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TSA security screenings?
well,after 9/11 all the experts said it would be a trade off: personal liberty vs.personal safety...but the safety measures don't seem to always work that well, do they?
I'm kind of looking forward to being felt up, but only if I can choose the feeler-upper.No, no, this is kind of interesting to me. I don't know about the rest of you, but whenever I went to concerts back in Chicago you had to go through a fairly thorough pat-down to get through the doors. I mean, has no one here been patted down before? Or is it just me? I guess I'm easy.
Why wouldn't I go through the full body scan? Because someone might see me naked? Or store the pictures?
This has been all over the news...and I totally get the "personal liberty" issue, but I don't quite get the sexualization of some guy checking me out for weapons or looking at an x-ray of me. Maybe I'm naive.
It was a hot topic on a local radio show yesterday. A man called and said the screener actually checked each testicle? How about your kids? Do you want your boys felt up like that, RA?
Well, I guess that's a fair question. But again...1) I don't want to assume that my boys getting patted down is a sexualization of them. I never felt sexualized getting body searched at concerts...and 2) if I don't want them felt up, they can go through the machine, right? Now, if this doesn't help security, yes, I can understand the "personal liberty" issue without a payoff. But if it saves lives and keeps planes from getting blown up, at what seems like a small price, I'm ok with it. Maybe I'm missing something.
Some doctors have expressed concern about the full-body scanners and possible long-term medical effects.Years ago, no dentist used a lead apron on a pregnant woman--they just took x-rays. Now, we understand repleated exposure of ANY kind can be dangerous.
Sure, if you travel once a year at the holidays, it may be no big deal but people who fly very frequently will be scanned repeatedly. If persons opt out of the scanners, many news reports indicate the TSA gets really nasty. Google problems with TSa and see what you get.
But of course, the government has assured us the scanners are safe, and we know the government is never wrong (sarcasm).
And the TSA will pat down young children. They have said so.
I know I will take heat for this, but I guess it is the randomness of doing a pat down of an old man in a wheelchair, having his balls checked and then not checking someone else for fear of being accused of profiling. The whole system just seems messed up.
ms.petra wrote: "Do you want someone touching your junk?"
Depends. Does it include an "I love you" and a kiss afterwards?
Depends. Does it include an "I love you" and a kiss afterwards?
My mother always gets chosen for the random security checks - she thinks it's because she looks like she won't give them any trouble.
The system is completely messed up. There's no uniformity regarding searches; either search everyone, regardless of race, sex, religion, and ethnic origin, or search no one. The TSA agents I've spoken to all agree, but they're bound by what they're asked to do, even if it does seem excessive to do a pat-down on someone on a wheelchair.
Ultimately, the question remains, are our private freedoms greater than the public's safety? I say no, they're not.
Ultimately, the question remains, are our private freedoms greater than the public's safety? I say no, they're not.
Mod
I do mind naked pictures of me being examined by someone who is not my doctor, who is someone possibly with only a high school education. I have zero trust in the government's claim that these images are not being stored and cannot be transmitted. Bullshit. Even if the government is acting from the purest of motives - which they rarely are - there are always security gaps and flaws and eventually these will come to light.
I do object to getting a pat-down of my breasts and crotch by someone who is not a doctor or nurse.
I think people who don't mind are deluding themselves. All these technological bells and whistles are not keeping us safer. Instance after instance has shown us that the last line of defense, the only one which really has worked at least in the U.S., is fellow passengers on a plane noticing something fishy.
These tough airport security measures are not in place in Europe or the middle east, places which have a much longer experience with terrorism than we do. The Europeans and Israelis snort with derision at our intense focus on shoes. You don't have to remove your shoes in Europe or Israel - because they know how ridiculous and pointless it is.
I think the TSA and Homeland Security know very well these additional measures don't keep us safer. These measures are in place because they make us feel safer. Billions and billions of dollars to make us feel, but not actually be, safer.
I predict that the lady recently infamous for attacking a police officer with a “rigid, feminine pleasure device,” is going to be the Rosa Parks of invasive TSA screenings.
Mod
There are also property risks. During the time that a person is inside the full body imaging machine, it is impossible to maintain a line of sight to his or her belongings. Remember that because you cannot have anything in your pockets during the scan, this will include all your identification, money, and all personal items. Numerous thefts have been reported at security checkpoints, including incidents that led to the firing of four TSA employees at JFK as ABC News reported.
A leading Israeli airport security expert says the Canadian government has wasted millions of dollars to install “useless” imaging machines at airports across the country.
“I don’t know why everybody is running to buy these expensive and useless machines. I can overcome the body scanners with enough explosives to bring down a Boeing 747,” Rafi Sela told parliamentarians probing the state of aviation safety in Canada.
“That’s why we haven’t put them in our airport,” Sela said, referring to Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion International Airport, which has some of the toughest security in the world.
http://wewontfly.com/
I don't know that I can get enough of the phrase "rigid feminine pleasure device".
Clark wrote: "ms.petra wrote: "Do you want someone touching your junk?"Depends. Does it include an "I love you" and a kiss afterwards?"
