The Phantom of the Opera
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She should have chosen the phantom
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Andrea
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rated it 2 stars
Apr 02, 2013 06:39PM
No, the phantom was SUCH a douche bag and psychopath. I seriously couldn't stand the book just because of him.
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Of course, as a HUGE Phan, I think the story could (should) be real, and that it could have continued had Erik and Christine ended up together. I think that the only real feelings Christine, (who is a character I just don't really like no matter what), felt for Erik was pity. And while empathy and pity are fine, I think that Christine wasn't totally wrong for leaving him. He WAS dangerous and insane (which only makes us like him more?!), and was pretty much 'past the point of no return'. While I don't believe Raoul and Christine's love was true, I think she may have been right by leaving with him. I mean, just reading about Raoul irritates me because he's so...puppydog-ish and hopeless, I think Christine was like "Oh, he's my ticket out of here!"Now Erik obviously wanted the world for his Angel of Music, and sometimes he was like "Stay away, get away from me-I'm no good for you," his childish side took over and he was begging her to stay.
It's a never ending guessing game! But I do agree with some of the people on here,while Erik talked about how he could create a new life for himself and Christine, where would they have gone? Erik would still most likely be super untrustworthy and sadistic, and Christine, alway second guessing herself as to if she made the right choice. I think maybe in the end, she was afraid. And I have to admit, aside from being TOTALLY taken with the Phantom, I would have been a little freaked.
Oh, not to mention the ridiculous AGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO! That's like dating your grandfather...eww
But still- LONG LIVE PHANTOM!!!
Christine loved Raoul. She sacrificed her freedom in order to save him. I don't understand why staying with Erik is even an option - she didn't love him the way she lived Raoul and that is that.
Full of chemestry is a good way to describe their relationship!
I think she should have ended up with the phantom, I think Raoul thought she was a little nuts-o at the beginning. I don't think Christine and Raoul shared a deep passionate love rather it was more based on a comfortable past. I think the phantom loved Christine deeply and really wanted to share a life with her and he had even gone so far to invent a mask that looked like real human face so they could go out on Sundays. BUT I did love Gerard butler as the phantom he really gave him a face it well the best one I have seen.
Arie wrote: "Am I alone in this belief? I think that Christine chose completely the wrong person, the phantom and her had a special relationship that was dark and full of chemistry. I was heart broken that she ..."No your not, I wanted her to pick the phantom and I know how you feel and mean! :)
Mental disorders are not "dark and mysterious" - Erik was a deeply, deeply disturbed man, and he wasn't fit for a relationship. Can you imagine how miserable Christine would have been trying to manage him? Stop romanticising his disorders and see them for what they really are.
I know everybody wanted Erik and Christine to be together, but really, Raoul was the safer choice. I don't know about any of you guys, but a homicidal nutcase who stalks you and threatens to blow up an entire building full of people (with you and him IN IT, by the way) if you don't marry him doesn't sound like very good boyfriend material.But then again, we all learned from frigging Twilight that having a stalker for a boyfriend is TOTALLY OKAY as long as he's sexy and mysterious.
Well, I'm a total E/C shipper, so I always thought that she should go with him. After reading the book, my decision still stands, but I also think that Raoul was a good choice, too.
I used to be on the Phantom's side in all this, but after watching the movie last night I have a completely different view point on the guy, he is really really creepy. He completely brainwashed Christine from a young age and basically groomed her to become his bride. I don't think she really loves him he hypnotized her and brainwashed her to love him. The hallway when he took her to his lair looked far more beautiful then when we see it later in the film.Yes I pity the child of Erik it lived a horrible life but in no way does that give anyone the right deformed or not to murder people, kidnap women and brainwash them. We only like the Phantom because he is the central character but he is a twisted individual, I still love the character regardless but I am happy Christine went with Raoul, remember when she took his mask off and basically went off the wall? Who knows if he'd do that again to her, keep all that in mind and watch/read the book and it seems like a very possessive relationship. Shes scared of him and says so multiple times but then randomly goes on about how she loves him, its brainwashing and pretty wrong on any moral standpoint.
