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How rude is it not to tip? >> the most disgusting thread in Goodreads.>> nurses win.
message 101:
by
Malcolm
(new)
Feb 19, 2011 01:35PM
I meant in that comment to Harry, if the owner is prepared to pay cheaply for his staff then logic suggests that he also may well be prepared to pay cheaply for foodstock and wines :o)
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Malcolm, it is not "dodgy holes" that pay less than half the minimum wage, it is the American standard. It is not illegal, nobody is going to close down restaurants for doing so, and it's been that way for a very long time here. Do what you like in Europe, but count yourself very lucky that you're not over here doling out that pretentious, pompous, patronizing advice in place of a cash tip. Also count yourself lucky that no one has "accidentally" dumped a full pitcher of ice water on your lap.
Jammies wrote: "Malcolm, it is not "dodgy holes" that pay less than half the minimum wage, it is the American standard. It is not illegal, nobody is going to close down restaurants for doing so, and it's been tha..."Well I can't speak for the rest of Europe, but in Britain there is a legal minimum wage. Anyone paying below that if caught would get prosecuted and probably get shut down. It is exploitative. Also, it is likely that it is staffed by welfare claimants signing on for unemployment benefits and illegal immigrants.
If Americans emloyees expect to make tax-free quick bucks from British tourists to suppliment the pittance they are paid then I am sorry but they'd be very lucky to get even a dime from this brother.
Not tax free. They withhold tax based upon the amount of sales.
Surely the question of this debate should be how rude is it to expect a tip?
Surely the question of this debate should be why is Malcolm trolling this thread?
Larry wrote: "Not tax free. They withhold tax based upon the amount of sales."Not only that, the IRS requires that income tax be paid based on the amount of sales, whether or not the tips came to the expected percentage.
Speaking on behalf of American food and beverage service workers, Malcolm, stay home.
iBritt wrote: "Surely the question of this debate should be why is Malcolm trolling this thread?"
Britt, I love you.
Jammies wrote: "Larry wrote: "Not tax free. They withhold tax based upon the amount of sales."Not only that, the IRS requires that income tax be paid based on the amount of sales, whether or not the tips came..."
I didn't realize that you were supposed to tip at McDonald's. Why don't you American fast food & beverage service workers do as Marshall Mathers and learn to rap? For a former American fast food & beverage service worker he's done rather well for himself.
I didn't realize the extent of your fine dining experience was at McDonald's. That is a minimum wage job because it doesn't involve waiting tables or busing them.
My knowledge of McDonald's extends only to the tv adverts and Eminem.
America seems confusing. You mean it pays more to work at McDonald's on minimum wage than it does to work at an upmarket resturant on half minimum wage?If my understanding of this is correct then McDonald's has just shot up in my estimation.
Please try to explain the concept of minimum wage and half minimum wage to me.
Over here minimum wage is the lowest one can earn legally. It is barely enough to live on. One would have to work at at least two minimum wage jobs to exist (one of them part-time, I suppose).
One simply could not live here on half the legal minimum wage. One would have to sell drugs or do serious crime to get by.
Indeed, it is against the law to pay an employee anything below the legal minimum wage.
So I hope you understand my confusion.
The restaurants are allowed to pay less, I assume, because they are assholes with a strong political lobby. Fuckers.
Mod
As far as I'm aware, the restaurant industry is the only industry that is permitted to pay less than minimum wage.
One cannot live in America on half the minimum wage, either. That's why we tip.
Lobstergirl wrote: "I don't completely understand why restaurants can pay half minimum wage. But the fact that they do means that the bulk of a server's income comes from tips. I'm guessing, though I don't know, nev..."Thanks. So it's a sort of modern day Jim Crow law but only for resturant workers? - they all get equal pay but it is seperate (i.e. half) of what everyone else gets?
Obama needs to sort that shit out now.
Mod
The server is still required to be paid the prevailing minimum wage - HOWEVER tips are part of your pay as well. So if you are paid less than minimum - your total take home must be at least minimum wage (before deductions) or your employer must make up the difference. For most servers, they end up making more than minimum wage (per hour) with tips included.
Working for tips is a lot like working for commissions. Commission employees (like car salesmen, real estate agenty, jewelry sales people) often make no base salary and rely only on commissions for their pay. Likewise a server gets a small base wage and tips make up the difference of their pay.
In the U.S. all but six states allow tip credit.
