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Brigid *Flying Kick-a-pow!* wrote: "They are both glorified penises."HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Lav [and I still count the minutes] wrote: "I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts on the Westboro Baptist Church are. (The church in Topeka that protests against gay people and all that.) ..."I think it's wrong to offend people.
But I believe in freedom of speech.
What about all of the offensive things said about religion? People attack my religion as a Mormon and call us absolutely heinous things. They offend us. But do people freak out at them because of it? No. I don't think any group of people, despite race, religion, sexuality, etc, is going to be free of people attacking them for something. Sure, it shouldn't happen, but it does, and it's something we all have to deal with.
I love gay people. I know many and I love them all individually. I'm not saying no gay people are horrible, because there are just bad people in every group of people and I've come to realize that over time. So I refuse to sum every homosexual up and say they're all great because that's just not true. I have nothing against them unless they start messing with my life. But just because they're being attacked like many, many other groups of people are being attacked it doesn't make them "special" or anything. Honestly, the whole gay thing is driving me nuts lately. I LOVE gay people, and I defend them, even against my friends. But they shouldn't be so sensitive. You have to grow thick skin. You have to deal with life.
Again, I'm not saying it's right, nor am I condoning bullying or anything in high schools. I'm just saying that homosexuals shouldn't be so offended. Just the same way races shouldn't be offended by stuff that happened hundreds of years ago to their ancestors, or a slip of the tongue that could somehow be taken as racist even if it wasn't intended that way, and all that junk. Some things just shouldn't be said or done. But in a free country you have to deal with being made fun of. It's a matter of free speech. I'd rather have free speech and deal with idiots who say offensive things then have to deal with censorship and not be able to say anything I want to say.
And like I said I'm not condoning bullying. I'm against it. It's just that people shouldn't be censored in a free country. It's not right.
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I agree with Brigid, to some extent. I think if people would ignore them it'd die down a little, but they're all kind of brainwashed and crazy so that might not matter to them.
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Okaaaay, my wonderfully and probably misguided opinion. If I like, totally read what you said wrong then....well yeah, don't be surprised if I totally read what you said wrong. But anyway, it's not about dealing with life, it's about promoting equality and equal opportunity between everybody. If you just sit there, ignore the constant insults thrown at you and just take it, progress won't be made. The discrimination will just keep on going and growing and being perceived as okay when it clearly ISN'T okay because people's lives are being screwed over and constantly bombarded by hate because of a single factor. Yes, it's a free country (well, we call it free at least), and yes free speech is the greatest thing we have. People should have the right to say whatever they want, no matter how hateful. But that is no reason why we shouldn't try to stop hate speech, not by censorship but by never letting others get away with perpetuating discrimination and fighting for our rights, which SHOULD be equal.
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This.
I love this.
Thank you.
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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Care to explain? I know you said you wanted to keep your mouth shut––but if that's the case, I don't understand why you brought it up in the first place.
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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There's no doubt that everyone gets attacked for their beliefs, one way or another. And you're right; not all gay people are good people. But if we're going with your example, not all Mormons are good people, either. There are good and bad people in every group, really. So no one is made "special" by abuse, and the goal of defending gay people is not to defend individuals but to defend gay rights if that makes sense––it's not about protecting everyone who is gay, but rather giving everyone in the country a right to express their sexuality without being abused for it. It's not about whether or not they're all good people or not.
And yes, when you're abused a lot you do have to grow a thick skin. But that doesn't mean we should just say, "You have to deal with it" and leave it at that. We should stand up for people when they're being wronged, because it can get to the point that bullying and/or hate speech are causing individuals to harm themselves. I understand what you mean; to a certain extent, we all have to learn to ignore abusive speech. But I'm guessing that, in your case––for example––if someone was mocking your religion, you would like someone else to back you up and stand up for you, rather than to tell you to deal with it by yourself. You know what I mean? It's just more helpful to have support.
I do agree that freedom of speech is important, and it's wrong to stop people from saying what they want to say. But we should still stand up against them. With people like the members of Westboro Baptist Church, it's trickier because they actually desire the attention. But in most cases, it would be best to stand up if you saw some kind of hate speech happening.