There was once (and may still be) some great fanfiction_dot_org based on the 2004 movie with Gerard Butler. Also: lots of it based on the Gerard Leroux book as well. The hundreds of stories I read were published between the years 2005 and 2010 and many may be gone now. Fanfiction_dot_net is a great source for reading........
I prefer Erik,their relationship was more real to me!!!Raoul to me was weak.
I've only seen the movie and read a chapter or two of the book, but it seems like the Phantom is a lot creepier in the book.In the movie... yes, he was a messed up killer, but he seemed to care about her a lot more than Raoul did. Should she have chosen him? I have no idea, I don't think we see enough of him to judge. He's an awesome character, but a stable relationship really isn't going to work for him. He'd get bored- imagine what would have happened if he'd never met Christine. He'd never have been happy just living in the Opera House, he needs something to do.
I think mostly it was my dislike of Raoul that made me want her to end up with the Phantom while watching it- he was not at all a good choice for her, and I don't think their marriage would go well at all. Also, he's an idiot- his plan to catch the Phantom is completely ridiculous.
In the end, I think that even the Phantom realizes that a relationship just isn't going to work for him. He loves Christine, but he's able to see that he isn't right for her (especially with the age difference- also, doesn't her father die when she was seven? What about Christine at seven was so attractive that two men fell in love with her? That's a little weird) and let her go.
I want Christine to end up with the Phantom just because I like him as a character and feel sorry for him, but if I think about it more it's really creepy. I do plan to read the book and maybe that will help me with my decision. :)
A few more things:
A few people are using his freaking out about the mask as an example of his mental instability- I don't know about in the book, but in the movie I felt he was justified. He obviously wore the mask for a reason, she could see plenty of his face (I understand that in the book his face was pretty much covered and she would have been far more curious), and he'd been hiding his face from people his whole life. He'd already let her into his hiding place, which was a huge display of love and trust (especially since he lets her leave again, even after she sees his face) and then she suddenly pulls away the only thing that made him feel safe being anywhere near other people. No wonder he gets upset. What's important is that he doesn't actually hurt her and can calm down again.
Did anyone else feel that in the movie his face wasn't nearly disfigured enough? When she first pulls off the mask there's pretty much nothing wrong with it, and even when we get an up-close look, it doesn't look bad enough to make him hide his entire life, especially in an opera house. He could easily have saved his salary, bought a house, and lived an ordinary life with people knowing and understanding about his wish to wear a mask.
Edit: I'm reading the book now, and I can't believe the movie did that. A slightly disfigured (but otherwise rather good looking) guy in a tiny mask does not equal Erik!
Last thing- in the movie, at the end, when his mask is pulled off in front of everyone, he undergoes a complete transformation- his hair changes completely, the disfigured side of his face changes several times, and his voice sounds different for some of his lines. When I first watched it I wasn't even sure it was the same actor, the difference was so great. Does anyone know why that is?
Edit: I'm now halfway through the book (I started it about two hours ago), and while I pity Erik, he really is a lot more insane than the movie version- although he also loves her more (the Phantom in the movie loved her, of course, but somehow we were just sort of told that instead of actually seeing it most of the time). And he does overreact about the mask, although to be fair he does warn her and he hurts himself more than her. I don't like Raoul either... he's too jealous and wimpy. Erik really is in love with her, though, and Christine is pretty mean so far about rejecting him. I'm withholding judgement about the book characters until I finish it.
Edit (again): Just finished the book. That was really sad. Poor Erik.
