Planning for our Next Major Read, part 4

[Kathy]

Okay, guys, I'm here to tell you that if you're as dim as me you won't get Moby-Dick until the THIRD time you read it. So don't give up. Also, visit New Bedford and Nantucket to get the right atmosphere... Thar she blows!

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Kathy wrote: "Okay, guys, I'm here to tell you that if you're as dim as me you won't get Moby-Dick until the THIRD time you read it. So don't give up. Also, visit New Bedford and Nantucket to get the right atm..."

I visited Melville's house, 'Arrowhead', in Pittsfield, Massachusetts where he wrote the aforementioned indecipherable book about the big fish. It was a cool house, and lovingly tended by the local historical society. I actually sat out in the yard and read Edith Wharton short stories for a couple of hours (I was attending the Edith Wharton conference in Pittsfield that year).

[[deleted user]]

I LOVE Moby-Dick! It's way up there on my "to re-read" list. I hope it'll rise to the top here one day because I'd love to find out what others think it's all about. I prefer this sort of indirect philosophy book to one such as Magic Mountain, where the characters sit around talking about philosophy and so on. (Though I always thought I'd love to spend a few months in a place like that -- but only only they'd let you choose your dinner companions!)

[Laurel]

Everyman wrote: "Patrice wrote: "LOL! Is it really Moby-dick? I've never read Moby-Dick!"

Boy does that bring back memories. Laurel thinks Moby Dick is truly great. (I think I remember her saying that several ..."

I love Moby-Dick. I think he and Huck are a tandem for the GAN.

[Kathy]

M wrote: "I LOVE Moby-Dick! It's way up there on my "to re-read" list. I hope it'll rise to the top here one day because I'd love to find out what others think it's all about. I prefer this sort of indirect ..."

Yay! Me too. I think Melville is really funny! Bartleby the Scrivener. A HOOT!

[[deleted user]]

Rereading Moby Dick last year, one of the most surprising things for me was how funny parts of it are. Perhaps if/when we read Huckleberry Finn we will find that a book many of us found mostly comic when we first read it turns out to be pretty serious.

[Rosemary]

Man, this is hard. If I knew there'd be a runoff vote, I'd hold on to my Magic Mountain vote. But if I know there won't be one, I'll put in my bit for my preference of the top two. I'd rather read the Malory than Huck Finn- I've read Huck Finn, and while I liked it fine, it's not anywhere near the top of my 'to re-read' pile, if it's in that pile at all . . .

[Everyman]

S. Rosemary wrote: "Man, this is hard."

I know. I think most of us feel your pain. But isn't it nice to have such a good selection instead of having to ask which of the books I would least dislike reading?

BTW, I'm thinking for the next poll to include all the books which came in a close second or third in previous polls. This would include The Canterbury Tales from the first poll, The Aeneid from the third poll (in the second poll the run-off was so close that we read both; Tristram Shandy from number 4, and whatever comes in second here. Toss in the moderator's picks (Laurel and I each get to nominate a book each poll; it's the only perk of power!), and we would have an interesting set of books all of which have shown serious interest. That would really be a hard choice!

[Roger]

Don't go looking in Malory for the original Arthur stories. Those lie far back in the Dark Ages, possibly deriving from an historical commander who led the slightly Romanized Britons against the invading Saxons around 500 AD. The earliest mentions of Arthur may date to a century or two after this; some surviving Welsh Arthur stories are from around 1100. Arthur became a hero of folklore, fighting giants and so forth. In his History of the Kings of Britian (c. 1138), Geoffrey of Monmouth produced the first narrative of Arthur's reign, filled with extravagant invention that may or may not be his own. After that Arthur and his court became one of the two favorite settings for romantic tales (the other being Charlemagne and his). Morte didn't come along until 1485.

All this is from Wikipedia, which seems to have a pretty high-quality article on King Arthur.

[Everyman]

Roger wrote: "Don't go looking in Malory for the original Arthur stories. Those lie far back in the Dark Ages, ..."

Good point. I think the reason Malory gets credited with originating them is that he collected and expanded disparate pieces of the legends, the original sources of which aren't readily available to non-scholars, since most of that writing is in early English or Latin. So Malory is as far back as most common readers will be able to go historically in looking into the background of the story. But you're right, its real roots are much deeper in antiquity.

