The Phantom of the Opera
discussion
She should have chosen the phantom
Arie wrote: "Am I alone in this belief? I think that Christine chose completely the wrong person, the phantom and her had a special relationship that was dark and full of chemistry. I was heart broken that she ..."I was upset as well that she didn't choose Phantom.
Tokunbo wrote: "Thanks Claire! I watched the Gerard Butler one. How about you? I found the book online, I'm going to read it as soon as I can. It's so disturbing how many people don't realize that this is an abusi..."This is basically the reason why I gave up arguing against the Phantom so early on. People are delusional when it comes to certain "characters" in fiction, just slap a pretty face on them and they'll justify anything.
Best example of this is the hoard of Tom Hiddelston Loki fans. Yes I know its sort of on the other side of the spectrum of fiction, but there are people that actually feel bad for this character and that he's somehow justified for trying to commit massive genocide TWO TIMES!!!! Yeah hes an attractive man and a great character, but don't try to justify him.
The best way to describe the Phantom is his hallway to his lair. It looked really magical and lovely when he was taking Christine down there, but once the mask comes off and Christine is basically forced, dragging and screaming down that dark, murky and horrid hall do we see what's really going on. The Phantom is a master at illusions and manipulation and he has manipulated the very fanbase of the book.
I totally get you Brandon, but if you're a real Phantom fan, you don't think reasonably. I willingly admit it; the Phantom is pretty terrifying, but you still feel bad for him.
Choosing the Phantom would likely have been the equivalent of Anastasia Steele picking Christian Grey in E.L. James's Fifty Shades of Grey trilogy, I think. He's the kind of man a woman dates because she enjoys the danger, the edge, the unknown, the vague veiled threat to her safety.
As passive, dull, and predictable as Raoul was, though, he was the safer choice, not only socially but also literally. There was no chance she'd wake up one morning and find him standing over her with blood on his hands from having murdered somebody. I have to agree there.
As passive, dull, and predictable as Raoul was, though, he was the safer choice, not only socially but also literally. There was no chance she'd wake up one morning and find him standing over her with blood on his hands from having murdered somebody. I have to agree there.
Music was what brought Erik and Christine together, and the fact that he declared he loved her. But Christine loved Raoul; what she felt for Erik was more pity. I personally love Christine and Raoul together, and believe Erik seemed more of a father-figure to Christine.
Tokunbo wrote: "Brandon wrote: "Tokunbo wrote: "Thanks Claire! I watched the Gerard Butler one. How about you? I found the book online, I'm going to read it as soon as I can. It's so disturbing how many people don..."Okay I have finally read the book and yeah, he's pretty messed up in the book. I think everyone sort of glosses over the messed up things he does in it compared to the musical. We can consider the musical Erik light ha ha.
But in the musical and the 2004 movie Erik basically raises and manipulate Christine from a very young age. Even in the book he uses her religious and superstitious nature against her coaxing her into loving him, its sick.
Its like people saying they would willing let Dracula drink their blood, you obviously haven't read the book to know that Dracula-and this might sound extreme-is basically a rapist who comes into your room at night and mentally physically violates you repentantly.
Yeah Erik is a great character and I love him, but I also love Freddy Kruger doesn't mean I have to agree with him blindly.
Has everyone forgotten his fiery torture chamber of death?? Yes I love him as a character but for Christine to willingly choose him as a romantic partner would be inconceivable.
Allison wrote: "Has everyone forgotten his fiery torture chamber of death?? Yes I love him as a character but for Christine to willingly choose him as a romantic partner would be inconceivable."You see he was just "misunderstood" so its completely warranted apparently. Man maybe I should mope around and then I'll get off for murder
Brandon wrote: "Tokunbo wrote: "Brandon wrote: "Tokunbo wrote: "Thanks Claire! I watched the Gerard Butler one. How about you? I found the book online, I'm going to read it as soon as I can. It's so disturbing how..."You deserve a round of applause.