Also, like Lav pointed out, Westboro Baptist Church doesn't only protest gay rights. They also protest at the funerals of war veterans, politicians, etc. which of course is disturbing to the already grieving people at the funerals.
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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I agree with Brigid, to some extent. I ..."
Actually, it does matter quite a bit, since they depend heavily on people suing them or trying to abuse them. They go as far as they can with hate speech without actually breaking any laws––so they know if someone attacks them or sues them, they're still going to get money out of it since they weren't doing anything illegal. They might not even believe everything they're saying, because it's really all one big evil money-making scheme.
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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Yes, well said. All people are abused to some extent, but that doesn't mean their rights are being taken away. Like I said, we're trying to stand up for rights and not just for individual people.
Jayda wrote: "I love gay people. I know many and I love them all individually. I'm not saying no gay people are horrible, because there are just bad people in every group of people and I've come to realize that over time. So I refuse to sum every homosexual up and say they're all great because that's just not true. I have nothing against them unless they start messing with my life. But just because they're being attacked like many, many other groups of people are being attacked it doesn't make them "special" or anything. Honestly, the whole gay thing is driving me nuts lately. I LOVE gay people, and I defend them, even against my friends. But they shouldn't be so sensitive. You have to grow thick skin. You have to deal with life.Again, I'm not saying it's right, nor am I condoning bullying or anything in high schools. I'm just saying that homosexuals shouldn't be so offended. Just the same way races shouldn't be offended by stuff that happened hundreds of years ago to their ancestors, or a slip of the tongue that could somehow be taken as racist even if it wasn't intended that way, and all that junk. Some things just shouldn't be said or done. But in a free country you have to deal with being made fun of. It's a matter of free speech. I'd rather have free speech and deal with idiots who say offensive things then have to deal with censorship and not be able to say anything I want to say."
^Bingo, that's sort of how I feel.
Maybe not.
About the whole gay thing (getting off topic here) is that when people ask me what I think I say that according to my denomination and my family is that homosexuality is wrong.
And then when I say that people start making fun of my religion and calling me names.
Nobody will listen to me when I say how I feel about gay people themselves. I have said many times that I love gay people, I just don't agree with their beliefs, but everybody will try to make it sound like I'm the bad guy.
So I'm going to say this one more time:
As a Christian, I am NOT supposed to hate people. I'm supposed to hate the sin, love the person. But people get this misconception that Christians are all homophobic and wish that all gay people would die or something. No, that's not what I'm saying at all.
I know that this analogy isn't as nearly as severe as this debate, but I sort of compare it to favorite types of ice cream. Your favorite might be chocolate while your best friend's might be vanilla. But just because you don't share the same favorites doesn't mean that you still can't love each other.
What I've been trying to say a numerous amount of times is that I don't hate gay people. I just don't agree with their beliefs. Just like I don't hate Democrats because they aren't Republican. Just like I don't hate atheists because they aren't Christian.
I just wish that people would understand that. When I say I don't support gay rights, they start harassing me and what I believe in. I don't harass gay people, and if I ever have I did not mean to.
It's very annoying when I try to tell people my opinion because no matter what people call me names, tell me how my parents should go to hell for raising me wrong, and how unthinkably rude and ignorant I am. And after all that, some of them claim they are Christians too and try to teach the freaking Bible to me.
I'm sorry, but there is one verse that says "A man should not sleep with another man". But what I'm not going to do is force the Bible onto other people. If you think it's just a bunch of bull and isn't real, well so be it. I just wish people would stop trying to change my opinions when I'm not trying to change their's and telling me how stupid I am and changing my words around.
And that is why the whole gay rights thing drives me crazy. If we're going to debate, let me get my word in without people criticizing it. I try to be as nice as possible. Sometimes I just want to say, "You're an idiot, alright? You're an idiot for believing that I'm going to respect you when you don't give a crap about how I feel."
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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Kind of irrelevant to the debate at hand, since it wasn't strictly about homosexuality and gay rights, but oh well.