Call me old fashioned but I want the kiss first.
Too, too complicated this world we live in has become. Terrorists laugh at the expense and discomfort we go through to thwart them, knowing all the while that they can't be thwarted if they're willing to give their lives to make a point. Who's checking for anal bombs in a pat-down?
Meanwhile, thousands of Americans feel really crappy about being felt up or "imaged" by people who are just doing their jobs.
Terrorism is all about power, and we're jumping through the hoops that terrorists have created.
We have the illusion that we're safe, and it's probably best to go with that. Carpe diem.
Doing some research on the net yesterday, I read several complaints and forums (one was flyer talk).What the TSa is doing is only giving us the illusion ofsafety.
But two other complaints are heard frequently:
1) Lack of training and/or professional conduct on the part of TSA employyess. Not all, of course but many.
2) Inconsistency in rules. Frequent travellers will be told such and sch item is okay--or not okay---at one airport. The next week, they are are told the opposite at a different airport.
Forgot one--three itmes!
3) No effective way for persons to make legitimate complaints later.
why didn''t we just import & uss the israeli method? theirs seems to work just fine.
From what I understand, Israel's method is based on profiling. Here in the U.S. that's a dirty word and would not be tolerated.
Jan wrote: "From what I understand, Israel's method is based on profiling."
And if you protest, they Krav Maga your ass:
[image error]
And if you protest, they Krav Maga your ass:
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I still want to take krav maga. I have the coupon on my desk. The one class I took was really
Sarah Pi wrote: "I still want to take krav maga. I have the coupon on my desk. The one class I took was really violent fun."
Seems like you can't go wrong. The Israelies don't f*ck around.
Seems like you can't go wrong. The Israelies don't f*ck around.
ms.petra wrote: "I know I will take heat for this, but I guess it is the randomness of doing a pat down of an old man in a wheelchair, having his balls checked and then not checking someone else for fear of being a..."I just want to give my own personal shout out to TSA for checking old men’s balls. I’ve never trusted those damn things.
Ken wrote: "ms.petra wrote: "I know I will take heat for this, but I guess it is the randomness of doing a pat down of an old man in a wheelchair, having his balls checked and then not checking someone else fo..."Ken doesn't trust old men's balls? What is he expecting from them?
RandomAnthony wrote: What is he expecting from them? It can’t be anything acceptable. Let’s profile those prunes as a matter of national security.
Clark wrote: "Jan wrote: "From what I understand, Israel's method is based on profiling."And if you protest, they Krav Maga your ass:
"
That isn't his ass she's Krav Magaing.
Mod
Silver lining to TSA's new crotch-groping policy: voyeurs have so much to look at! Check out this splashy photo display, showing a latex-gloved TSA agent squatting (on his knees?) with his arm submerged between another man's legs.
http://gawker.com/5693671/airport-fis...
In all fairness to the TSA agent, it isn’t every day a mangina comes to town.
Mod
Mod
(snip)
On Thursday, New York City Council members called for the city to ban the use of body scanners at city airports. And sites like WeWontFly.com and OptOutDay.com are calling for passenger protests at security checkpoints next Wednesday, the day before Thanksgiving, while other disgruntled travelers are suggesting that men wear kilts or that the boldest passengers strip down to their underwear before entering the security line.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/19/bus...
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I flew a month ago. I had to go through the scanner. Even so, the lady pulled me aside and wanded me and gave me a pat-down that was more thorough than any I've ever gotten, but wasn't sexually invasive like these people are describing.
There was an elderly Asian woman in a wheelchair ahead of us in line and they asked her several times if she could get up and walk. Finally she did (ok, so she wasn't paralyzed). After everyone had gotten through the line and was putting on their shoes again I overheard one TSA employee opine to another that the Asian woman and her husband had been pretending not to understand English. I don't know if that was true or not, but not very professional to say it in earshot of about 10 passengers.
personally i do not get too upset at the screenings as i feel that the TSA really cannot win on this. if they do not do all they can to protect passengers and there is an incident that is avoidable (possibly) the public would be outraged. on the other hand if they do all they can and have x-ray vision body scans and pat downs, the public is outraged. i have not had a sexual pat down (that i didn't have to pay extra for...just kidding) but have not flown in the last 2 weeks or so when it seems to really have gotten more intense. the real problem is that some people are evil and the very few bad apples cause all this mess. people keep finding ways to beat the security systems at airports. i def would not want a TSA job as i would feel much pressure to REALLY be thorough as lots of lives could be at stake.if they install the full body scan x-ray naked guy image units at the IND airport i am going to wear a shirt when i travel that says:
"kinda cold in here eh?"
I had a long talk with my little sister the soon to be doctor a couple of nights ago, and have a new opinion. She said everyone is framing it as a question of invasion of privacy, but the health concern is actually a lot greater. She pointed out that they really haven't done a lot of studies as to the effects of these particular x-rays. It's radiation concentrated in your skin. Bad for those with compromised immune systems, bad for those who have had melanoma, bad for pregnant women. Are they warning people about that before making them go through? Are they warning frequent fliers that there could be health effects if they're forced to go through the scanners on a regular basis? I mean, there have been proven ill effects from the x-ray scanners that shoe stores used to have. Isn't this the same thing, only worse because it's seemingly mandatory?