I don't think Erik was right for her, but neither was Raoul. The movie tries to turn him into a hero, but even they can't make Raoul likable (however many swordfights they put in- seriously, how did they turn Raoul seeing Erik and fainting into an epic duel? Not that that worked too well either... my impression was that the phantom was swirling his cloak to distract from the fact that he was about to drop his sword, while Raoul tripped over everything possible. Not that this matters, as the phantom isn't capable of aiming well enough to hit him, even when he's lying perfectly still. Raoul is of course cut in the spot that might as well be scientifically labeled the part of the arm where heros get cut in epic duels, but that was more of an accident than anything. At one point they manage to get their swords stuck in the same fence. Raoul wins simply by not being quite as terrible at sword-fighting as the phantom is.) Christine needs to just learn to say no.
For all Phantom Lovers!!! If you enjoyed the book, I would highly recommend the book Phantom by Susan Kay. It is the story of the Phantom before the Phantom story.
I hate her! I hate hate hate her!Eric was amazing! He made her a star! He loved her!
Yes he was a bit insane but life made him act that way!!!
If she had stayed with him from the beginning everything would have been different!
But she chose the rich "beautiful" guy...Yeah...right... -_-
Also I want to believe that the story is true, and I believe it, even though it is said that it's fiction.
It's so brutal, yet romantic, that makes it so amazing... But if it is true...Christine, THANK GOD I was not alive then, because if I was there I would have killed you and your precious Raoul...!!! :P
Dimitra wrote: "I hate her! I hate hate hate her!Eric was amazing! He made her a star! He loved her!
Yes he was a bit insane but life made him act that way!!!
If she had stayed with him from the beginning everyth..."
Keep in mind that Erik followed her around like a stalker and threatened to blow up an entire opera house full of people (with him and her IN IT) if she didn't marry him.
Erik is an awesome fictional character, but if someone "loved" me like that in real life, I would have called the police a LONG time ago.
haha you are right, yes, of course he was a stalker, I didn't say that what he did was right but his story is tragic, so, that's why I understand him for some reason... I don't say that I like what he was doing to her or anyone else but keep in mind that he had suffered a lot and his psychology could have been better if someone loved him for real!anyway, fiction or not, this is a great story, don't you agree? :)
Dimitra wrote: "haha you are right, yes, of course he was a stalker, I didn't say that what he did was right but his story is tragic, so, that's why I understand him for some reason... I don't say that I like what..."A bad childhood doesn't fully excuse evil behavior. There are plenty of people who have had horrible childhoods and lead very rough lives, but they are upright citizens who do good deeds and treat their fellow man with respect and kindness.
But yes, this is definitely a good story! Erik is a villain, but he's also one of the best-written, most complex, and most fascinating literary characters of all time.
OK, it's fiction! Not every day life.And yes, there are these kind of people you mentioned, but there are lots of them in clinics and jails too...
Don't forget the bad side of life...
I just can't see him as a villain but as someone who deserved a better life.
Neither. Christine deserved neither of them.
rachel nicole wrote: "Mental disorders are not "dark and mysterious" - Erik was a deeply, deeply disturbed man, and he wasn't fit for a relationship. Can you imagine how miserable Christine would have been trying to ma..."Wow you hit it right on the dot. Erik is evil and killed people but yet we should let him have some sort of love. Nah. I loved that he died.
you guy's don't get it do you he was not a villein or a murderer he acted in self defense and yes he was a bit mad but isn't love madness but nothing can justify the fact that Christine led him on if she wanted Raul so much she should not of picked her angle of music over the man she was in love with and after that what happened in his house and how she treated him as though she loved him and her coming back on her own account fine so she felt guilty but if she didn't intend on staying she should have left immediately and if she was so concerned about braking his heart she should have done the right thing and stayed with them i personally think she was in love with both of them and was selfishly straying to have it all her angle of music and her lover and she should burn in hell for leading him on!
