Beyond Reality discussion
This topic is about
The Curse of the Mistwraith
SERIES—List & Discussions
>
Wars of Light & Shadow--*SPOILER*Curse of the Mistwraith, complete story *SPOILER!*
I'm pretty sure Lysaer's Papa hated mages because of his errant wife who was unfaithful and deserted him. I don't think he hated mages before that. Because she was from a clanborn line with farsight, which is where the brothers got theirs. I think it's the s'Ahelas line. Yes. I just looked in the glossary. One of the short stories Janny wrote tells of the beginnings...Child of Prophecy which can be found in Masters of Fantasy which you can get in ebook form from Baen Books for $4. Not bad.
Dawn wrote: "SPOILEROne thing that I don't quite understand, and that I've been meaning to ask in hopes that all of you lovely insightful people can enlighten me...
When the Koriani do their character scan..."
MAYBE SPOILERS Good question Dawn
I won't spoil for later in the series, but look closely at all the facets of Arithon's personality -- brilliant intelligence, sardonic wit, extreme clarity of understanding, immense self-control, etc. in addition to the compassion geas and sometimes knowing in advance what will happen--a recipe for maximum stress. Also his total unwillingness to be manipulated would not please Morriel one bit.
Charles wrote: "Dawn wrote: "SPOILEROne thing that I don't quite understand, and that I've been meaning to ask in hopes that all of you lovely insightful people can enlighten me...
When the Koriani do their c..."
I think Morriel missed that last bit, Charles.
Dawn wrote: "I stand corrected. I really need to start bringing the book with me to work, maybe then I wouldn't get into these predicaments :) "I didn't mean to put you on the spot, Dawn. I just happened to read that paragraph almost immediately before reviewing this discussion thread.
And, for further clarification about this topic, I read, just this morning while commuting to work, the following:
Arithon to Lysaer (as the enter the ruins of Mearth on the Red Desert splinter world): 'How ell can you focus light? I ask because we may be needing a weapon.'
Though Lysaer preferred to leave the question unanswered, the perils ahead forced honesty. 'I had none of your training. Except for the practice of healing, the king banned the elder lore from court after his marriage failed.'
p. 94 The Curse of the Mistwraith 'Curse of Mearth' subchapter
Wowza! This group is PHENOMINAL! And, I think, the opportunity to do an indepth read is truly cool because it enables you to see the carefully faceted details, and get more out of the story.I have read all the above posts, and good spotting! You've gotten into many of the concrete pointers about why Lysaer was not trained.
There are more reasons, on top of those already encountered. I will read through the posts again, respond to specific points, then go into this further.
Dawn wrote: "Janny wrote: "With regard to Lysaer's lack of training - do you think his father had the knowledge to impart, in this area? What would have been required to give Lysaer access to that knowledge?......"The first opportunity Lysaer would have had, and lost, was, of course, his mother. Presumably when the dowry was awarded, the gifts were intended to stay within the marriage.
Shel wrote: "Janny wrote: "With regard to Lysaer's lack of training - do you think his father had the knowledge to impart, in this area? What would have been required to give Lysaer access to that knowledge?"..."
Here's the backhistory feed: all of the 'magical' knowledge on Dascen Elur descends through the lineage of Dari s'Ahelas. Rauven kept the monopoly.
Chris wrote: "With it being a refusal to let Lysaer get the training, is it perhaps a prejudice held by his father against mages in general, because of his obsessive hatred of the s'Falenn?"Here's the unwritten corollary: the marriage that awarded the dower gifts was broken. The second gift, of Shadow, went to the byblow of Amroth's enemy....Talera SAYS why she did this....Jon? You're the good spotter...you may be able to tag her motivation.
Given that motivation, you'd quickly see why Rauven would refuse to train a s'Ilessid to power.
More, if you spot carefully through the scene in Ch II, Sentence, about 4 pages in (the editions won't correlate page numbers) - you'll see Arithon's decision to stand as his father's heir, for Karthan.
That will flesh out another clue.
Charles wrote: "Chris wrote: "With it being a refusal to let Lysaer get the training, is it perhaps a prejudice held by his father against mages in general, because of his obsessive hatred of the s'Falenn?"I agr..."
