The Magic Mountain
discussion
Worth the effort? Your thoughts on the value of The Magic Mountain.
It took me two years to read in starts and stops. And each time I stopped I had to rewind a bit to come up to speed. In the end, I was glad I persevered. Poor Hans Castorp goes for a two week vacation and winds up spending a great whack of his life on the Mountain. The lengthy descriptions of how the life there was completely centered around one's health, the food, and frantic attempts to distract themselves from thoughts of mortality - it was oddly mesmerizing. The suddenness of the end and Hans' fate shocked me.
I read this in a German class, and really enjoyed it. It can be very dry/slow going (especially in German!!), but the underlying themes and strange images are very interesting. I am not sure I would have enjoyed it as much had I not been guided by an expert, but as it stands, I very much appreciated this book!
Yeah the reader really does get trapped up there on the mountain with the protagonist.Time seems suspended and it's really an endurance race to get through it.
I enjoyed it, but i wouldn't call it a page turner. I finished it out of sheer willpower, and I wonder whether or not that was what Mann intended.
I hate to sound barbaric, but I was never so glad as when Naphta killed himself. FINALLY. It was chapters and chapters (and chapters!) overdue. And it wasn't so much because of his nihilism and arrogance, or even because of the self-loathing of his Jewish origins, latent homosexuality, and almost total lack of physical presence . . . but because Mann had Naphta bray on endlessly, page after page, in an obvious smokescreen intended to hide the aforementioned self-loathing. Hans Castorp is a pathetic, smarmy, ingratiating, lazy life drop-out, but at least he grows a little toward the end of the book -- even though he hides that growth from the person who cares about him most (Settembrini).This book is undoubtedly important, but is it actually good? I finally finished it (in just over five weeks), and I'm much gladder that I'm done than I am that I actually read the damn thing.
Magic Mountain addressed in so many ways what happened, especially in Europe, after the Great War. Nothing in life was ever the same. I wouldn't consider any character to be a person really as much as I would like to say they represent some idea, culture, or group of people. This hit me the most after Joachim's reappearance and Naphta' suicide. THere is so much that begs discussion about this book. It was a brilliant piece of work, epecially the way the Mann is able to express the mood in pre-war Europe and the great shock of the war (the suicide of Naphta). Nothing was what it was thought to be, the world had changed while these patients mused away on their mountain. The heartbreaking way Castorp's promise and potential is taken. This was a hard book to get through because it was so dense and detailed but coming out on the other side was well worth it.
I'm considering reading this. I loved Death in Venice did any of you read this?
"A Death in Venice" is what made me crave anything Mann. I started with it because the premise seemed intriguing and controversial. The book left me with a spinning brain...I mean that in a very good way. What is morality? What is art? What is love? What is honor? These are the types of questions you will ask yourself. I interpreted Aschenbach as Venice...but I would not say more about that if you haven't read it. Reading "The Magic Mountain" after "A Death in Venice" actually gave me a lot more clarity about who Mann is as an author and what he is trying to say, because "A Death in Venice" wouldn't leave me alone after I finished it. It was genius.
I think it took me about 3 months to finish The Magic Mountain. I started one night when I had terrible insomnia and I just went and grabbed a random book off the shelf - an old, early translation (Lowe-Porter). After about 100 pages, the book was falling apart, so I went to the library and got a newer edition with the Woods translation, which was much more modern. It really was a slog - a monumental effort of will - to finish. There were days when I read nothing, and days when I read 5 pages and it felt like a victory. But throughout it, I was impressed by Mann's writing and his humor. Some passages were extremely funny.Around Joachim's death, the book started to affect me more, and like someone said above, the end was rather shocking and kind of horrible, but in a meaningful, emotional way. I can't imagine I'll ever re-read it; it was just too much work. But I do want to read Buddenbrooks now.
I really tried with this book, but just could not relate. Perhaps I'm too much of an optimist in life. Mann just goes on and on and on and on... I gave up about halfway through. But, reading the comments in this section, perhaps I'll give it another shot.