By the way, Merlin wasn't initially part of the Arthur legend, but was an entirely separate Welsh legend. It got merged into the Arthur legend somehow, but while Malory gives him an important role in the early books of the Morte, he quickly fades out of sight and isn't seen again.

[Penny]

I'm up to read Huck Finn if it comes to that, I don't really remember it, the thing I remeber most is that I like Tom Sawyer better. To the person that ask I'm from a Non-English speaking country, and it is not a requierd reading, I did read TS for school, but most of the mandatory books are of course from Spain or Latin America.

I've tried to read Moby Dick twice, 3 times if you count my frist naive attempt in my early teens, and I have given up on it, I don't think there is a way I can ever finish it.

[[deleted user]]

@Penny: The key is to skip the parts about whaling!

@Everyman: Incorporating the second place finishers into the next poll sounds like a good idea. I know I would be interested in Magic Mountain someday. Just not as much now. Though if the group chooses it I will go along.

[Penny]

LOL Zeke, I heard about that but after my last attempt, maybe some day I'll try again like in 10 or 15 years.

[Adam]

Everyman wrote: "Kathy wrote: "Can I lobby for Malory? "

Certainly you can. Very much so.

I guess my concern, which may be a non-concern, is whether we will have enough active readers and participants for it ..."

Well, I for one, am facinated by the Arthurian mythos. I am currently reading Chretien de Troyes Aruthurian material. I love how these myths continue to be remade and retold in forma after form in our culture today. When I taught Brit Lit in high school we watched an episode of the science fiction series Babylon 5, "A Late Delivery from Avalon" to kick off discussion of how these stories still impact us today and how the TV show assumed the same would be true well into the future.

Linguistics is an area I have studied formally at the graduate level, so this is an aspect I would love to discuss with a group.

I will probably try to read along with whatever book is chosen, but this one would guarantee my participation in the conversation.

[Adam]

And after reading the comments on the Mann, I'd have to say it confirms what I feared (I usually don't like books from that time period), and so that's the one I probably wouldn't bother reading. Twain I might give another try, but I've never really enjoyed. Virgil I would go with. But Malory is still the one that is most appealing, at least since the Mabinogion isn't on the list of choices!

[Grace Tjan]

Adam wrote: "And after reading the comments on tha Mann, I'd have to say it confirms what I feared (I usually don't like books from that time period), and so that's the one I probably wouldn't bother reading. ..."

I'll read Huck and attempt Mallory, if either of them wins. But I'd pass on the Mann.

Good idea to include the runner ups in previous votes.

[Adam]

Come on voters, Malory only need three more votes to overtake Twain!

[[deleted user]]

Zeke wrote: "@Penny: The key is to skip the parts about whaling!"

LOL!

[[deleted user]]

I guess we have our answer regarding when the poll closes: No more vote changes are being accepted. I was about to switch from Huck to Mann, I don't even know why, but too late.

[Aranthe]

Roger wrote: "Don't go looking in Malory for the original Arthur stories. Those lie far back in the Dark Ages, possibly deriving from an historical commander who led the slightly Romanized Britons against the i..."

Which is one reason I enjoyed the the movie with Clive Owens and Ioan Gruffudd (despite Keira Knightley in woad). It took some liberties but I appreciated the attempt to retrieve the historical setting of Late Antiquity rather than falling back on the usual medieval one. And Stellan Skarsgård made an excellent Saxon invader, gave me the shivers.

[Ibis3]

Magic Mountain: This book was on an original reading list for an undergraduate lit course I took on myth & symbol but was substituted with some other book (I don't recall why), so it's always seemed like a book I particularly should read since I should have already read it in some parallel universe. But the more you talk about it, the less I want to read it. I have a distaste for books about sick people and disease, so the more you go on about that the more I want to chuck it to the bottom of Mt. TBR so it never sees the light of day.

Moby Dick: Amazing book. Don't skip the whaling parts (it's not only fascinating, but I think skipping would screw up the pacing and the sense of connection with Ishmael).

Huck Finn: I never read as a kid or for school. I read it only in 2007 (listened to it as an audiobook actually) & it made my "Top Books" list of that year.

Personally, I'd vote for another random list rather than a runners-up list next time around, but that's just me.

