Great African Reads discussion
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Tropical Gangsters
Tour d'Afrique A-L Books 2008-12
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Klitgaard: Shadows of Your Black Memory" & "Tropical Gangsters | Equatorial Guinea (Tour D'Afrique) first read: Nov 2010
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Are we still sharing this thread for both books? I just got "Tropical Gangsters" out; happy to post here if that's appropriate?Given two fascist dictators were in Roman Catholic countries (Franco in Spain and Mussolini in Italy - Romania also had a fascist dictator, I believe, as did Chile, from what my tired brain recalls ??), there must be some link between this ideology and religion. I didn't really think that that was the case but then again, I've never really thought about it outside the context of fascism in Germany (which I guess was of a different "type").
Muphyn wrote: "Are we still sharing this thread for both books? I just got "Tropical Gangsters" out; happy to post here if that's appropriate?Given two fascist dictators were in Roman Catholic countries (Franc..."
i think it's fine to share the thread because i don't think we'll have very many participants this time around. if it gets unwieldy, we'll fix it somehow. i'll edit the title to reflect both books.
sheesh--i never much thought about fascism on this level. i feel like i need to do a little background reading! :D
Seriously, off the topic of Africa, can any recommend good books about Franco's Spain? I have a feeling Ndongo's book will stay with me for awhile as i learn about context...i think some things will be a bit beyond my grasp right now.I'm enjoying it so far, though. has anyone else started it? or already read it? I think i recall that Shoshana has read it.
i finished! i thought it was beautifully written and i wish his other books were available in english. seems like they are not... am i mistaken?
oh and not knowing anything about franco's spain wasnt a problem afterall.
I couldn't find his other books in English. Initially I was looking for a copy of his History and Tragedy of Equatorial Guinea in English, but eventually found this book instead.
Shoshanapnw wrote: "I couldn't find his other books in English. Initially I was looking for a copy of his History and Tragedy of Equatorial Guinea in English, but eventually found this book instead."i'm glad you found this book!
i need to hurry up and write a review for myself...i'm worried that by the time anyone else joins us at this thread for a discussion, i will have forgotten everything.
now i need to get my hands on Tropical Gangsters
how many people plan to read one over the other (or both)??
Wow, you read that so quickly! Is it not very long? Still haven't started Tropical Gangsters, but hopefully get to make a start this weekend...
no, it's not long. it is under 200 pages. i need to go buy a copy of Tropical Gangsters. it doesn't seem to exist in any library i have access to and there is no e-version. :(
Oh, well, I guess that means that hardly anyone will join us in reading 'Tropical Gangsters'... ah well. :)
It's supposed to exist! It's lost at work. I don't know why the public library doesn't have it. :(
ah well, I'll certainly give it a go some time very soon! ;)
I've got both books waiting for me at the university library and will pick them up Tuesday. Can't wait to get started!
What struck me most when reading Tropical Gangsters was how "personal" Guinean politics were and how much the lacked institutionalized mechanisms for getting things done. Incredibly fragile. I know the same personal politics are at play in any political system - America's included; but, with such a small cadre of folks holding onto power in Equatorial Guinea, the personalities really come to the forefront.Taylor
Taylor wrote: "What struck me most when reading Tropical Gangsters was how "personal" Guinean politics were and how much the lacked institutionalized mechanisms for getting things done. Incredibly fragile. I kno..."i'm really excited to get started on this book. i really hope i'm able to get it today. I saw in your introduction over at the welcome thread that you have a background in political and economics matters...is that correct? based on your experiences in the countries you've been to, do you think Klitgaard's account rang true?
I got it! but not at the bookstore. i managed to get an e-version that i had mistakenly thought did not exist. i read the author's Preface and started Chapter 1 last night. I like that it has maps. I also think it is very readable, so now i'm doubly excited about it.
Marieke,Yes, I have a background in politics and economics. I'm personally very interested in the political economy of developing states, so Africa is a bit of a passion. I don't know that I could equate the countries I've been to to Equatorial Guinean politics, per se - indeed, each African country is unique in their own way. That said, what Klitgaard observed in Equatorial Guinea makes sense given the nature of personal rule in the state.