Wasn't available, except at Rauven; and what would Rauven have thought on the matter?
Dawn wrote: "SPOILEROne thing that I don't quite understand, and that I've been meaning to ask in hopes that all of you lovely insightful people can enlighten me...
When the Koriani do their character scan..."
Morriel states EXACTLY why she drew her conclusion with regard to the two brother's legacies. We will get there, in depth, as the read progresses...I hope this point comes up again, then, because it is signal. You can find it - look up the subchapter Attraction (in set XV) - because pages won't correlate, read the sixth paragraph from the set chapter's end, before the one liners.
Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "I'm pretty sure Lysaer's Papa hated mages because of his errant wife who was unfaithful and deserted him. I don't think he hated mages before that. Because she was from a clanborn line with farsi..."That story will precisely show a lot of things - and also demonstrate that not everything that occurs was set in motion by Fellowship oversight...there are other powers in the world, and the main story will gradually reveal them.
Janny wrote: "Here's the unwritten corollary: the marriage that awarded the dower gifts was broken. The second gift, of Shadow, went to the byblow of Amroth's enemy....Talera SAYS why she did this..."I brought my book to work today, think I found the passage you're talking about:
The king laughed. 'The s'Ffalenn will curse your lovely, gifted children from the bottom of the sea.'
The queen struggled. Blonde hair tumbled from diamond pins and snagged on the man's rough fingers. From the doorway, Lysaer saw tears in his mother's eyes, but her voice stayed ringingly steady, 'Force me, and by the stones of Rauven tower, I'll even the stakes. The s'Ffalenn pirates will share my bride gift to s'Ilessid, and grief and sorrow will come of it.'
Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "With regard to Lysaer's lack of training - do you think his father had the knowledge to impart, in this area? What would have been required to give Lysaer access to that k..."What little you'd gain by looking at the website information would likely be offset by the SPOILER material mixed in, so I don't recommend that. I posted a pretty detailed take on this precise issue in the other topic. If anyone feels enterprising, they could copy the applicable responses here, because all the material on this background point is self-contained in chapters I - III.
Janny wrote: "The second gift, of Shadow, went to the byblow of Amroth's enemy....Talera SAYS why she did this....Jon? You're the good spotter...you may be able to tag her motivation."I believe Dawn got the right reference. See my notes for pp. 22-25 here: http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...
With respect to Arithon's decision to rescind mage and musical training to become his heir, see my notes on Arithon's memories here (pp. 36-38): http://www.goodreads.com/user_status/...
All page references are for this edition of The Curse of the Mistwraith.
I've finished the book but am still trying to sort through the various groups of players-- their origins, their loyalties, etc. Can someone tell me, for example: are all the members of the Sisterhood Atherian? It seemed that Elaira was, but I can't tell, for example, about Prime. And what about the Fellowship sorcerers? I know they have an allegiance to the Paravians, but are they Atherian by origin?
Janny wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "With regard to Lysaer's lack of training - do you think his father had the knowledge to impart, in this area? What would have been required to give..."Sorry, but since you posted the link in these topics I didn't think it was a spoiler! It just gives background information on the feud between Amroth and whatever the name of Arithon's kingdom was.
Susan wrote: "I've finished the book but am still trying to sort through the various groups of players-- their origins, their loyalties, etc. Can someone tell me, for example: are all the members of the Sisterh..."Susan, the story will explain all this as you go. If you want to know more in immediate depth, the satellite short story The Sundering Star in the anthology Under Cover of Darkness will open up vistas of insight immediately.
At the time that Mistwraith occurs, all living members of the Koriathain were born on Athera.
Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Janny wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Jon wrote: "Janny wrote: "With regard to Lysaer's lack of training - do you think his father had the knowledge to impart, in this area? What would have been re..."Sandra: correct. Sorry for the confusion. The link I posted in THIS TOPIC has no spoilers for THIS VOLUME.
If you checked the Splinter Worlds topic on the Paravia website (or wiki entry), that bundle of posts has spoilers.