And your rapist analogy with Dracula really isn't extreme at all; it's right on target. Vampires have been used as sexual metaphors for nearly as long as the existence of the vampire myth itself.
So agree with you guys! Erik and Christine would make an awful match as husband and wife. In the 2004 film Erik come across much more violent than I had originally thought him to be, yet he didn't seem to show his emotions that clearly as I remember it. However, the performance at the Royal Albert Hall will still be the best Phantom film I have ever seen. Those actors really portrayed heart-breaking emotion and made me see the whole love tangle in a totally new light.
I agree with a lot of you, I love the Phantom, and although he is a crazy murderer, he was made that way. You aren't born a killer, your childhood or life in fact is messed up along the way and it was because of his face, something he cant control. He's also quite foreign to love and he's probably never felt anything like what he felt for Christine so that's most likely why he is obsessive. You must also think that in the end he turns good because one person, the girl he loves, shows compassion to him, if no one showed compassion or anything but hate to you (all because of your face) I'm sure you would not be a nice person either!
I've also learned that if someone is an amazing singer they can't be truly ugly inside hence the fact that he is a FANTASTIC singer. No one who is ugly can sing like an angel.
I understand that Raoul offered a better life and he was her childhood sweetheart but look at all the things Erik has done for her, he wrote an opera and a list of other things. And although some things may seem creepy its because he has never felt this way, and he does not move on, he loves her forever.
I think she was in love with Raoul and with Erik, she just was afraid to love Erik because either she wanted to be accepted into society, she didn't want to hurt him, or maybe she was just afraid of loving Erik (which can or cannot be a bad thing).
Honestly I think they should make a two part ending where Erik is portrayed a little more openly and they explain his actions, because he's not perfect no one is. I am not saying what he did was right, but considering his way of life and how he ahs lived, he knows no other life but of darkness and hate and cruelty.
I may leave more comment but I just love Erik and think Christine should be with him because catering to a different side may be good if you change the story a bit.
Overall love the movie and book a lot.
~Dev~
Even if he was made that way from society cruelty or whatever, he was still a murderer. I believe Christine felt an affection for him as a friend or as if he was her father. But when eh betrayed her, tried to kill Raoul, and became a monster to her eyes, she felt deceived. Erik betrayed her trust, and I believe Christine never loved him in the romantic sense.
Nikita wrote: "Even if he was made that way from society cruelty or whatever, he was still a murderer. I believe Christine felt an affection for him as a friend or as if he was her father. But when eh betrayed he..."Well I get that but she did kiss him to show him compassion, and since he actually felt a true act if compassion towards him he knew what right from wrong finally. That's why he let her go and let them be happy, because he wanted the person he loved top be happy.
I get your point too :) But the way I see the kiss, was that she was doing it for Raoul; to save him. She had to sort of force herself to do it, to convince him (Erik) she'd stay with him and he would let Raoul live. Christine kissed Erik to save the one she truly loved: Raoul. That mixed with compassion for his dejected state. But then that's the way I see it :)
I am glad to see that this topic is still getting attention 4 years later XD I agree with many of you and really this is a complex situation.I haven't seen a lot of different versions of PTO (I'm starting on the book by Gaston, I've seen plays and the movie which I love) but I strongly believed that Christine should have stayed with the Phantom. However, during that time period how could they share a life together? He was shunned his entire life, never knew love or compassion and had to hide away in the dark hidden from all because of his disfigurement. Where would they have lived together? Christine would have been shunned and hated for loving this so called "monster".
The fact he's considered a murderer which he kind of is...but I'm not bothered by that at all. It is said tell a child he will grow up to be a murderer and he will, tell a man he is a monster and he will begin to believe it and act like one. He killed yes, but for the sake of being with Christine he didn't want anyone to take her away from him, the only person who ever listened to him and understood his loneliness. It's a hard moral decision, but what would you do for the one you loved? Also, the fact that the world made him who he was is indeed true. How could he learn to show mercy or compassion when no one has ever taught him or showed him that. At the end Christine kisses him and shows him what he never knew and he lets her and Raoul go. Why? Because he understood what compassion and true love at that point was.
