The Seasonal Reading Challenge discussion
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The Future of SRC
I'm not sure if someone has asked this or whether its been answered, but when will the Fall Challenge tasks go up? Thanks PJ and Sandy for taking over :)
Mod
We're working on them. Can't give you an exact date just yet.
Sandy wrote: "Rachel at HomeBetweenPages wrote: "I'm not sure if someone has asked this or whether its been answered, but when will the Fall Challenge tasks go up? Thanks PJ and Sandy for taking over :)"We'r..."
Thanks, Sandy!
El, not including the complete Task Description is a preference, not a requirement. Making it a requirement would change the spirit of all this too much from what Cynthia created.See next post for revised Posting Guidelines.
Requirements for Completed Tasks PostsSee post 1 of this thread for latest version
Thanks, PJ - I'll still try to make it a brief description so it's easier on you guys but I still feel like I'm not missing out when my OCD goes into overdrive. :)
This is probably a "duh" question but will the total to date include the current posting total pj or the total brought forward to that point?
Sheila wrote: "This is probably a "duh" question but will the total to date include the current posting total pj or the total brought forward to that point?"Includes current tasks and previously posted tasks.
Thanks for the clarification, pjreads, and for the question Sheila. I had the same question. Other than the above, I think the new guidelines look good. Great job all!
pjreads wrote: "Requirements for Completed Tasks Posts 1. Include your Readerboard name at the TOP of your post.Not required if your Goodreads user name is the same as your Readerboard name.
2. Include a link..."
Wait, shouldn't you /need/ to have the task number to get points? I could see task title being optional, but the number seems like it should be there. Otherwise, how would you know what task someone's claiming points for?
Ms Anderson wrote: "pjreads wrote: "Requirements for Completed Tasks Posts 1. Include your Readerboard name at the TOP of your post.Not required if your Goodreads user name is the same as your Readerboard name.
2. I..."
Task #
Guess I should spell out Number?
pjreads, I think Ms. Andereson just meant that the task # is not listed in the "Required" section of your post, only in the "Preferences" section.
pjreads wrote: "Ms Anderson wrote: "pjreads wrote: "Requirements for Completed Tasks Posts 1. Include your Readerboard name at the TOP of your post.Not required if your Goodreads user name is the same as your Re..."
I think the reference is that under your Msg 369 above, Task # is not one of the three listed requirements.
Lyn M wrote: "pjreads, I think Ms. Andereson just meant that the task # is not listed in the "Required" section of your post, only in the "Preferences" section."Right. That's what I meant. Sorry, I guess my mind is flaking out today.
Ms Anderson wrote: "Lyn M wrote: "pjreads, I think Ms. Andereson just meant that the task # is not listed in the "Required" section of your post, only in the "Preferences" section."Right. That's what I meant. Sorry,..."
I think it's my mind that's flaking out.
Thanks everyone!
See post 1 of this thread for latest version of Posting Requirements.
I've been taking a break the second half of this challenge, and so have missed out on a lot of this discussion. I've been trying to catch up, but it's a lot! Nevertheless, here's my opinion:I, too, think it's a simple thing for Cynthia to have sent a short message to SOMEONE to let them know what's going on...unless she's seriously hurt. In which case, someone's hijacked her GR account. These statements in mind, I'm totally supportive of a new group with a new name and revised rules. As a technical editor, I'd like to say to PJReads and Sandy that your rules are excellent and very easy to understand. I really enjoy this challenge and do not want to see it go.
I'm very glad you're attempting to make it easier on yourselves by requiring posts to be a certain way. And I think having two moderators (possibly even three or four, with two being primaries) is definitely the way to go.
Lastly, I second the thoughts of some posters that this should primarily be a _reading_ challenge. It's getting more and more difficult to finish the challenge for many group members, and adding on requirements to watch this movie or attend this event doesn't make it any easier. We're already expanding our reading horizons, so to speak, which is the reason most of us enjoy this challenge. Please don't require me to do something else in time I could spend reading.
I'd be happy to help in any way that I can, PJReads and Sandy, and I've seen that some other members are too. Let me know!
--Deirdre
Latest versions of THE RULES (rev.2), Posting Requirements and Guidelines for Task Creators are available in posts 1 - 3.
