Middle East/North African Lit discussion
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Deck Community Chit-Chat (Interesting Random Things)
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Marieke, Former moderator
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Jan 05, 2011 06:46AM
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The Hammam or Turkish bath is the Middle Eastern variant of a steam bath, which can be categorized as a wet relative of the sauna. They had played an important role in cultures of the Middle-East, serving as places of social gathering, ritual cleansing and as architectural structures, institutions, and (later) elements with special customs attached to them. Europeans learned about the Hammam via contacts with Turkey hence the European name for it: "Turkish" hammam
it was an essential part of our heritage traditions , if any one read Granada: A Novel, he will know about Andalus hammams , or The Blood of Flowerswill know about Persian Hammams .
Nowadays ; the left ones I know are in maghreb countries ,the most famous and popular ones are the Moroccan , here is an American lady telling her adventure there :
http://www.gonomad.com/womens/0009/ha...
They are nearly over in Egypt
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/957/f...
I read The Blood of Flowers in the past, and I appreciate seeing this photo....Thank you, Nile Daughter...
We have rather a nice Turkish Bath House in London, which my daughter visits but which I have not yet been brave enough to experience! http://www.courtneys.co.uk/centres/Po...
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For all who celebrate it
I wold like to present Sham el-Nessim in Egypt .
It is interesting to observe (Western) commentators searching for the hows and whys of the ongoing "Arab spring". Recently I came across two articles referring to a mostly-unknown/forgotten work now being promoted as the "first Arab-American" novel.
Century-old Book of Khalid sheds light on Arab unrest
In the Arab revolutions, echoes of a 100-year-old book
The Book of Khalid is available as an e-book from Project Gutenberg.
Personally I'm a bit sceptical. The attempt to make a connection between the novel (which I haven't read) and the current events in the region may be another example of orientalism and/or exceptionalism.
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Recently I came across two articles referring to a mostly-unknown/forgotten wor..."
interesting, Okyrhoe...i've been noticing these things as well but haven't had the brain energy to conjure any meaningful critical thoughts. :D
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Raman will be on Sunday or monday (according to where you live) , I bought my daughter a beatiful "Fanoos" (Ramadhan lantern) and she is very happy about it , here is a link about Ramadan in Egypt .
http://www.ramadhanzone.com/egypt.asp
hope you like it :)
I really miss ramadan in egypt and back home this is my first ramadan in ksa hope it is fun
Great link, Nile daughter!Ramadan in Sinai is SO different from Ramadan in Cairo...I miss the fawanees, the drums, the God's Tables...
Ramadan Kareem, everyone!
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Tell us about Ramadan in KSA Ghada , and you too Bernadette , how is it in Sinai ?
thank you for the link Nile Daughter, from someone who knows only the bare bones of Ramadan. Is there any similarity to Christian/Catholic Lent do you think? Ramadan seems more formalized in the fasting expectations where Lent has limited fasting on 2 days and meatless Fridays. It is suggested that each individual make a personal decision about other acts of self-denial (or penance).
I hope it's OK to put this in here with your discussion of Ramadan.
Thanks for posting the link Nile Daughter. I don't know alot about Ramadan, so it was interesting to read about it in more detail. And . . . I'm hungry after reading the description of all the wonderful food. I wonder if I can find a good Egyptian restaurant here in the Midwest . . . :-)
Ramadan is a very quiet affair here in Sinai. We are lucky that we miss out on all the pre-iftar traffic! People here work right through to sunset if they need to, no one really stops work early but we have a much more laid back schedule here. Bedouin will visit with family for iftar (breakfast) and this is a time when you see more of the women on the street as they walk between homes in our neighborhood. (Usually we don't see many Bedouin women out and about). But in general no festive, late-night gatherings, few decorations. If you didn't know it was Ramadan (as many of the tourists don't), you'd never know by walking through the streets...which is definitely not the case in Cairo.Now, the eid (the feast at the end of Ramadan) is a different story! :-)
It would be so interesting to visit other countries during Ramadan to see how it is observed/celebrated.
To bring this back round to books...do Ramadan celebrations feature in any of the books on our shelf?
For those looking for children's and young adult books about Ramadan and other Islamic holidays, I've compiled a list you can access here:
http://www.bernadettesimpson.com/Chil...
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I am glad you found the link useful , and Sure it is ok to post your comment :) We Muslims believe in general that fasting is not exclusive to us , it is mentioned in Koran that God made it as an obligation for other people before us . So I guess it is normal to find similarity even if each group does it in her own way . the most important issue is the message we get from fasting .
