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Brunelleschi's Dome: How a Renaissance Genius Reinvented Architecture by Ross King
message 51:
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Robin
(new)
Oct 09, 2010 09:41PM
I may just do that.
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I'm still hanging in there and I admit it is getting a wee bit better. Mainly that is because I've allowed myself to skim over the parts that are technical and that I don't really get. It's enough for me to know what he tried to do and achieved in doing without trying to understand the how. That way I'm not as bogged down yet I can appreciate (to some extent) his vision and his achievement. The parts about life in those times etc. I like.
In those days water was unsanitary everywhere. The Italians, French, and Spanish drank wine; the English drank beer or ale. Come to think of it, they still drink those primarily in those countries. I guess the water hasn't improved.Robin wrote: "Yes, and they also had to drink wine since the water was unsanitary. For the most part I like the book because of the rivalry and being that Brunelleschi's is the older man but he is very insightf..."
Dvora wrote: "Come to think of it, they still drink those primarily in those countries. I guess the water hasn't improved..."Hah!
But that is vino country isn't it. In one part of the book the author mentioned that the men started distilling the wine with water, like pregnant women. I guess everyone enjoyed their wine. They didn't want the workers drunk while they were on the job, I suppose. But it must have just been a little water, since the waters were still not sanitary. Jonathan, I know you got the joke about the wine, Ha!
I read the blog, I guess the author wanted to mention that pregnant women drank the wine diluted? That is what I got from the book.
Robin wrote: "I read the blog, I guess the author wanted to mention that pregnant women drank the wine diluted? That is what I got from the book."LOL -- oh well...
I just linked to the first thing that came up on google -- the point was simply that wine was drunk in a highly diluted state -- 3:1 or 5:1, and that when a writer like Petronius says that Trimalchio drank his wine 'merum', it is to indicate -- by that single word - that he was an epicure (in the modern sense of that word, of course...).
The point of the book is that on one occasion they did let the men drink, and maybe it wasn't diluted because there was a reference to it being like a tavern. Once the men climbed the scaffolds to place the bricks up high, then they had to curtail their liquor consumption, since they did not want anyone falling, Ii think they just had two men fall to their deaths, which is amazing considering that they were high up, but they did have leather or some kind of harness to keep them stabilized.
I found this book very interesting but the Latin and Italian does stump me every so often. I'm finding it readable and the subject very human. What intrigued me most was the description of Rome at the period of time. We hear of the Roman Civilization crashing but the Author really describes how low it got.
I'm listening to the book on CD and find it really good so far.Like Jeannie says the author really shows how low Rome got - only 20,000 population at Bruneschelli's time when it had been a million in Rome's heyday.
also I enjoyed how the author shows how drawn out the whole process was - I'm not sure if anything today rivals how long the building of the dome took from inception to completion.
Additionally I like how the author describes the various players and the Florence scene in such detail.
Overall, it seems like a fun/informative book and I can't wait to go see the dome as well as the Sophia dome in Istanbul for comparison.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66...Roman Life: 100 B.C. to A.D. 200
by John R. Clarke
I just found this book and am looking forward to reading it. I see that Susanna has read it and gave it a good review. I wonder if reading it would give more insight to the life and times of the Romans previous to the time of Brunelleschi. And then I can understand his time in Rome where he studied the ruins and architecture of the Roman Empire.
Yes, once you read it maybe you can make a comment on the book, since I don't know if I know enough of the Roman lifestyle, or anything of that time.
Heather wrote: "http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66...Roman Life: 100 B.C. to A.D. 200
by John R. Clarke
I just found this book and am looking forward to reading it. I see that Susanna has read i..."
I haven't read it, but it is well regarded - I've been told. The classic is Jerome Carcopino's Daily Life in Ancient Rome -- which is very readable and authoritative. If you really want a stunning, granular book on Rome, its daily life, how houses were built, pottery was made, sold...; its history (the 3rd cen. collapse especially) -- the inflation (really a hyper-inflation), the civil wars -- read Mikail Rostovzeff's Social and Economic History of the Roman Empire -- You want to make sure you get the hardbound (it is cheap, as Oxford reprinted it some years ago at a very low price), since the second volume has the plates and notes (both of which are extensive and tightly integrated into the text. It is one of those books that everyone should read, regardless of their field. It is an overwhelming book.
http://www.amazon.com/Daily-Life-Anci...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listin...
