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How should we talk to children about race?
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hmmmm. i am really thinking about this as i don't want to give my normal goofy, flip opinion but instead be helpful. be right back....
I don't think you did anything wrong, but it's a good time to fix misconceptions that she does have. We teach children from a young age about "stranger danger" and it's easy enough to equate different with strange. Remember the "one of these things is not like the other" song from PBS (I can't remember if it was Mr. Rogers or Sesame Street)? That song works for kids because grouping things into categories is natural. So your daughter has made an assumption in her grouping. I wouldn't assume she's being narrow minded. She has seen a difference that probably isn't talked about much, because we tend to talk about sameness instead of difference.There's a children's book called "Let's Talk About Race" by Julius Lester that is supposed to be good.
I'm going to add also that I had a 15 year old boy with Asperger's and epilepsy stand up at the conference I ran on Sunday, and say the following to the room:
"Can you guess what's on my iPod?"
People started guessing hip hop artists. He stopped them after a couple of suggestions.
"Is it only the color of my skin that makes you think I'd like hip hop? Guess again."
As we guessed, we came to learn that he liked Green Day, Miles Davis, Lady Gaga, etc.
He said "You don't know my musical tastes because you don't know ME. You know the color of my skin, and you know about my disability, and neither of those things tells you anything about who I am."
He owned the room. It was about the coolest thing I have ever seen.
we learn only when we apply what we hearthank you for sharing that sarah. i am still thinking
Thanks guys. This is great stuff. Please keep it coming! I feel like a real dumb-ass for just assuming that my kids would automatically embrace differences in people.
@KD: I didn't really ask a lot of questions. I was so stunned I could hardly think what to say. Those are good questions, though, and I'll definitely explore it further when we talk about it again.
@Bunny: it makes me feel better to hear about that speech. Thanks for sharing that.
@Sara Pi: thanks for saying I didn't do anything wrong and for the book suggestion. (that song is from Sesame Street.)
Those are good ideas, Barb. Thanks! I can do that!!The whole thing is so weird and out of nowhere! she had a crush on an African American teacher last year and her little boyfriend @ daycare was also African American so WTF! I blame Disney!
Is Teyona the girl from The Princess & the Frog?
The only thought that I have is basically the same as KD's in that when you are a little calmer, sit her down and ask questions, then you can address your concerns to her answers. But I think you have a pretty good start.
Petra, I wouldn't assume that Gretchen's friends aren't a mixed group.
That's a good anecdote. It shows that picking out differences is something we do naturally. The ones we choose to notice may depend on any number of things: what's eye-catching, what's unusual to the viewer, and perhaps conscious and unconscious biases as well.Alison Bechdel posted this picture on her blog this week, with the following anecdote:
I just sent this photo to my friend the Queer Theory Professor with the subject line, “which of these things is not like the others?”
She responded, “the second pumpkin from the right?” As a child watching Sesame Street, she would amuse herself during the little ditty (which apparently you can now download as a ringtone) by trying to come up with a reason why each of the things could be “not like the others.”
And it's true, you could say that the second pumpkin has a blemish. Or you could pick any of them on the length of stem.
Or you could say "the one with the whiskers."
When I went on exchange to Saskatchewan in high school, people kept looking at me longer than I was used to. It took me a while to find out they were looking for my horns, since they had never met a Jew before.
Petra X wrote: "Sarah Pi wrote: "Petra, I wouldn't assume that Gretchen's friends aren't a mixed group."Its hard not to assume that when the little girl quite clearly says that she doesn't like one boy because ..."
But she also said that her daughter's best friend in preschool was black, and that this came up very unexpectedly, and that she lives in a very diverse area.
Anyway, your comment as edited probably wouldn't have drawn my defense. The original wording felt like it was making an implication.
Nevermind.
Petra X wrote: "when two Mormon missionaries came into my shop and one of them asked me if I was of the Jewish faith (on noticing my magen david necklace). I said yes, and the reaction was, "Oh wow, I've never met a Jewess before.""The proper response is,
"And I've never met a nineteen year old, polygamist-wannabe, gonna-get-my-own-planet, righteous type-a asshole before."
Then you do what this lady did.
Update: Me: "So, did you know that Jay Bug is African American?"
Her: "No. I like him."
Me: "Did you know that Mr. Brian is African American?"
Her: "No! How can you tell?"