For Christians in particular, I do not know about Catholic , in Egypt; Copts (Christians) are Orthodox in the majority of them ,They have too many fasting days, check this:
Fasting and abstinence of the Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasting_...
BTW , in general Copts are considered religious like Egyptian Muslims are (I guess this is an Egyptian feature since the Pharaohs :D) and the Patriarch of Alexandria is a powerful Egyptian icon .
Wendy ,You are welcome , if you find an Egyptian restaurant , please tell me what you ate ;)
Bernadette ,Thanks :) you know even though I am Egyptian , I know so little about Bedouins , I need to know more about them , I can not think of a novel with Ramadan atmosphere now , but if I reach any I will tell you . but by Eid , I guess you need to tell us more about it in Sinai (hope things will be quitter by then).
Marieke ,yes .... Riverbend wrote interesting blogs about Ramadan and Eid :D waiting for your questions .
thanks to Bernadette for the information re: children's books. I have friends who are children's librarians who may be interested. Nile Daughter--thanks for the information about the Copts. I know of them and that they have a very ancient existence but I really knew little about their practices. I find it amazing that they fast 210 days of the year.
Nile daughter wrote: "Bernadette ,Thanks :) you know even though I am Egyptian , I know so little about Bedouins , I need to know more about them , I can not think of a novel with Ramadan atmosphere now , but if I reach any I will tell you ."It's hard to learn about the Bedouin because there is so little literature (both scholarly and literary) about them. I've read everything I can get my hands on, but still the best way is to spend time with the people.
We have a fascinating festival here in Egypt that is all about Bedouin - a great place to meet and befriend (male) Bedouin (the women typically don't attend unfortunately). I attended last year and hope to attend again this year:
http://www.charactersofegypt.com/
And this past spring, we had our own little "Dahab Bedouin Festival" which we hope we'll be able to host every year...so maybe that one will be easier to get to! ;-)
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Bernadette , Thanks for the info , that is very interesting , I wish we can hear more about "Dahab Bedouin Festival" when the time comes .
For novels , I believe that Miral al-Tahawywrote something , not sure which one .
I read The Sunset Oasis but it is about west desert Bedouins and in the 19th century , worth reading by the way
I must have listened to you before, Nile Daughter. I find I already have Sunset Oasis on my TBR.
The Sunset Oasis does sound interesting! I love stories set in that time period.For poetry and other nonfiction about Bedouin, look at books and journal articles by Joseph Hobbs and Clinton Bailey.
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Lovely links and great information. I am a Turk and this post brings back my childhood memories when I lived in Iran and we actually went to those hammams. From 8 PM to 8 AM men used them and women were allowed to use them from 8 AM to 8 PM. They had these tanks filled with water (very deep and scary to me as a kid) which people entered to rinse off the soap. Fortunately they also had showers alongside those tanks for the rest of us...Most of them were demolished and a few remain for tourists.
Sue wrote: "thanks to Bernadette for the information re: children's books. I have friends who are children's librarians who may be interested. Nile Daughter--thanks for the information about the Copts. I k..."
Sue,
I am Eastern Orthodox (Antiochian), all the Orthodox church fast for long periods. You can check out the sites for the Greek, Russian and Antiochian also. The American churches are still on the Gregorian calendar.
My first Ramadan with my daughter was such a wonderful experience. I had never had fresh dates before-only the store kind, to break fast. They are so yummy and dif. She called tonite to say she was making all their favorite foods! Made me hungry!! :(
Thanks Kit. I'm Roman Catholic. Our fast periods aren't long at all compared to other churches I'm learning about here.Have to say I've never cared much for the dates I've tried but I've never had fresh ones either so who knows i might like them if I had the fresh ones.
This is a great forum for learning.
Sue wrote: "Thanks Kit. I'm Roman Catholic. Our fast periods aren't long at all compared to other churches I'm learning about here.Have to say I've never cared much for the dates I've tried but I've never ..."
Its such a dif taste-like eating fresh fruit vs candied! (if you can imagine that.)
You do know that we were one church until 1054-Pope Leo IX excommunicated the Eastern Rite (Constantinople)-commonly known as the Great Schism. We are more alike than dif.
Oh yes, definitely. I always hoped there would be some sort of unification of churches but it seems we are getting further away from that sort of thing rather than closer. Have to say I have some problems with Rome the same way I have problems with Washington. Man and power don't mix well together. I think women should have much larger leadership roles in both places. Rome will be harder to crack than Washington. Benedict seems to be moving things backward by essentially undoing the changes of Vatican II which were so liberating in the 1960s and 1970s.