I'm very sorry that people are mean to you because of your beliefs. You shouldn't be harassed for your personal opinions, and it's unfair of people to tell you that you've been raised wrong or that you're an idiot. Personally, I do care about what you feel and I'm sorry people can be cruel to you. Just want to say that before I point out the flaws in your argument, because I don't want to seem like I'm trying to offend you or insult your religion. I have nothing against you being religious, and I understand you are set in your beliefs. So be it.
First off, I just want to point out that calling homophobes names is not as bad as what so many of them have done to gay people. I'm not saying it's right, because it's still wrong to insult someone because of their beliefs. However, I've never heard a story about someone being killed for being homophobic. I haven't heard of anyone being chained to a fence with barbed wire and left to bleed to death, for speaking out against homosexuality. I have, however, heard numerous stories about people doing such things to gay people when they were unprovoked besides the fact that their victims were gay. So really, I don't think it's fair to act like homophobic people are the victims here.
I know that this analogy isn't as nearly as severe as this debate, but I sort of compare it to favorite types of ice cream. Your favorite might be chocolate while your best friend's might be vanilla. But just because you don't share the same favorites doesn't mean that you still can't love each other.
I find this to be a rather weak analogy ... since I'm guessing, you don't believe it's a sin for your friend to disagree with you or to like something you don't like. Yet, you think it's a sin for someone to have a different sexual orientation than you.
I'm sorry, but there is one verse that says "A man should not sleep with another man".
There's another verse that says women should be stoned if they have sex before they get married, yet people don't seem so fixated on carrying out that particular rule. I just don't understand why Christians can pick and choose which verses of the Bible are seemingly more important than others, and yet use the argument that the Bible is completely right and true.
If you think it's just a bunch of bull and isn't real, well so be it. I just wish people would stop trying to change my opinions when I'm not trying to change their's and telling me how stupid I am and changing my words around.
I don't believe the Bible is "bull"––that is, it does contain real historial events and people. And it does have many good values in it––like, you know, "Don't kill people"––but some of the values are, in my opinion ... well, not so good.
I don't think you're stupid and I'm not trying to change your opinion, but you can't act like you're the only one who's been harassed for what you believe. As much as you suffer hatred, gay people and their allies suffer just as much if not more. I'm not even gay, and I've been told many times that my support of gay marriage is disgusting and wrong, and that I'm going to hell and whatnot. It happens to everyone.
If we're going to debate, let me get my word in without people criticizing it.
Well um, that's not really how a debate works. Just sayin'. ;)
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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Haha, I like that. XD
Brigid *Flying Kick-a-pow!* wrote: "Emily [Phasers set on stun.] wrote: "Jayda wrote: "I love gay people. I know many and I love them all individually. I'm not saying no gay people are horrible, because there are just bad people in e..."1. I'm not saying that it's awful being on the anti-homosexuality side. Honestly, I had never heard those stories before but I knew that they could be treated pretty badly. I wasn't trying to act like a victim.
2. In my views, homosexuality is a sin. But what I'm really try to say is that people like to think that Christians refuse to be friends with gay people because it's a huge deal. Um, it's just be friends. I'm not really sure how to say it. I'm just trying to say that Christians actually like gay people because they're still people. At least the Christians who try to be Christian-ly.
3. I know it seems like that because there are so many messed up Christians everywhere. But if we were have to be having a debate over whether or not have sex before marriage is okay, I would be saying no because that's what the Bible says. It probably sounds like I'm making this up because you brought it up, but I would honestly be against it.
4. Again, I'm trying not to be the victim here. Sorry if I sound like it.
5. But I thought you sure weren't allowed to call people "b****" and "a**h***" and stuff.
Holden wrote: "Okay, here's my two cents about Emily's point. Yes, bullying a an anti-gay person is not okay on some level: it's bullying. Bullying is never okay. However, anti-gay people CHOOSE to be anti-gay..."
You guys are going to hate me for saying this, but I honestly don't believe people are born gay. It's just my opinion. I have a hard time grasping this theory. I don't want to voice any personal theories in fear of offending anybody, but I just don't think you can be born gay. I'll only elaborate if you ask.
