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Free Will vs Evil in in this world
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Gary F
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Sep 21, 2010 07:15AM
I admit to being almost a total novice to Christianity and the Bible. I am just wondering what people feel about the reply to why God allows so much evil and suffering in this world as being His need to give us free will?
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Gary F wrote: "I admit to being almost a total novice to Christianity and the Bible. I am just wondering what people feel about the reply to why God allows so much evil and suffering in this world as being His ne..."I don't think God needs to give us free will. I think it's one of His most precious gifts. Think about it this way. If you had a child and someone had to force that child to hug you, or tell you that he/she loved you - how much meaning would that love have?
Without free will there might not be as much suffering and sin, but there also wouldn't be real love either. God does intercede more often than we know or give Him credit for. However, sometimes we have to live and trust in Him during the crisis - not expect Him to take all the troubles away. A good parent doesn't even do that. How many times do we do our best learning from the consequences from our actions or even from what happened to someone else?
Well, those are a couple of my quick thoughts.
Lee wrote: "Gary F wrote: "I admit to being almost a total novice to Christianity and the Bible. I am just wondering what people feel about the reply to why God allows so much evil and suffering in this world ..."Thanks Lee. You make great points. I guess I just wonder about say a murder victim who never has the chance to learn from pain. My greatest hope is the God is simply calling them to Heaven sooner as part of His plan.
Gary F wrote: "Lee wrote: "Gary F wrote: "I admit to being almost a total novice to Christianity and the Bible. I am just wondering what people feel about the reply to why God allows so much evil and suffering in..."We can all point to things that seem random or meaningless to us - the murder victim you pointed out, a school bus crash, babies that die... the list can go on and on. The overall concept we need to grasp is that we can't see the whole picture. We don't have the wisdom that God does. I don't think that any of us would argue that we're as smart as God.
I heard two great illustrations for this kind of principle. The first is of a piece of finished needlepoint. When you look at the front of it you can see the design and it looks beautiful. Turn it over and you see crisscrossed threads, knots, hanging threads, crazy overlapping lines - you'd have little idea of the beautiful creation on the other side. Without all the messy work on the underside, you wouldn't have the pretty picture on the front though.
Sometimes life is like that. It may look like a mess, but it is all part of a grand design. A master is at work - and all the parts fit together in a way we may not be able to see right away. We can only guess at the meaning of those events. It's better to just trust that God will redeem them and ask Him to comfort you and their families.
That leads into my second illustration. Have you ever walked a hedge maze? When you're inside of them you can't see very far. It's disorientating. You can only see the walls closest to you. You can make the same turns over and over. God sees our life as if we're walking that hedge maze - but he's looking at it like us looking at a maze on paper. He can see the beginning, end, and all the twists and turns in between. He knows everything that is and was and will happen. If we give over control and let Him - He can guide us through the maze. No matter what happens, He promises to walk through it with us. Who could be a better guide? We have to trust Him though - and not lean on our own understanding.
Some things won't make sense to us until Heaven. That's part of what faith is all about. If we could figure it all out and control it all, then we would be God. We're not. We have to look at Him and what He did for us on the cross - and realize that He is trustworthy.
That doesn't mean you stop asking questions. Questions are good. Just look for the answers in the Word and in God instead of in what the "world" says.
Keep reading, praying and seeking. :o)
I agree with Hlu, the Bible is the best book. Get a really good one. A translation you can trust (ESV is very accurate and pretty easy to read - and a study version is even better) - a good concordance can help you look up anything you might be interested in. You have a built in devotional with the book of Proverbs. There are 31 - so you can do one for each day of the month and they can teach you so much. You can also go to tons of places that have reading plans to read through the Bible.
God bless you!
Gary F wrote: "I admit to being almost a total novice to Christianity and the Bible. I am just wondering what people feel about the reply to why God allows so much evil and suffering in this world as being His ne..."We live in a fallen world (The forbidden fruit incident). This is NOT Heaven. What's important is not the bad things that happen, but rather how you deal with the problem. Do you keep your faith or are you just a "fair-weather Christian"?
For people new to Christianity or just curious, there's a fairly good "A Very Short Course" on Christianity at http://vikingwaters.com/htmlpages/min...