Me: "Did you know that Mr. Tevis is African American?"
Her: (giggling now) "no, but I LOVE him."
Me: "Did you know that Jordan is African American?"
Her: "No. Did you know that Sue is African American?"
Sue is my (white) South African friend.
This parenting shit is a lot harder than they make it out to be. ;)
Oh, awesome, Gretchen! I love the literal understanding of African American. :)My suggestion is to read books like The Snowy Day by Ezra Jack Keats that show kids acting like kids, regardless of color.
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Thanks Lobstergirl! That's such a nice thing to say.
Yes, I'm with LG on this one. I wanted to read some of the comments before I responded. Living in a small town in Wisconsin we have some diversity, believe it or not, esp. Hmong and Latino, but few African-Americans. I worried early on that my kids would stand and stare at anyone looking different than them, but they know I worked at schools with no white kids, have close black friends, and the kids seem fine interacting with diverse populations when they interact with them. I don't think we're out of the woods yet, though. People in this town still liberally throw around words like "nigger"...the racism isn't hard to find. So I probably should talk with them more. If my oldest complains that I bring it up, like he does when I talk with him about anything uncomfortable, I'm telling him to blame you, Gretchen:)
I might give up on talking to her about this topic right now. 6-year-olds are so goofy. I'm going with the books option. She seems to learn better through more indirect means. She's naturally contrary and argumentative, like her mother.
We have diversity here, too. Sometimes you actually see a brunette!!!
you did right gretch. i think not getting alarmed and making a huge production out of it was the correct thing. pointing out other african americans seems spot on
Petra X wrote: "When you are part of a multi-racial family living in a Black society and 'white' is the other, not 'african-american', its quite different. The defensiveness and racism are reversed and much more openly displayed and perhaps I am looking at this thread from entirely the wrong point of view. "I'm confused. Was your son not invited to parties because he was white or because he was black or was it the multi-racial deal?
Anyways, racism fascinates me. I spent the first half my childhood in a predominantly black neighborhood, but never felt any racism. (by the way, I'm white) I always thought it was due to the fact that I grew up there and knew these kids from early on. We were friends and never thought about the color. Looking back though, I did know of some of the other white kids that had some race issues due to the fact that they were picked on and associated that with the fact that they were white. They apparently had completely different experiences and could have grown up to be horrendous racists...I don't know though.
Then, I then moved to a pretty affluent and white neighborhood where there were only 4 or 5 black kids in the entire school. I found myself withdrawing from people because it freaked me out. I was not a fan of the white kids at first. I know that sounds completely backwards and screwed up, but it was new and strange. Even the black kids were weird to me. They didn't act the way I expected them to.
Racism can be taught by hateful family and/or friends, it can be learned through bad experiences that are turned into horrible stereotypes, it can be brought on by being introduced into new and strange circumstances that throw you off. I don't think this (Smetchie's situation) falls into any of those categories. Due to the fact that she has friends of a variety of races, ethnicities and religions I think she may just be generalizing and, as a 6 year old, does not get how horrible it sounds to do so. Once reminded of her friends and teachers who she loves and are black she hopefully realized, "oh, of course I like African Americans"
At that age, the phrase "African American" probably doesn't mean anything to her anyway. It's just another category, like "I don't like brussel sprouts" or "I don't like yellow pants." She doesn't know history, and she doesn't know that race is a touchier issue than food or clothes. Maybe the most important thing is for her to know that it's ok to like or not like a specific person for a specific reason - but it should be about who the person is, not what they look like. Same way it's not ok to say that she doesn't like someone who is overweight, or has a weird mole on their face, but it's ok to not like someone because they stole your book or said something mean.
I think at six, she had no idea she was saying something that would stop mom in her tracks. Who knows what she has heard in school. When I was little, my parents gave me a book called,"In Henry's Backyard." It talked about this issue, and explained how some white guy got sick and the only blood that matched his for a transfusion, came from a black man. I got that we are all the same inside.You showed a nice low key approach that let her know you care, and have strong convictions. She's not too young to appreciate that message.
Children raised with love, respect, and fairness don't usually grow up to be racists. I think it's heart warming that you care like you do.
I love this group. You guys are so freaking nice.
King Dinösaur wrote: "It's very interesting about what's natural/taught. Apparently (I don't remember this), when I was very, very young I was watching "Romper Room" and in the midst of the overwhelming group of white ..."Was everyone else wearing a uniform or something? It just seems odd only the yellow dress was the noticable difference.