The only problem with the senator's quote is that God lets people be whatever they want. Which ties back into my belief that people aren't born gay.
Then you brought up the thing about how gays can't burn in hell because they're so nice, which made me think. Another thing I hate about the whole argument is how people criticize God. You didn't do that, Holden, I'm just thinking. They're always saying how God should work, and it makes me angry. I learned that to go to heaven, you have to have Jesus as your Savior. If I knew how God worked, I could be preaching to you right now, but the thing is is that no human is God. I learned it the way I was taught. If God has another way too, well then that's the way it works. So if there's a gay Christian, per say, or even just a nice gay person in general, I don't know what'll happen to them. I have never once said they were going to burn in hell. The only times I ever mention Christianity in debates is when I explain that my religion tells me that homosexuality is wrong.
And that is another way people twist my words around. They always think that I'm telling gay people to burn in hell when I'm not.
And by the way guys, you're not offensive.
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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Well, you did seem to stress the point that people are rude to you for your beliefs and that you're suffering because of it. And you didn't acknowledge that people on the opposite side usually suffer worse abuse than you do. I'm just saying, I've never heard of a raging mob of gay people brutally murdering a homophobic person; but I've heard countless stories about the opposite happening.
2. In my views, homosexuality is a sin. But what I'm really try to say is that people like to think that Christians refuse to be friends with gay people because it's a huge deal. Um, it's just be friends. I'm not really sure how to say it. I'm just trying to say that Christians actually like gay people because they're still people. At least the Christians who try to be Christian-ly.
I understand the point you're getting at, and that you're still friends with people who are gay. What I don't understand is why one simple preference is acceptable while the other is considered "sinful."
3. I know it seems like that because there are so many messed up Christians everywhere. But if we were have to be having a debate over whether or not have sex before marriage is okay, I would be saying no because that's what the Bible says. It probably sounds like I'm making this up because you brought it up, but I would honestly be against it.
Okay, but that wasn't the point at all. What I'm saying is, the Bible commands that we punish people for some rather ridiculous things. And Christians don't follow those rules, yet they're so insistent on that one little anti-gay piece being so important.
4. Again, I'm trying not to be the victim here. Sorry if I sound like it.
You may not be trying to sound like a victim, but I think you do. You have a right to complain about people harassing you, but you have to acknowledge that everybody goes through the same thing no matter what views they have.
5. But I thought you sure weren't allowed to call people "b****" and "a**h***" and stuff.
What do you mean? Are you saying that's what people call you? Well no, that's not good debating. That would be an ad hominem attack––meaning, criticizing the person rather than the argument. And that is wrong. But what you said was that you want to state your opinion without it being criticized, and I'm saying that's not debating.
Brigid *Flying Kick-a-pow!* wrote: "1. I'm not saying that it's awful being on the anti-homosexuality side. Honestly, I had never heard those stories before but I knew that they could be treated pretty badly. I wasn't trying to act l..."2. That's just how I read it in the Bible.
3. It's sort of hard to explain because I'm not a scholar. There are some practices of the Bible that didn't apply anymore after Jesus came, but the basic morals are still around. It's just harder to see it because Christians keep slacking.
5. I mean that's what people are calling me.
Brigid *Flying Kick-a-pow!* wrote: "Jayda wrote: "Lav [and I still count the minutes] wrote: "I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts on the Westboro Baptist Church are. (The church ..."Yeah, I know what you mean. And like I said, I'm not condoning what they're saying or doing, or bullying. I'm just saying that it's a free country, and if people want to say "screw ______" then they have to right to sound retarded.
I find it different if a group of people is attacking another group of people, compared to if a group of people is attacking an individual, and in person. If they were going up to gay people, or gay couples, and attacking them and telling them to die, or to kill themselves, or threatening them then yes, I would be completely appalled. I don't know if they've done that, because I haven't actually heard of this church, but if they have then that's ridiculous and horrible and they should deal with the consequences that comes with such actions - and the same with any other people they do that to.
