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Grammar Central > Etymology and the Origins of Words & Expressions

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message 51: by Boreal Elizabeth (new)

Boreal Elizabeth | 401 comments yah-i think so
but i always seem to be removing my foot from my mouth



message 52: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Who dragged the cat in?

Anybody know where this common "feline not-so-fine" expression originates?


message 53: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
Haven't heard that one....I thought it was 'who let the cat out of the bag?'


message 54: by Ken, Moderator (last edited Oct 18, 2008 04:36AM) (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Messed up. I'm thinking of look at what the cat dragged in!

I swear. This is my brain. This is my brain on age...


message 55: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Barrel of monkeys.

Sack of cats.

Kettle of fish.


message 56: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
ball of wax


message 57: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
dog day afternoon

three dog night

dog-gone tired

gone to the dogs

(Is someone supposed to be looking these up? Let the dog fetch the answers...)


message 58: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
We once had a cat that dragged in (or tried to) various "gifts" for us. You know, squirrel head, dead garter snake, dead (but never eaten, for some reason) chipmunk, various organs from various animals deemed variously disgusting even to a cat's palate.

Alas, Allie Cat is no more. And what a cat! A cat that acted like a dog (well, sometimes). That's cat worth its weight in dog pounds (woof).

Now I see fewer and fewer "outdoor cats" to control the local rodent population (especially the damned chipmunks which ate my garden last spring). Reason being, we now have all manner of coyotes and fishers in the surrounding woods. Both are happy to eat cats and your little dog, too (insert Wicked Witch of the West cackle here)...


message 59: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments can of worms

bag of tricks

pail of steam

bag of wind, but not

*chest of tools

*hat of rabbit


message 60: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Outdoor cats do kill ground nesting birds.


message 61: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Turnabout is fair play. (I saw a hawk pick off a little bird the other day, too. Talk about one fell swoop -- that hawk was it!)


message 62: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
I had a cat in my childhood that gifted me a freshly caught 3 foot long eel....ON MY BED!!!
And every now and then the 'bird will turn'. My current cat (Jubjub - not my fault) made such inroads into the unfledged blackbird chicks in the trees around my neighbourhood that one bereft pair started divebombing him every time he poked a whisker outside! (they worked in tandem - first one and then the other in a finely coordinated attack). It got to the stage where he would make a valiant dash for the garage, only to dash back again, a quivering and cowering wreck!! The blackbirds actually drew blood a couple of times...grazing the top of his head.


message 63: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Turnabout is fair play (record's stuck in its groove, I think... playing "Live and Let Die").


message 64: by Savvy (new)

Savvy  (savvysuzdolcefarniente) | 1458 comments I'm wondering where the expression "stumping", as in "stumping for votes" originated?

Anyone have a clue?


message 65: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments it's an acronym--"Soiling The Universe with Mendacious Prattle."

Everyone knows that ;->


message 66: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
Soiling The Universe with Mendacious Prattle While Standing on a Stump.


message 67: by Boreal Elizabeth (last edited Oct 28, 2008 01:40PM) (new)

Boreal Elizabeth | 401 comments there's more than one way to skin a cat
(yah but they're all pretty gross)

and the place's too small to swing a cat
(again what's with all the cat abuse?)


message 68: by Old-Barbarossa (new)

Old-Barbarossa "the place's too small to swing a cat"
I think this is from the naval use, during the days of sail, of the "cat o' nine tails" (a type of whip) used in punishing miscreants. Certain areas of the ship were cramped and with low decks so punishment was carried out on the open deck to allow a suitable swing of "the cat".


message 69: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Remember the dead cat scene from Huckleberry Finn.


message 70: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Exactly what came to mind for me (of course, I'm a Twainiac).


message 71: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
Are you Twainiacs familiar with the books by Kent Rasmussen, Chief Twainiac of all, and longtime member (now on hiatus) of Constant Reader?

Check them out at http://www.goodreads.com/search/searc...


message 72: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Unfamiliar with Rasmussen's stuff, I fear. I kind of OD'd on Twainia and started focusing more on Twain's writing itself a few years back.

Bunny, I was lucky enough to receive the entire Oxford set of Twain's unabridged works a while back. A gift from the Good Wyfe for my birthday.


message 73: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments What did the Bad Wyfe get you?


message 74: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
David!! She got nothing of course! Bad Wyfe!!


message 75: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
David, if you're a married man, you know ALL about Good Wyfe/Bad Wyfe...


message 76: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Courtesy of H. Rider Haggard and John Mortimer, I designate her with a Rumpolean "She Who Must Be Obeyed." Wouldn't trade her in for a Lemon Tart, either.


message 77: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
My husband and daughter call me "She Who."


message 78: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments They call me "Hey you!"


message 79: by Ken, Moderator (last edited Oct 30, 2008 01:32AM) (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Speaking of H. Rider Haggard, it was just this summer that I read the kiddie classic King Solomon's Mines. I guess you can make up for lost time any ole time. I also own (but have yet to read) She. Probably it is about a Wyfe figure.


message 80: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
My ex-husband also called me 'She Who Must be Obeyed'......behind my back, to his work colleagues. I didn't like it. Hence ex...... (amongst other reasons)!


message 81: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Never heard that expression. If its origin is Rumpole the Bailey, that explains why. I'm a popular culture illiterate. Unpopular culture I'm better at.


message 82: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments I got it from Rumpole, but Rumpole got the phrase from H. Rider Haggard's She. Colonialist fantasy novel, popular culcha of a bygone era.