Mod
Lobstergirl wrote: "Okay, google to the rescue. Turns out servers do not actually earn less than the minimum wage.The server is still required to be paid the prevailing minimum wage - HOWEVER tips are part of your..."
Thanks. That would be the six richest and not the six poorest ststes I presume?
Mod
Aw hell. I'll just post this whole thing.
Federal Minimum Wage
1. The federal minimum wage for restaurant servers and other employees who receive tips is $2.13 as of 2011. To qualify for the reduced minimum, servers must receive at least $30 in tips monthly. Servers must average $5.12 per hour in tips for every hour they work to bring them up to the federal minimum wage of $7.25. If the server does not average the federal minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference.
States Without Tip Credit Allowance
2. Seven states do no allow businesses to pay servers less than the state minimum wage. Employers in Alaska, California, Oregon and Washington must pay servers the state minimum wage for other occupations. In Minnesota, small employers -- those with annual receipts that are less than $625,000 -- can pay servers $5.25 per hour. Businesses in Montana with annual sales of less than $110,000 can pay servers $4 per hour and in Nevada, businesses that provide health benefits can pay servers $7.25 per hour.
States with No Minimum Wage
3. Five states have no set minimum wage. Alabama, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee follow the federal law and have not set their own minimum wage laws. Georgia has a state law but exempts tipped employees from coverage, so servers in Georgia make the federal minimum wage.
State Minimums Plus $.50
4. Some states apply a tip credit if the wages combined with tips equals at least $.50 more than the state minimum wage. In Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Nebraska, New Jersey, North Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Virginia and Wyoming the minimum wage for servers is the same as the federal minimum but if tips plus the hourly wage do not average at least $.50 more than the state minimum, employers must pay the state minimum wage for other occupations.
States That Allow Tip Credit
5. The remaining states allow tip credit but have a higher minimum wage for servers than the federal government. Server minimums range from $2.23 in Delaware to $7 in Hawaii. Colorado and Delaware specify that servers must make more than $30 in tips monthly to qualify for a lower minimum wage than the state standard. In Colorado and Hawaii, servers must make more than $20 monthly in tips and in Connecticut, full-time employees must make more than $10 weekly in tips and part-time servers must make at least $2 per day in tips to qualify for a lower minimum wage.
http://www.ehow.com/info_7885173_labo...
Mod
Lobstergirl wrote: "Yeah that's what I thought."Thanks. Does the following mean that the wage is $2.13 per hour?
The federal minimum
wage for restaurant servers
and other employees who
receive tips is $ 2 .13 as of
2011.
$2.13 USD = £1 . 31093 GBPI think our legal minimum wage here is around £6 per hour, maybe fractionally less but certainly above £5
Mod
Minimum wage in the U.S. is currently $7.25. States can set their own state minimum wage higher. E.g. in Massachusetts it's $8.00. In Vermont it's $8.06. In Illinois it's $8.25.
Lobstergirl wrote: "$2.13 is the special minimum wage for tipped employees only.Minimum wage in the U.S. is currently $7.25. States can set their own state minimum wage higher. E.g. in Massachusetts it's $8.00. I..."
Cool. I'm slowly understanding it but it is confusing tho. I don't understand why all states don't have the same laws. I understand why historically but not latter-day. It would be like each county here having differing laws. No one would stand for it.
Mod
We have a national minimum wage. But in poorer areas such as northern England, parts of Scotland and Wales there are regional differences in the cost of living.
Okay, question: what's the point of this argument?
To me, laws taxing the tips of workers in the service industries are unjust morally. Judging by what has been said here earlier, it obviously breeds discontent amongst at least resturant staff and pizza delivery people causing spite and envy if they don't get tipped. And I imagine the tips one could expect in hotels and upmarket resturants in places such as Las Vegas, Palm Springs, Hollywood and the Hamptons are out of proportion to less well-heeled or tourist areas.The attitude of 'if you can't afford to tip then you shouldn't dine out' is crass.
Some people of poor means may have to save for a special anniversary or birthday meal and literally cannot really afford to tip all and sundry they encounter on the way and returning from the restaurant on top of the meal - e.g. taxis etc.
It's a similar logic to someone who may not be flushed with money, has to work hard and save for that home pc, television, sofa etc, pay for it at the shop and then fork out again with a five or ten dollar tip when it is delivered. Some may have to scrimp and save generally just to raise their family.