All I'm really saying is that I don't understand why homosexuals seem to get preferential defense on their part, if that even makes sense? It seems like almost EVERYONE except Christians are instantly defended, and people take offense to anything nowadays. We need to stop being so sensitive as people and stop taking things out of context. Don't get me wrong - it's rude and horrible to say such things about any group of people, and I'm not saying that we've taken what this church is saying out of context. But I'm just talking about in general. Sure, I take offense if someone calls someone else a fag because it's a gay slur. But I've had to kind of train myself to not get so mad about people saying "That's so gay" because I shouldn't be so sensitive. I love gay people and I defend them. But at the same time, why do they get so easily offended?
I'm all for equality. I do think homosexuality is a sin, but I don't hate homosexuals, nor do I condemn them. I just completely disagree with their lifestyle. I have family members and close friends who are gay. What they do is their decision, and if there is a God and it is a sin in the end then they'll have to deal with the consequences, you know? I need to worry more about getting over my own sinful nature rather than worry about what other people do when it doesn't harm me. I don't think they can choose the attraction. I only think they can choose whether or not to act upon it.
Oh, but I also know not all Mormons are good people haha. I said that in my post, I thought. There are bad people in every group. I know a few horrible Mormons, and I know of a few horrible gay people, etc. When people get offended when I say that some gay people are horrible that's when I get annoyed. There are horrible black people, horrible gay people, horrible straight people, horrible white people, etc. It doesn't matter what race, sexuality, or belief system - there will always be bad people in those groups.
I'm not really saying ignore what they're saying. I'm just saying we should stop being as easily offended. I laugh at the things people say about Mormons. Yes, sometimes things that they say irk me, but for the most part I turn the other cheek and take it because I know that they're wrong and that's that. It's possible to not be continuously offended when people are continuously offending you. I know from experience. You grow thick skin once you realize that what they're saying is a bunch of crap in your eyes. You stand up for yourself and take the right course of action if it's an individual or group attacking an individual, but if it's a group attacking a group it's something that people just need to get over.
People protest and attack my church ALLLLLL the time at our Temple square in Utah, a place that we consider sacred and holy. Do we get offended? No. Some of us do, but most of us try to be charitable towards those people. Honestly, we pity them, because they have no idea what they're talking about and protesting against. They're scared of what they don't understand, and that's how that church is when they're protesting against homosexuals and every other group or organization.
I don't know. Maybe I'm a little wrong in my thinking. I just feel like a lot of this is a little over the top. If they're attacking individuals then that's awful and action should be taken against them. But if all they're doing is speaking out to the general public, or to all homosexuals in general, then I don't find it that big of a deal. Worse happens every day.
Changing topic:Should iPads be allowed in schools for learning utensils?
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Should iPads be allowed in schools for learning utensils?"
Definitely.
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I'm a Christian and my church doesn't tend to support homosexuality, but lately I've been having trouble seeing why being gay is considered a sin. It's something that's very confusing to me and I'm trying to get it all straight in my head. Ugh. I believe in God and everything but... I honestly don't understand why someone would go to hell for liking someone of the same gender. How is it hurting anyone? And why on Earth isn't it right?
Does someone who is a Christian want to try and explain to me why it's not right? I've read a ton of arguments on why it's fine but I haven't seen a good, convincing argument on why it's not.
Lav [do I end up happy?] wrote: "Oh, and about the gay thing and Christians and all that. I'm a Christian and my church doesn't tend to support homosexuality, but lately I've been having trouble seeing why being gay is considere..."
Do you want some Bible verses that tell you that it's wrong? Cause I know of at least 2.
Anyway, my religion's perspective on why it's a sin should make sense to most other Christians who think it's a sin. God created us, males and females, genetically like we are so we can bring His children to this earth so that they could receive bodies and go through life. Sex is a sacred thing - meant to bond a husband and wife and to create life. It's power over life, in a sense. So, any sexual relations outside of marriage is a sin. In the Bible (though I'm sure you know, I'm just saying some of this for other people who read this) sex is called fornication. In the Bible, it tells us not to fornicate. Sex is sacred.
The act of homosexuality and having sexual relationships before marriage (for anyone, no matter gender) is a mockery of that power that God gave us over life. God has commanded men and women to bear children, to bring up their children in righteousness, and to teach them His principles.