I felt that Christine led him on a lot as well. She was in love with his voice, his music, his dark mystery. She said such kind words and then goes around and confesses her love for Raoul? In the end (if you've seen Love Never Dies) we come to find out that indeed
>>>SPOILERISH>>>
Christine would have been better off staying with the Phantom. Raoul gets into trouble with drinking and gambling and wastes all of Christine's money away. They have a son but it ends up being The Phantom's son (Christine found him the night before her wedding with Raoul and they made love. Unfortunately The Phantom left ashamed of what he was and Christine awoke to swear her love to him and follow him wherever he would go, but he had left in the morning).
He reunites with her later however and finds out that he has a son. It's a kind of sad, but happy ending. Mostly happy. I suggest if you haven't seen LND to do so.
SynysterShadows1213 wrote: "I am glad to see that this topic is still getting attention 4 years later XD I agree with many of you and really this is a complex situation.I haven't seen a lot of different versions of PTO (I'..."
I know I'm also glad this conversation is so active :)
Let me say that I have seen LND, and with all due respect I think the story is wildly far fetched, ridiculously contradictive of the original, and basically just silly. I do love the music, and have nothing against the actors, but the story makes me mad! It's very hard to miss the impossibility and conjecture of that story line even if you're Team Phantom.
However that's another topic: visit the LND discussion for more info about what many of us think :)
I used to want Christine and the phantom together but as I got older, I realised it's not right. Yes, Erik really loves her but the relationship they have together is unhealthy. Erik was really possessive and mentally unstable. I think Christine did the right thing at the end. Imagine if she chose to stay with the phantom, that would mean she has to stay underground, isolated from society. I really felt sorry for the phantom. He was lonely and he let her go because he loves her.
Sandi *~The Pirate Wench~* wrote: "So true Gemma! I actually like some of the sequels as Erik finds happiness in these..but alas a piece of his heart is always with Christine..."What sequel? Is it a book? Share please. :D
Please do not beat me for this opinion. I love the book and if I had to chose I probably would have gone with Erik. However I think that Christine probably should have not picked either one of them. Book Raoul seem like of wussy/stalker/we are doing it my way sort of guy and sweet Erik is Batman villain crazy. There was a few times when I was reading, I thought Christine needed a much wider dating pool.
Brenda wrote: "Please do not beat me for this opinion. I love the book and if I had to chose I probably would have gone with Erik. However I think that Christine probably should have not picked either one of them..."Interesting :) When I watched the 2004 movie I kinda felt that Gerard and Patrick weren't taking their roles seriously enough, and Emmy didn't deserve them. But then that's to do with their singing/acting, and their take on their characters.
I can completely seen and understand why she chose Raoul. Perhaps in the same situation I would have too--it's hard to tell as I have never been faced with that choice. Yet, I think the more interesting and romantic choice would have been the Phantom. Though perhaps the most "passionate" relationships are not always the healthiest? Not sure if his intensity would have died down, had his love been returned at the very beginning? And while he is a murderer and there is no excuse for that, I wonder if one could argue that he acted in self-defense when he killed his tormentor and captor as a child? But he did seem ready to kill Raoul but luckily a better part of his personality came through at that moment. Overall, while the optimistic, romantic part of me thinks Erik would have been the more interesting and truer choice in a sense, perhaps he is too volatile to sustain a healthy relationship. I mean he began by kidnapping her...and as they say: "That which starts bad, ends bad." Also, Raoul did show that he loved and cared for her by being willing to fight the phantom and save her!
In my opinion and view of Erik's deformity, I feel very bad for him, as he explains that throughout his whole life all the world ever thought him was hate because of how people the viewed him. This is like what the 19th century, and let's no forget the a lot of people judged with knowing someone or something; I can understand what a lot people's comments mean when they mention Erik's obsession of murdering, but come on he grew up lonely without any family or friends and the world rejected him without ever once showing him compassion or love.That's pretty harsh on him, so of course hate is the only thing people ever treated him with because of his deformity. Now when he meets Christine, I don't necessarily think that he only loves her for her beauty and voice no. I think that since she understands his loneliness and sadness he feels like she was the only one who could love him than any other woman. But of course and obviously Raoul wins Christine. I don't think the Phantom/Erik would have abused Christine if she choose him; but of course good-looking guys always get the girl and that's what pisses me off!