[Everyman]

Well, 14-12 is too close to declare a winner, with 12 votes for other books. (Particularly since there was almost a switch from Huck to Mann which would make it 13-12). So we'll have to have a run-off.

But, I'm going to toss a little spice into the picture. It's a risk, but let's do it.

In the past, when two books have been really close and way ahead of the rest, we've decided to do both. That's not the case here, since these weren't that far ahead, and some people have expressed a significant dislike for one or the other of them.

So, there will be three choices on the poll. If you want to read just one of them but don't want to read the other, vote for your preference. But I'll add a choice to read them both.

So, the poll will have the following choices:

1. I vote for reading Huck Finn, then a new set of choices for the next reading.

2. I vote for Le Morte d'Arthur, then a new set of choices for the next reading.

3. I vote for reading Huck Finn and then Le Morte d'Arthur as our next two books.

A simple plurality will win. That is, whichever choice gets the most votes will be the outcome, even if it doesn't get a majority of the votes.

I'll leave the poll open through the weekend, so will end it on the 20th, which seems to mean it will close sometime after midnight on the 19th.

Have fun, and lobbying, as always, is definitely permitted.

I have no idea whether this is really a good idea or not, but we'll see!

[Penny]

If #3 wins will it be in that order?

[Everyman]

Penny wrote: "If #3 wins will it be in that order?"

Yes, I decided that arbitrarily. But also because I sort of thought that if we did them both Huck would be a good interlude between the Oresteia and Morte. Though I suppose if the vote for both wins and there's strong support for switching the order, we could always change it. Nothing is set in stone until the chisel has hit the rock.

[Penny]

Everyman wrote: "Penny wrote: "If #3 wins will it be in that order?"

Yes, I decided that arbitrarily. But also because I sort of thought that if we did them both Huck would be a good interlude between the Orestei..."

Thanks, I like that order.

[Everyman]

You people are driving me crazy! The poll results so far are totally inconclusive. Get in there and create a clear winner, please!

[[deleted user]]

There is a clear winner--Huck Finn by 3:1. What you need is a separate poll for what to do after that :)

[Penny]

LOL, I forgot to vote before, I see I did not help 9 to 8.

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

I didn't either. Now it is 9 to 8 to 7.

[Penny]

Christopher wrote: "I didn't either. Now it is 9 to 8 to 7."

Everyman is gonna pop an artery or something, :P.

[Everyman]

Penny wrote: "Everyman is gonna pop an artery or something, :P."

The "Or Something" may be to say a plague on all your houses, invalidate the poll, and just choose a work I want to read so there. :)

[[deleted user]]

Everyman is starting to sound a lot like the Greek gods!

[Penny]

Everyman wrote:" The "Or Something" may be to say a plague on all your houses, invalidate the poll, and just choose a work I want to read so there. :)"


Dictatorship in sight. Sigh! So the MM it is. :(

[[deleted user]]

Penny wrote: "Everyman wrote:" The "Or Something" may be to say a plague on all your houses, invalidate the poll, and just choose a work I want to read so there. :)"


Dictatorship in sight. Sigh! So the MM it i..."

Just what I was thinking. Very sneaky. ;)

[Rosemary]

Penny wrote: "Everyman wrote:" The "Or Something" may be to say a plague on all your houses, invalidate the poll, and just choose a work I want to read so there. :)"


Dictatorship in sight. Sigh! So the MM it is..."

Sweet! Now the poll is 9-9-6. AHAHAHAHAHA!!

Magic Mountain is lobbying from the grave . . .

[Everyman]

S. Rosemary wrote: Sweet! Now the poll is 9-9-6. AHAHAHAHAHA!!
"

Just for that, if we wind up doing Morte, you have just volunteered to co-moderate it.

I would have you to Huck, but Zeke has already been drafted for that and since he didn't kick and scream loudly enough right away, he lost his chance to object.

[Kathy]

Now look here! The UK government is threatening its citizens with this kind of a palaver about the voting system and I'm getting the heebee-jeebees when I look at what is happening on this site!! Sometimes, the confusion is caused by the kind of questions you ask... and sometimes by the way you interpret the answers... So can I interpret the results that seem to be emerging?