By the way, I have no idea what romper room is - a tv show or film perhaps?
Barb wrote: "It's only natural to notice differences, it's how those differences are treated that matters.When I was in 1st grade, I lived in a very small / very white town, and we got a black minister at the..."
It would've been better if he responded truthfully - God makes people in all hues. This you will understand better when you are older. You are white and I am black ( or whatever term is considered correct in America). I can't for one moment believe that this was the first time such a question had been put to him by a child.
Petra X wrote: "Sarah Pi wrote: "Petra, I wouldn't assume that Gretchen's friends aren't a mixed group."Its hard not to assume that when the little girl quite clearly says that she doesn't like one boy because ..."
I too couldn't help assuming that the person who had set this topic didn't socialize at home with black people or have many black neighbours. It seems hardly a thing a child would say if the case was otherwise.
I'm not a parent so I cannot advise.I was the only black person in my neighbourhood until I was twelve. I was raised by my great-aunt who is white. My childhood and schooldays were hellish. At primary school I was bullied because I was black. When I attended secondary school I was harassed by the black kids there because too them I eas "white" or "too white".
In Britain most of my generation of blacks were mostly born to a generation of emigres from the west indies and came to Britain with them or born here but spoke the patios of their particular island when at home or amongst themselves at school.
The only black role models I had were mostly Motown artists whose life experiences were far worse that than the black British experience myself and my peers endured.
It wasn't until my early twenties before I stopped feeling like a brother outsider around other black people.
Barb wrote: "Malcolm wrote: "Barb wrote: "It's only natural to notice differences, it's how those differences are treated that matters.When I was in 1st grade, I lived in a very small / very white town, and w..."
And I didn't suggest that you did. The point of my post was that I thought he could've gave a better answer. If like me he would've had that same question asked of him from his earliest days.
When I have been asked that question I tell them that it is better their parents or school teacher to explain. When I was younger my parents told me to reply - 'why are you white all over?'
where I grew up there were maybe 12 african american families. talk about white bread america! the nuns were anti-semitic and anti-french catholic, anti-protestant, my dad was racist. I got my attitude towards diversity from my mom who had served in the WACS in Chatanooga and was absolutely appalled at making blacks walk in the gutter to let the whites use the sidewalks! She told me to judge people by their actions not their looks. She never got past the 8th grade but she was one smart and wise woman! I taught my son the same thing. When he was in the 8th grade, a chinese lad moved into our neighborhood, went to his school. Jay brought him home and made him a friend because he knew what it was to be the "new kid".
We were in the car going to the mall and she was telling me about a boy at her school who chases her at recess and calls her names.
me: "oh he probably just likes you and doesn't know how to act around you. Boys are like that."
her: "well I don't like him."
me: "why not?"
her: "he's black."
me: "what does that have to do with anything?"
her: "well I just don't think that my skin would look good with black skin. I want to marry someone with dark hair but with light skin like mine. I don't really like people who look different from me."
me: "what?! where is this coming from? did someone talk to you about this?"
her: "no. I actually just don't like African Americans."
!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I parked the car and we had a bit of a comin' to Jesus where I told her that it's not alright to say "I don't like African Americans." I did the whole thing about "how would you like it if someone decided they didn't like you because you have blond hair? wouldn't you rather they get to know you as a person before they decided if they liked you or not?" I was very stern about the whole thing and I definitely upset her but it really didn't seem to sink in. It seemed like think she felt it was no different than saying "I don't like lima beans." I'm sure she understood she'd said something she shouldn't say, but I want her to really see why it's wrong to think that way.
We live in a pretty diverse area with all nationalities. Her class is probably made up of something like 5 white kids, 5 black kids, 5 asian kids, 5 hispanic kids, 5 middle eastern kids, ect.
I don't get it! Where did I go wrong? I was solidly under the impressions that kids were naturally accepting and had to be taught to be narrow minded. I never imagined she could, on her own, come up with the idea that she didn't like people who were "different" from her. Maybe someone around her is saying stuff like that and she just didn't want to rat them out once she saw how upset I was.
So does anyone have any suggestions for books we could read together or examples or stories or anything I could use to get the point across and help her get it? I don't want to just say: "you aren't allowed to think that way and you're a bad person if you do." I want her to figure it out.