Writing Historical Fiction discussion
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Introductions
Hi, Faith, yes it's already available on amazon.co UK site now and will be out in USA on amazon.com from 6 March.
I'll pick it up then. I don't quite know how to get into amazon.com in the UK. My book's supposed to be available in the UK, but I don't know how to check.
Thank you, Harry. I assumed that Amazon got it sent over there, but it's nice to be able to see it. Not that I'm at all cynical or anything.
Hello, all, I just thought I would post an intro. I have not yet been published, so I am sort of a newbie at this. I have been writing and reading historical fiction since I was twelve and indeed, I don't know if I could write anything else. History inspires me more than anything I can think if. I am particularly drawn to early British and European history, what my kids like to jokingly refer to as "the sword age". I am currently working on a novel set in the tenth century in Kiev and Constantinople. I was very excited to find this group of people who are specifically interested in HF, because it is a genre that demands different considerations than other fiction writing. I am trying to weave my story around a backdrop of events that really happened and it can be frustrating when I feel blocked, because I can't change the facts to fir the plot, but must change the plot to fit the facts. LOL.
Anyway, I am delighted to be here and I hope I am able to contribute and to learn a lot from you folks!!
Welcome to the group. I hope you'll find some helpful suggestions here. You novel sounds fascinating and you're right changing the plot to fit the existing conditions is a pain.
Welcome Wintersunlight! (wish we had some of that in Scotland at the moment - it's very dreich)You've pinpointed one of the drawbacks of writing HF - the facts! But I take on board what a journalist once said "I never let the facts get in the way of a good story."
Hi everyone! I'm new, also, to this group, and not been on Goodreads for all that long either. Like a lot of others, I have always loved history and a good historical novel. Growing up, my favorite periods were Roman and anything British. I always had it in the back of my mind that I would like to write a novel, but never wanted to cover ground already done by authors I admired. I never thought I could do as well as they did.But then about a dozen years ago I discovered the Byzantines and they have become a serious preoccupation. Fortunately, there haven't been too many novels written about that civilization, and most are from the perspective of western Europeans. My novel takes place in mid-11th century Byzantium, chronicling the rise of the Comnene dynasty.
Its great to find a group interested in writing historical fiction!
The Authors’ Licensing and Collecting Society have just sent me £74 worth of remittances from institutions world wide that have photocopied bits of my historical novel ‘Tom Fleck’. I got about the same last year. I’d love to know why it’s copied – is it for Creative Writing Courses, as an example of poetic prose or as illustration of excessive use of the semi-colon?Whatever – it is a bit more than sales of the book bring in.
Harry wrote: "The Authors’ Licensing and Collecting Society have just sent me £74 worth of remittances from institutions world wide that have photocopied bits of my historical novel ‘Tom Fleck’. I got about the ..."Try googling yourself or your book. Wade through what pops up. I was blown away at how many places and things noted by book. No money came my way, dang it, but many genealogy sites,a town's community page, and a lot of indie book lists I did not approach personally,found their way to my website because of of the book.
Steven wrote: "Harry wrote: "The Authors’ Licensing and Collecting Society have just sent me £74 worth of remittances from institutions world wide that have photocopied bits of my historical novel ‘Tom Fleck’. I ..."Thanks, Steven - I'll try what you suggest.
I see on your profile you have an interest in Buddhism; I lead a small study group here in Yorkshire. We are working through one of Bhikkhu Bodhi's renditions of the Pali canon, 'In the Buddha's Words', just now. Bodhi is quite a scholar.
Harry wrote: "Steven wrote: "Harry wrote: "The Authors’ Licensing and Collecting Society have just sent me £74 worth of remittances from institutions world wide that have photocopied bits of my historical novel ..."I envy you two things; time to study dharma and living in Yorkshire. I do still sit as well as practicing Qigong and Tai Chi. And Bodhi's scholarship - well, there are no words and I guess there shouldn't be.