It's like a shoe shop assistant or grocer/baker etc expecting to be tipped every time a parent buys new shoes for its child growing in size and age or bring home the bacon and put bread on the table.
Now, if you were in the entertainment industry ok you would be expected to tip, but then you get an awful lot of perks and freebies simply for knocking out some hideous pop song, starring in some dire cliche-ridden soap opera or action flick or mincing down a catwalk or playing a sport.
Malcolm, please go make moral judgments about your own country's laws, mmkay? And count your blessings you aren't dependant on tips to survive.
I think similar applies to my own country with regards to taxing tips. However the same applies. It is wrong. Those working in the more affluent end of their trade can earn quite handsome tips which their counterpart collegues in less affluent areas perhaps get the probable amount of tips possible before tax considerations.Just because someone could earn x amount in tips doesn't mean that the necessarily do and it is unjust of breauracy to tax or set rates of pay according to theses principles especially when in well paid other trades and professions where tips are sometimes accepted are not, to say nothing of the inducements and backhanded bribes theses other well paid tradespeople and professionals can expect to make on the side.
And if anyone knows how easy it is to be offered and possibly accept/refuse an inducement, bribe or backhander then it is those who set the minimum wage levels in the first place.
LG's informative postings have given me a more sympathetic attitude towards service workers.
However, you jammie, are undoing all her calm and rational good work.
Mod
**yawns**
Jammies wrote: "Malcolm... Also count yourself lucky that no one has "accidentally" dumped a full pitcher of ice water on your lap. "I would bet big money that it has happened, Jammies!
Impulses like that are why I wouldn't last a
I frequently say that is why I could never cut hair. Do not anger me when I have scissors!Should I tip for a massage that is just the one person running her business in her house? I mean, I know she has overhead, and if it were a spa I would. But she sets the price, so I'm confused.
Ok, thanks! I received gift certificates and tipped her when using them. So she took those tips, but now I will be paying for the massages myself. I might not be able to ask..then I'll just pretend the price is $60.
just went to the movies with my dad and youngest son (the eagle) anywho i paid for movies ($27) and my dad bought dinner ($34). he left a $5 tip. as we were leaving i slipped a fin on the table when he wasn't looking bringing the tip total up to $10. question: is it ok to trump someone's tip to bring it up to correct amount?
answer: as long as they don't see you do it.
I do that too, Bunny. IF I know the person doesn't tip as much as I would. My husband's aunt took us out to dinner recently and she WAY undertipped. My husband pretended he forgot his phone and ran back inside. It's really scary, though because if you get caught it's soooooo baaaaad.
all good advice. i am sure my dad who is 70 just thinks that $5 is a good tip. my son who is a server at a nice restaurant busted me on doing this but he said he is glad i did. i waited til dad turned around and just flipped it on the table on the way out. i am sure he didn't see me but i don't want the very good waitress thinking we are cheap
I used to stay back whenever we went out to eat with my SIL and husband. They sometimes never left any tip. I was never sure why. They are quite generous tippers now.
Mod
What about places that add in a tip automatically?
Mod
LG - well, in my dad's situation to me it is not worth embarrassing him or the awkward confrontation about it. i agree. maybe i could send him an email with a story on low tipping :)
Lobstergirl wrote: "Why is everyone so concerned about being seen leaving a second tip? If the tipper really is egregiously undertipping, shouldn't they be told? ..."The last situation I was in was a bit different. The tipper was mad because part of our order was forgotten. It took a while after everyone else had their food. The waitress probably didn't handle it correctly to begin with, but I felt she did her best to make it up the rest of the way. The person paying didn't leave any tip at all. Not being sure if the food situation was her fault or the kitchens, I circled back and left her a few bucks anyways.
Spouse and I went to a popular Center City Philadelphia restaurant (The Greenhouse) for our anniversary one year, expecting a full-service, fine dining experience. Then Mayor Ed Rendell was there with a large group who happened to have the same server that we had.The large group got all of the server's attention, leaving us waiting for things quite often, and with no acknowledgement of the obviously bad service in a very expensive place.
After we got the bill, I went to see the manager, and complained about the experience. Suddenly, the server appeared and was very apologetic. The manager suggested not leaving a tip -- but I insisted that the entire event was ruined because she had not managed the service well. When I said we would never return, she said, "I understand (and don't care)."
My point is that sometimes the relative potential for gratuities might cause an imbalance in effort that should be attended to by management.
And no, I didn't stiff the waiter. I wanted to stiff the manager, though.
