Oct 2010: Two Moon Princess / Introduction. What does it mean a book is 'Young Adult'?

[Carmen]

Thank you so much for choosing my young adult fantasy Two Moon Princess for the October discussion.

I appreciate it very much, especially considering that many adults would not read a book if its labeled Young Adult. They think that, by definition, a book aimed at young adults is either too simplistic for their sophisticated minds or poorly written. Probably both.

I disagree.

For me a young adult book is one that:

a) has a young adult as its protagonist,

b) respect both its protagonist and its readers. Which mean it does not talk down to them, nor preaches and

c) ends with a note of hope.

To be poorly written is not on the list.

Actually I challenge those that claim YA books are poorly written, to read any of the winners of the Newbery award or pick one of the YA books I have given five stars here in my shelves at Good Reads. I am certain you would change your mind after you have done so. And if you have to ask what is the Newbery award? well, then I rest my case.

If you want to read more about my stand on this subject, please go to my blog at http://onpublishing.wordpress.com/201...

[[deleted user]]

I don't have any problems reading YA fiction and have read many titles. I have been keen to read fairy tales, since i never read them when younger, and have just recently obtained the stories by the Brothers Grimm.

The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman was a winner of the Newbery award and is a story I enjoyed.

[Kendra]

I love young adult fiction. Oftentimes I prefer it over my big epic fantasies. I have certain expectations with young adult novels; I like knowing that the main character is most likely not going to die, no one will be raped or tortured. Like Carmen, I believe that that note of hope is essential for young adult fiction and it's something I expect when I pick up a book by Tamora Pierce, or Robin McKinley. I'd also like to know what y'all think about the writing style of young adult authors. I feel like the prose and exposition are, for lack of a better word, simpler. Half the reason I love Carol Berg is the beautiful pictures she paints with just a few sentences. I feel like every word is chosen with extreme care to portray exactly what she wants and nothing extraneous. However, this isn't something I look for in my young adult reads. In fact, it might even get in the way of a good young adult plot. What do y'all think? Is this a naive way to look at it, or have you noticed anything similar?

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

I'm a big fan of YA and Juvenille lit, and do get annoyed with the assumption that some people seem to have that to be YA is to be poorly written. Sure, there are some books which are dreck - but there are plenty of adult books which are dreck, too, but we don't ascribe that to the entirety of the selection out there.

As for it being simple - again, I think it depends. I've read some YA books which I feel also have beautifully painted scenes or ideas or metaphors, and some which are more sparse in their descriptions. Personally, one thing that irks me about a lot, though clearly not all, epic fantasy is that I find their descriptions to sometimes go on and on, describing in minute detail the specific variations of trees in a wood. Unless it's relevant to the plot, I don't care. Granted, this is a matter of preference. Some believe the detail is a part of world building which makes it a more immersive experience for them, as readers. I'm much more of a character focused person, so I want interesting and well-written characters - and I do find that a lot of YA I have read tended to focus on characters and their development - probably, at least in part, because a lot of them have that whole 'coming-of-age' thing as part of the overall arc.

Carmen - I think b is very important. I've read a few YA books which, to me, come off as very patronizing. (Both of these recent examples I can think of are by authors who usually write for adults, and when they wrote for a younger audience I think they made the mistake of sort of doing that 'talking down' thing you mentioned. There's little I hate more when reading a book than feeling like I'm being condescended to.

Of course, this is, again, something which can happen in books written for any age. If an author doesn't trust their audience and feel the need to spell out every little thing, then it's bound to happen.

Anyway, I've ordered your book but it hasn't arrived yet, but I look forward to participating in the discussions more once I've had a chance to read it. I was directed to this thread by a friend of mine who knows how livid I get when people are dismissive of YA just because it's YA and, therefore, must be dumb - so thanks for the thread. :)

[Christine]

I understand that YA books have those stereotypes attached to them but there are a lot of YA books that do exactly that. I've read/listened to a handful of YA books where the writing was very simple and the story line linear. That doesn't mean the book wasn't enjoyable but it didn't exercise my vocabulary or introduce new ideas. A lot of the times you do find YA books to be very . . . I'm not a writer so I don't know the correct word so I will do my best to explain... you can feel the set of morals the author is trying to display. Themes like "no sex before marriage" are not portrayed subtly. Two teenagers will start to get hot and heavy then one of them just stops and announces how they can't continue until they are married. Sometimes alot of YA books do feel preachy.