'Hope I was helpful.
There was a great article in yesterday's Wall Street Journal about a book
by a Goodreads author and how he achieved success by publishing through Amazon and using the connections he built up on Goodreads. It has a lot of information that could prove helpful to aspiring authors.
The title was "Sci-Fi's Underground Hit".
Hello! I am Amelia from Providence, Rhode Island. I am new to Goodreads. Your group interests me because while I self-published a novel several years ago and am presently completely another manuscript, my next is intended to be historical fiction. My storyline is far from complete and this is due to the fact that my research is rather preliminary. I am drawing ideas from the rich history of Colonial Providence with the influences of religious freedom, the expansion of merchantilism, influences of artists such as Poe and, of course, the presence of the slave trade. I have a lot of work to do and welcome your guidance. I look forward to being a member of this group!
Greetings Amelia. The background to your story reads as rich and complex. By contrast, today, I'm fussing over the price of herrings on a Tudor market stall. The realms we inhabit!
Amelia wrote: "Hello! I am Amelia from Providence, Rhode Island. I am new to Goodreads. Your group interests me because while I self-published a novel several years ago and am presently completely another manus..."On the influences of religious freedom, you might check out the first chapters of Freethinkers: a History of American Secularism by Susan Jacoby. It has its own bias, of course, but I think you'll get a lot of information about the times -- though not necessarily specific to Providence.
Thank you for this reference. I will most definitely check it out. I really enjoy getting lost in the research. The problem is that it can suggest so many different and varied story lines!
Hello, I was very excited to find this group on goodreads. I've just released a historical fiction novel (Nobilissima) on Amazon and am working on the sequel. I really enjoy doing the research on the period - Ancient Rome, 410 to 450 AD - and hope to find some fellow students/enthusiasts of that time.Carrie
Carrie wrote: "Hello, I was very excited to find this group on goodreads. I've just released a historical fiction novel (Nobilissima) on Amazon and am working on the sequel. I really enjoy doing the research o..."I checked it out on Amazon. It's about Galla Placidia (sp?). So have you been to Ravenna, to see her mausoleum? It is supposed to have some magnificent mosaics.
I will have to pick this book up once I finish my current book. You should check out the Ancient & Medieval Historic Fiction group, as well. A lot of the authors of the books that are picked to be read each month participate in the discussions.
Hi, I'm Derek Birks and I write historical fiction set in the fifteenth century. My debut novel, Feud, is set in the Wars of the Roses. I write fast paced historical action. I don't give my characters a lot of time for introspection. I'm planning a series of stories based around the exploits of the fictional family introduced in Feud. The second book is due out this summer. I read a great deal of historical fiction, mainly Medieval and Roman.
Hello Guys n Girls,my name is Robert Lofthouse, and Im just getting to grips with the whole 'Goodreads'craze.
My debut Falklands War novel 'A Cold Night in June' is now out in the big, horrible world of Amazon.
Feedback and general reviews welcome, since it is my first shot at the title, so there is bound to be a few rough edges to chip off. Thank you.
Wow, so many new participants! Good to have fresh ideas and perspectives. I know we'd love to hear about how you came to writing historical fiction, editors/agents you might have worked with, and tools or resources you used in writing your book that others might find helpful.Welcome!
Been a member for awhile, but I've not been an active reviewer of books despite my large library of history books, but I do love talking about writing HF and write Civil War HF on a seven book series (planned at least) with two out.
Eileen wrote: "I know we'd love to hear about ... tools or resources you used in writing your book that others might find helpful."When writing a historical spy thriller set in Prussia in 1747, I found far more useful information in the German version of Wikipedia than in the English version.
For example, the entry on Potsdam at en.wikipedia.org is about 8 pages on my screen, whereas the German version at de.wikipedia.org is 24 pages long. Also, the English version has 6 references; the German version has 63, many of which proved to be extremely useful detailed sources of information.