And then poor Erik is left broken hearted. I think that he deserved Christine more than Raoul.
Arie wrote: "Am I alone in this belief? I think that Christine chose completely the wrong person, the phantom and her had a special relationship that was dark and full of chemistry. I was heart broken that she ..."I agree with you 100% Erik has basically been there for Christine ever since she came to the opera house and then all the sudden Raoul came in and it became about how they used to be childhood sweethearts. There's the key word in it 'used to be' they didn't last back then so why not give someone else a chance. Instead of choosing money and power she should of chosen freedom, beauty and creativity. My heart broke when she chosed Raoul over Erik, it shouldn't have mattered what he's done or what he looked like, Erik in my eyes was just a poor person that has went through so much in his life and he deserves to have love.
Arie wrote: "Am I alone in this belief? I think that Christine chose completely the wrong person, the phantom and her had a special relationship that was dark and full of chemistry. I was heart broken that she ..."I believe the story was allegorical. Christine, a name which means "light-bearer," is confronted with the choice many women struggle to make when they fall in love. They can choose to rescue one that has great potential for passion (represented by Erik) or they can choose stability and security (represented by Raoul.) Both men actually use her for their own selfish needs, yet both ultimately offer her the gift of love by making a sacrifice. Psychologically, the tragic figure of Erik holds the greatest potential for an enduring love that eclipses a lifetime, but the safety offered by Raoul is the temptation Christine must confront. In choosing Erik in the end, Christine bears the light of hope by showing him he can be loved. Unfortunately, Erik has no choice but to let her leave as love isn't love unless it is freely given.
The ending fails us because we intuitively know that both men used her and both men ultimately sacrificed for her, but SHE fails by leaving after giving Erik the ring. She feels security with Raoul, but the passion that emerges in her kiss with Erik would have compelled her to stay with Erik through the struggle of his life. Sadly, life does not offer neat, tidy choices and this is often the type of conflicted existence women face when they choose a life of security over a life of deep passion. It takes courage to face such a life, and Christine has suffered too much loss in her life to take such a risk. In all likelihood, she would have still felt a deep loss by abandoning Erik.
Psychologically, all people we encounter whether we believe them to be evil or good mold us into who we ultimately become. Christine would be as conflicted in her late sixties when she died as she was in her late teens when she chose Raoul over Erik. This is beautifully displayed by that last gesture of the Phantom returning the ring to the only bride he ever gave his heart to and Raoul's acquiescence of her love for the Phantom by presenting the music box on her grave.
Love is not always neat and tidy, but our choices are usually the right ones in the end. We become what we are destined to be, and if a man loves a woman unselfishly, whether because she rejected him or chose him, both become what God meant for them to be as beings of love. Love sacrifices for the other.
Erik all the way. Yes, he was slightly insane, but he loved her with all his heart. I wasn't satisfied with his ending. I felt Erik deserved a happy ending, but I guess it was a realistic ending. The guy who deserves the girl doesn't always get her, and some people never find love again in their life. I always burst into tears when watching and reading.
