Young Writers discussion
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Debating is Fun...
Lav wrote: "Is that sarcasm? Or an insult? Or a compliment? I'm not sure whether I should be offended at that comment (and no, I don't have low self esteem. Guess who wore a puppy shirt and two high pigtails t..."Puppy shirt? High pigtails? I LOVE YOU. YOU SOUND JUST LIKE ME.
Well DAMMIT. That rapture utterly failed to take place.
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I knooooow, bro! SO let down.
Me and my friends had this whole plan for teaming up with the demons.
Acacia wrote: "Well DAMMIT. That rapture utterly failed to take place."I know! D:
I was doing some guitar practise at the time they said it was meant to happen (I heard 6pm), but I totally didn't realise the predicted time had been and gone until I'd finished and it had just gone seven.
Woah. Interesting conversations and debating that went on. Pity I missed it. Good stuff.
Holden wrote: "It was getting weird out here though cuz we had a bunch of storms and tornado warnings that evening so we were like "oh, here it is, He was just a little late..." ;-)"That's what I was thinking. :P
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001...
I, for one, was extremely pissed off ... And then I saw there was a huge backlash on Twitter against it, which made me happy.
But anyway, does anyone have an opinion on the article, or the general idea of it––is it bad for YA fiction to be as dark (or darker) than adult fiction?
Well, it really depends. In some instances, there are the kids that follow things. For example, lets say all these books are saying its okay to cut yourself. The follower reading the book is suffering a bad bout of depression, and decides to cut themselves because the books are portraying that. So what if it ends up being fatal? The books are somewhat to blame.Now, with the whole raping and violence thing, it is a tad bit dark for younger teens. Sure, they're going to read it, but I like the whole "PG-15" that they talked about. It gives you a warning, and if the kids and/or parents are okay with it, the kids can read the books. I honestly don't believes its going to effect them any unless they don't see how awful they made the protagonist's life. Only then, when the so-said child cannot see that and decides to do it them self, is it a problem.
With foul language, they're just portraying what kids say, although to much is awful annoying. My friend was reading a book where they pretty much said the f-word on every page. It really annoyed me. I don't care if they say "hell" or "damn" every so often, but the f-word is really pushing it for me and when they overuse it I can't read the book.
Now, as my mom is a stricter Christian, she would have a problem with all the things mentioned above. She'll let me read books with the occasional cuss word and the occasional fight scene, but with heavy sexual themes and what not, I'm not allowed. Okay, I'm a Christian too, but I'll tolerate some things. But if every other page is sex, all fight scenes are filled with extreme blood and gore, and every page is just filled with swears, I won't read it.
Honestly, I don't read any YA because everything is about vampires and cheesy high school romances. I didn't know there were YA books with really dark themes other than some vampire books. I will admit that I thought themes like that were in adult books, not YA and it kind of shocks me. We DO need some happier YA fiction, and some decent writing for that matter. Like I stated before, I can't read YA because I hate every storyline they have. "Harry Potter" is about the only book series in my school's library that I'll read, and eight-year-olds are reading that.
To sum it up, I agree with the article in some matters, and we need someone to write some happier YA fiction with a good storyline that DOESN'T involve vampires.
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Holden wrote: "Emily the Zepik [Mrs. Han Solo] wrote: "To sum it up, I agree with the article in some matters, and we need someone to write some happier YA fiction with a good storyline that DOESN'T involve vampi..."EXACTLY! It's like, "Can I PLEASE read something that actually tells me there's good in the world?"
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Holden wrote: "WHY WON'T GOODREADS POST MY COMMENTS!? WORKWORKWORKWORKWORK *SCREAMS IN AGONY*"I KNOW.
♥ Brigid ♥ wrote: "So, there was this Wall Street Journal article today about how YA fiction is "too dark" and apparently is poisoning our minds and whatnot. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001......"
I feel like this is a very inappropriate article. This person is looking more on the ideas in the books itself. Apparently, this person is imagining five year olds reading books like "Scars." It's just plain silly. Times have changed. We can deny it and be oblivious to it, but that won't help anything.
But this does not mean we need to indulge this. By "this," I mean swearing, sex scenes, and violent scenes. As a writer, I think it's wrong to use these characteristics just to thrill the reader. Heh. *awkward*
Anyway, I think we should respect this. But of course, there are some horrible books out there with like the "f" word on every page. I agree with Emily on that reason.
Some snobby adults out there in this society like the person who wrote the article have never experienced much really. When it comes to devastating topics like rape and abuse, who the hell cares if it's too "dark?" Of course, they care.
I think it's good to dwell into different perspectives of humankind.
To conclude, authors don't create these issues, Meghan (the article writer). Reality creates these issues, and authors write about them to spread the word. The news channel can be "dark," but that doesn't mean I won't read it. Ignorance is not innocence. It is just not.
Now these days, you can never say realistic fiction is just fiction because somewhere around the world; it's reality.
Thank you, thank you
*bows*
Brought to you by Pure Protein. The company with the slogan, "Eat Good. Look Great."