In addition, the German version of Wikipedia has entries that do not appear in the English Wikipedia, probably because the topics are of interest only to people who live in Germany or who write historical fiction set in what is now Germany.
Steve wrote: "Eileen wrote: "I know we'd love to hear about ... tools or resources you used in writing your book that others might find helpful."When writing a historical spy thriller set in Prussia in 1747, I..."
Excellent suggestion!
Hi,My name is Constance Hampton Jones and I forced myself through the millstone of Indie-publishing as I had no patience to wait for an agent or a publisher to like my books enough. Yes, a millstone.
It all proved to be a lot harder than I anticipated when I happily put my first book on Amazon-Kindle in 2011. The book I put in it first is now novel #4 of the series. Imagine I put on 7 now after lots of re-edits and changes. Good reviews as well as bad helped me to struggle on.
I only joined Goodreads as a writer one week ago in my quest to get people to know me, although I worked hard to get my social networking done already.
Some writer said that Indie-authors are lazy people. I don't think she got that right. Indie writers must do everything themselves: website, promotion, social media, marketing and last but not least writing.
Sometimes I tend to think I should have done the seek-thy-agent routine. Then I could spend a lot more time to writing. My number 8 novel manuscript lies there untouched since about half a year, because I keep on inventing wheels all the time. And you know what? In the end I would not have wanted it in an other way.
I'm helping out other people now, who want to publish but don't have a clue how to create their own blog, website, photo's and manuscript for self-publishing.
I'm not sure if I am allowed to add my own books here, so I wont until you tell me it's okay. (I hurt my nose badly when I seemed to promote in other groups.)
As Ior said in Winnie-the-Pooh: thanks for noticing me.
The lazy meme is tired and begging to be laid to rest, but it is just as much work to write HF as an independent as it is for the trad circles. Glad to see that you are helping others and have taken the bull by the horns to get your stories out.
I am Virginia Williams, the granddaughter of Stanley McShane, pen name of Patrick John Rose. My grandfather wrote numerous manuscripts, short stories, and poems along with paintings he left for inclusion into his manuscripts. Having kept the trunk filled with his works for more than 50 years, I finally discovered self-publishing and published three of his sea adventures (written in the late 1920's) in 2012. I am currently working on another manuscript hoping to have out next month. I am part of the local Idaho Author Community and discovering that promotion and marketing is a full time job. Good thing I'm retired! :)
Just checking in to see who is still here--there are a few names familiar from 2011. Reading most of the previous entries to catch up was challenging; so here's a challenge for you. Try writing in second person for a while to give the old ego a rest.
Petunia wrote: "Just checking in to see who is still here--there are a few names familiar from 2011. Reading most of the previous entries to catch up was challenging; so here's a challenge for you. Try writing in ..."There doesn't seem to be a lot of activity in this group. Maybe we are all too busy writing to focus on the group!
It would be good to hear from other historical fiction writers, to see what their challenges are and how they are dealing with them.
Okay, I'm game. I've been researching the people connected with the English attempting to establish a colony at Roanoke in the 1580s. I want to write a novel that focuses a lot on the Algonquian tribe that was most directly affected. Trouble is that there isn't a lot of information about them for me to feel comfortable about portraying a female character that fits both the particular native American culture and that has the creative/intellectual urge to learn more and achieve something beyond what the culture allows. And then there is the problem of male author attempting to communicate what a female character thinks and feels. Pretty soon I'll have to start writing and see what happens.
Harold wrote: "Okay, I'm game. I've been researching the people connected with the English attempting to establish a colony at Roanoke in the 1580s. I want to write a novel that focuses a lot on the Algonquian ..."Some of Diana Gabaldon's books (the Outlander series) take place in North Carolina, and she mentioned the Algonquians a couple of times (I noticed it because I work in northern Virginia and pass by an Algonquian Parkway each day). Have you read
1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus? There was a lot about native Americans, as well as America, in there that I had not known before. I have the feeling that most of the native Americans in that part of the country had either died from smallpox, measles or some other disease by the 18th century, which may explain the dearth of information.
