7. HF - THE FIRST MAN IN ROME - THE SIXTH YEAR (504 - 587) (10/18/10 - 10/24/10) ~ No spoilers, please

[Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief]

Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the historical fiction discussion of THE FIRST MAN IN ROME
by Colleen McCullough.

This is the reading assignment for week seven - (Oct 18th, 2010 to Oct 24th, 2010)

Week 7 - Oct 18 - 24: p 504 – 587 The Sixth Year

This is the third historical fiction group selected book.

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers if you are catching up.

This book was kicked off on September 6th; but we are now entering the seventh week of discussion

This discussion is being led by assisting moderator - Alisa. She has done an amazing job with the Supreme Court and civil rights threads and this is her first venture in moderating an historical fiction book and she is very excited to be doing this. Please support her in this effort.

We always enjoy the participation of all group members. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, but this is not available on Kindle or audible.

This thread opens up Monday, October 18th for discussion. Although, Alisa may open this thread up earlier due to her different time zone. This is a non spoiler thread.

Welcome,

~Bentley


TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

by Colleen McCullough

Alisa is using the current version available to her as follows:



Please feel free to research the complete Table of Contents and Syllabus on this thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...

[Alisa]

News of the Germans spilling into upper Italy has once again reaches Rome. Consul Gnaeus Mallius is given a head count army and marches north to meet them. Caepio, still in Gaul, is asked by the Senate to join forces with Mallius's army when they meet on the Rhodanus River. Caepio, insulted and disgusted that he must give up command to a New Man, flatly refuses to give up command and sends a request to the Senate that he should be put in command of the united army. The Senate refuses to honor this request and sends six senators of a lower order north to make sure the earlier command is followed. Caepio, still insistent that he will not take orders from a New Man, makes his camp to the north of Mallius's, leaving the army divided.

After an attempt to persuade the Germans to leave, the divided army is totally annihilated by the German hordes in less than an hour. Caepio escapes before he is killed, joining up with his son who has fled the battle dishonorably. They both race back to Rome to make sure their side of the story is heard. Amid the slaughter, several Romans still live. Sextus Caesar, though injured, still lives. The sons of Metellus and General Mallius are also injured. Marcus Aurelius, another survivor, races back to Rome by boat to beat Caepio, committed to making sure the Romans hear the truth about the disaster. Aurelius does beat Caepio back to Rome and tells Rufus his story before Rufus addresses the Senate. They both tell the Senate of what has happened and Rufus proposes to the Senate that Marius and his army, the only ones who can defend Rome, are recalled to Rome and that his named are entered into the upcoming consular election in absentia.


Marius returns to Italy a consul. Caepio barely avoids treason charges, but his son-in-law Drusus is still trying to hold Caepio to some account. Marius, realizing that the head-count army needs more incentive to serve, decides to have the Senate allocate land in Africa for head-count veterans. He bribes a tribune, Phillipus, to introduce the first part of a bill to lead to this change. Several senators, fearing that Drusus is becoming too radical, believe that if they give him the title of Ponitfex Maximus he will become more conservative. The chapter ends with Marius preparing for war against the Germans.

[Alisa]

This segment kicks off with a lively to and from between Caepio and Mallius Maximus. I am having a hard time discerning the fight among the Romans from the battle they are preparing for with the Germans.

[Bryan]

Caepio is a piece of work; the fight is a nice microcosm of what is going on at the higher level of power with Marius' reforms and being a new man. I could image the anger Cotta must have felt: two armies on the field and they won't converge.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

Caepio seems to embody the attitude of some of the ruling class towards New Men, or indeed, any change in the way things are run. It's amazing Rome survived with such incompetent generals.

[Alisa]

Seriously makes you wonder how they survived, doesn't it? Part of it I ascribe to the Italian and Roman propensity for drama but this goes beyond that I think. Geez!

[Garret]

“The offspring of riches: Pride, vanity, ostentation, arrogance, tyranny”

Mark Twain

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

It's even more amazing that they could find men to fill the ranks, given how many were wiped out by the Germans. Although they did have to reach down into the Head Count, but the Italians said they didn't even have any Head Count.

[Alisa]

I don't doubt the numbers but were there that many people in Italy? It seems like they are going through an awful lot of men, particularly in this conflict with the Germans. Dipping into the Head Count is a new source of course...maybe I am stuck with an idea in my head that there were not this many people at the time.

[Bryan]

The numbers probably fluctuate a lot since there doesn't seem to be an accurate count. It could be hundreds of thousands in Rome itself, but for the empire, it seems to be in the millions.

Here is a site:
http://www.unrv.com/empire/roman-popu...

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I really liked Sulla's meeting his children for the first time and falling in love with them. It shows a real human side of him that we haven't seen before.

Also I thought his comment about himself, that he was "the actor between parts, never a truly comfortable creature" was spot on.

[Bryan]

I agree Vicki, it was actually quite heart warming, and they seem to adore him.

His wife, wow, things are really turning bad. I wondered if she would be Sulla's next victim. However, his situation now is a little different, but I don't think that would stop him. He is crafty.

[Alisa]

Hard to imagine that marraige was going to save Julilla from herself. She is on a path of self-destruction, we'll just have to see if Sulla gets to her first.

It was nice to see his kids embrace him. I doubt he has had much unconditional love in his life, this may be it.

[Karol]

I am continuing to find the working friendship between Sulla and Marius intriguing, along with Sulla's realization that he is playing a role - one that he expects Julilla to play as well.

I also enjoy the long letters from Rutilius Rufus - his voice is a bit gossipy, but really brings the situations to life for me. I wish more of the story was told in this style. On the one hand, the author can be praised for the research that is behind all of the carefully detailed descriptions - but on the other hand, the pace was slow enough for me in this section that it was hard to slog through parts of it.

[Alisa]

I have a mixed view on the letters from Rutilius Rufus. One the one hand, I do enjoy his colorful and conversational style, but on the other hand there are almost too many of them in the bookfor my taste, and sometimes it seems to drag on a bit. I do find them interesting though.

[Vicki, Assisting Moderator - Ancient Roman History]

I really like them. And without them, you'd have to have rather dry exposition telling what was happening in Rome while Marius and Sulla are off fighting wars. The little tidbits Rufus tells about don't really fit into the stories about the other main characters like Aurelia and Livia.