Outlander Series discussion
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Songs of Love and Death
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A Leaf In the Wind
Fiona, I have a long ways to go.I have had lessons for 20 years from my husband to have a southern accent!! He is finally giving up. I always tell him I do have a southern accent, I am from the southernmost tip of Brazil on the bottom of South America. There were even penguins in the beach that would get lost in the current from the South Pole. You can't get any southerner than that.
Now... concerning my ability to get the "scotts", Fiona my dear, that will be a monumental task!! :)
Doric! Thats it! I did a google on Scotland awhile back and now I remember that coming up! Doric! Whoodathunkit? Fiona....do you know how lucky you are to have a man to whisper in your ear with that sexy scottish accent? Daaaayyyum. Can I borrow him? Just for a little while? Pretty please????? :)
Sharonh wrote: "Doric! Thats it! I did a google on Scotland awhile back and now I remember that coming up! Doric! Whoodathunkit? Fiona....do you know how lucky you are to have a man to whisper in your ear wit..."
Aye Doric can be verry hard to understand sometime as we can speak really fast with it asweel hence my steve, man in profile pic, telling ma to slow doon or shut up fit iver is appropriate at the time. lol Take him it will give me a bit of peace n quiet! lol
Yowzrs!!!!! I'll be right there!!!! :)
Anybody ready to discuss the short story dealing with the fate of Roger's father? As a kind of a Christmas treat my ordered book was in yesterday's mail and I immediately had to read this bit. Quite liked it, though I think DG is much better in long, detailed desciptions. Her author's not left me wondering, though...
I have a question if anyone is ready and it is probably the same one that anyone else who has read the story has.
spoiler -
I thought that the genealogy chart showed that Buck died in the year that Roger and Buck went back to find Jem. If that is so then what just happened? If not is this really going to blow Roger's beliefs?
spoiler -
I thought that the genealogy chart showed that Buck died in the year that Roger and Buck went back to find Jem. If that is so then what just happened? If not is this really going to blow Roger's beliefs?
Beth wrote: "I have a question if anyone is ready and it is probably the same one that anyone else who has read the story has.SPOILER
Beth, this did not trouble me. I do know what you want to tell, but please regard it the other way round, i.e. from the past not from the present: Buck died the year he went through the split stone and ended up in his future, for Bree and Roger in the present. From Echo we know that Roger and Buck planned to go back to the past, but no more details. From ALITW we learn that they ended up in Northumberland, met there Roger's father - which for me is stretching coincidences too far by all means. What troubled me most, however, was DG's note at the very end: "... bear in mind that Great Britain changed from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752, this resulting in a 'loss' of twelve days." This sentence, put there to explain how Jeremiah MacKenzie could have gone from 20th century to the 18th about All Hallow's Eve and the other way round at the same date, also informs us the Jeremiah ended up somewhere BEFORE 1752! And meeting Roger and Buck there really bothers me. Especially Roger, I do not care so much about Buck. Anything could have happened to him to correspond to the year of death shown in the genealogy chart.
Spoiler:
Lotte said:
Beth, this did not trouble me. I do know what you want to tell, but please regard it the other way round, i.e. from the past not from the present: Buck died the year he went through the split stone and ended up in his future, for Bree and Roger in the present. From Echo we know that Roger and Buck planned to go back to the past, but no more details. From ALITW we learn that they ended up in Northumberland, met there Roger's father - which for me is stretching coincidences too far by all means. What troubled me most, however, was DG's note at the very end: "... bear in mind that Great Britain changed from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752, this resulting in a 'loss' of twelve days." This sentence, put there to explain how Jeremiah MacKenzie could have gone from 20th century to the 18th about All Hallow's Eve and the other way round at the same date, also informs us the Jeremiah ended up somewhere BEFORE 1752! And meeting Roger and Buck there really bothers me. Especially Roger, I do not care so much about Buck. Anything could have happened to him to correspond to the year of death shown in the genealogy chart.
Me:
Actually, time is linear in DG's universe so I am not sure how that would work. I love reading time travel but really get mixed up in the linear and circular universes. To me, if time is linear then he should have died. Of course they didn't have a date so it could be anytime that year but it doesn't make sense to me. Of course, I don't really believe in pre-destination like Roger does but I sure thought he wouldn't make it once he passed through the stones.
