My Adventures Through Theology and Beyond discussion

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Issues > Are Atheists and Theists also Agnostics?

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message 1: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
It would seem to me that all smart Theists and Atheists will admit that we just don't know if The Divine exists...sure we feel we have personal proof for God in our every day lives but the bottom line is we can't know for sure. So should we just admit that we are agnostics as well....or what makes them different then atheists and theists?


Kate (theshortone) (katetheshortone) It woulld seem to you not to all the other thousands of Christians that beg to differ.


message 3: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
why?


Kate (theshortone) (katetheshortone) Girl4beluga wrote: "why?"

Lets see because Atheists believe there is no God...every Atheist I have met and talked to believes in no God. And theists well Christians know there is a God and believe in it.


message 5: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Atheists say they belief there is no God...and Theists say they BELIEVE in a God.......No ONE DOES OR SHOULD TALK IN ABSOLUTES.


Kate (theshortone) (katetheshortone) Girl4beluga wrote: "Atheists say they belief there is no God...and Theists say they BELIEVE in a God.......No ONE DOES OR SHOULD TALK IN ABSOLUTES."

Even though they know there is an abosolute....and it happens all the time everyone does it and no one can stop it.


message 7: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Girl4beluga wrote: "Atheists say they belief there is no God...and Theists say they BELIEVE in a God.......No ONE DOES OR SHOULD TALK IN ABSOLUTES."

Did you realize you just made a statement of what you believe to be an absolute? Everyone believes in them, even if they deny it. It's too illogical to attempt to live without them completely.


message 8: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) And no, I do talk in absolutes. So does God's Swordmaiden, you, and everyone else on here. If we didn't, we wouldn't be arguing about this right now!


message 9: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Pansy wrote: "And no, I do talk in absolutes. So does God's Swordmaiden, you, and everyone else on here. If we didn't, we wouldn't be arguing about this right now!"

I know we talk in absolutes but that is because we are teenagers and have teen egotism.


message 10: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
God's Swordmaiden wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Atheists say they belief there is no God...and Theists say they BELIEVE in a God.......No ONE DOES OR SHOULD TALK IN ABSOLUTES."

Even though they know there is an abosolute....."


what are you talking about?


message 11: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Girl4beluga wrote: "Pansy wrote: "And no, I do talk in absolutes. So does God's Swordmaiden, you, and everyone else on here. If we didn't, we wouldn't be arguing about this right now!"

I know we talk in absolutes but..."


Teenagers?!?!? Teen egotism?!?!? I said EVERYONE talks in absolutes, not just us!!!! I know I'm not perfect, but teenagers are NOT the only ones who talk in absolutes. You cannot make a statement you actually believe in without referring to absolutes.


message 12: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Not really....there are a lot of people I know who don't speak about God in absolutes.


message 13: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Pansy wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Pansy wrote: "And no, I do talk in absolutes. So does God's Swordmaiden, you, and everyone else on here. If we didn't, we wouldn't be arguing about this right now!"

I know we..."


Yes basic Health class


message 14: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Girl4beluga wrote: "Not really....there are a lot of people I know who don't speak about God in absolutes."

But not all the time. Refer to post number 7 above, please.


message 15: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Girl4beluga wrote: "Pansy wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Pansy wrote: "And no, I do talk in absolutes. So does God's Swordmaiden, you, and everyone else on here. If we didn't, we wouldn't be arguing about this right now!..."

I don't care where you learned that, I don't agree with it. It's a foolish assumption from the minds of men.


message 16: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Pansy wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Pansy wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Pansy wrote: "And no, I do talk in absolutes. So does God's Swordmaiden, you, and everyone else on here. If we didn't, we wouldn't be arguing a..."

what??? That we have teen egotism?


message 17: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Pansy wrote: "Girl4beluga wrote: "Not really....there are a lot of people I know who don't speak about God in absolutes."