Maria wrote: "Arie wrote: "Am I alone in this belief? I think that Christine chose completely the wrong person, the phantom and her had a special relationship that was dark and full of chemistry. I was heart bro..."Wow! This was a lot deeper than I would have expected in a forum like this (no offense intended to the Goodreads community!) This was a well-thought out, deep, and meaningful look at this book, and something I had never considered in this way before. Thanks so much for sharing with us! This was awesome :)
I love this novel - very much. I also love Christine more than the guys, there, I said it! I do like the Phantom AND Raoul. I believe she loved Raoul, as a woman loves a man (being in that age, and that time, I can't imagine love for her other than that one she shared with Raoul) and that she pitied the Phantom. I don't know why the movies favour the Opera Ghost over Raoul tho, it's disturbing when someone thinks about it more deeply. I feel like she pitied the phantom, feared him, was manipulated by him, blackmailed by him and everything else that a good boyfriend doesn't usually do. Raoul is the epitome for a good guy for me at least. She just chosed the man she loves truly and which is the better choice for her. I do agree, that if she stayed with Erik she would be miserable to the rest of her life. And as I said, i do like the Phantom. He was a master of illusion, virtuoso, genius, Angel of Music! But he wasn't the right choice for Christine. At all.
Monika wrote: "I love this novel - very much. I also love Christine more than the guys, there, I said it! I do like the Phantom AND Raoul. I believe she loved Raoul, as a woman loves a man (being in that age, and..."Well said :) I totally agree.
Let me preface this by saying that I love me some deformed or merely unattractive villains and anti-heroes. Scarecrow from Batman? I'll take the tall, scrawny dirt poor nerd from the comics over pretty boy Cillain Murphy any day. Deadpool? I'm honestly much MORE interested in hitting that AFTER he gets all the scars. (I have a sort of...fascination...shall we say, for scars)
But, Jenny, this is a literary forum, you say. Spare us your comic nerdery and get to the point.
The point is this: no matter how much I love them, Bad Idea. Very Bad Idea. Based on personality, alone, Erik is the worst choice anyone could ever make. And it would still be so if you put his personality into the pretty, rich Raoul wrapping.
I know from personal experience that the Erik's of the world canNOT be saved unless they want to save themselves. When the conversation begins with how YOU can save HIM, ("Love me and I shall be as gentle as a lamb") you've already failed.
Because a "mature woman" can't save this sort. Erik has all the characteristics of an emotional abuser, and they much prefer that you be somewhat less mature than them as far as wordliness goes so that they can hold it over you. "If you were mature enough to love me..." "If you weren't such a child you'd..."
And I don't believe for a second that Erik never hurt Christine, only himself. Grabbing her wrists had to leave bruises if she were struggling when he was using her hands to hurt himself. An apt metaphor for a future wherein she'd be afraid to breathe wrong lest it be her fault he had to self-harm or hurt someone else.
If she'd been "mature" and stayed, if he'd held her to that promise to be a living wife, we'd get into a situation that's nothing short of rape. Lie back and think of all the lives you'll be saving. Heaven forbid the poor girl get pregnant. Erik's don't like anything that takes attention away from themselves, not even your own self-care when you try to take a step back just for a little while, just for a little peace and space to breathe easy for one day. A baby would be absolutely out of the question, even if she wanted to keep it. He'd either induce a miscarriage or take it from her after birth. It was a wife he wanted, not a family.
And, again, I can't stress this enough: she would never EVER be mature enough to change him. She could spend the rest of her life trying, letting her fear and pity turn into a sort of stockholm syndrome-facsimile of love, but it still wouldn't matter. Either she spends the rest of her life underground getting sickly and weak from lack of sun, fearful of asking for any trips upstairs if Erik isn't offering one, perhaps because the last time she did it he only took her to an opera in the evening and got scary mad about how she couldn't be trusted -or guilt-inducingly sad about how his offer wasn't good enough- when she tried to explain it was a day in the sun she wanted, or she gets the house above ground he promised and becomes terrified of venturing out because Erik killed the baker when Christine smiled one second too long and her husband became convinced they were planning to run away together.
The scenarios were different, but the end result was the same in this personal experience I speak of. You don't ever manage to save them, no matter what you do, no matter how much they insist you can if you just try harder.