Lotte said:
Beth, this did not trouble me. I do know what you want to tell, but please regard it the other way round, i.e. from the past not from the present: Buck died the year he went through the split stone and ended up in his future, for Bree and Roger in the present. From Echo we know that Roger and Buck planned to go back to the past, but no more details. From ALITW we learn that they ended up in Northumberland, met there Roger's father - which for me is stretching coincidences too far by all means. What troubled me most, however, was DG's note at the very end: "... bear in mind that Great Britain changed from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar in 1752, this resulting in a 'loss' of twelve days." This sentence, put there to explain how Jeremiah MacKenzie could have gone from 20th century to the 18th about All Hallow's Eve and the other way round at the same date, also informs us the Jeremiah ended up somewhere BEFORE 1752! And meeting Roger and Buck there really bothers me. Especially Roger, I do not care so much about Buck. Anything could have happened to him to correspond to the year of death shown in the genealogy chart.
Me:
Actually, time is linear in DG's universe so I am not sure how that would work. I love reading time travel but really get mixed up in the linear and circular universes. To me, if time is linear then he should have died. Of course they didn't have a date so it could be anytime that year but it doesn't make sense to me. Of course, I don't really believe in pre-destination like Roger does but I sure thought he wouldn't make it once he passed through the stones.
@ Beth:SPOILER
I think I have to be more precise about Buck's year of death: I cannot remember the exact year and have not got the time just now for checking, but it must be in the late 1770s and much more important, it is the same year shown on this genealogy chart Rev. Wakefield has put up for Roger. This means Buck was reported missing - or what was the equivalent in the 18th cent. - most probably by his wife Morag. When he returned to the past with Roger looking for Jem, he ended up much earlier than he had left, before 1752 (we know this by the autor's note at the end of ALITW) and therefore could not have met his wife (most probably not yet born then) to correct this error. This means that he is reported to have died in the year when he was lost to his family, what really happened to him we do not yet know.
I am most concerned about Roger having gone back much too far. Who would he find in Scotland/England before 1752? Maybe a Jamie who does not know anything about him. I do hope he too would go through the stones back to 198X, he's got Bree there to pull him. I can understand the "delay" to meet and help his father, though, when there was an opportunity to do so.
S P O I L E RI could not stop thinking, why Roger and Buck made it so far back into the past, how did they manage getting through the passage at the stones, who did they think of to be pulled by this WHO. Roger surly would not have thought of his father again! I am one of those who really like Roger and one who thinks he had a terrible fate with all the adventures occuring to him in the past - to make the same mistake twice, though, would mark him a dafty indeed! So sorry for him, nonethless.
I'm probably completely wrong with this theory, but here goes... Maybe, just maybe, since Roger was thinking of Jem, but Jem never went to the past, Buck's thoughts were what guided their travel. I have a feeling, that Buck was thinking of one thing, G-O-L-D. I don't remember when Gellis came back, but I think it was in the late 1730's. Maybe they are close to were she was getting the gold that was smuggled out later???
*SPOILERS*I'm all pins and needle to know what Buck was after in the past (assuming it wasn't Morag as suggested in EITB); I think it'll drive what happens to he and Roger. Maybe it is gold, or maybe he wants to return to Scotland?? He seems less political than Geillis, but who knows?
It was an extreme coincidence that Roger met his father, but I'm glad he (and we) did. It was kind of nice to see one of the family just be an average-type guy, not a super brainiac or amazingly talented what-have-you. Poor Roger! He may have made things hard for himself in the 1700's by giving his father the gemstone. And how will he figure out that Jem's not there? Surely Bree and Co. will have to journey back to tell him? I hope DG isn't too mean to them in Book 8.
(is it 2012 yet?)
I was also comparing Claire's time-travel experience to Jeremiah's and Buck's in my mind. Do you think a woman would have automatically been more accepted by the society she travelled to because they found her less threatening? Or was Claire just lucky? (or was it all plot-driven?)
ChristinaRae wrote: "I was also comparing Claire's time-travel experience to Jeremiah's and Buck's in my mind. Do you think a woman would have automatically been more accepted by the society she travelled to because t..."SPOILERS
Yes, I agree with you that they found women less threatening, and I also think that women also can much better adept to surroundings either strage or even hostile to them.
