Declaration of Independence or Constitution

[Arminius]

Which of the two were more important?

[Tim (Mole) The Gunslinger]

i agree if there wasnt a declaration there wouldnt be a need for a constitution we would still be a colony!lol

[Terence]

If you'll forgive the cliche, I think we're comparing apples to oranges.

The Declaration was just that - a declaration of the colonies' grievances and what they planned to do about them. It didn't outline any form of government, and only hinted (if that) at what a post-rebellion government might look like.

The Constitution, on the other hand, is a blueprint (the first of its kind) for a government.

Both are products of the Enlightenment - Post French Revolution, I don't know of any document like the Declaration (though plenty of constitutions have been written and rewritten since 1787). It was a very science-oriented and rational age and it was only natural that the Founders would go to great lengths to justify their rebellion (hence the Declaration). Just as it was natural that they would delineate exactly how the new polity would work (hence the Constitution). The colonies would have revolted regardless of whether or not Jefferson had put pen to paper.

I can't recommend Garry Wills' Inventing America (about the Declaration) and Explaining America (the Constitution) enough regarding this stuff.

[Terence]

I'm not going to defend my position too strongly here. It is, afterall, a "what if." As I understand it, the rebellion wasn't too terribly popular in any of the colonies but resulted (in large part) from a combination of inept British policy and radical Americans (like Sam Adams) who forced their hand.

My point, I think, was that the Declaration and the Constitution are incomparable. Both are important in the contexts where they were conceived but one doesn't necessarily need the other to exist. And I think independence would have come eventually; either after a bloody rebellion (as it happened) or in a Canadian-style disengagement.

And sorry if my phrasing was confusing, I am aware that the Declaration predates the French Revolution by a few years :-) My point there was that after the two great Enlightenment-inspired revolutions, no other rebellion took the same form. Though, reflecting upon my original post, I realized that I don't know enough about the South American revolutions to know if my statement is true so any elucidation on that would be welcome.

[Manuel]

My college history prof said that all revolutions start off very liberal but inevitably they tend to mellow out.

The Declaration of Independance was incredibly revolutionary and optomistic when it came out.

The Constitution was an attempt by the powers at be to say "What the hell did we start? This thing has to be controled somehow.

In other words; the Constitution was the Thermodorian reaction (the conservative part of revolutions) to the wildly liberal Declaration of Independance.

Supposedly this happens in All revolutions.

[Marian]

It hasn't happened in most of the revolutions in the Central America & South American countries. When Sim Bolivar liberated his country from the Spanish, he tried to establish a democracy, but at the end of the 19th century all the Latin American countries that had attempted democracies were either dictatorships (one man in charge) or Oligarchies (a group of "elite" families that passed the roles of government around to each other while staging "show" elections.)
In the 20th century the Mexican revolution that overturned the dictator Diaz in 1910 began a democratic government with Madero. But a coup in 1913 assinated Madero & put a dictator in charge. The revolution was re-ignited but Mexico remained under an oligarchy until the ruling party was defeated in an election in the 1990's.
The history of Africa's new democracies is even more gloomy.
The US was very fortunate that the right men came together with the right political climate. The French revolution, which followed soon after ended with the reigns of Napoleon I, II & III.

[Manuel]

Yes it has.

All revolutions start off promissing sunshine and lollipops for everyone. Then there is a reaction towards the right in an attempt to control things. Inevitably oligarchs will try to swing things back to the "right".

Our Consitution was an attempt to get things under control from the chaotic situation started by the Declaration of Independence.

[Will]

The Declaration of Independence...by far! The Constitution laid out a form of government to follow as a guideline, but the Declaration was what we--as a society, a country, a people--would try to be, to achieve, to become and to lead others into freedom. Big difference...yes, but we hold up the Constitution as if it were the Bible. It is in the Declaration where our faith should remain.

[Mike]

I agree with Terence, the two are apples and oranges. The clever answer, of course, is to say the Declaration, since it helped spur events that lead to the Constitution. However, there is no direct correlation between precedence and importance. There's really no clear way to properly compare the two in terms of "importance".

But since you asked...

I'd have to say the Constitution is the more significant of the two because it created a system of government that was built on the principles of the Revolution and provided a means to protect them. Even with the Revolution won, there was no guarantee the newly independent colonies would have evolved into the nation we know today. They just as easily could have never come to a compromise about how to conduct affairs with each other, and splintered off into regional powers. The genius of the Constitution is that it took the principles of the Revolution and then used them as the foundation for a system of government that provided for the common defense and welfare of its citizenry without the same type of splintered factionalism that plagued Europe for all of modern history. In fact, the one attempt to overthrow the system embodied by the Constitution was the result of issues that were never fully dealt with during the Convention. Despite that flaw, the Constitution has provided for a government of exceptional durability and adaptability. If, as Will says, the Declaration is where our faith should lie, then the Constitution built the cathedral in which we can worship.

P.S. As serial British PM William Gladstone put it: "the American Constitution is, so far as I can see, the most wonderful work ever struck off at a given time by the brain and purpose of man."

Talk about being a good loser...

[Jim]

GOT TO GO WITH MIKE

IT'S WORKED MORE OR LESS FOR 200+ YEARS
NO COUPS, NO DICTATORS,NO ELECTIONS SUSPENDED

NOT A BAD SCORECARD