Oh! I didn't realizE there was a difference. My bad.
Janny wrote: "Susan wrote: "I've finished the book but am still trying to sort through the various groups of players-- their origins, their loyalties, etc. Can someone tell me, for example: are all the members ..."Janny, I've just finished "The Sundering Star" and loved it and the light it cast on the Koriathain (and I don't usually like short stories).
First off, I was glad for more strong female figures in the story (something I missed in Curse but I'm counting on happening further into the Wars of Light and Shadow series based on others' commments). Now I wonder, though, whether the Koriathain are a compassionate order or just a meddling one (or are they both, depending on whether you're within or outside the order)?
Will the tribesmen from the story appear at all in the series?
Susan wrote: "Janny wrote: "Susan wrote: "I've finished the book but am still trying to sort through the various groups of players-- their origins, their loyalties, etc. Can someone tell me, for example: are al..."Susan, I am a total stickler about short stories - they have (almost) to be mini novels, in that, though they center on one event, there MUST be layers and payoffs on several angles.
The fact you dug up this story at this stage will 1) tip you off to certain MAJOR underlying tensions and illuminate a significant moment in history, and 2) change how you view certain events upcoming in the story.
I repeat - these short pieces (there are 3 of them) are NOT necessary to the reading of this series. But they add a big facet, if you choose to pursue them.
YES to your question: will the Koriathain's motivations be unveiled. And a big YES to the women characters, and the impact of the Sanpashir tribes - these are not minor threads. Just, there was NO room in the earlier stages of the books to play these arenas with the impact they carry.
One step at a time.
I have promised: this story does NOT sprawl, it deepens, and you are seeing the glimmer of this - the tip of the iceberg, at this stage.
Let me add: with the satellite shorts: each one was written BECAUSE readers had questions, made suppositions that were too simplistic - or wrote off stuff that was SO huge - grin - I wrote out those significant snapshots of history exactly to throw them the curve.
Which brought up ANOTHER fun facet: What If?
Would you discussion people here like to contribute? (sly grin) Say - hit me with all your questions, make all your suppositions - and - at the end of this, sift through the subjects that most haunted - and as a result, have me write that short bit of history (create, in actuality, an new satellite short piece?)
Note that I already have underway two more of them: Verrain's story, and also the origin of another significant lineage that impacts the story in a major way, and ties several threads (that will emerge) together in a way that shifts vantage much like Sundering Star did.
Do watch the female characters - they are not ciphers or second rate players, but major movers in their own right.
The story at its opening HAD to focus as it did to avoid too much information/too many characters introduced too fast.
Help you write new stories! (Perk up) That's sounds like fun. Plus it means more insight into Athera. I'd love to help. Right now I'm just doing my first read through - a "fast-ish" one (can't really speed through these even the first time through).
Amelia wrote: "Help you write new stories! (Perk up) That's sounds like fun. Plus it means more insight into Athera. I'd love to help. Right now I'm just doing my first read through - a "fastish" one (can't ..."Boy, is that the truth. I missed so much first time through but am thoroughly enjoying my second read.
Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Help you write new stories! (Perk up) That's sounds like fun. Plus it means more insight into Athera. I'd love to help. Right now I'm just doing my first read through - a "fasti..."The discussions have helped hone me to certain ideas and different thoughts, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of the little things.
Amelia wrote: "...The discussions have helped hone me to certain ideas and different thoughts, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of the little things."I don't know why, the (my) brain is such a strange thing, but I now have the chorus to "Little Things" by Bush running through my head. "it's the little things that kill - tearing at my brains again - the little things that kill..."
But, really, the little things can make or break a theory about what is going on (or going to happen) in a book. They can make a scene more fulfilling. A few tiny words can make a flat character full and real. It is incredible! I miss a lot in books of this complexity because I tend to read very fast. It is rare (if I like the book) for me to be able to slowwww dowwwwn. My correction to this flaw is to either re-read the whole book a few weeks after finishing or to re-read chapters the next time I pick up the book.
And I think the idea of a new short story coming out due to this discussion group is exciting.
Mawgojzeta wrote: I don't know why, the (my) brain is such a stra..."That's funny. I didn't know I could be so inspiring.