Jacqueline...THANK YOU! :P
So just because someone is in love that gives them complete justification for murdering and kidnapping people? Who knows how he would have treated her in the future, the guy was a nut. Yes he has a very sympathetic past, but so does the Creature from Frankenstine who eventually did horrible things. You can sympathize with the man that was, but its what we do with what we learn from the past that shapes the kind of individual we become. Erik used the fear and hatred that he felt for his whole life and used it as a weapon against innocent people. He's not as nice nor as lovely as people make him out to be, he's a monster.
where did it say it's fiction certainly not in the book and in the Authors note he say's it's real i know don't believe everything the author writes but he didn't come up with the idea on his own it's obvious the tale is second hand and the way he tell's it it sound's like he interviewed the Pusan man or something no one can come up with something like that you would of had to have witnessed it to have such detailed information! and sure it's nice to know not everyone think's Erik's a monster and that Christine is some poor damsel and distress!
Brandon wrote: "So just because someone is in love that gives them complete justification for murdering and kidnapping people? Who knows how he would have treated her in the future, the guy was a nut. Yes he has a..." he did not murder it was self defense and she was asking to be kidnapped she knew what would happen and do you really think he would have treated her badly you know how in love he was he would do nothing to hurt her in fact in the end he sacrificed everything for her in return for nothing but pain and death if he loved her that much do you really think he would do anything to harm her ?
Jacqueline wrote: "Brandon wrote: "So just because someone is in love that gives them complete justification for murdering and kidnapping people? Who knows how he would have treated her in the future, the guy was a n..."I used to think the same way, until I grew up and learned about psychologically abusive relationships.
"She was asking to be kidnapped..."
That still gives him no excuse to kidnap her. Just because a woman is wearing super-short shorts doesn't mean she's asking to be raped.
"...do you really think he would do anything to harm her?"
No, he wouldn't have harmed her. He loved her, but he did not love her as a human being. He loved her in the same way that a dragon loves gold, or that a child pageant mom loves her show-child. He fashioned her and groomed her and lived out his dream-life through her, and then when she started to make her own decisions and break free, he locked her away and hoarded her in the dark.
Yes, he loved her, and no, he would not have harmed her, but she would have been MISERABLE. She would have spent the rest of her days in a cage. Doted on, well-cared for, but living in a cage all the same. What kind of life is that for a human being?
she chose such a life and she gave up raul and her freadom when she agreed not to be with raul in the begining with the voice she gave up everything and it would not have been such a cage in the end of the book the phantom wanted a regular life in a flat with christine all he wanted was to mary her he gave up music and his underground house and she did not seem to mind such a thing till she pulled off his mask it was abought his face not his soul!
Jacqueline wrote: "she chose such a life and she gave up raul and her freadom when she agreed not to be with raul in the begining with the voice she gave up everything and it would not have been such a cage in the en..."Christine she did not exactly choose to stay in the beginning (pre-unmasking of Erik). She just felt that she was in the hands of a (an albeit gentlemanly) madman, and had no chance of escape, so she just accepted her circumstances and tried to make the best of it. I also feel that she was a little bit in denial, and still wanted to believe that Erik really was the Angel of Music.
But I feel that you're missing the point. Erik told Christine in so many ways that if she didn't marry him, he'd kill himself, her, and everybody in the entire opera house via an explosion of gunpowder. Let me repeat that. Kill HIMSELF, kill HER, and ABSOLUTELY EVERYBODY in the opera house if she didn't marry him. And that's not even counting the casualties of passersby on the street getting hit by flying debris.
Does that really sound like good boyfriend material to you?
He was crazy! He had psychological issues! He was denied by everyone and hated by everyone even before the murders! That's why he acted like that!!!All he needed was love and someone to show him how beautiful life is and how to live it like a normal person!
Dimitra wrote: "He was crazy! He had psychological issues! He was denied by everyone and hated by everyone even before the murders! That's why he acted like that!!!All he needed was love and someone to show him h..."
i agree but Claire your missing the point it's not the threat it's what actually ac-cured he told christine to leave because he wanted her to be happy and she left how could she do that she murdered him she destroyed everything that was him and how could she not want to be with him after that selfless act she isn't the naive gullible optimistic girl everyone makes her out to be she's a selfish para-sight she should suck it up and stay with him he deserves at-least that much and i doubt she would have been miserable like before she would have made the best of it and persuade her career!