But not all the time. Refer to post number 7 above, please."


ahhh yes..i didn't understand that comment..that's why I didn't respond.


message 18: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) "There is no absolute Truth" is an empirical statement. Its very nature contradicts what it says.


message 19: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Pansy wrote: ""There is no absolute Truth" is an empirical statement. Its very nature contradicts what it says."

I never said there was no absolute Truth...in fact I believe there is one...I just don't think we can know what it is.


message 20: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) It all comes to the same thing, doesn't it?


message 21: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
comes from what?


message 22: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) It doesn't matter whether you say there is no absolute Truth or if you say no one should claim to know absolute Truth because either way it prohibits anyone from saying their opinion is the correct one, unless you use it conditionally, which is even worse.


message 23: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
You can say I THINK........blah blah blah...but you can't say I KNOW...blah blah blah


message 24: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) But I do know many things. I can base them on observation or on God's Word.


message 25: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Ahhhhh Yes see now you are assuming the Bible IS GOD'S ACTUAL WORD


message 26: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Yes. Do you want to ask what I think that means or are you going to assume I take some weird extremist standpoint?


message 27: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
sure what does that mean to you?


message 28: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) I believe that God guided those who wrote the original documents, but they didn't know that they were being used to write God's Word. The people who wrote it were fallible like the rest of us, but God isn't. I assume you agree that God is perfect and makes no mistakes?


message 29: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
No, I feel God surpasses perfection.


message 30: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) Wow! That's a concept. I like that. :-) I guess that could be true. He definitely surpasses my human view of perfection, I suppose.


message 31: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
EXACTLY!!!


message 32: by austen (new)

austen (oncebef0re) I like it and I will keep thinking about it.


message 33: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
:-)


Rachel (aka. Kaiserin Sisi) (looney-lovegood) | 297 comments It depends on how you view agnostics. If you say that they don't know if there is or isn't a god, then yes, everyone is agnostic. However, if you view them as choosing not to take a side in the issue, then no, not everyone is agnostic.


message 35: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
hmmmm..yeah I go with the first one


message 36: by Micah (last edited Oct 14, 2010 07:24PM) (new)

Micah (multivoxmuse) | 48 comments While I agree with you that some people label themselves wrongly, lets make some distinctions here.
As is illustrated in this diagram.



you can be a theist or an atheist. There are two qualities in each of these categories: gnostic or agnostic. So, you can be a gnostic atheist, or an agnostic atheist. Gnostic atheists don't believe in God but admit they don't know. These would be the people you were describing in your first comment. Or you can either be a gnostic theist or an agnostic theist. Agnostic theists believe in God but also admit they do not know. Obviously gnostic atheists know for sure there is no God or gods, and gnostic theists know for sure there is a God or gods.


message 37: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
Hey, Welcome to the group. I must admit I have never heard of a gnostic before, thanks. Wow and I really like the diagram. I look forward to your posts in other topics.


message 38: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
hmmmm so the gnostic theists/atheists would be more like the radicals and extremists.


message 39: by Micah (new)

Micah (multivoxmuse) | 48 comments Girl4beluga wrote: "Hey, Welcome to the group."

Thanks! I'm looking forward to civil discussion.

"I must admit I have never heard of a gnostic before, thanks. Wow and I really like the diagram. I look forward to your posts in other topics."

I fixed my crappy editing too, so check it out again :)


message 40: by Micah (new)

Micah (multivoxmuse) | 48 comments Girl4beluga wrote: "hmmmm so the gnostic theists/atheists would be more like the radicals and extremists."

Gnosticism won't necessarily lead to extremism, but yes you can't be an extremist without being a gnostic.


message 41: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
lol yes it really hasn't gotten too heated here, and I assumed you would. Ummm lets see, I am looking for people to discuss artificial intelligence and um I am really liking the video section. Oh and don't forget the evolution topic ;-)


message 42: by Courtney (new)

Courtney | 336 comments so we are all agnostic?


message 43: by Girl4beluga, Beet Juice!!! (new)

Girl4beluga | 2285 comments Mod
i think you are


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