I'm just enjoying all of the twists and turns in the story. Once I finish my first read I'll have to reread them all, especially since the series will be in the unfinished state for several more years. I think I'll be able to come back to these and really enjoy and notice all the nuances I missed the first time through.
That's one of the great things about reading. Even though you've read a book before, it can almost be a different story when you read it a second, third, etc. time and get so much more out of it.
Janny wrote: "Susan wrote: "Janny wrote: "Susan wrote: "I've finished the book but am still trying to sort through the various groups of players-- their origins, their loyalties, etc. Can someone tell me, for e..."When in the series would you recommend reading the short stories? I'm less than 100 pages from the end of Ships and am wondering if I should track them down now, or wait until a more logical point in the story progression.
Amelia wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Help you write new stories! (Perk up) That's sounds like fun. Plus it means more insight into Athera. I'd love to help. Right now I'm just doing my first..."Amelia, don't wreck your head about this. There is absolutely NO WAY you'd catch everything...because the veils keep lifting, and the story was MEANT TO DO THIS.
It is designed to change angle constantly...so you can have the fast thrill of 'what happens' and also enjoy the savored thrill of seeing whole other areas of the story acquire significance you were not aware of on the first pass.
When Arc IV is out, it will shift the ground AGAIN...and so will a revisit at a different time of life.
I got SO tired of 'old favorites' losing their meaning as I aged; well this is not a child's story, but it DOES last - any change in life perspective only grows this story deeper. It was made to be revisited - and readers report seeing things even after many re-reads.
But a revisit is not necessary to 'get' the story - it moves to whatever level you wish PROVIDED you don't skim. This story does not work for people who are poor listeners. For ones who fight its current, or stand on being cynical, it won't reveal a thing. As well it should not.
As for stories: what do you readers want to know about Athera - history, world, whatever - duke it out! I will be listening.
Mawgojzeta wrote: "Amelia wrote: "...The discussions have helped hone me to certain ideas and different thoughts, but I'm sure I'm missing a lot of the little things."I don't know why, the (my) brain is such a stra..."
There's a limit to How Much you can miss in this story because the style truly forbids speed reading. I know in your case you've come to this series after a few reads through my standalones - that will have prepared you somewhat...truly, take it the way you want to, there is no 'right way' about it. I am a fast reader myself - some books merit a lot of reexamination, and I've done my share of that with certain authors who put enough in their works to capture my attentiveness. It has to be earned, at that level, for me, and no question.
Story - duke it out, folks. There is SO MUCH material here, never revealed, in scrap files, and in stray notes if I don't 'order it up' nobody's likely to make head or tail of it.
We will run some trivia contests, too, and also, a Paravian Translation challenge - but later, when it has fuller meaning.
Amelia wrote: "Mawgojzeta wrote: I don't know why, the (my) brain is such a stra..."That's funny. I didn't know I could be so inspiring.
I'm just enjoying all of the twists and turns in the story. Once I..."
Arc III concludes after Stormed Fortress, and that is a really comfy pause point. Initiate's Trial is written, I am finalizing the text, this moment - not long to wait. After that there are only 2 more volumes, one for the last sequence of unveilings, and one for complete denouement. I take about 2 years to finish these (they are huge) and my output has been pretty steady. (Count that To Ride Hell's Chasm was written IN BETWEEN Peril's Gate and Traitor's Knot. I needed the emotional break from the intensity of Peril's Gate).
Dawn wrote: "Janny wrote: "Susan wrote: "Janny wrote: "Susan wrote: "I've finished the book but am still trying to sort through the various groups of players-- their origins, their loyalties, etc. Can someone ..."Honestly: I'd read Child of Prophecy at once - it could even be considered 'prequel' to Miswraith as it lays out a lot of the ground for Athera at the time the princes arrive through West Gate.
I'd read Sundering Star after Mistwraith - due to some teensy bits IN Mistwraith that would fall in place.
Reins of Destiny - really any time - it gently corrects course for some 'presumptions' you might hold for some time...and of course opens peeks into Arc IV's material.