Its a book which successfully creates a whole new world, complete in itself. On the downside On the downside, the characters in the novel are incredibly verbose. When they speak, they ramble on for pages, and I found myself picturing the other people in the conversations standing politely waiting for the speaker to finish before they launch off into their own equally dense replies. However, this is all part of Mann’s creation of timelessness - if anyone wants to read this book in a hurry they're going to miss the point.
Castorp - Don't forget to read Pawel Huelle's "Castorp" a cleverly written prequel to the Magic Mountain
One of the most marvelous books ever written. I sort of read it all the time. The characters are wonderful (Clawdia Chauchat...), the setting magical, and well - we don't need to praise the author's writing style! Thomas Mann's ideal "Magic Mountain" reader was a person who - when finished with the book, would start reading it again. And that's (with intervals) what I do. It's also exactly what Mann's great American friend and sponsor, Agnes E. Meyer did who absolutely adored the book.
I read this book when I was in college. I found it mesmerizing--the altitude, the characters, the fact that it took place in a sanitarium. It was the first book I ever called "favorite," and it raised the bar on subsequent choices.
This was the first Mann I read and I loved it. Went from there to Buddenbrooks and loved that too. Now Doctor Faustus was a challenge - eventually I got into that one as well but Magic Mountain has a special place in my heart.
I read this (in German)a long time ago when I still lived in Germany and liked it even though it did take me a while to finish it. While a lot of the characters are quite memorable, I think what I liked most about the book was Mann's writing style and how the narrative was composed/set-up. I found Castorp's self-preoccupation intriguing.
One thing I find in common about the comments I have read about Mann's "Magic Mountain" concerns time. The book is long and plodding. It reminded me of a comment I once read when a prisoner describes the passage of time in prison as meaningless. Time simply unfolds one day into the next, time gets lost, dates or seasons can easily drift by. I wonder if Mann attempted to utilize this technique that perhaps he himself must have experienced and noticed. What sometimes makes this book more difficult is the odd out of sync sense of time...where what becomes important to characters or people in such a time suspended environment comes to the forefront. Days in which the characters are at the mercy of the routine or what happens to them...or the occasional break of the expected, like death.
Time is obviously a big topic in Mann's "Magic Mountain". He was influenced by Bergson's concept of time, and thematizes it a various key points in the novel. In fact, even Hans Castorp's initial journey is vividly described in fluid time sequences. (Note especially the abruptness of his arrival!)So you could say time is really the secret topic of the "Magic Mountain". Obviously a very modern ("timely") topic. Think of Ulysses, The Man Without Qualities, or any novel by Virginia Woolf who all also focus on time and its subjectiveness and relativity. /ma
I re-read this every few years. Buddenbrooks is the only other Mann I really like. When Hans is on the train and then arrives at the sanatorium I rub my hands in anticipation of a great (intellectual) adventure. And then when Hans has met everyone and acquired great wisdom he goes down the mountain, goes to war, and all that wisdom is lost. So it's time to read the book again.
Charles wrote: "I re-read this every few years. Buddenbrooks is the only other Mann I really like. When Hans is on the train and then arrives at the sanatorium I rub my hands in anticipation of a great (intellectu..."Charles - my thoughts entirely!
MM is a marvelous novel for a lot of reasons, just one of which I'll cite here because it was, for me, the least expected -- it's very, very funny.
I do believe that Mr. Mann has tried to play a trick on us.