Can't believe I've turned this into an ecclesiastical discussion. Must be getting late and I'm tired (and I inherited some of my father's debating genes).
Talk again later.
Sue wrote: "Oh yes, definitely. I always hoped there would be some sort of unification of churches but it seems we are getting further away from that sort of thing rather than closer. Have to say I have so..."
I'm in total agreement on all the above, Pope, Washington and Women. The Orthodox Church is in the "talks" of adding women to the deaconship-since at one time we did have deaconesses. But its still only talk! Luckily, we have a Patriach not a Pope.
Marieke wrote: "Hi everyone, this has nothing to do with books but i thought it was very interesting: a satellite image of a field of volcanic lava in Saudi Arabia."Did you know that Hegra, Saudi Arabia has been named the sister city of Petra-it's awesome? You can find it on the internet under Qasr al-Farid. Its 300 miles south of Petra. It shows the excavations and the structures. It dates back to the 4th century BC up to about the 5th AD. I have the magazine article from "Archaeology Magazine."
Kit wrote: "Marieke wrote: "Hi everyone, this has nothing to do with books but i thought it was very interesting: a satellite image of a field of volcanic lava in Saudi Arabia."Did you know that Hegra, Sau..."
I've always thought that Petra is fascinating. I'll have to check this out.
Sue wrote: "Kit wrote: "Marieke wrote: "Hi everyone, this has nothing to do with books but i thought it was very interesting: a satellite image of a field of volcanic lava in Saudi Arabia."Did you know tha..."
www.archaeology.org/1007/abstracts/he... -
one of the site you can view Qasr al-Farid
www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=... - Cached
another good site. :)
Need some help, please? Does anyone quilt or do needle works of any kind? I would like some patterns or a site I can find patterns. Several years ago one of the quilting magazines had a pattern called "all roads lead to Mecca," (it was a pattern tent makers used that was modified into a quilt pattern). Its the only thing I have been able to find that has a "Middle Eastern" style. Thanks. :D
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Not sure ...Stuff like this?
http://www.squidoo.com/arabic-islamic...
Nile daughter wrote: "Kit wrote: "Need some help, please? Does anyone quilt or do needle works of any kind? I would like some patterns or a site I can find patterns. Several years ago one of the quilting magazines ha..."Wow!!!! :D Thank you! I found a whole cache of treasures. I found a stained glass pattern coloring book-great size for quilt blocks. Couldn't download the Arabic henna patterns-will try later. Thank again.
How does Arabic henna patterns differ from Mehndi Patterns? Are the basically the same or each country have a design the use? I know with belly dancing each country is so specific. Only the Egyptian costumes usually cover the belly so I have know idea how different they are-with the others the design for (around the navel henna) looks pretty much the same.
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Marieke wrote: "ooo...excellent...i knit. when i went to egypt i brought back a book of egyptian motifs that i've planned to use in patterns for throws and pillow cases but i've been a little lazy... :("Maybe we need to start a Middle East arts & crafts thread -- there seem to be a lot of crafty people in our midst :-)
I have a needlepoint I did back in the 70s that is an Eqyptian motif. Currently it's stored away but maybe I should take it out in honor of the group.I used to do needlework but haven't for a long time partly due to arthritic hands. I do have some cross stitch kits I got while on vacation some time ago that I never started. I wonder what my hands would do if I tried them out?
I'm in-the sites above take you to several other sites. I also searched Amazon.com and found some tile patterns that can be modified. Awesome! :D
Here is a site that gives an idea about Palestinian embroidery, we call it Tatreez. I love it soooo much and my mom showed me how to do it but I have to say it needs patience which I do not have. So all the pieces I have are either made by mom or my sis or I buy them from the market. Good luck and I hope u will like it.
Thanks Ghada,I found another cache of treasures.
http://webgaza.net/palestine/Traditio...
www.tatreez.net/cross.htm Most of the sites have pillows and decorative designs.
http://armenianembroidery.tripod.com/ this site has Armenian designs-and church/crosses as well as Palestinian Tatreez patterns. It was great!!
I didn't find any free patterns-but may have over looked those-they all have directions for stitches, etc.
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Kit wrote: "Wow!!!! :D Thank you! I found a whole cache of treasures. I found a stained glass pattern coloring book-great size for quilt blocks. Couldn't download the Arabic henna patterns-will try later. Thank again.
