLY? Lara...you go to TWILIGHT for hot steamy romance? That is just absurd. If you want hot and steamy read Katie MacAlister's Aisling Grey series(paranormal) or the Dark Ones(if you are really jonesing for vamps).Twilight...steamy. LMAO
I haven't read any of those books: but when Edward says certain things I stop breathing, literally. Besides, I love that there's not such a concentration on sex, which is why I avoid most romance books; it doesn't come down to the same thing again and again. I love Twilight desperatly, or however you spell that word. I find it easier to put myself into HP, though.
Thank you for listing some examples of what you think her weaknesses are, Clara and Autumn. I think you have honestly made me consider some new points of Bella's character. I still think she is selfish sometimes, but I suppose everyone is. @Lara-British people are better at English? What!?! they don't even put periods after "Mrs" and "Mr." drives me crazy :D
Lee... we as Americans are predisposed to speak slurvian (or we slur our words together) because we are lazy... The British just seem to have a better command of the language that we essentialy stole from them...Clara... that is precisely why I also hesitate before I read what others deem "hot and steamy" for my personality and my values... Twilight fits the bill perfectly... you are right... some of the things that Edward said made my heart pound faster and I too stopped breathing for a moment of two....
Vedanti wrote: "Lavanya, are you raelly sure that you do not like one of those books more than the other?"
Positive! I like them both for different reasons. I do love both books. I just feel that Harry Potter was written better - that doesn't mean I like it more than Twilight.
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