Well, I read my next 50 pages and had to stop myself from just continuing to read. The methods and inventions required to form bricks, pulleys, etc. is just amazing looking backwards from the 21st Century.I also could feel the pressure placed upon Filippo by the Opera del Duomo and his peers. I loved the letter submitted to the Opera by Giovanni while disclaiming any fault upon himself...sounds too much like today in the business world.
I found myself watching the historic rescue of the Chilean miners closer...especially the construction of their pulley system.
Wasn't that amazing. What heroism and all the men survived and they literally subsisted on small amounts of food, and they continued to get exercise down there. It shows what the human spirit can achieve from the person who designed the contraption to all the Chilean men who never gave up hope that they would get rescued.
I began to wonder why the people put so much into the building of the Dome.Then, as I listened to more and more of the book, I got the feeling that the dome became part of the people involved and the people became part of it.
So when they looked at the Dome at various times, I think they saw themselves in the building and got a great deal of satisfaction from being an actual physical part of the process as well as an aesthetic pleasure from viewing it.
I don't think the book is poorly written.
I actually like it. Not trying to pick it apart makes it an easy read. I get going and all of a sudden I have read 10 pages without even knowing it. I guess it is engaging.And you're right, Jim. I think the people took pride in their creation for it's ability to be the largest dome in Italy not using the visible supports. They all wanted to be a part of it.
I agree that the book is not badly written. Some of it is more technical than what interests me, but basically I think it is soundly written and generally interesting although all the parts don't seem to fit together for me (unlike Filippo's Dome, thank goodness).
It is just the beginning of the book and getting background information on what the times were like, and it brought a humaneness to the surroundings, like the sheep coming in to the rural area. He had to put the technical in to show what it was like building on such a massive scale, and the machinery being invented by Brunelleschi at the time. I am glad I read the book it is always informative to know how things were made and at what cost to people trying to make something out of nothing.
I just finished and after my initial negative impression, I have to say that I'm glad I read it. I haven't read Bryson's Short History, but I wonder if it deals with such details of mechanical engineering as this book does. I frankly don't see how King could have written those parts any better, and it was those parts that I liked the least. Overall I thought it was an interesting read. The Dome and Brunelleschi's genius were fascinating to read about. I'm glad I didn't give up in the beginning, and yes, I would definitely recommend this to others (depending, as with all books, on their taste and interests, of course).
Bryson's Short History is not short. It's a big, thick book that deals with astrophysics, archaeology, anthropology, mathematics, and explains some of the most difficult concepts of science today. If he could do that, and still make the book entertaining and even funny, he's a far better writer than RK. IMHO
I have no argument with that, Ruth. Bryson may well be the better writer. I've never said (nor do I think) that Brunelleschi's Dome is necessarily well written. But I also do not think it is badly written. The subject is fascinating and I thought it was adequately written. Maybe if Bryson wrote about Brunelleschi he would write a better book, but we didn't have that choice.
Ah well, I guess I shouldn't grouse, since I didn't stick with the book and some seem to think it improved farther in.
Yes, and I was one of them. Initially I voiced in right after you to say that I thought the book was seriously boring. But after a while I changed my approach and in any case I think it got better. I paid less attention to the excruciating technical details, while King started telling us more about social conditions and various people. In the end, I was happy I read it.
While I wanted more of the technical details, interestingly explained and adequately illustrated.
I am a bit behind in my reading as some things have come up here at home, but tonight I am reading the 'excruciating details' of the 'pulley' that was used to lift the heavier materials to the top of the dome. I am amazed! They had the foresight to think of friction and to use sea water or spoiled wine to wet the huge ropes which could cause the friction and thus a fire. They used smooth walnut tubes to encase the drum to minimize the ever-present threat of fire. They used elm trees to 'resist the elements' since the machine was to be used for many years to come. There are so many more details that I find fascinating. And, no, I still can't really envision the contraption he came up with but it does say "The machine was centuries ahead of the technical understanding of the time".
It sometimes make you remember that old saying...we have forgotten more than we will learn...
I think as of last Fri. we should have read up to page 100 and I want to say how incredible it is that the "fat carpenter" could have been duped into thinking he wasn't himself. People couldn't have been so naive.