It doesn't have ALL the answers (those are mostly in the Bible), but it's a good "introduction" since you get an overview and some basics.
Hlu wrote: "Gary F wrote: "Lee wrote: "Gary F wrote: "I admit to being almost a total novice to Christianity and the Bible. I am just wondering what people feel about the reply to why God allows so much evil a..."Thanks Hlu! I will get that book today
Lee thank you! I loved the illustrations and your suggestions!Al, thank you as well! I will checkout that link.
Gary F wrote: "Lee thank you! I loved the illustrations and your suggestions!Al, thank you as well! I will checkout that link."
:o) Happy to be helpful.
I admit to being almost a total novice to Christianity and the Bible. I am just wondering what people feel about the reply to why God allows so much evil and suffering in this world as being His need to give us free will?Hi Gary: You've gotten some great answers here, but here's one more idea. It's peculiar to Americans that God promised us a rose garden. People in other countries are prepared to (and often do) die for their faith. Life is not a party, but basic training. Take a look at Hebrews 11. "They were ragged and hungry and the world wasn't worthy of them." God honored the street person over the rich man because they maintained faith in Him in the midst of it.
Paul gave thanks for being allowed to suffer as Christ did. I'm not that mature. I just pray that when the time comes I'll honor God in the midst of it.
God gave us free will because He wanted us to choose Him freely and some times it isn't easy. But the same troubles come to everyone whether they follow God or not. My book, "One Touch from the Maker" tells stories of God's intervention in the worst things that can happen.
I'd rather be under His care than hanging all alone.
Hi Pat,Thank you for your very interesting reply. I will definitely check out your book!
Gary F wrote: "Hi Pat,Thank you for your very interesting reply. I will definitely check out your book!"
Thank you.
What a topic I have been struggling with for the past year. In my effort to understand, I have read some pretty good books. The one the helped me understand the most was Disappointment with God by Philip Yancey. Though he never comes to any specific answer, he does show how disappointment with God grows our faith. As others have pointed out, we simply do not know the big picture so any answers to the senseless violence, death, and disappointment seem trite in response.
Hi K,You are right. Here is a small and probably slight example of how God may give us a short term negative which ultimately could be a long term good. I was walking to the mall on Sat to see a movie and came to a crossing where cars are supposed to stop for pedestrians. As I approached the crosswalk a car driven by an older man was approaching and did not even slow down. Needless to say had I assummed he would and started to cross bad things might have happened. Now this is not the end of my story but only the beginning. After I crossed the street and made my way to the mall entrance I noticed this same man dropping off his wife who must work at the mall, and then driving off. I took the opportunity to tell the wife that her husband had blown through a stop sign and could have hit a pedestrian. She of course denied it and said she thought they stopped. I let her know they most certainly did not stop and need to be more considerate in the future to prevent an accident. She just walked off dismissively but I am certain she will mention this to her husband, even if it is in an irritated way. I also think that in the future this husband will be driving her to work again and will come to this same crosswalk and at least in the back of his mind will think be to stop as a result of his wife telling about our exchange. Perhaps this will prevent a horrible tragedy. Now all the things that had to happen to get me to that one moment of almost being hit are numerous. The normal lot I use was closed, upon first parking I saw another car park and felt that car was in a better space (front facing) so re-parked my car. Of course there were a number of other things that had to happen as well. So the possible lesson I get from this experience is that if God put me where I was as a way to possibly eliminate a future tragedy then this is more evidence of how we may not be able to understand the big picture of a small event in God's overall reasoning. Had I not been exploring my faith I would have not connected these events and just been happy I could vent to the wife.
Gary,Yes, I have seen evidence of this in my own life. While I personally was affected by tragedy out of the 9/11 attacks, I was blessed by them thousands of miles away. I was in college at the time of 9/11 and had no answers as to why such a horrific tragedy would be allowed to happen. But three short years later, I married a man whom I would have never met if it weren't for 9/11 happening. Does that make all those losses worth it? I don't think so, but it does make you wonder how many other stories like mine are out there full of blessings because of such a tragedy. And, as you pointed out, it is only through seeking God that we can come to terms with His almighty plan.