I do not think that Buck's thoughts guided Roger and him into the past. And by the way, Buck was not after the gold, this was Bree's colleague Cameron(?). Something else just occurred to me: Roger most certainly will have thought JEMMIE when he went through the stones. So far, we do not know where his son ended up, is he still in the tunnel where he has been locked in or did he time-travel. How about he stayed in the 20th century and Roger (also in the 20th century) thinking JEMMIE, would this not bring him to the other Jemmie, i.e. his father?
Oh yes, Cameron wants the gold too. But I really think Buck does as well. He has proved himself to be cold-blooded. He is Geillis and Dougal's son afterall (those are some messed up genes to inherit!) so I think he will use Roger as much as it helps him achieve his own means...The only thing we do know is that he doesn't find Morag again, hence the "death-date".As far as I know Jem did not go back at all, and I got the impression from the story that Roger and Buck were there before Jerry arrived, so I think Jerry "found" Roger by thinking of him, not the other way around....Which leads me to question (and I'm probably looking at this too deeply), but if Jerry ended up back in pre-1752 why didn't Roger travel back there the first time he thought of Jerry when he tried to time-travel (the time that destroyed his mother's necklace) Time travel it too complicated!!!
It was explained that Roger was thinking of his father from his own memory. So it automatically took him back to that time period.I don't think Buck is like that. I think he can be ruthless, but then so can Jamie. And Dougal wasn't all bad. He loved his brother and his men.
There is a reason why Jamie wasn't so bent on revenge once he found out that Roger kissed Morag. I think that Buck is alot like Jamie.
It really stinks that we have to wait for a minimum of another year before we find out. It's so looong!!!
I need to go back and read that! I don't remember Jamie finding out about Roger kissing Morag. Good grief he kissed her on the forehead I think I do remember that!
Yeah. He wasn't quite as livid at Buck when he found out. When I read it I felt like he sorta understood why Buck would want Roger dead. Not that it was okay, just that it made him understand Buck a little more.In addition, I remember how much Buck loved Morag and his son. I just don't think he was all bad. I think that he will end up helping Roger IF Roger actually goes back through time.
Okay first I gotta say, yes Dougal loved Collum and his men, but he still was a twisted SOB. He "loved" his nephew Jamie too, just like I think Buck "loves" Roger. MacKenzie's are sly as foxes....Yes, I think Jamie maybe understood why Buck was upset with Roger, but my God, seriously, a kiss on forehead! When Jamie met Roger he thought he had raped and impregnated his only daughter and he still didn't kill him. There is quite a distinction between Jamie and Buck in my opinion.
No he sold him as a slave to the Native American's, haha. Still pretty ruthless.I agree that Buck is still a MacKenzie, just that that I don't think he's quite the bad guy that others are. I see him more on the line, like Dougal. Dougal was someone that Jamie couldn't completely trust, but he was in no means BJR or Bonnett. Jamie loved him, and he respected him.
Yeah, but didn't love him enough to let him kill Claire! Sigh...
Oh heck no! That would have been a series killer!
It just gives me chills the way Jamie throws himself over Claire to protect her too! Like when she was stoned and on the raft when Bonnet tried to steal her rings and she swallowed the one Jamie gave her. I thought for sure he was stabbed too.
I just love Jamie. Every single thing about him. I love that he's like that too. It also scares me. I thought he was stabbed too.
I know, I was so relieved when he wasn't and I don't blame Claire at all...I'd have swallowed my ring too..especially since my husband gave me a beautiful new wedding ring for CHristmas!
Fiona - what does peddid mean. The rest we could understand but that one has got me beat.....
I just finished this and I LOVED it! Absolutely loved it! I loved the little tidbits and additional insights we got. (view spoiler)
I want to read it again as I listened to it on audio. Somethings are better when read. ;)
The ministers cat is a Young cat. (Germaine)
Hahaha...Wendy I think you meant to post this in The Minister's Cat thread. :)
HAHAHA! I knew this was accidentally posted somewhere random!
Wendy F wrote: "HAHAHA! I knew this was accidentally posted somewhere random!"Yeah, I got quite the giggle out of it. Glad I could give ya the head's up...
Jen, Sinatra fan wrote: "I just finished this and I LOVED it! Absolutely loved it! I loved the little tidbits and additional insights we got. [spoilers removed]
I want to read it again as I listened to it on audio. Some..."