Observation: If we are going to make the first theme choice for the Winter 2010 Challenge, then perhaps the Challenge I, II, III, IV, should be changed to Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall, rather than Challenge I being Fall.
Can I make a suggestion? For each task under the TASK HELP section, can we have the 1st post be reserved for the task creator (either the moderators or the individual creator) so they can simply list "books approved" and "books not approved" I've used the threads to help find books -- but it was confusing sometimes trying to figure out what had or had not actually been approved. (Especially when several times the post creator decided to change the meaning of their task with no reason other than "she didn't post everything I said" or "she messed up my intention") If the first post right under the initial post with the description of the task would be a list of books, that would be VERY helpful. Granted, it would need to be updated as new books are approved/disapproved...but for the most part, it seems like the majority of that is done in the first 2-3 weeks.(does this make sense? if not, let me know, I can rephrase)
The current revisions look good pjreads. I do have a one question, but I think it is just my inability to interpret, not the rules themselves.The first question I have is for the I like big books reward. Is the maximum number of tickets you can get in the drawing 3, or do you get one ticket for each book over 500 pages you read, etc.? Say I read books with the following page numbers:
526 - 1 ticket
547 - 1 ticket
502 - 1 ticket
756 - 2 tickets
803 - 2 tickets
1126 - 3 tickets
For a total of 10 tickets in the drawing?
Sorry for the confusion, and thanks for helping me figure it out.
Christine - Don't you think that would take part of the challenge out of the challenge by designating the approved books from the get go? To me the fun of the challenge is figuring out for myself what books from my TBR list will fit each task. And as far as making a list of unapproved books how would a task creator know that until someone asks about it. What do others think of this?
Sheila wrote: "Christine - Don't you think that would take part of the challenge out of the challenge by designating the approved books from the get go? To me the fun of the challenge is figuring out for myself ..."Sheila, I don't think Christine means that the task creator should make a list of approved books him/herself.
Instead, I think what she means is that in the Task Help section for each task, as individuals post their book selections asking, "Would this be okay?" and the Task Creator says, "Sure," then the Task Creator could keep a running list of books he/she has approved (or disapproved). That way people can look to that list to see if the book they are thinking about reading has already been approved. Or, if you're feeling lazy, you can just pick a book off that ongoing list instead of finding one on your own.
This doesn't mean that the list of "Approved" books would be the only books that you could read for the task, of course.
Hope that makes sense (and hope I didn't misinterpret, Christine!)
I'm with you, Sheila. No, don't post a list of approved books unless it is something like this season's challenge of the B&N list of books from which to choose. If task creators were to post a "pick from this list of 15-20 books", then many would not be interested in participating.
I think that Christine was talking when you are having trouble finding a book and need help. I have to admit, there are many times when I just can't come up with a book to fit a task, and getting ideas from the help threads is really great. But, as Christine said, trying to read EVERY post in the thread to see which books were ok'd and which weren't can be daunting. I, too, think that a list that can be updated would help. Those that wanted to use it could, and those that didn't need it could just ignore it.
OK Asho and Lyn now I get it. That makes sense and in that case it WOULD be great if the first help post for each task could be reserved for the task creator to indeed keep a list of books either approved or not in the task help section itself.Good suggestion Christine.
Lyn M wrote: "The current revisions look good pjreads. I do have a one question, but I think it is just my inability to interpret, not the rules themselves.The first question I have is for the I like big book..."
Yes, your list of possibilities is correct. In the change from I Like Big Books to Bigger Is Better, there is now no limit on the number of Big Book tickets.
Christine wrote: "Can I make a suggestion? For each task under the TASK HELP section, can we have the 1st post be reserved for the task creator (either the moderators or the individual creator) so they can simply li..."I suspect that only the person that created a post can edit it. So, if the moderators create a Task-help thread for 20.1 I can only think of two options to do what you are asking:
1) The moderators create the thread, list the task in the first post AND create the second post for clarifications, approved/disapproved books. This would be A LOT of extra work for the moderators -- they would have to read all the posts in the thread and continuously update the second post.
2) All of us participants would have to wait for the task creator for 20.1 to make the second post BEFORE we posted any questions/comments (which would be very difficult).