As for happy endings....I love happy endings. I don't care what I'm reading, YA, Fantasy, Horror... if the book ends on a sour note I'm pretty annoyed..I'm the same way with movies too. Just don't make my happy ending TOO predictable. Get me attached to the character then start the abuse. Some times when I read YA books there seems to be this invisible bubble around the main character. Sure they might get bruises and a couple scratches but I'm never afraid of any real harm. But I do love me a good happy ending!!

[Jerry]

Most bookstores and libraries place YA titles in the children area. Should YA titles be with the adult books or kids books?

They are well Young "Adult". What is the age range for YA? 18-25?

Perhaps more adults would read YA if they were placed with the adult books more often.

[Carmen]

I am glad to see I am not the only one who loves YA books and happy endings.

Jerry, YA generally means 12 and up.

Because YA is so popular these days some bookstores and libraries do shelve YA books separated from children's books.

Christine, many YA books are quite graphic and 'edgy' not only regarding sex but any other subject that was considered taboo before. Many, especially in the super popular trend of paranormal or Urban Fantasy, are certainly not shy about it.

As for the writing, Middle Grade may be more simplistic, but YA is not. Of course it depends on the writer as it does on adults' titles as Colleen also pointed out.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

One thing I do think is that they should maybe have markers within the YA category. I've generally seen the YA market to be "works targeted at ages 14 to 21", per Wiki - but there's a wide range of maturity and experience in that realm. Usually, when I'm reviewing a YA book, I'll mention whether it's "young YA" or "older YA", because there are variations in the writing/themes/tones/etc.

I also sometimes wish that the YA market had markers for genre, since YA is more of an age group and encompasses various genres within it.

I do think that YA should be shelved seperately, though. I like it when the children's books, the junvenille books (9-13) and YA books are all shelved close, but individually marked. One book store I frequent, though, has recently moved the YA section closer to the adult fantasy/sci-fi section - I suppose recognizing that there are cross-over readers who don't, I suppose, wish to be seen in or near the children's section.

[Margot]

I think that YA along with many times of genre fiction battle with the issue of stereo-typing. Many people who don't read YA novels assume that all of them are badly written. The same goes for fantasy, or mystery/thrillers even. But I think that blockbusters like Harry Potter and (sorry if you're not a fan, but) Twilight have recently helped break down the wall between YA novels and adult readers, making it okay and even very popular to read YA even if you're not so young. Which is great. YA is a huge genre now because of such successes.

And I agree with Colleen that YA is not a very helpful genre marker because the label actually represents the market not the genre. And now, with the growing popularity of YA across age groups, it's not even a very accurate market label! I'm glad to hear that some bookstores are moving their YA sections out of the kids corner.

[Wendy]

In fact my favorite book/trilogy is YA - Monster Blood Tatoo Series Foundling And I've definitely read more YA than Adult - intially because I didn't want anything too 'graphic.'

It's a fair question - one that I have pondered myself.

[colleen the convivial curmudgeon]

Wendy wrote: "In fact my favorite book/trilogy is YA - Monster Blood Tatoo Series Foundling And I've definitely read more YA than Adult - intially because I didn't want anything too 'graphic.' "

I have that on my to-read list, Wendy. Good to hear it's a good series.

[Wendy]

Colleen ~blackrose~ wrote: "Wendy wrote: "In fact my favorite book/trilogy is YA - Monster Blood Tatoo Series Foundling And I've definitely read more YA than Adult - intially because I didn't want anything too '..."

I don't hear many people talk about this series - perhaps folks just don't know about it! Book 3 will be out in November.