Jen I just finished reading it and I agree with your spoilers. I really enjoyed it. I listened to it also.
Regina wrote: "Jen I just finished reading it and I agree with your spoilers. I really enjoyed it. I listened to it also..."I'm so glad you liked it, too! It was so good. Quite a tease, too! lol
I just finished reading it and Diane sure likes to keep us guessing. I had to read after get recent posts on facebook,.it was driving me mad. I am glad Roger got to meet his Dad. :-)
Me, too, Martha. Thank goodness for Kindle! Another great chapter...cool that Frank and Jeremiah met. And that Roger met his da, and that Dolly and Jerry connected at the end. Long live DG and her amazing ability!
Agree with both Martha and Carol. Don't you worry about Roger and not only WHERE but W H E N he ended up? This makes me even more desperately waiting for book 8.
I shouldna read this novella too soon for a re-read of the series ye ken!
Wan ~DragonsWan~ wrote: "guid = good I think."Aye, guid is good in Lowland's Scots.
Sharonh wrote: "Uh, that wasn't Gaelic I don't think...it was Scots accent and a heavy heavy heavy one at that. I didn't understand a word she said. LOL. and English is my first language."Not the Scots accent, but an actual language that is a cousin to English - Lowlands/Lallans Scots.
Just to clear something up, the Buck who "died" was the foundling child that Claire found when out in the woods with Geillis; remember - Jamie was going to help her save it, but it was too late. It's one of the reasons they thought her a witch.Dougal gave the newborn that Geillis had (their child) to the couple who lost their son. Diana G explained (in The Outlandish Companion?) that it wasn't unusual for parents to give the same name to the "replacement" child. Which is how Buck MacKenzie came to be named such. Dougal placed him within his clan with a young husband and wife.
Buck doesn't know his parentage though, does he?
Lots of wonderful surprises and heart-wrenching moments in this story. It's almost like a little gift! *sigh*
Can anyone give me page numbers in An Echo in the Bone that relate to who rescues Jerry in A leaf on the Wind?
Lori McD wrote: "Just to clear something up, the Buck who "died" was the foundling child that Claire found when out in the woods with Geillis; remember - Jamie was going to help her save it, but it was too late. It..."Lori,I'm not too sure that the child who Buck replaced was the foundling that Claire found in the woods. Where did you read or hear that? All I remember is that the family that Dougal gave Geilis' baby to had lost their child. We never find out who the foundling baby was.
Jo wrote: "Can anyone give me page numbers in An Echo in the Bone that relate to who rescues Jerry in A leaf on the Wind?"Jo I don't have page numbers but Jerry's rescuers are
(view spoiler)
Sheila wrote: "Lori McD wrote: "Just to clear something up, the Buck who "died" was the foundling child that Claire found when out in the woods with Geillis; remember - Jamie was going to help her save it, but it..."Sheila, have you read Dragonfly in Amber yet? If not, I'll put this in a spoiler tag, even tough, technically, it's not - in the book threads, it's OK to reveal what's already happened... but because not everyone has read the books in order, I'll be kind: (view spoiler)
I just finished my second read of ALOTWOAL and picked up many details I had missed before because I was so engrossed in the story.I am pretty sure the Capt. Randall who gave Jerry his recon assignment is Frank. The timing fits and I think Claire had mentioned in Outlander that Frank was in some sort of secret agent job.
I think I figured out who the men were who helped Jerry after his crash - one of them, anyway. But what year did he land in? And who were the people who threw him down the hill?
The people who helped him when he came through the stones were Roger (this same man's son) and Roger's ancestor (forgot his name - Gellis' son) who were there (not entirely sure of WHEN but approximately 200 years past) due to what happened at the end of Echo in the Bone. Don't want to give too much away, not sure of how much others on this thread have read...
Yes! That's him. The Nucklewhatever that Jem and Mandy saw and ended up being William Buckley MacKenzie.
Latinlandish:- Sorry to say i don't speak Gaelic, never have :(
Sharonh:- Aye Lassie ye were spot on about the accent, My husband sometimes has to get me to slow down and explain & he's Scottish .lol
Wan:-Well done spotting Guid=good.
Wendy:- Top of the class:)