Asho & Lyn understood correctly. Rather than reading through 145 individual posts of "is this OK? is that ok?" - just have a list of books that have ALREADY BEEN APPROVED by the task creator (maybe I should've put that originally)right up at the top of the thread. That way, if you are there to look for suggestions, you have something right up front to see. People can still find their own book, read whatever they want...but it will clear up questions for those who need examples to understand what is really being requested.But Shelia, part of your post is correct too -- you don't know what is unapproved until someone asks. However, wouldn't it be helpful to see what is not OK for a task up front rather than find out after you've read it and get a big "NOPE" later on?
Why do you need to ask for a book to be "approved"? Are the tasks written in such an obscure way that you can't tell whether or not a book fits? Or are you trying to make a book fit that doesn't really fit, i.e. pushing a square peg into a round hole.
Go look at the Task Help threads...the majority of them are "is this book approved for this task?" Or, my personal example -- I was going to read book X, but then after reading the threads to see what others were reading and I found out that my book X wasn't approved by the task creator, so it would've been a no-go for points.
I think we are all in agreement on this after all. :)
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Why do you need to ask for a book to be "approved"? Are the tasks written in such an obscure way that you can't tell whether or not a book fits? Or are you trying to make a book fit that doesn't re..."No books do not have to be approved, but they may be disqualified after they've been read and posted.
We are trying to make the Task Descriptions as clear as possible but it seems players still interpret the requirements differently than intended.
We allow as much flexibility as the Task Creator defines in the Task Description.
The best way to help with this is to read all the new Tasks as soon as they are posted and ask questions if something is unclear.
Liz wrote: "I suspect that only the person that created a post can edit it.. ..."I think that's true.
There's a third possibility: The task creator adds an updated post of Approved/Not Approved books every few days which includes the entire list (a cut and paste job with new additions added). Participants would need to go to the end of the thread and scroll back to the last Update to see which books are on the list.
Petra wrote: "The task creator adds an updated post of Approved/Not Approved books every few days which includes the entire list (a cut and paste job with new additions added)."How would this onerous activity make one actually want to be a task creator?
Perhaps you don't like the idea and could come up with something more constructive than critism as an alternative and a way to make things work?
Maybe before the tasks are posted the moderators could set up the Fall challenge task help area and the task creators could "reserve" the first spot to keep that list handy. Is that a possibility? This is a really great idea actually. As a task creator in the summer challenge and in the upcoming fall challenge I would be glad to do this.
I don't think that is the problem Elizabeth. I think that sometimes people don't understand what could be considered a certain something. For instance, I have never read a forensic/scientific thriller so if I looked for a book I wouldn't be entirely sure if something would fit...so I could ask the task creator/moderators. But if the 1st or 2nd post was stated with the APPROVED/NOT APPROVED books and mine was under the NOT APPROVED I would immediately know that I shouldn't look into that book any further for that task but could possibly fit it elsewhere. I think it is just nicer for the people who are not familiar with a topic/genre or since covers come up different on every computer. I have an old monitor at work (not a flat screen, but old big and chunky) where things definitely turn up different than my nice new laptop at home. Where I can even zoom in on pages as I please and make it as big as I want.
Perhaps "approved" is the wrong word here. I read every post in every task help thread of the tasks I'm interested in completing. Most of the posts have nothing to do with being "approved" or "disapproved", rather they are suggestions of books that will fit. Why not actually read a few of these suggestions before going out on your own? That would give one a better idea if one is completely unfamiliar with the genre. The other thing, of course, is to read the completed tasks thread so that when people post for that task you can see what they've read. And, Petra, I just don't see this as such a difficult problem that I think it needs "fixing". If you want to "fix" it so that being a tax creator is a task in itself rather than a reward, keep at it.
pjreads, thanks for the clarification on the big books reward. I was hoping that's what it meant.
Mod
This only works if links are entered, if you type in the title GR cannot list it.
Well, since the creator has to go back into the Task Help thread everytime someone posts a new question to answer it....I'm afraid I just don't see how it's SO much more work. Perhaps the answer is to add a few more moderators that have the sole purpose of monitoring the questions and updating that one post for those who would find it helpful.