You may just have to take information from a related tribe that was more successful at surviving.
As for being a male writing from the female POV, David Liss did it in The Whiskey Rebels and I think that all of C.W. Gortner's books take the female POV. You might check out how they did it.
Thank you, Eileen, for your helpful suggestions. What little that has been written about North Carolina tribes are in reports to Sir Walter Raleigh written by Englishmen who participated in the colonial attempts, the best written by the scientist Thomas Hariot. I'll check out the books that you've suggested. You're right about those tribes being decimated by disease and settler encroachment by the 18th Century. Also thanks for suggesting the books that take the female point of view.
Harold wrote: "Thank you, Eileen, for your helpful suggestions. What little that has been written about North Carolina tribes are in reports to Sir Walter Raleigh written by Englishmen who participated in the c..."Re: The Whiskey Rebels, it has two POV characters and the first one in the book is male. The book annoyed me a bit at first, to the point where I almost stopped reading, but then I kept at it and really loved it by the end.
Good luck with your research. It can be challenging, and fun, to discover a time and place that has not gotten a lot of attention.
L.W. wrote: "Petunia wrote: "Just checking in to see who is still here--there are a few names familiar from 2011. Reading most of the previous entries to catch up was challenging; so here's a challenge for you...."Goodreads is great for getting to know folks who share an interest in a particular genre. You might try the Historical Fictionistas group, too. I'm not sure if there is one devoted to 20th century history, but you could always start one.
Who published your book?
L.W. wrote: "Eileen wrote: "L.W. wrote: "Petunia wrote: "Just checking in to see who is still here--there are a few names familiar from 2011. Reading most of the previous entries to catch up was challenging; so..."You can help get your book out there with the Goodreads giveaways and by participating in groups that have an interest in the period or genre you are writing about - tactfully bringing up your book when the conversation goes in that direction.
Getting readers when you are self published seems to be a painfully slow process, and you do have to work at it, but the payoffs can be significant. One writer whose done well at it is Robert Bidinotto. He writes thrillers and self-published on Amazon, with only good things to say about it. You can check out his website. He has a lot of good suggestions.
Eileen wrote: "It would be good to hear from other historical fiction writers, to see what their challenges are and how they are dealing with them. ..."I've just finished writing a historical spy thriller set in World War II co-authored by my wife. The central figure is a Nazi spy, a woman named Gretchen Konrad. I found that having a woman co-author helped me immensely to understand our character.
Our publisher/editor (who gets the final manuscript next week) is also a woman. It will be interesting to see how she feels about our joint portrayal of Gretchen.
Steve wrote: "Eileen wrote: "It would be good to hear from other historical fiction writers, to see what their challenges are and how they are dealing with them. ..."I've just finished writing a historical spy..."
That's a great suggestion when your POV character is of the opposite sex. Even if you don't have a co-author, having someone who can explain the other sex's reaction to a situation would be helpful.
Larry wrote: "... Do you have any style conflicts? ..."Between us, my wife and I have co-authored over a hundred scientific papers with other people, so we've learned how to publish a joint piece of work. The trick is that only one person does all the actual writing, the other researchers (and there have been as many as 10 co-authors on one paper) criticize and make suggestions. This process continues until all the co-authors are happy with the description of the results of the research project. And with only one writer, the resulting paper has a unified style.