Also, it's very disturbing to see so many people insist that Christine owes Erik her love after "all he did." Because he didn't do it altruistically. His entire purpose in helping her was "put niceness coins in slot, get nookie soda," like all so-called nice guys. He wasn't just some random music lover who happened to pick this girl with a nice voice because it had potential. He picked her out and then very deliberately started manipulating the situation so that he could spend time with her whether she liked it or not -because I doubt girls interested in keeping their good reputations are going to be totally cool with a strange man watching them, better just play into her naive superstition. Then, he all but threatened her career with that business about not giving her heart away on earth if she wanted his help.
A more mature, modern Christine, would have said 'eff off, creep," and gotten a new tutor who didn't try to pull that "no boyfriends if you want my help," implicit threat business.
Wow, didn't realize this thread was 5 years old, but I'll put in my $0.02 anyway :)Ideally? I would have loved to see Christine end up with Erik. They had so much more chemistry and passion, and they are just so, so sexy together. I'm all for forbidden love and seeing how the lovers can make it all work out in the end. Plus, it would have made for a much more interesting story, and perhaps even sequels.
But realistically, I agree that she should have picked Raoul. Even more so when you think about the time period that POTO was set in. It definitely made sense. But I found their relationship dull/boring and lacking chemistry.
But then again, I don't really read books or watch movies for realism. I get enough of that in real life.
Jenny wrote: "Let me preface this by saying that I love me some deformed or merely unattractive villains and anti-heroes. Scarecrow from Batman? I'll take the tall, scrawny dirt poor nerd from the comics over pr..."
Very insightful, Jenny. Haven't thought about it, but you made such a good point.
I, think from my own life experience, and I KNOW that I don't want Erik in my life, not after all that you have noticed, and me myself concluded. I am happily married and my husband maybe isn't angel of music or disfigured, but still, is a good person, I love him, learn from him, and he loves me too. We are not only husband and wife, but friends as well, friends for life. That alone, I wish to see in a novel, usually all the classics are preffering hot love, but I do see in Raoul and Christine that partnership that I want so much, that pure love and people who actually would want to grow old together. This is why I root for Raoul of course. Awww, they are so cute together <3
Very insightful, Jenny. Haven't thought about it, but you made such a good point.
I, think from my own life experience, and I KNOW that I don't want Erik in my life, not after all that you have noticed, and me myself concluded. I am happily married and my husband maybe isn't angel of music or disfigured, but still, is a good person, I love him, learn from him, and he loves me too. We are not only husband and wife, but friends as well, friends for life. That alone, I wish to see in a novel, usually all the classics are preffering hot love, but I do see in Raoul and Christine that partnership that I want so much, that pure love and people who actually would want to grow old together. This is why I root for Raoul of course. Awww, they are so cute together <3
Monika wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Let me preface this by saying that I love me some deformed or merely unattractive villains and anti-heroes. Scarecrow from Batman? I'll take the tall, scrawny dirt poor nerd from the ..."Beautifully put :) I agree.
AmyNikita wrote: "Monika wrote: "Jenny wrote: "Let me preface this by saying that I love me some deformed or merely unattractive villains and anti-heroes. Scarecrow from Batman? I'll take the tall, scrawny dirt poor..."
Thanks Amy, I know we share the same thoughts about this couple. :)
Thanks Amy, I know we share the same thoughts about this couple. :)
Honestly I could see how she could go either way. There is Raoul that would provide the "normal" relationship that everyone dreams of. But then there is Erik who would provide the abnormal relationship that would have suited her better. I pity the Phantom in every version because Christine chose life over living.
Yes! I don't know why Christin made that chose. The Phantom is as cool as in dream! This story need a good fanfiction!
It think the movie version with Patrick Wilson makes it really hard to root for Raoul. No way Patrick Wilson's white bread butt deserves Christine over the phantom. Life is so unfair.
Also in response to the girl who compared the love triangle to twilight, please don't do that.
Aaron wrote: "It think the movie version with Patrick Wilson makes it really hard to root for Raoul. No way Patrick Wilson's white bread butt deserves Christine over the phantom. Life is so unfair."True. Wilson did not make a good case for Raoul.