It is not an easy book. Throughout these approximately 800 pages there are dozens - maybe hundreds - of deep, intelectual debates about religion, humanity, women, and basically every aspect of life that you can talk about that get you drawn into the book as strongly as you would be if you thought you were buying a collection of interesting conversations to get you thinking. What's really interesting about Magic Mountain is that it would be a great book if it was only that - a collection of interesting and intelectually stimulating debates, but there is a lot more about the book that makes it so wonderful. Thomas Mann wrote about what is, in the opinion of a young and curious reader, the most interesting writing subject in the magically vast writing universe. He wrote about time and its subjectivity. About the way life passes by in front of our eyes and how we, simple humans trying to make our way towards happiness, just stand inevitably still while it does. As much as we learn, as much as we love, as much as we teach, the end will be the end just like for everyone else.Throughout the book I fell in love with Castorp - I fell in love with his simplicity, his curiousity and his uncontrolable passion for Madame Chauchat. But not only did Castorp made me fall in love with him, but the entire atmosphere Mann created did. It truly is a magical mountain. Time truly is a magical being, if you could say so. Truly a magical book that will stay within me for life.
Edmond, Pedro - I love your comments, they both hit the spot exactly!
Edmond, Pedro - I love your comments, they both hit the spot exactly!
Thanks, Michel. I'd like to give him another chance. Are the books really that different? I'm not going in again unprepared!
My official position is that this is a novel of ideas and if the reader is not interested in the ideas Mann is exploring this is going to be a drag. Personally I didn't care much for the philosophical discussions. They were sweeping generalizations that were very schematic and seemed very dated. At some point I just started skimming on these discussions. Having said that, I do have to say that I was in awe of Mann as a narrator. I felt that he could do whatever he pleased. Some sections -the pencil episode, the dance, the seance-- are absolutely brilliant.Astonishing. So for me it was a very mixed bag.
I was amazed by the book but having read it almost a half century ago, it would be difficult for me to recall. I´ve enjoyed many of his books and am somewhat surprised that Death in Venice to be the one studied in schools. I particularly enjoyed TRANSPOSED HEADS and Oedipal story.
OH yes, I believe it was the HOLY SINNER.
Michel wrote: "Yes, The Magic Mountain is plodding and I never could finish it. Mann was best as a young writer, before he became too self-conscious. Buddenbrooks is THE masterpiece, written in his rwenties. It i..."I actually found The Magic Mountain sparkling, in the Woods translation - now the original Lowe-Porter translation is plodding indeed.
Death in Venice is such a short book compared and relatively easy to read. It is difficult ploughing through the Mountain and it seems a completely different read to Death in Venice, but it is stimulating if you persevere. I read it aeons ago and am glad I did!
Michael wrote: "I actually found The Magic Mountain sparkling, in the Woods translation - now the original Lowe-Porter translation is plodding indeed. "I'll agree. The Lowe-Porter has its antique charms, but is much harder to get through than the Woods. Which is saying something because the Woods is hard to get through too. (Not because of the translation, merely because of the density of the text.)
Edmond wrote: "MM is a marvelous novel for a lot of reasons, just one of which I'll cite here because it was, for me, the least expected -- it's very, very funny."Yes, it is. Even something like the way Hans is so irritated by doors being slammed: very funny!
"I'll agree. The Lowe-Porter has its antique charms, but is much harder to get through than the Woods. Which is saying something because the Woods is hard to get through too. (Not because of the translation, merely because of the density of the text.)"Yes - I also suspect - without details to hand - that Lowe-Porter may have dispensed with anything too dense in the original in his version. Woods though, was a revelation - he moved Mann up from a writer in the company of Hesse to one closer to Musil in my perception (and that's with no criticism of Hesse).
I have always been attracted by this book. Everytime I stepped into a bookstore I wanted to buy it. I bought it last Christmas and I found it really really plodding. I really hoped there was more in there and after the first disappointment I hoped in a supernatural-Bulgakovian-twist, but nothing. Maybe I was expecting something completely different... Great and long talkings never bother me when they transmit something, but here I found all those talkings a mere stylistic or rethorical excercise. It was all a little empty for me.
It is really not an easy book, but decided I should read it - why not. I read it in German, have been living in Switzerland for 45 years and these places really did exist. Those that could afford it and suffered stayed in such sanatoriums. Of course the storyline was made up, but who knows what went on behind closed doors. I thought it was quite an amusing story, but must admit a reread would help me more to understand it.