How does Arabic henna patterns differ from Mehndi Patterns? Are the basically the same or each country have a design the use? I know with belly dancing each country is so specific. Only the Egyptian costumes usually cover the belly so I have know idea how different they are-with the others the design for (around the navel henna) looks pretty much the same "
You are welcome :D
Sorry I do not know much about henna patterns ,Hennah is known here since ancient Egypt ,and Egypt remains one of the main commercial suppliers of the plant . but it was used to use henna to color the hair , nails , hands and feet . from anther side henna patterns - in general- are Nubian style - south of Egypt and north of Sudan.
I found this:
"Henna patterns tend to differ from country to country and from different cultures too. Each style is distinct. Arabic henna patterns are usually created from black henna. Asian mehendi designs are typically reddish brown. Arabic henna designs vary from the Indian mehendi patterns in that they are large and floral whereas the Indian designs are floral and paisley. Asian henna patterns tend to be composed of repetitive patterns of lines, leafy tendrils, teardrops and abstract shapes. Arabic henna designs are inspired by Arabic art."
http://www.targetwoman.com/articles/h...
Nile daughter wrote: "that discussion made me smile !Kit wrote: "Wow!!!! :D Thank you! I found a whole cache of treasures. I found a stained glass pattern coloring book-great size for quilt blocks. Couldn't download..."
Thanks- :D
henna patterns... At a Yemeni cultural festival here in Athens in 2008 there were a couple of ladies offering henna sessions. I took some photos with my mobile phone https://picasaweb.google.com/okyrhoe/...
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You are welcome :) BTW , henna patterns is more popular now in Egypt specialy in Weddings .
okyrhoe wrote: "henna patterns...
At a Yemeni cultural festival here in Athens in 2008 there were a couple of ladies offering henna sessions. I took some photos with my mobile phone https://picasaweb.google.com..."
That is nice , thanks :)
I'm very excited -- we are having an Eid celebration at work today. I work for a greeting card company, so holidays are a big deal around here, but this is my first time to have the opportunity to celebrate Eid. I'm looking forward to it!
Wendy wrote: "I'm very excited -- we are having an Eid celebration at work today. I work for a greeting card company, so holidays are a big deal around here, but this is my first time to have the opportunity to..."wow! say do you have any Muslims or Arabs working with you.. They can show you hoe each of them celebrate in his homeland.. It can be fun :D :D
And I must say.. I love the type of work you do :D :D
Just thought I would let you guys know how the Eid celebration went today for me. It was probably more of an intro to Eid for most people. My manager had no idea what Eid was (and I'm guessing she was not alone). They had several tables set up -- 1 table had yummy food available to sample (sorry, but I don't remember the names of all the items). It seemed like it was more Pakistani (like samosas and basmati rice dishes) than what I would consider Mediterranean food. They had displays of clothing like salway kameez, and a prayer rug, and they had a henna tattoo artist there to give you a henna tattoo if you wanted one. NG, to answer your question, yes we do have Muslims here at my office, but I am guessing most are probably Pakistani or maybe Bangledeshi rather than Arab, though I could certainly be wrong about that. I enjoyed talking with one of my co-workers who is of Pakistani diseent but was born in Tanzania. He said he has lived here in the States for 40 years now. He said he does not pray here at work (though he said that if he wanted to that they would make a conference room or something available to him to use). It sounded like he didn't think it would fit well with his work schedule . . . which maybe is an oblique way of saying he wouldn't feel comfortable doing praying here . . . ? He said that he waits till he gets home and prays with his family. I told him that I really loved having the opportunity to learn a little bit about the holiday of Eid and thanked him for sharing this with us here at work, ate some of the fabulous food and picked up some of the flyers they had for us to take that gave information about the holiday of Ramadan and about Islam which I will plan to read through later. I thought it was really sweet that when he saw how much I loved the rice dish that his wife had made for him to bring in and share with us, he offered to make me a plate of food (which I would have loved, but I'm trying to be good on my diet so had to politely decline). So, that was my first Eid experience :-) Those of you who observe this holiday will have to let me know what you think -- and any suggestions of how we might be able to make it better/more authentic next year.
I am really happy u had fun today and enjoyed tge food.From what u said it is as authentic as it could be. Eid is all about getting together with people and have good time. As for the food and traditions it depends on the coubtry's traditions. But we all share the spirit of good will and forgivness. There is one thing that is also common which is the gathering of the extended family. Happy Eid my friend.
Thank you Ghada -- happy Eid to you and your family as well :-)
Middle East/North African Lit
Books mentioned in this topic
Sunset Oasis (other topics)Baghdad Burning: Girl Blog from Iraq (other topics)
The Blood of Flowers (other topics)
Granada (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Clinton Bailey (other topics)Joseph J. Hobbs (other topics)
Miral al-Tahawy (other topics)
