Terminalcoffee discussion
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Service fees and punctuation
Ehhh...I'm just quoting Michael Franti & Spearhead. I believe it is not intended to be read as a double negative. And it's a way more serious song than the context I'm using it in. it never makes no sense
It never makes no sense
Fire, fire, fire, light up your lighter
Armegeddon is a deadly day
Armegeddon is a deadly way
They're coming for you everyday
WHile senators on a holiday
The army recruiters in the parking lot
Hustling kids, they're juggling pot
"Listen young man, listen to my plan
Gonna make you money, gonna make you a man.
(bomb, bomb)
Here's what you get, an M16 and a kevlar vest
You might come home with one less leg but this thing will surely keep a bullet out your chest
So come on, come on, sign up, come on
This one's nothing like Vietnam
Except for the bullets, except for the bombs
Except for the youth that's gone"
confusion abounds. nonsense too. Clarity of thought helps clarify language." sloppy language is the sign of a sloppy mind."
BunWat wrote: "If we are going to use that framework then I restate my point as follows;The grammar of math and the grammar of english are not the same."
I would have used a colon rather than a semi-colon in that sentence. Would I have been incorrect?
Concert tickets are notoriously bad for this, too, right? I saved twenty bucks in service fees on two tickets this fall by purchasing them at the box office instead of online.
Sarah Pi wrote: "BunWat wrote: "If we are going to use that framework then I restate my point as follows;The grammar of math and the grammar of english are not the same."
I would have used a colon rather than a semi-colon in that sentence. Would I have been incorrect?"
as far as i'm concerned you are.
For sure. Concerts are awful about it. Especially when the only options are putting your name at will-call or you printing your ticket, so it's not like they are spending money on mailing or even printing a ticket.This park just annoyed me because the service fee is on all of the above, even walking up.
you know what doesn't make sense? the KKK. why are they still around if EVERYBODY hates them?
But RA, in Sarah's case, she would only save 5¢ per night, 10¢ at the most! That is a very ineffective inducement for most people.
janine wrote: "as far as i'm concerned you are. ."That's why I asked! For some reason I use a lot of colons. It's a grammatical Achilles' heel.
Jammies wrote: "But RA, in Sarah's case, she would only save 5¢ per night, 10¢ at the most! That is a very ineffective inducement for most people."Yeah, and it amounts to a $4 increase on all campsites, so why hide behind a service charge?
Sarah Pi wrote: "janine wrote: "as far as i'm concerned you are. ."That's why I asked! For some reason I use a lot of colons. It's a grammatical Achilles' heel."
i like colons more than semi-colons.
Sarah Pi wrote: "Yeah, and it amounts to a $4 increase on all campsites, so why hide behind a service charge?"Because some marketing genius told them not to raise their prices would be my guess.
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"commas are smaller than semicolons and go with coordinating conjunctions, which are almost always short two- or three-letter words—small punctuation mark, small words. Semicolons are bigger and they go with conjunctive adverbs, which are almost always longer than three letters—bigger punctuation, bigger words."
(http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/...)
well, a colon is used to show an example of of something: for eaxample: and a comma is used to indicate a pause in which a person continues to explain what they are saying and add a more elaborate point to their argument. You use a semicolon where the only plausible punctuations to use would be a colon or a comma, but grammatically, neither of those would work, so you use a semicolon.yes. it is.
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well, fortunately I am not there yet; I'm not old enough to be a sophomore, but I'm almost there!
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**writhes around in a giant puddle of pus and saliva**
::picks Sally up from giant puddle of pus and saliva::Look! I use capital letters!
janine wrote: Look! I use capital letters!"Is there a special occasion?
I have to say that Jenny with the penguin fever does seem to have a better grasp of grammar than many of her peers, at least when she's not tormenting Sally.
Jonathan wrote: "janine wrote: Look! I use capital letters!"Is there a special occasion?"
i'm trying to revive sally from her puddle of pus.
:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;,:,;
yes: I am a grammar freak, and I; LLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVVVVVVEEEEEEEEE ;to :write
janine wrote: "i'm trying to revive sally from her puddle of pus."Oh. Well, carry on.
As an English teacher, y'all are making me laugh! The cases in which each element of punctuation is used are too extensive to list here, but it's not all that confusing. I'm sorry to have to say so, but I have to say: BunWat should have used a colon in her sentence, as she was alerting us to the fact that she was getting ready to explain something. That's one of the functions of colons: introducing an explanation, an example, a list or a quotation. You can use a semicolon when you want to join two independent clauses; there are other ways of doing that too, of course. Semi-colons seem a bit precious to me in most situations. I only see the point of using them in recipes, and possibly academic writing, the purpose of which is to make you feel stupid.
Hooray! Rebecca says I'm right! Bun is one of the wisest ladies I know, so no offense is meant by my celebration. I'm just excited that my colon-happiness was correct this time.
A diet high in fiber can help promote that.
We haven't had a good grammar talk in a while. We needed this. Cleans the system and all that.
Hey Sally; I love punctuation: even though, I'm really; really: really, bad at it. haha
Wow. The Sally vs Penguinfever semicolon debate is awesome.
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It makes more sense in the context of a five year old boy in an easter suit.
I think I get what Rebecca means by precious in this context. In writing professional journalism for a general reader, you'll find that editors frown on the semi-colon because it tends to direct attention to the writer's process rather than the content of the prose. Also, a certain percentage of readers will be confused by a semi-colon, which is a problem. So most editors, especially newspaper editors, will simply replace a semi-colon with a period whenever possible and let a semi-colon stand only when it seems absolutely necessary and unavoidable. Colons are more widely used, but mostly to introduce a list of particulars. If you use a colon as a fancy way of linking two independent but related thoughts that could just as easily be written as separate sentences, this too will generally not survive the editor's pen unless the connection implied by the colon seems deeply necessary.
Again, here, I'm talking about periodical journalism for a general audience. Books are a bit different, and academic writing has entirely different standards.
In writing for newspapers, your main marks of punctuation are the comma and the period. The em-dash, used sparingly, can be helpful. The colon, when truly needed, is fine. But parentheses and semi-colons will get you a lot of grief--and diminishing assignments--from editors if you make a habit of using them.
And sooner or later everyone
I don't think it is a judgment call, Bun, but if you've got documentation, I'd certainly be happy to see it. I've done quite a bit of work in this area academically and professionally and have never, ever seen any suggestion of a semicolon being used in that way. I also did a quick check yesterday before I wrote what I did, and didn't find anything different.Addressing the question of preciousness: Semicolons are a way of connecting two independent clauses without using a conjunction. To me, if you don't need the conjunction, you might as well make it two separate sentences. Like Jonathan said, it's distracting and it seems like an attempt to fancy up something that doesn't need fancying up. Just use a period! Or, if you do want the ideas connected, use a conjunction!
I make the exception for cookbooks, because I see the purpose in tying together two steps that closely follow each other. "Beat the egg whites until they form soft peeks; add sugar and beat mixture until it forms hard peaks." The visual is helpful when you're running back and forth to the book to do your steps and trying to figure out what comes next.
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When it comes to professional writing, I'm fairly merciless. People refer to professional writing to see how it's done - they expect it to be correct. In informal situations, I really don't, and my intention wasn't to correct anyone - I never would - but the discussion had already started about "what's the rule about this." So I just said, is all...
"*New service charge fees for reservations. For every night reserved a service charge will be added to the base rates noted below for properties on the reservation system. For reservations made through the Internet, the per night fee is $4.30. For reservations made through the call center, the per night fee is $4.35, and for reservations made at the park the per night fee is $4.25."
Why not just raise the base price, if you're going to be charging $4 more per night for internet, phone, and in-person?