In my opinion, this novel might be interesting for historians. The construction of this huge and vast history of the decline of the 19 siecle, and the start of the 20 siecle, lacks freshness. This is a novel where its characters are meant to mean something, are designed to mean some specific idea. I may keep Claudia Chauchat aside from that crowd, and that might not be right.
I loved The Magic Mountain. I read it a few pages a night and felt that I journeyed with Hans Castorp to that strange place of healing on the mountain. It grew in part out of Mann's sense of the madness of war, but that truth remains as much with us as ever. I also every much enjoyed Death in Venice and stories such as Tonio Kroger. Looking back at these after many years, I see Mann's deep understanding of life, human nature, and the perilous journey on which we each inevitably embark.
I've read Mann's The Magic Mountain close to fifteen times over the years and have always loved it. I put it away for now because I've read an enormous amount about his life and finally became too troubled by his (Mann's) self hatred and confusion. However, if he were not the person he was, how could he have created a world so easy for many of us to live in uneasy as the living may be. I only wish the world in 2013 did not turn its back so firmly on language in favor of reductionism in every form.I know I'll return to the mountain again once I get over my little estrangement. Extraordinary work.
I found Mann's depiction of the climate and landscape almost mesmerizing. I loved the mealtime socialization! But, I dozed through the interminable debates. But the Mann's landscape observations and his character's attempts to be healthy in that Swiss mountain landscape attracted me.If any of you find a similar attraction, try Algernon Blackwood's, The Initiation.
Its long been regarded as the single best European novel of the Twentieth Century. I am aware of no reason to stop considering it as such. The richly competitive time-and-place which saw its advent--the field onto which it emerged, and the critical reputation it has sustained while the format of the novel itself has peaked and waned--essentially makes it one of the top novels western civilization has ever or will ever produce. As our modern world becomes ever more berserk and out-of-control; its value--if anything--grows, in my eyes.
I loved to have read this book. It tooked me quit a long time to read it, not because I didn't like it but it's realy a powerfull and big book. Sometimes in my daily life, I find myself re-reading it in my mind.
Hi Ana,Wouldn't now, in America, be the perfect time to write something like this? Maybe it would take place in a rehab. I don't write this to be funny, not at all, but simply because of the endless rehab stories and the utter madness gripping the world.
Markdine
Well, I can't find either of my editions, the old one (with Clavdia & Hans' love scene in French) or the new (it's in English there). But there's a place where Mann (via little Naptha) makes a truly chilling prediction. Naptha is predicting the future of their New Century. In a word, he says: "Terrorism." Someone with a copy they can find help me on this.
Its always going to be relevant.
Naptha, from the start, is presented as too twisted by religiosity and an abused childhood to serve as a reliable voice in any part of the narration. Mann presents Herr Settembrini as the more reliable voice. In their discussions of madness and terror and disease, Mann places far more emphasis on Settembrini's discussions of political madness to come, and it is in his long (and also confused) portrait of a world gone mad that Settembrini directly addresses your question. Caution: Mann makes clear that in the Naptha-Settembrini wars of words, that neither character or those overhearing the pots boil over, become anything other than more confused about the issues that spout from the "philosophers." Considering that Mann himself, according to his biographers and the works of his children, was filled with confusion and self-hatred, all predictions of the future were to be found in the terrors of his own mind. Despite all: Settembrini and Mynheer Peeperkorn are your keys.MarkDine
Well, you've got a point; I loved Mynheer Peeperkorn from the first line I read about him!
Mynheer Peeperkorn was based on a fellow German writer whom Mann knew. (Nearly everyone Mann knew ended up in his fiction in some form.) Apparently he immediately recognized the portrait of himself.
It was a slog, but I'm glad I read it. I read it in my 20s during my phase of world classics, along with Moby Dick, The Aeneid and The Odyssey (translations by Alexander Pope), and Shakespeare (some selected plays).
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I don't think I will ever do that but this book does have a lot of appeal once I got used to it, and I wonder if other readers felt the same way?