Does that make sense? I'm exhausted so I feel a little scatter brained right now.
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Yeah. Thanks, Jayda.
This is really helpful. I'm still not sure what I think, but this provides a well thought out counter argument to the other opinions I've seen.
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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And this is why I lean towards the side of why the heck would being gay be a sin? >.<
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That's a good belief system.
Brigid *Flying Kick-a-pow!* wrote: "Hmm. I understand that biologically, people are male and female so that children can be produced. But I don't really see why sex outside of marriage is considered a "sin." Like, I see why people co..."Some of it has to do with faith. You have to have faith that you'll be blessed for obeying what's in the Bible and is commandment. Not everyone believes in the Bible, and will do whatever they want, which is totally their choice and up to them. But they must realize that if there is a God, and sex before marriage, or acting upon homosexuality is a sin, then they will have to deal with the consequences. My religion doesn't really believe in the typical "hell", per se... that's a little more complicated to explain, but if you want me to I will. Anyway, I don't think that homosexuals will go to "hell". They just won't be perfectly happy. They'll have to exist for all eternity knowing their mistakes and having to deal with justice, just as many others will have to do as well.
Anyway, the reason sex before marriage for anyone is a sin is because it's sooo sacred. The act of sex is as close to being God in this life is possible. It's the creating of life, basically. Not that you will always create life, nor will you have sex to purely create life. But God gave us the ability to reproduce and asked us to realize how sacred it truly is, and to be reverent of that fact. When a man and a woman have sex before marriage, regardless of the amount of protection they take, if they become pregnant then they just messed with the responsibility that God gave us and made a mockery of the power He gave us over life and death. If you abort the child, you are harming that baby.
Now, this is all from a religious perspective - I don't know how you all feel about abortion, though I have a feeling that it's more on the liberal side - so I know that you guys won't necessarily agree, but see it from the religious perspective. We believe that all human beings have heavenly spirits and that we are children of a Heavenly Father, who sent us here to get bodies, to be tested, to progress, and to prove to Him that we will obey Him in all things. When you become pregnant, a spirit baby is growing inside of you. One of God's children is inside of you, and if you abort that child you don't give them the chance to grow up and live to its full potential. I feel like if you willingly have sex and become pregnant, it's your own fault. Your CHOICE was to have sex before you were ready to have kids. That doesn't mean I'm set against abortion. I'm definitely for it in the case of incest/rape or medical complications for the mother, and I don't even know what my feelings for it are in other situations considering I hate government control. But from that religious perspective, when you abort a baby, you are killing a child of God. I doubt it'll be counted as "murder", especially if you repent of it and ask for forgiveness, but you're still prematurely killing one of God's children. It's the same as suicide. When someone commits suicide, they are prematurely ending their life.
Anyway, homosexuality is said to be a sin in the Bible. If you're Christian and believe in the Bible, then you must believe that it is a sin. I have nothing against homosexuals, and they can do whatever they want. I shouldn't worry so much about other people as much as I should worry about fixing my own sinful ways. I'm even for civil unions and everything. I just understand that if there is a God, and if the Bible is His word, then those who sin against Him will have to deal with justice - no matter the sin.
Also, sins are not all equal in God's eyes. Lying isn't equal to murder, or anything. That would be completely unfair.
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(I'm just wondering. I fully understand your views on homosexuality and I don't really have a issue with them... You have your reasons for it and they are all well, reasonable.)
Θήρα (Thera) LIKE A BOSS wrote: "Personally I find the gay thing a little disconcerting, but on the grounds of not offending anyone I keep my mouth shut."Do you mind if I ask why "the gay thing" is disconcerting? I'm just curious, and I wouldn't take personal offence, but you don't have to answer if you'd rather not.
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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I understand where you're coming from, since these are your religious beliefs. I mean, you can believe that gay people will have to deal with consequences in the afterlife––and yes, I personally have issues with that belief, but I'm not trying to change your point of view. I guess it doesn't really matter, so long as you're not discriminating against gay people or abusing them. And I know that, in your case, you're not doing that. But anyway ... you say gay people will not be perfectly happy, and personally I don't think that's true. I think most gay people are perfectly content just the way they are, and that they don't consider their homosexuality to be a "mistake." But that's just my opinion.