Speaking of bygones, Rumple was well played by an Aussie actor, the great Leo McKern.


message 83: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
I know. I loved the TV series.


message 84: by Ruth (new)

Ruth | 16546 comments Mod
I always hoped I could join Rumpole for a glass of claret at Pomeroy's Wine Bar. I'm a Pomeroy on my mother's side.


message 85: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Interesting. I've read that H. Rider Haggard scholars argue over which is the greater work, She or King Solomon's Mines.


message 86: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Château Thames Embankment. Lovely plonk, they say.


message 87: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Right. I did say "H. Rider Haggard scholars" (as opposed to genuine guardians of the blessed canon).


message 88: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
Sooo....curmudgeon...from The Online Etymology Dictionary..."curmudgeon
1577, of unknown origin; Johnson's suggestion that it is from Fr. coeur mechant "evil heart" is no longer taken seriously; the first syllable may be cur "dog."

This is the best one...link for other theories follows...."Without having any real evidence, I think it's likely that curmudgeon has some connection with cur, which came into English early in the 12th century and is related to Germanic verbs meaning 'to growl'. As for the second part of the word, the Century Dictionary, published in 1889, suggests as a possible source either of two Scottish words, mudgeon, 'grimace', or murgeon 'mock or grumble'. "
http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index...

" A curmudgeon's reputation for malevolence is undeserved. They're neither warped nor evil at heart. They don't hate mankind, just mankind's absurdities. They're just as sensitive and soft-hearted as the next guy, but they hide their vulnerability beneath a crust of misanthropy. They ease the pain by turning hurt into humor. . . . . . They attack maudlinism because it devalues genuine sentiment. . . . . . Nature, having failed to equip them with a servicable denial mechanism, has endowed them with astute perception and sly wit.
Curmudgeons are mockers and debunkers whose bitterness is a symptom rather than a disease. They can't compromise their standards and can't manage the suspension of disbelief necessary for feigned cheerfulness. Their awareness is a curse.
Perhaps curmudgeons have gotten a bad rap in the same way that the messenger is blamed for the message: They have the temerity to comment on the human condition without apology. They not only refuse to applaud mediocrity, they howl it down with morose glee. Their versions of the truth unsettle us, and we hold it against them, even though they soften it with humor. "
JON WINOKUR

http://www.curmudgeon-online.net/inde...


message 89: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Wow. Curmudgeons never looked so god. Liked that definition mucho very.


message 90: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments Fie. Bah. Humbug!


message 91: by Boreal Elizabeth (new)

Boreal Elizabeth | 401 comments ahhh
so now i know why
i get hooted out of other groups

;)



message 92: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
I found it strangely comforting as well!!


message 93: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Maybe we're the L&G&C Group. It's a wonder we cleared that IBF sanctioning so quickly!


message 94: by David (last edited Nov 27, 2008 10:31AM) (new)

David | 4568 comments The word of the day for us gringos is, of course, "turkey."

The "turkey" did not come from Turkey, but from the New World. The French call it dinde, which means "from India," and in Brazil it's called perú. All these origin theories are mistaken, I believe. The turkey was domesticated in Mexico, where it is known as guajolote, from the Nahuatl huexolotl, except among snobs, where it is known as pavo, or "pheasant."

These mistaken origins are not uncommon. What we call "Danish pastry" the Danes call Viennese.

An aside: turkey used to be a luxury food, as reflected in the Cole Porter song, "You're the Top" ("You're the top;/You're a turkey dinner;/You're the time/Of a Derby winner./I'm just in the way/As the French would say/De trop,/But if baby, I'm the bottom, you're the top.") Hyrbid turkeys having become relatively efficient converters of vegetable feed to protein, turkey is now a healthier substitute for other meats.

If you eat turkey, tofurkey, or pastries today, enjoy them.


message 95: by Old-Barbarossa (last edited Nov 27, 2008 10:53AM) (new)

Old-Barbarossa I remember seeing an illumination from a manuscript (European and pre-1492 but can't remember the date) with what was a suspiciously turkey like bird about to be killed by a serf. Maybe a ptarmigan or grouse though, you know the licence illuminators used, but looked very like a turkey to me. I feel a trip to the chained book section looms...if I find it I'll try and post a pic.


message 96: by Ken, Moderator (new)

Ken | 18714 comments Mod
Lobster SHOULD be peasant food. Bottom vacuum cleaners of the ocean, they are, and overrated.


message 97: by Tyler (new)

Tyler  (tyler-d) | 268 comments I've always suspected there was something not quite right about those creatures. And on top of their unsavory bottom feeding, I now find out they were once peasant food! Chalk this up to another triumph of marketing.


message 98: by Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness (new)

Debbie (sardonicprincessofcheerfulness) | 6389 comments Mod
Mmmm - crayfish!! Had some for lunch (got it at the beach)!


message 99: by Old-Barbarossa (new)

Old-Barbarossa As it's Friday I had fish also...haddock...not as exotic as crayfish or lobster.
Battered and with lemon juice, very nice.


message 100: by David (new)

David | 4568 comments It must be Cole Porter month:

"If I invite a guy some night
To dine on my fine finnan haddie
I just adore his asking for more
But my heart belongs to Daddy."

Finnan haddie is smoked haddock, from Findon, a place in Scotland.

In Boston, they call haddock "scrod," as in

"I've been in Boston for a week and I haven't got scrod."
"Must be the water."


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