What about yourself? Have you made it to the continent? Does this mesh with your observations?
Taylor
Marieke wrote: "Taylor wrote: "What struck me most when reading Tropical Gangsters was how "personal" Guinean politics were and how much the lacked institutionalized mechanisms for getting things done. Incredibly ..."
Taylor wrote: "Marieke,Yes, I have a background in politics and economics. I'm personally very interested in the political economy of developing states, so Africa is a bit of a passion. I don't know that ..."
i've only been to egypt. i tagged along while my husband attended a workshop on digitizing arabic for work. so i wasn't in a situation in any way that would allow me to think about egypt's situation this way.
i "got into Africa" quite by accident. i have to read extensively about it for work and write about it (yes, it makes me a little uncomfortable since i don't get to travel there) so i really like meeting Africans and people with strong connections to the continent. vicariously through my father i have an attachment to kenya and like to pay attention to the goings-on there. his wife worked there for a couple of years but he was already retired. they made some very good kenyan friends, some of whom i have met, but sadly (for me) i did not get the opportunity to visit them while they were living there.
equatorial guinea is rather unexplored territory for me so i've been quite excited for this tour stop. i'm not sure if you noticed, but we have a thread dedicated to the question of foreign aid to africa here at GAR...i posted a link to Tropical Gangsters and a link to this discussion. i really liked how Klitgaard asked, "what would you do if you were me?" so i'm really curious to see if anyone would like to answer that question! :D
I've read the first couple of chapters and I'd just like to say Klitgaard is quite an interesting chap! he also seems to have a knack for figuring out how people/systems work. I'm also really enjoying the more "personal" parts of his story...his penchant for surfing and his musicality. this book has everything!
I'm about half way through Klitgaard and I agree with Marieke that his personality really makes the book readable. I also like his design for workshops on economic strategies.
I do appreciate that over the course of the book he becomes more aware of why the people are always questioning the motives behind any generous act. It's because they've been used by so many advisors and donors before. "It's not paranoia if everyone really is out to get you."
I have gotten horribly behind here. Although I have Tropical Gangsters and Shadows of your Back memory, I am still reading No one Sleeps... which I find fascinating at this point due to the historical context and picture into the lives of people in another country at another time in history. I am enjoying the commentary, however, as you all plunge ahead of me.
i'm falling behind as well, Mary...i was enjoying Tropical Gangsters a lot but i had to set it aside to get some other things taken care of. and i haven't started to reread No One Sleeps yet, either, so on that one YOU are ahead of ME. :Di'm glad to hear you are still reading it; i know of another member who intends to get to it soon so i think that thread will pick up in activity again. :D
It was interesting to read "Tropical Gangsters" followed by "Shadows" as Klitgaard is much more descriptive of the setting. So his background helped me fill out "Shadows." There seem to be a lot of African novels that feature the theme of leaving home and tradition to join the "white" world, but I think this one is interesting because the narrator's parents, while devout Catholics and somewhat westernized, encourage the narrator's association with his uncle and also actively promote his going through the traditional circumcision ceremony. It's hard to tell if the narrator's interpretation that his father is really a "spy" within white culture is correct or if that's a way for him to explain all the contradictions to himself. He wants his father to not really believe it all, as he doesn't really believe it all.
Andrea wrote: "It was interesting to read "Tropical Gangsters" followed by "Shadows" as Klitgaard is much more descriptive of the setting. So his background helped me fill out "Shadows." There seem to be a lot ..."Andrea, i could totally echo your thoughts here. i am planning to finish Tropical Gangsters this weekend and will elaborate based on my own little notes...
i really liked this pairing of books. it worked so well and now a country with which i had absolutely no familiarity...is not so unknown to me...yay!
For one thing, not only do i know nothing about Equatorial Guinea, but i know almost nothing about modern Spanish history. I know who Franco was, but that is about it. I'm a bit confused about fascism...fascism is okay with religion? is that the case? unlike communism?