Ok seeing as I am not a task creator and probably will never be one I don't really have much else to say. I think this is something that is entirely up to the moderators on what they want to do about it seeing as they are the ones who would be having to keep up with the vast majority of them and I can see that it would be difficult with posting book covers and finding the right editions for some of them as far as colors, etc. If they make the suggestion to the task creators as an OPTION to do on their help thread that is up to them. They could have the task creators do it however to their liking with a clarification on how it will be updated in the 1st post where the task is located. Again I am saying that this could be an OPTION for the moderators and task creators. Please don't get snippy with me.
Please don't get snippy with anyone.
Christine wrote: "Well, since the creator has to go back into the Task Help thread everytime someone posts a new question to answer it....I'm afraid I just don't see how it's SO much more work. Perhaps the answer i..."I would not mind helping the moderators with this for some of the tasks at all.
Elizabeth (Alaska) wrote: "Why do you need to ask for a book to be "approved"? Are the tasks written in such an obscure way that you can't tell whether or not a book fits? Or are you trying to make a book fit that doesn't re..."Let's all step back in the Wayback Machine and consider this moderator decision from Spring 2009 in denying a book selection:
"The word Three does yes rhyme with the word Sea but the numerical digit 3 isn't a word and therefore can't rhyme from my perspective."
Now, say "3" and "sea" out loud. They rhyme, don't they? I still don't understand Cynthia's logic, but she had apparently made that decision earlier in the challenge. The task itself, however, hadn't been amended, and the challenge was still all in one place because it was still part of TNBBC. How was someone who joined after there were 5,000 comments supposed to know that? Some of you were part of the challenge back then and probably remember all that. Regardless, examples like this (and there were more) where the decision seemed arbitrary/lacking in logic made me ask more times than I think were necessary to make sure a book was okay.
This is one example of why it's a really, really, really good idea to do the following things:
1) Write tasks with clarity that take the reader into consideration.
2) Make clarifications and amendments to a task visible in the same place as the task itself.
3) Make questions/answers about tasks easy to locate.
These are all things that have gotten better since then. The approved book list at the beginning of a thread is a good idea, but it's labor-intensive. Having separate threads for each task that one can scroll through has made the issue of finding which books have been accepted and which books haven't an easier task.
I am of the mind that you generally shouldn't criticize or complain unless you have a better idea or solution, which is what eventually led me to ask Cynthia for separate discussion space (we have our own group now) and permission to repurpose SRC tasks to create Reading with Style. Granted, that's a bit of an extreme, but I think that anyone who doesn't agree with something in the challenge or has a better idea should speak up in a way that can better the challenge itself. It looks like the environment is becoming more conducive to that than what it was when I first joined.
The moderators have agreed to try this.We will be setting up the TASK HELP FALL 2010 (Moderators and Task Creators Only) folder so the moderators and Task Creators can reserve posts 1 and 2.
We will delete the parenthetical (Moderators and Task Creators Only) when the TASK HELP threads are opened for general posting.
Please do not make any posts in the TASK HELP FALL 2010 (Moderators and Task Creators Only) folder unless you are a Task Creator who has been asked to reserve a post 2 as a placeholder.
How much individual Task Creators want to do with post 2 is up to them. Task Creators may ask another player to help with this activity and must let the moderators know who to contact to reserve post 2 in the Task Help thread for their task.
Any other posts in the TASK HELP FALL 2010 (Moderators and Task Creators Only) folder before it is opened to general posting WILL BE DELETED.
Thanks PJ, Sandy, Dlmrose, and Kristi! Not only for taking on this task of moderating the group, but for listening to everyones suggestions and being open for changes.
pjreads wrote: "The moderators have agreed to try this...."Sounds perfect! Thanks PJ.
The Seasonal Reading Challenge
Books mentioned in this topic
Daughter of the Forest (other topics)The Girl Who Played with Fire (other topics)
Authors mentioned in this topic
Neil Gaiman (other topics)Stieg Larsson (other topics)
Juliet Marillier (other topics)
Question, for the posts that require a review, is that a review on the book's site or in complete..."
Either way works for me (as long as something is said in the Completed Tasks post). The other moderators may prefer to have a required review in the Completed Tasks post.