*stomps on Pure Protein*
Anyway,
Toodles,
Picture
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001......"
Yeah, I think teen fiction is too dark... and predictable. Well, not all teen fiction, mostly the paranormal romance. Blah. But, realistic fic is pretty good. I just like... happier things. Not this uberly melodramatic BS.
I don't mind lots of swearing though, actually, I welcome it.
Adding on to my thing earlier, I don't care if you have things about depression and rape, because I've had some story ideas centered around that, but when every other book is about that, I can't read anything.
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When I'm feeling depressed I read. It helps me feel like I'm feeling emotions. But that's just me.
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Holden wrote: "WHY WON'T GOODREADS POST MY COMMENTS!? WORKWORKWORKWORKWORK *SCREAMS IN AGONY*"I KNOWWW. GRRR.
message 622:
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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Anyway. I wrote a blog post on the matter if you want to know my entire, detailed opinion on the matter: http://mylifeasateenagenovelist.blogs...
But anyway, what I think is the problem here is that the author of the article is obviously not familiar with YA literature. She says, "kidnapping and pederasty and incest and brutal beatings are now just part of the run of things in novels directed, broadly speaking, at children from the ages of 12 to 18" ... Okay, first of all, 12-18 year olds are not children. They're young adults. Hence, the name of the genre. Secondly, this statement simply isn't true. I read tons of YA, and although some of them deal with such issues, they are definitely not "just part of the run". And even if they were, so what? I think teenagers can handle these issues, and––like it or not––they are a part of everyday life, and things everyone should know about.
The article seems to imply that modern YA literature is purposefully trying to appeal to the darker half of teens' minds, encouraging them to be violent and/or harm themselves, which I think is just ridiculous. I read lots of dark books, but I am not depressed, nor have I ever murdered anyone or thought of mutilating myself. And I don't think a depressed person reading such things would think, "Hey, this book is definitely telling me to kill myself!" Rather, they might even find comfort in seeing that other teens share their issues, and therefore would be more confident about seeking help. Also, I've read many books about teens with self-harm issues and/or eating disorders, and none of them in any way encouraged such actions; instead, these books had hopeful endings that inspired teens to find help and to not give up on themselves. As a writer, I've written some scary, depressing, graphic stuff––but never with the intention to depress anyone. Rather, my goal as a writer is to bring a message of hope out of the darkest of conflicts. For me, it's about creating strong character relationships and showing how the characters' strength and passion prevail when they are faced with dark issues.
Also, is anyone else bothered by the "Books We Can Recommend For Young Adult Readers" list––which they segregated by gender?! Really?! Not to mention the irony of most of their choices... Especially Fahrenheit 451. :P
♥ Brigid ♥ wrote: "Isn't it just like me to start up a debate and then not give my own opinion ... or check on the topic ... Anyway. I wrote a blog post on the matter if you want to know my entire, detailed opinion..."
Bahahaha. They or she spent the whole time talking about how age for these books is an issue. But then, she separates the reading list by gender. That's just whack there.
message 624:
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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♥ Brigid ♥ wrote: "Indeed. Not to mention the books she suggests are mostly adult books, not YA ... and that they contain just as many objectionable issues (or more) than the books she pointed fingers at in her artic..."I was wondering where all those books came from. Honestly, I haven't heard YA books THAT bad.
message 626:
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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♥ Brigid ♥ wrote: "I've heard of The Marbury Lens and The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian ... but I haven't read either one. I read tons of YA though, and I know books that controversial are pretty rare. ..."I agree.
Lav [the only that I know how to feel] wrote: "Rebekka (hmm, yes) wrote: "Lav [alone on a bicycle built for two] wrote: "I don't agree with that at all. I think a lot of the reason books for teens are a lot more dark is because teens today deal..."When I'm feeling depressed, I can't read... no matter how hard I try, I can't get into a book.
When I'm feeling depressed, I sit on the computer all day and become an annoying insecure thing.
When I'm feeling depressed, I eat a lollipop. Lol. Jk. When I'm feeling depressed, I write.
Boom.
Mission accomplished.
Dun, dun, dun, dun
♥ Brigid ♥ wrote: "Indeed. Not to mention the books she suggests are mostly adult books, not YA ... and that they contain just as many objectionable issues (or more) than the books she pointed fingers at in her artic..."Stupid arrogant person.
...
Not you Brigid. Her. Lol.
I ATE A LOLLIPOP TODAY. It actually helped. =)
Juliet wrote: "I NEVER FEEL DEPRESSED."Denial.
The first stage of depression or is it grief?
Lol.
;)
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That's not depressing... that's good... *shakes head*
Picture wrote: "When I'm feeling depressed, I eat a lollipop. Lol. Jk. When I'm feeling depressed, I write.
Boom.
Mission accomplished.
Dun, dun, dun, dun"
When I'm depressed, I actually can't write because it clogs my ideas up.