If you add the voters for option one and two, you get the people who want to read Huck Finn (10+9 at present). And if you add the voters for option one and three, you get the people who want to read Malory (10+6 at present). Both of these results yield a majority of those who have voted. I.e. more than half the group wants to read Huck Finn AND more than half the group wants to read Malory. Given that the number wanting to read Huck Finn is slightly larger, it seems fair to do that first and Malory second.

NOW, can someone give me a definition of the various forms of proportional representation and a speedy end to coalition government??

[[deleted user]]

Kathy wrote: "Given that the number wanting to read Huck Finn is slightly larger, it seems fair to do that first and Malory second."

A large majority (10+9) has said they want to read Huck Finn first. Whether they want to read Mallory next or not is irrelevant. It's a separate question.

If we are getting into flawed voting systems, this poll is biased AGAINST a clear answer because it splits the vote for Huck Finn. There should be 4 options: Twain only, Mallory only, Twain and then Mallory, Mallory and then Twain. That would mess things up nicely!

[Adam]

Well, I only voted for the both/and option because I wanted to be fair to the other side (and I figured I ought to get around to reading more than the first chapted of Huck Finn someday). I really do not care about, or for, Twain in most instances (The Prince and the Pauper being the one exception). If it comes down to the end and it looks like the nice-to-both-sides option will not win, I wll change my vote to Mallory only since it is the only one of teh two I really care about. For now, I'm leaving my vote on being nice.

[Kathy]

Dear Kate

It's not a separate question! If you check the options, you'll see that we've been asked to vote on the next TWO books. And the way it has been worded means that the votes for BOTH books have been split, not just Twain. People who vote for option one are stating that they want to read BOTH books. There's no doubt that a majority of the group wants to read Twain. But there's also no doubt that a majority of the group wants to read Mallory.

[[deleted user]]

Kathy,
My point wasn't whether most people want to read both. It was that a large majority wants to read Huck FIRST. The way the poll questions are set up obscures this, making it harder to get a clear answer.

Now other people besides Adam may really want to read only Mallory and are just being nice, but we don't know this. Other people may be being nice the other direction, voting for Huck but willing to give Mallory a go to be "fair".

A better way to get a clear answer would have been a straight up/down vote for Huck or Morte with a follow on poll for how we want to select what we read after that.

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

I think we need Athena to drop her pebble and decide this question, before the Furies descend upon us...

[Rosemary]

Everyman wrote: "S. Rosemary wrote: Sweet! Now the poll is 9-9-6. AHAHAHAHAHA!!
"

Just for that, if we wind up doing Morte, you have just volunteered to co-moderate it.

I would have you to Huck, but Zeke has al..."

Ruh roh! Run!

[Everyman]

What all this means is that this is the last time I'm going to try to get creative with voting. If I ever try this sort of stunt again, somebody please bash me over the head with a Brown Betty teapot.

Zounds!

[Laurel]

Everyman wrote: "What all this means is that this is the last time I'm going to try to get creative with voting. If I ever try this sort of stunt again, somebody please bash me over the head with a Brown Betty tea..."

With pleasure. Madge, want to help me?

[MadgeUK]

Laurele wrote: "Madge, want to help me......"

A rubber one perhaps - I am a pacifist after all:D.

[Linda2]

Is Mallory written in Middle English, or in translation?
I think I just changed the vote.

I have a nice white Rockingham teapot.

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Rochelle wrote: "Is Mallory written in Middle English, or in translation?
I think I just changed the vote.

I have a nice white Rockingham teapot."

Mine is in the Middle English.

And do you really want to break your white Rockingham teapot?

[Linda2]

I don't want to read it in Middle English. Did that with Canterbury Tales in college, and it was agony. No translations?

My teapot won't break. His head is soft. :) We pounded it a lot at that other book club.

[Captain Sir Roddy, R.N. (Ret.)]

Rochelle wrote: "I don't want to read it in Middle English. Did that with Canterbury Tales in college, and it was agony. No translations?

My teapot won't break. His head is soft. :) We pounded it a lot at that oth..."

Rochelle, I suppose there are translations, I shouldn't know though. It is like me always going back and slowly, but surely, working through Seamus Heaney's rendition of Beowulf with the side-by-side Anglo-Saxon and modern translation. It is worth every ounce of pain and frustration.

Thanks for the tip on our beloved Everyman too, always good to understand the tactical situation one is faced with. ;-)