She also pointed out that in the pictures posted from the "whoops - some of these supposedly disposed of scans were accidentally saved," the scans pick up bits of bodies of people who are outside the scanner as well. That means that those outside the scanners, including the TSA staff who are there all day, are also getting hit with radiation.
Finally, I heard someone on the radio last night who said that the real kicker is that these machines are not going to be effective. They only take a very superficial scan. They don't detect even deep enough to catch something hidden under the fold of a breast, or a fold of fat, or in a body cavity. So what's the point? Maybe, maybe they'd catch some stupid idiot who wants to blow up a plane, but they won't do a thing to stop a trained terrorist, because they've already moved beyond this to new ways of hiding things.
that is why some pilots and crew are opting out of this type of scanning and insisting on pat downs, because of the radiation
I think everyone should insist on the pat downs and when things get personal they should start shouting, "Oh, baby. Oh, baby. Don't stop now."
Kate wrote: "I think everyone should insist on the pat downs and when things get personal they should start shouting, "Oh, baby. Oh, baby. Don't stop now.""I was going to go with "I hope you're going to buy me flowers after..."
BunWat wrote: " Maybe instead of stumbling from one kludge to another its time to say okay time to back it up and rethink the whole setup. "The guy I heard on the radio last night wrote a book about that - Bruce Schneier, I believe was his name, but I don't think the book is quite out yet.
He said we're putting people through all of this two steps behind. People brought boxcutters on the planes in 2001. We banned boxcutters and knitting needles, so people put bombs in their shoes. We started scanning shoes, so people went to liquid bombs. We banned liquids, so people put bombs in their underwear. So now we're patting people down or scanning them, but already the next scare has been printer cartridges. Now printer cartridges are banned, but obviously that's not where the next threat will come from. And nothing has been caught with post-911 technology that couldn't have been caught with pre-911 technology.
The thing that stopped the printer cartridge bomb was intelligence information. The thing that stopped the shoe bomber and the underwear bomber was observant passengers. So essentially we're giving up this privacy and risking our health for nothing.
Mod
Maybe time to reexamine our dependence on jet fuel and the airline economy? Maybe look into alternative transportation a bit? maybe?
Sally wrote: "Maybe look into alternative transportation a bit? maybe? ."The hard one there is the distances. There isn't a good alternative for, say, visiting family in South Africa. And if you're headed to another coast or country for a week, anything other than flying will eat your trip.
I'm all for making rail transit cheaper so I could pick that over other options. I'm taking the bus to NYC rather than the train because it's a difference of almost $200.
i agree sarah. the real goal of terrorism is terror. people being afraid, suspicious, nervous, anxious etc. the actual number of people physically affected by most terrorist acts is generally a small sample but those who are psychologically affected is a huge amount. chaos, costs, disruption, distrust. they have done a good job of accomplishing this
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A longtime Charlotte, N.C., flight attendant and cancer survivor told a local television station that she was forced to show her prosthetic breast during a pat-down.
For Americans who wear prosthetics — either because they are cancer survivors or have lost a limb — or who have undergone hip replacements or have a pacemaker, the humiliation of the TSA's new security procedures — choosing between a body scan or body search — is even worse.
Musa Mayer has worn a breast prosthesis for 21 years since her mastectomy and is used to the alarms it sets off at airport security. But nothing prepared her for the "invasive and embarrassing" experience of being patted down, poked and examined recently while passing through airport security at Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.
"I asked the supervisor if she realized that there are 3 million women who have had breast cancer in the U.S., many of whom wear breast prostheses. Will each of us now have to undergo this humiliating, time-consuming routine every time we pass through one of these new body scanners?" she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com.
Marlene McCarthy of Rhode Island said she went through the body scanner and was told by a TSA agent to step aside. In "full view of everyone," McCarthy said in an e-mail, the agent "immediately put the back of her hand on my right side chest and I explained I wore a prosthesis.
"Then, she put her full hands ... one on top and one on the bottom of my 'breast' and moved the prosthesis left, right, up, down and said 'OK.' I was so humiliated.
"I went to the desk area and complained," McCarthy wrote. "The woman there was very nice and I asked her if the training included an understanding of how prosthetics are captured on the scanner and told her the pat-down is embarrassing. She said, 'We have never even had that discussion and I do the training for the TSA employees here, following the standard manual provided.' She said she will bring it up at their next meeting."
If she has to go through the scanner again, McCarthy said, "I am determined to put the prosthesis in the gray bucket," provided to travelers at the security check-ins for items such as jewelry.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40278427/...
This shit does NOT give added security, it DOES piss everyone off, it DOES create fear where none need be, and it is probably adding $$ to the cost of flying.It's bullshit.
Mod
It is just another person, touching your body for a few minutes.
Now, the possible cancer causing full flesh x-rays are icky, that I concede, but what else should we do as long as people want to fly?
http://www.google.com/#max35