I don't think he was naive so much as in those days people were really and truly religious and believe in miracles and fantastic happenings. Perhaps in that kind of environment and with the mindset of the time, one could begin to doubt. Actually, I think it was set up so well and so thoroughly that someone of a later date could also begin to doubt.
Yeah, that Fillipo was a mimic, and he could impersonate others, it shows that he had a sense of humor besides inventing all those fascinating contraptions to build his dome. That was one of the lighter moments of the book. And as far as the mindset of the day I think they were very religious, that is why they gave great thought and care to building churches, and of course, the dome.
I know I'm have not read to the point that we are supposed to be reading (those of us that are still reading), but I'm on pg. 87. I am really confused about how King is describing how Brunelleschi made the bricks gradually 'curve' toward the horizontal at the top. Can anyone explain that to me?
I would say, don't worry, be happy, and keep reading. I don't have a mind for those kinds of things anyway so it worked better for me to get the gist of the task and accomplishment and forget about the details.
Did Brunelleschi have some kind of brace to hold the bricks once they were being made, and they just got shaped while still being wet, I returned the book, so I can't remember that bit. Or he made them herringbone where one brick sideways overlapped another. I recall King mentioning that in the book. Which would have been many bricks for the domework. It all makes sense at the end of the book, hang in there.
In the 11 chapter it talks about bricks and mortar. Here it says "It was decided to vault the rest of the dome without centering, another amendment was adopted: in certain parts of the cupola a series of uniquely shaped bricks were to be laid in a special fishbone bond." "The Opera therefore contracted for hundreds of thousands of bricks and Filippo began designing special wooden molds in order to shape them."
I thought I remembered that detail, I would like to one day see this dome up close if I ever have the opportunity, just to see for myself what it looks like. Thanks, Heather. I learned alot from this book even getting past all the technical engineering parts, but it is such a major part of the book.
I find it interesting how it describes the wartime in the Middle Ages. Without much bloodshed, it became like a chess match with one side conceding that their position was technically vulnerable after they tried to outmaneuver one another. Too bad it couldn't be thus today!
My place is such a mess I can't find my book!!!!!!!!
Heather I must have glossed over the war in the book. It wasn't a massive conquest of troops and bloodshed as in other wars at other times.Monica, I am sure you will find the book.
Ok, I finally caught up and finished the book. It's true that when you get past all the technical details, there is a story behind it. It was full of facts that truly amazed me. I can appreciate the genius of Brunelleschi through his engineering, architecture, foresight, etc. They were right when they wrote on his tombstone: "Here lies the body of the great ingenius man Filippo Brunelleschi of Florence" Although I think of it as sad that they only refer to his ability to construct machinery and don't mention his architectural feats. In all, I enjoyed reading the book. Comparing it to other books, it could be a bit dry at times, but overall, I think it was worth the read.
Heather, it was a dry read for me as well, since I don't have any kind of engineering background, but I had to ask my husband about some of the technology, to get a feel for what they were. He is entombed in the church, itself, so I thought that was a fitting place for him to be entombed. But he died poor and the his rival became wealthy.
Well, you can't take it with you, so dying poor isn't the worst thing (I don't think he was ever a pauper, was he?). It seems to me he had a good life, doing what he loved and earning a lot of recognition, although on that score he could have earned even more. I would say he was cheated out of some well-earned credit and that was probably more important than the money (as long as he had enough).
I was just contrasting the two endings of both the rivals. He could have gotten more for doing his work, but he is entombed in that cathedral.
Sorry Robin, I didn't mean to criticize your post. I was only commenting on what came to my mind when I read yours. In any case, the world isn't always fair, as we all know and probably have a hard time accepting.
no need to apologize, sometimes I make hasty postings as well. Like everyone says life isn't fair, and that is far too truthful at times. Especially when we expect a different outcome in the case of Brunelleschi's I wanted to see him get his just rewards, and it may not have been financial, but it is evident that it is worth it to look at his work and just be amazed.
Took my friend to the doctor, urgent care then the emergency room yesterday so was able to catch up a bit on Bruneleschi's Dome. I enjoyed reading about the complex design and execution of the hexoganal bricks and their spiral formation in the dome and the relationship of the domes circles with the circles of hell in Dante's Divine Comedy.
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Books mentioned in this topic
History of Italian Renaissance Art (other topics)Brunelleschi's Dome: How a Renaissance Genius Reinvented Architecture (other topics)