That's how my wife and I wrote the World War Two spy thriller: We developed the plot together, I did the writing, and my wife told me what changes she wanted. Will we change roles for our next book? Possibly, but it worked well this way, and if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
My name is Pauline Montagna. I've self-published three books, two historical novels and a collection of contemporary short stories. My current project is a series on William Shakespeare and Christopher Marlowe. I've published the first volume, Not Wisely but Too Well, and expect it will take three more to complete the series I've called The Stuff of Dreams. Not Wisely has had some favourable reviews, but sales have been disappointing. I'm travelling in Europe at the moment, but though far from home, my writing still occupies my mind. I'm currently working on a marketing plan I've called The Stuff of Dreams Redux designed to pave the way for the release of the complete series in the, I dare hope, not too distant future. My website is at paulinemontagna.net. I look forward to contributing to the discussion.
Harold wrote: "Thank you, Eileen, for your helpful suggestions. What little that has been written about North Carolina tribes are in reports to Sir Walter Raleigh written by Englishmen who participated in the c..."So there's a discussion thread in the Ancient & Medieval Historical Fiction Group on the Lost Colony of Roanoke. They have mentioned a few books that have been written about it. You might find some helpful references in it.
Let me know if you can't find the thread.
I am working on my first historical novel, based in 17th century Italy (my first novel, "The Salome Effect" is present day). Does anyone have a suggestion for time-appropriate language? I don't suppose there is a "Writers Guide to English of the 17th Century" reference book out there. I am writing it in English and am emulating the usage/style of successful authors. Thanks for any advice!
James wrote: "I am working on my first historical novel, based in 17th century Italy (my first novel, "The Salome Effect" is present day). Does anyone have a suggestion for time-appropriate language? I don't s..."
That is a tough problem, and one that I share. I think it is more a matter of tone and not using anachronistic terms. Some writers seem to handle it well. Others, not so well. Stella Duffy, who wrote two books on Theodora sort of threw in the towel and just went with a modern tone, since there were several versions of Greek, Latin, and other stray languages that her characters would have spoken. Oddly enough, it usually worked.
Thank you Eileen. It is not simplistic at all. I have seen a similar suggestion before, but of course had forgotten about it. An excellent reminder. Thanks.
Larry wrote: "Eileen wrote: "James wrote: "I am working on my first historical novel, based in 17th century Italy (my first novel, "The Salome Effect" is present day). Does anyone have a suggestion for time-app..."
I know Sharon Kay Penman writes without contractions, so you may be right about that. Helen Hollick's book, Discovering the Diamond, recommends not using contractions in expository writing, but is ok with them in dialogue. Still, when writing dialogue it can sound odd without contractions.
Maybe I should try rewriting a chapter without contractions in the dialogue and see how it looks/sounds. I have looked at some of it and thought it wasn't quite right.
Eileen wrote: "...Helen Hollick's book, Discovering the Diamond, recommends not using contractions in expository writing, but is ok with them in dialogue. Still, when writing dialogue it can sound odd without contractions..."I agree on both counts. Contractions in expository writing give a modern flavor. And dialogue without contractions seems stilted.
#255Thanks again, Eileen. That is quite a list of novels about Roanoke. I'm enjoying reading how some of the authors have used the subject matter to create imaginative stories. As far as I've seen, so far nobody has done what I have in mind.
Harold wrote: "#255Thanks again, Eileen. That is quite a list of novels about Roanoke. I'm enjoying reading how some of the authors have used the subject matter to create imaginative stories. As far as I've s..."
Always best to have a fresh perspective!
Larry wrote: "Has anyone tried serializing your work? I remember as a kid that serials were very common. I have started to take a few pages per day and post them as a serial version on my blog, also looking at..."I wonder if that hasn't been tried on Amazon. Didn't the author of Wool Omnibus (Silo, #1), Hugh Howey, do that? The book has several parts to it and I think he sold them on Amazon in parts, until he had enough parts to do the Omnibus.
Writing Historical Fiction
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Your experience mirrors mine to a certain extent as I was brought up on the site of a historic battle in an area brimming with history - in Scotland. So much so that you intend to ta..."
I wish I could learn more about the history of the place where I grew up. I've got it back to homesteading, but that's only about a century and a half. I want to know more about the Pawnee on that site.