Dorothy Dunnett fans discussion
Lymond Chronicles
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Checkmate ***SPOILERS*** ONLY for those who have READ IT!
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Whoa. You’ve opened a new avenue of thought for me here. Like you, I always concluded that Kuzum wasn’t Francis’ son. But, as you say, DD is never careless with her words. I think I’m going to have to reread…
Thanks for responding Jaima! I thought I'd not hear from anyone.I guess I give a lot of weight to Sybilla's take on the subject since she would most remember Francis at 7 years old, and see (or not see) a resemblance to Kuzum. If Marthe and Francis can look soooo similar from different mothers then FC1 had some strong genes. Strange, though, that neither Sybilla, and to a lesser degree Richard, has said, "well he looks just like you at that age". Which just gets me back to not really knowing if he is or isn't!
This way madness lies! It's one of the great Dunnett debates - I'm sure she's delighted it continues to roll. I agree that DD never wasted a word, so here's a couple of things to think about:What is Kuzum doing the first time you met him, and what about Khairredan? Think about how those scenes - peaches and a boat - relate to the vocabulary used in association with the mothers.
It's Philippa and Archie that deliver Kuzum to Midculter - they may never disclose the possibility that Kuzum isn't Lymond's child to the Culter family.
And Lymond expends a lot of energy avoiding Scotland, and Kuzum. Richard and Sybilla might be seeing Lymond characteristics everywhere, but this is where the great nature/nurture debate in the Lymond Chronicles also enters.
Hi Jo! All good points those! I didn't question the issue at all until Sybilla's words in those last few pages (see my post from 11/1 for details). Only then did I get a small question mark in my head. But like I said before, it makes much more sense overall if he's not Francis' child. DD must certainly be having a good laugh at these posts!!
The parental issue is the one I've been scratching my head over. I'll be doing a reread soon and I'll be sure to keep these comments in mind, and make annotations as I go. But, I'm sure I'll still be none the wiser for it! And, as Carolyn says, I'm sure DD loves the mulling over the boys identities even though she stated it should be very clear which boy belongs with which parents. Certainly not clear to us readers even with the overt symbolism. I'm hoping it'll become clearer with a reread with the benefit of hindsight.
Look forward to any other illuminating nuggets others will share here.
Jo wrote: "This way madness lies! It's one of the great Dunnett debates - I'm sure she's delighted it continues to roll. I agree that DD never wasted a word, so here's a couple of things to think about:What ..." Possibly Marthe is DD's big example of nature vs nurture, OTOH, Francis represents the best example: nature AND nurture wins. Clearly the love Sybilla provides Francis overcomes much of the early challenges in his life with awful Gavin, but not all. Eloise is the enigma to me. Any thoughts? What was DD plan in creating this person in the Chronicles? Just more angst for Lymond? I still struggle with the meaning of Eloise in PIF with Phillipa and their wedding night.
Hi George, I'm unsure of what Eloise was all about as well. She didn't get much of my focus, so it'll be one of the many things I pay more attention to when I re-read the series (books I will buy, not borrow, so I can reference again and again!)I think it was revealed in CM that Eloise, like Francis, believed that they were children of incest. I don't think she could come to grips with it, and I'm wondering if she let harm befall her (run into the burning building perhaps?). Just my two cents though.
Carolyn wrote: "Hi George, I'm unsure of what Eloise was all about as well. She didn't get much of my focus, so it'll be one of the many things I pay more attention to when I re-read the series (books I will buy, ..."Very little description of Eloise ( was she a Marthe/Lymond clone?) so I am unsure but I like your insight(running into the building). I have a set of 40 year old paperback Chronicles..Checkmate is shedding it's last back pages slowly, one or two at a re-reading. Probably time to re-read GOK and DK(wasn't there something about Eloise in that?). Regards.
G
Re: Kuzum, is he or isn't he?
I'm not obsessed with knowing, and I'm firmly in the camp that it doesn't matter anyway. Aside from the gut feeling that Kuzum is NOT Francis', it makes more sense from a story-arc standpoint. Francis lived his life thinking he was a child of incest and tried to live down that shame (not very successfully, right?). Now here is Kuzum, truly a child of incest (unless you believe Ludo D'Harcourt is the father) and it's up to Francis to embrace the boy as his own, be a loving father, so Kuzum will never feel like Francis did.
I'm so good with that! BUT, the only thing that keeps sticking in my craw (gah!) is what Sybilla says to Philippa at the end. I don't have the library book anymore so I need to paraphrase but it was when she was explaining why she married Gavin. She says she came back to Scotland and there was FC1's house and book and friends, and Gavin wanted to marry her ("importuned" as DD put it, but that's a whole other discussion), so to keep those things close (and give him an heir), she marries Gavin.
Sybilla, looking for a woman's support of her decision, asks Philippa "if Francis died, would you marry Kuzum?" Doesn't that imply that FC1 son = Gavin, so FC2 son = Kuzum? Why draw that parallel so clearly if Kuzum is not his blood son? DD could have worded that in a generic way... like "Philippa, if Francis died, would you marry his son by another woman, to keep your true love's house, books and friends close to you? But instead she makes a clear correlation there.
Did anyone else get tripped up by that? Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but DD's word choice is never careless.
Thoughts anyone???