I'm not sure. It is indeed a novel based on The Beaty and The Beast myth but, accordingly to fairy tales, once a person is converted into a monster it can be brought back through True Love. And the Phantom's True Love was Music, not Christine.
it's not like that and i for one am not referring to the musical and you have to look at Erik from a different angle he did do all those crimes yes but he was crazy and he did them to survive as for deceiving Christine he did it because he knew she would be like everyone else if he didn't and he did not kidnap her she came to him!
"He could have changed! Christine just needed to love him!"Abusive relationships are founded on that kind of logic (or rather, lack thereof). "So what if he threatened to kill my friends if I didn't spend more time with him! So what if he threatened to blow up a building if I didn't marry him! It just means that he's angry and lonely and sad and just really really loves me! Really!"
Tokunbo wrote: "I've just finished watching the movie, and I have to say I don't think the Phantom even loved her at all. I am absolutely appalled at the number of people who think he would have made a good partne..."I enjoyed your insight into Raoul's character. A lot of phans seem to miss that.
By the way, which movie were you watching? The Lon Chaney one or the Gerard Butler one?
Tokunbo wrote: "Thanks Claire! I watched the Gerard Butler one. How about you? I found the book online, I'm going to read it as soon as I can. It's so disturbing how many people don't realize that this is an abusi..."I've seen both movies. I enjoyed the Lon Chaney one more because it is the one and only film adaptation which is closest to the source material. Gerard Butler is WAY too sexy to make a convincing deformed psychopath.
I'm actually surprised (and pleased) to see you not take Erik's side after watching that particular film. Most people just seem to be so dazzled by Erik's artsy-ness and dashing good looks (in the musical, anyway. Erik in the book is actually REALLY creepily deformed on his whole face, not just a sunburn on half of his face) that they quickly forget how EVIL he is.
And I tried Wuthering Heights, but I sadly just couldn't get into it. I felt like I was reading the Victiorian literary equivalent of a soap opera/reality tv show. I may try it again someday, though.
Tokunbo wrote: "I've just finished watching the movie, and I have to say I don't think the Phantom even loved her at all. I am absolutely appalled at the number of people who think he would have made a good partne..."did you read the book? well if not don't pass judgment! and in the movie the only person he killed was in the carnival and no one can say that was wrong and when you say that they where not in love maybe in the movie it seem's that he means nothing to her and the only one who is in love in the movie is the phantom well i disagree i think they where in love in the movie and the book but more in the book if you have not read the book you know nothing of there complicated relationship so don't judge them till you have read the book!
Jacqueline wrote: "Tokunbo wrote: "I've just finished watching the movie, and I have to say I don't think the Phantom even loved her at all. I am absolutely appalled at the number of people who think he would have ma..."Did YOU read the book? I think you're forgetting Joseph Buquet, Raoul's brother Philippe, and then the untold number of people he personally assassinated and/or tortured while he was in the service of the sultan. If ya haven't read it, don't pass judgement!
Tokunbo wrote: "Claire wrote: "Did YOU read the book? I think you're forgetting Joseph Buquet, Raoul's brother Philippe, and then the untold number of people he personally assassinated and/or tortured while he was..."
There just aren't enough facedesk gifs on the internet for this kind of foolishness.
Claire wrote: "Jacqueline wrote: "Brandon wrote: "So just because someone is in love that gives them complete justification for murdering and kidnapping people? Who knows how he would have treated her in the futu..."Actually I think he would have hurt her eventually. If Christine ever grew a spine and wanted a life beyond Erik, I don't think he would have taken that well. What if she wanted something he didn't? With his penchant for killing people, I could totally see him hurting her.