I was in highschool (1995) when I first discover the phantom of the opera. i have no idea what to do - i always wish for a miracle to have obtain even a piece of the story & musical. i visit the local book store to read (i have no money and there's no internet and there's just hope for me to obtain it). when i graduated with honors my mama gifted me with the 2 cassette tape of the Phantom of the Opera and there's no lyrics - only the song titles and the cast...
I memorized the lyrics by heart... and i fell in love with the phantom. I was able to buy the book and i fell in love with Erik a thousand times over... and when the 2004 movie came - i again fell in love and my heart bleeds over when christine chooses raoul... (am i wishing for a miracle)... i cried at the cinema... and then 2014 came, the Phantom of the Opera came to our country to perform - I was crying all over again as I witness it firsthand...
Why did I made that introduction? (please excuse my english... not my natural language)
At first I love Erik as he is a genius, gentle yet rough, wonderful yet scary, a love and hate of a man... He was an enigma and an angel of music... he craves beauty for his deformation but there's something in him that is so beautiful that no beauty of exterior can compare...
and then I was introduced to ramin karimloo who gave the Phantom - Erik - a life of his own... he gave Erik - gestures, mannerism, roughness, madness, divinity...
We are all humans. Erik was born into emptiness, he was mistreated and was a child who knows no love... many keep on saying he was a murderer... how can you love a man with such blood on his hands?
i have a simple answer: those people - even raoul, they didnt kill but they have the intention to kill. they didnt do anything but their mind is as dark as sin. Erik executed it through action... he was but a man trying to protect his identity and his desire...
till this day, i wish for christine to choose erik... but then again - erik deserves someone better. someone who will not abandon him... someone who looks beyond the eyes...
Love Never Dies Musical answers some question in me... many have ridiculed and hated the Love Never Dies Musical - but i love the music... especially: TILL I HEAR YOU SING, BENEATH A MOONLESS SKY and The Beauty Underneath...
christine was young then. she chooses beauty (raoul) and safety... but a night before their wedding she finds erik and they touched and embraced...
the passion and love of erik is so majestic and not just any love with the physical aspect. it is spiritual, emotional, it has more power than any love. it is both eros and agape.
if christine chooses erik when she was young - christine will have more doubts, insecurity, anger, pity to erik. it took ten years for christine to realize that you have to see with your heart rather than with your eyes to tell what real love is all about.
i do believe that even without Love Never Dies - Christine would have a loveless marriage with raoul. for raoul's bravery that time was because he was young, full of raging passion and desire to prove he is the better man.
For me Erik deserves someone better. someone that can be his LIGHT and HIS DARKNESS. Someone who will love the darkness in him, and his music...
Raoul is your typical second lead character that will not have a syndrome... he is your typical knight in shining armour when all the princess deserves some knight in all kinds of armour with so much stain to show that they have been through a hell of life and to know what real world is out there.
Erik deserves someone better. A Christine who is much older and wiser would be perfect... But because I am a writer I would love Erik to find someone who can bring him laughter and passion. Someone who will love his naked soul.
And yes, I agree - please for the love of God and all musical Gods - stop comparing the epic Phantom of the Opera to Twilight.
So in ALL of that analysis you lovely people have put forth, I'm REALLY surprised that no one mentioned Christine's age even once. Depending on your sources, Christine is placed in the ballpark range of 14-16 years old. SHE'S A LITERAL CHILD!And Erik is a man of....some years, shall we say? That in itself already sets up a dangerous power imbalance. He's a much older man holding sway over a very young and very impressionable girl who is eager to please the people around her, chiefly her "teacher". This teacher also happens to be an insanely talented, but deranged lunatic living in the bowels of an opera house.
And then Raoul. Roughly her age, they've known each other since childhood, and he's a man of some decent wealth and status. When you're a young girl in 1800's France, your options are pretty limited and if you want any semblance of a decent life (being a working girl was NOT a decent life) then you married into a good family.
I've seen so much ignorance of historical context in these debates.
So let me summarize - Erik manipulated and coerced a LITERAL child into almost marrying him. Raoul, even though his character has the appeal of a soggy cracker, literally saves her life and gives her the best chance at a good future.