Rebekka (hmm, yes) wrote: "It's pissing me off that you people are using "depressed" as a synonym for "sad". Depression is a mental health disorder and I'd really appreciate if you guys would treat it like that and stop thr..."I mean, I only did a 30- or 40-slide slideshow on it. :P
message 641:
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Brigid ✩, No tears in the writer, no tears in the reader.
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I'm pretty sure everyone knows what it means, so don't accuse them of not knowing. No one's trying to offend anyone else. But it's a word that almost everyone uses as a synonym for "sad" or "in a bad mood". Just like the way people say, "Gawd, I'm gonna kill myself" casually to express their frustration/anger. You can't really control the way people use words, so I think you'll just have to get over it.
I'm lazy, so I'm just going to copy in what I said to my friend Blackbird on the subject.First things first, and most importantly: I think it’s up to parents to decide what their own children should and should not read. I’ve come across a few similar articles over the past few months, and I headdesk and the way the writers so often say similar things.
I think it’s important that things like abusive relationships, eating disorders, rape, addictions and things like that are confronted in literature, as long as they don’t glorify anything. If they do, then I agree with the article, they should be frowned upon. But if they don’t, if they’re honest, I think they’re valuable. Books are an essential source of knowledge, a way to get a better understanding of the world around you, and most importantly to make you feel like you aren’t alone in whatever you’re going through.
And besides, it’s not like books are the only thing that introduce teenagers to the Dark Scary World That Is Reality. Turn on the television, or the radio, or go on the computer, and however much you try to avoid it, ~dark things appear anyway.
The article says, “As it happens, 40 years ago, no one had to contend with young-adult literature because there was no such thing.” Exactly. To my mind it’s a good thing that it’s around anyway, that issues teenagers have to face are confronted as opposed to brushed under the literary carpet like they don’t exist.
Ellen Hopkins said, “YA books do not make the world a darker place. They bring light and hope to an already shadowed landscape. Parents have every right to encourage their kids to read the kinds of books they’d prefer. But I submit that they also have a duty to arm their young adults with knowledge; to empower them to make better choices.”
Yeah, what she said.
Amusingly, I haven't been reading half as much YA as I normally do now I'm into André Gide and Anaïs Nin and all that jazz, but it's still an entirely important genre to me, so.
*steps off soapbox*
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Denial.
The first stage of depression or is it grief?
Lol.
;)"
Naw, man. I'm like, one of the happiest people I know.
Holden wrote: "Lav [cheating gets it faster] wrote: "Indeed. Ungrateful brat."That hurt. Now I'm depressed."
>=)
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I know that depression is a mental health condition. I'm not saying I'm depressed or even that I have been, because I'm really not sure, but I've sure felt really depressed before at certain points in my life, and I'm not just saying that to mean that I've been sad. I think you shouldn't judge people's use of words when you don't know them and don't know what they've gone through in their lives.
Juliet wrote: "Picture wrote: "Juliet wrote: "I NEVER FEEL DEPRESSED."Denial.
The first stage of depression or is it grief?
Lol.
;)"
Naw, man. I'm like, one of the happiest people I know."
Sincerely, Meth.
Lol. Jk.
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OH shut up, maybe you're the one who doesn't know what it means to be depressed or maybe someone's definition is different and maybe people aren't exaggerating and they actually do know what its like to be depressed.
Rebekka (hmm, yes) wrote: "It's pissing me off that you people are using "depressed" as a synonym for "sad". Depression is a mental health disorder and I'd really appreciate if you guys would treat it like that and stop thr..."I have to agree with Lav on this one. Unless you are able to enter the minds of those you do not know at your free will, I don't think you can judge by that. I don't get depressed over little things. I don't think anyone does. Now, if we say we're depressed, that doesn't mean that we have all the symptoms of depression or are clinically depressed.
If you look up "depressed" in the dictionary (not the medical dictionary--just a regular one), "sad" is a synonym for depressed. Just saying.
I say this all to say that I agree with you. I think we do use the word "depressed" sometimes from my observations of people that I actually know. I don't know people on the internet. 2D pictures can't tell you much about a person. But there are some ignorant girls out there who say they are "depressed" over the stupidest little things.
But by all means, I don't think they're referring to clinically depressed. Just sad maybe.
Medical dictionaries and just regular dictionary don't always have the same meanings for words.
For example:
People speak:
Oh, my heart yearns for you.
Medical speak:
Do you mean the muscle that is part of the circulatory system and pumps blood to various organs in your body?
Blah. No.
Anyway,
My words of wisdom are done for the day.
-Picture
People also say things like "that's depressing." You can usually figure out from the context which "depressed" they're referring to.
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You can usually figure out from the context which "depressed" they're referring to."
As Baxter and Acacia said to me, I can't see being offended by something being called "depressing" or someone being "depressed." It's not like calling someone a retard or something.
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Freedom of speech is no excuse to hurt other people and disrespect them. I don't support the killing of that man, but this sort of rebellion isn't nice.
And besides, if this is happening for freedom, then I can tell you right now that everybody has the freedom/right to be respected. Even if you don't respect THEM, at least respect their beliefs. That's freedom. And this day doesn't support that.