Tokunbo wrote: "I've just finished watching the movie, and I have to say I don't think the Phantom even loved her at all. I am absolutely appalled at the number of people who think he would have made a good partne..."Oh excellent analysis! I never thought Raoul was all that bad. I certainly don't think the character deserves the kind of vitriolic hatred I've seen. Did anyone read Phantom in Manhattan? God God, Raoul certainly didn't deserve THAT!
I don't think that the Phantom and Christine are right for each other at all... The idea I got from both the film and the book is that the Phantom is in love with an idealized Christine and that Christine is smitten with the mystery, darkness and talent of the Phantom. For relationships to work, you need real people, not their idealized versions. As was pointed out before, the Phantom is abusive, manipulative. Regardless of his past, you can't just go around killing people, kidnapping, etc.
And I think that in the end he did find redemption, by letting Christine go. If she would have chosen to stay with him then, it would all, to me, have come across as another act of manipulation. It ended with the beast regaining his humanity, even if it came at the cost of his life.
Joana wrote: "I don't think that the Phantom and Christine are right for each other at all... The idea I got from both the film and the book is that the Phantom is in love with an idealized Christine and that Ch..."I agree! To me, the act of letting Christine go meant that there was a chance for Erik to save his own soul. I always thought that after he left the opera house, he probably left Paris and settled somewhere. And eventually found a true love.
People need to realize that Christine didn't leave Erik just because of his face. She even said, "This haunted face holds no horror for me now. It's in your soul that the true distortion lies." After all, he manipulated the entire Opera staff and killed two of them, just so he could get her.
Think about it!Raoul hadn't seen Christine in years and when he became the Patron of the Opera, he ignored her because she was just a Corus girl. But later when she takes Carlotta's place, he's smitten. He only paid attention to her because she was in the spotlight, AKA worthy of his attention. Raoul was privilaged and most likely looked down on people like Christine growing up.
Now for Erik.
He was there for Christine in her darkest times. When her father died, he gave her hope that someone still cared for her. He taught her how to sing and in the process, fell in love with her over time. Not in three seconds like Raoul, OVER TIME!!!! Like real romance should. I think he truely cared for her and wanted what was best for her. Raoul only saw a pretty face.
Christine made a terrible choice and I think Webber realised that with "love never dies"
I think all of you people are missing the point of the story. I would explain it but (a) that would be hard to do with my phone acting up, and (b) I am not sure I know HOW to explain.
I love the Phantom, and I really don't think many people were actually overjoyed by the fact that Raoul got the girl. Possibly even more annoying in the book than in the movie *weeping* at every turn. But I love the ending, because something about it leaving Erick all alone is so painfully beautiful. It's so great in the musical/movie when Christine comes back and gives him the ring (not the same in the book; one thing I liked more about the musical. ) If Christine and Erik had ended up together, it would not be so memorable, and you also have to remember that the audience of the early 1900's probably would have seen that as perverse. FINALLY this isn't Twilight! There's no Team Edward or Team Jacob!
Christine wrote: "I love the Phantom, and I really don't think many people were actually overjoyed by the fact that Raoul got the girl. Possibly even more annoying in the book than in the movie *weeping* at every t..."the ending was beautiful but you see the phantom of the opera isnt just a book it's more it's like a biagraphy and it's painful to see how it ended also the only thing better bought the movie is the music
Shauna wrote: "Think about it!Raoul hadn't seen Christine in years and when he became the Patron of the Opera, he ignored her because she was just a Corus girl. But later when she takes Carlotta's place, he's sm..."
of course what you say is true bought Christine and Erik but love never dies was the biggest mistake ever made!
Tokunbo wrote: "Claire wrote: "Did YOU read the book? I think you're forgetting Joseph Buquet, Raoul's brother Philippe, and then the untold number of people he personally assassinated and/or tortured while he was..."men like roul are responsible for the abuse and suicide of people like Erik
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