Michaela wrote: "So in ALL of that analysis you lovely people have put forth, I'm REALLY surprised that no one mentioned Christine's age even once. Depending on your sources, Christine is placed in the ballpark ran..."SPOT. ON. You've nailed it.
what I find so interesting about this book is that Leroux gives us pretty much everyones POV except Erik and Christine who are to me, the most interesting characters in the book. Throughout the book, I didn't really know Christine's mindset on Erik. Did she love him? love Raoul? It wasn't until she actually said she loved Raoul but I still had a 'are you sure?' idea towards it. She is much more sympathetic in the stage version than the book. I feel like by the end of the book she really doesn't like Erik and does love Raoul. Whereas in the play, that fact is more up for debate. In the book, she straight up ran with Raoul without thinking and attempted suicide when she was kidnapped by Erik. Did she have feelings for him in the beginning of the novel? Maybe (she did say she didn't hate him to Raoul). But by the end she pities him and then fears him (which is what makes it so much more depressing). But when Erik dies, Christine does go back to give him back the ring, and she does wear it. So I guess Erik always has some place in her heart, but out of pity not love. At least in the book for me
Now what I personally have to say about this -14 years later, god dammit - is that most people here sympathize with the Phantom, but we don't believe what he did was right. I know that I do. I can understand why he did those things, and I feel horrible for him as well, but I don't think he should've done them. I personally hope to find a man with that kind of passion, just minus the homicidal tendencies
Although I love the story, I would never defend her being with Erik. Even if they had things in common, and he taught her to sing, it does not forgive the fact that he was abusive towards her (come on guys he kidnapped her).People say she wasn't in love with Raoul, but in the book, for me it seemed like an innocent love, so yeah, I'd rather if she stayed with him.
The ghastly phantom of opera was not loved in the end, pitied perhaps; the author did not promise us with another Beauty and the Beast, did he? Why some things are prejudiced to be chosen, that one doesn't even bother to ascertain weather they are what they seem?
Currently reading the book, I am a quarter of the way through... Raoul is freaking me out s bit. eh I am not feeling it at all. Even in the movie and musical I wish she had ended up with the phantom. Their chemistry was steamy and angst-y.... While at the moment Raoul and Christine is awkward and cringe-y.
Paisley wrote: "But I think the Phantom, even as written in Leroux is not hopelessly lost. I've always thought the name Christine was chosen because of the "Christ" in the name. I believe that Christine is the ins..."Christine is based Christine Niellson, a famous Swedish opera singer.
deleted user wrote: "When I read the book, and even Susan Kay's novel, Phantom, I felt that Christine was such a ditzy, foolish girl who honestly didn't deserve Erik's attentions. I couldn't stand her, and I really wan..."Yeah, she isn’t the brightest candle. The Leroux Phantom is not all that appealing. He is truly frightening and smells like death. Kay’s Erik is way more dashing and charismatic. And kinder. And the musical (literally) fleshes out Erik and makes him like a sex god/superhero.
Natasha wrote: "i agree with a few of the comments. i think in the film it showed that christine really wanted the ohantom a lot more than raoul, but in the book- as many have already said- she was just in love hi..."In the book, it isn’t true that he would never hurt Christine. If she didn’t choose him, she would have died along with everyone else from the explosions. As it was, he lied because the scorpion still would have killed Raoul and the Daroga. He tied her up so tightly that he left bruises. He hurt her emotionally all the time, as well.
all discussions on this book
|
post a new topic
Twilight (other topics)
The Phantom of the Opera (other topics)
Books mentioned in this topic
Wuthering Heights (other topics)Twilight (other topics)
The Phantom of the Opera (other topics)
And readers who side with Erik are partially responsible for the perpetuation of naive girls getting into abusive relationships because "if he stalks me and kidnaps me and threatens to kill my friends if I don't marry him and keeps a life-sized mannequin of me in a wedding dress...it must mean that he really really loves me!!!"