Well, abortion is kind of an entirely different debate. But my views on it are complicated. I do see a pregnancy as being a potential life, although I don't know about people having spirits and/or souls. Being agnostic, that's something I constantly question, so I don't really know about that. An abortion is something I would probably never choose for myself or advise someone else to do unless it was necessary. Like you said, I support it if it was caused by incest/rape/etc., if it's going to harm the mother, if the mother is like 12 years old, and so forth. I think it's irresponsible if the mother treats abortion like it's birth control ... but on the other hand, mistakes happen. It really varies from case to case. So basically, I support the right but not necessarily the act, if that makes sense. But then again, I don't think anyone likes abortion...
Ah, okay. Good to know. (About how all sins aren't equal, I mean.)
Jayda wrote: "Lav [do I end up happy?] wrote: "Oh, and about the gay thing and Christians and all that. I'm a Christian and my church doesn't tend to support homosexuality, but lately I've been having trouble ..."
Yeah, it confuses me too. I think it's because there's a reason why God made a woman and not another man. I mean, we're supposed to reproduce and you can only do that if you're with somebody of the opposite gender.
Oh well. I just don't question God.
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I still consider it murdering, and murdering is wrong.
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That pretty much sums up how I feel about it.
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See, I don't really like that point of view, since in a lot of cases abortion happens in order to save the mother or because the baby is not going to be born alive, anyway. It's already extremely difficult for the mother to suffer through the abortion, and then for people to call her a murderer afterward is just plain cruel.
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Me: (reading an article in the Times about the Republican candidates) "Rick Santorum has said that he would no..."
Oh wow ... that is just ridiculous. >_< I mean, the poor girl would be traumatized no matter what.
Holden wrote: "Along those lines, a funny conversation I had with my mom about this the other day:Me: (reading an article in the Times about the Republican candidates) "Rick Santorum has said that he would no..."
'The additional trauma of an aborition would be too much for the mother'
oh my God. I am so grateful for David Cameron right now.
That's almost as bad as "I think that's really sad, but everything happens for a reason."
Emily [Phasers set on stun.] wrote: "Jayda wrote: "I love gay people. I know many and I love them all individually. I'm not saying no gay people are horrible, because there are just bad people in every group of people and I've come to...""I sort of compare it to favorite types of ice cream. Your favorite might be chocolate while your best friend's might be vanilla. But just because you don't share the same favorites doesn't mean that you still can't love each other."
You're wonderful, you know that?
ETA: Although it's a rather weak analogy for the topic in context, which is serious business. Ice cream is ice cream.
I know it's weak. I didn't know how to sum it up.
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And that is a wonderful quote.
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*covers ears* ICE CREAM OM NOM NOM
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Baxter wrote: "I dunno, man. I'm pretty sure ice cream is just as important as them gay rights and junk."The sexual and social liberation of millions of people=/= ice cream.
I do rather love Ben & Jerry's, though.
Jayda wrote: "Lav [and I still count the minutes] wrote: "I'm not sure if this has already been discussed but I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts on the Westboro Baptist Church are. (The church in Topeka that..."Jayda wrote: "Lav [do I end up happy?] wrote: "Oh, and about the gay thing and Christians and all that.
I'm a Christian and my church doesn't tend to support homosexuality, but lately I've been having trouble ..."
Remind me to reply to these posts when I'm on my laptop and it's easier to type.
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The sexual and social liberation of millions of people=/= ice cream.
I do rather love Ben..."
Man, you need to catch up with the world Ice cream thought. Everybody who is anybody is campaigning for the rights of delicious flavors across the globe.
Aleph wrote: "Holden wrote: "I agree with Lav, that it's a really difficult decision, but that that decision should be left to the mother who's going to have to deal with the consequences, rather than the federa..."I know so, in all other aspects he is entirely suckish. However, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't say something like that.
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
What do you mean? You find homosexuality disconcerting, or the protest of gay rights disconcerting?