IN FACT - all of these stories open peeks into subsequent material - but NOT spoilers - only flesh out what you will encounter along the way.
Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Help you write new stories! (Perk up) That's sounds like fun. Plus it means more insight into Athera. I'd love to help. Right now I'm just..."Don't worry about me wrecking my head. I really enjoy discovering things I've missed the first time. Plus it gives me an excuse to read it again.
Here's some ideas of what I'd love to see:
The world where the mistwraith was created, how it was done and what it is.
The arrival of the Fellowship, their new training about the balance and their fight of the Dragon's bane.
Dakar's story - his childhood, training, apprenticeship with Asandir
Davien's story - what he was like before his betrayal, his reasons why he did what he did
Ciladris - his journey to look for the Paravians and what happened to him. (This will probably be in the main story somewhere. I'm thinking this is one of those moments that has been mentioned, but has been overlooked).
That's what I've thought of now. I'll add more when I think of some.
Amelia wrote: "Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Help you write new stories! (Perk up) That's sounds like fun. Plus it means more insight into Athera. I'd love to help. Righ..."I second all of these, great ideas!
Amelia wrote: "Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "Amelia wrote: "Help you write new stories! (Perk up) That's sounds like fun. Plus it means more insight into Athera. I'd love to help. Righ..."Me, too, with the addition of what Athera looked like when all was in balance and no one was fighting! I can't quite picture how it was and how the business of no landowning worked in the towns.
The main story will take you to quite a bit of this, all in due time.
Susan (re: #72), having read Sundering Star, what is your take on Asandir's slip when he calls Sethvir "Cal"? Might give you a clue to the underlying conflict between the Koriathain, and the F7, even though the Koriathain may not be aware of any such connection?
General note, heading off a possible (later) problem - if people are talking about points from a satellite short story, DO PLEASE mark them "possible spoilers for "title" and add a few lines of white space.That way, people who have not read that story and wish the experience undisturbed can scroll past, not reading, and ones who wish to view the post (story read or not read) can do so.
"Look for clues here" is a good way to show a new reader to watch something without clueing them as to why, yet. ;)
Janny wrote: "General note, heading off a possible (later) problem - if people are talking about points from a satellite short story, DO PLEASE mark them "possible spoilers for "title" and add a few lines of whi..."Maybe you should start threads for the short story discussions like in the other group? Clearly marked spoilers, of course.
SOMEWHERE, somebody posted that they thought the Koriani arrived on Athera 500 years ago during the wars of revolt against the High Kings. Darned if I can find it. Enyhoo, I am pretty sure that the Koriani arrived at the same time the Fellowship did.It does say, early in Curse, in a conversation between Lirenda and Elaira, that the great Waystone was mislaid during the wars. Just one of those little niggling things that has been bothering me.
Uh, no, I think the K.O. arrived after the Fellowship. I believe Day One of Third Age. Let me go search Janny's web site.
Jon wrote: "Uh, no, I think the K.O. arrived after the Fellowship. I believe Day One of Third Age. Let me go search Janny's web site."Actually, they arrived with the rest of mankind - first age, year one. I misspoke.
I think she just miss-wrote -- I got it from a message earlier today. Sorcerers came many thousands of years before. So now I'm confused, but I assume the Wikipedia article is right. However, it's a SPOILER for the rest of the series. Maybe you should put that in your post.
I thought in the chapter set I, II, and III thread it said Fellowship arrived in the beginning of the 2nd age, Koriani at the beginning of the 3rd... I need to double check that though.
Yep, Janny laid it all out here (message 71):http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...
Copied and pasted below...
"The Mistwraith arrived on Athera in Third Age Year 4993
The Royal Exiles arrived on Dascen Elur - (500 years ago is not correct) - no clear cut single date, though by Third Age Year 5129, the last of them crossed the Worldsend Gate to Dascen Elur.
Except for Lysaer and Arithon, the main Atheran characters in this story did not drink from Davien's Five Centuries' Fountain, which was constructed in Third Age Year 3140.
Dakar was born in Third Age Year 5056.
The Fellowship of Seven are far older; they arrived on Athera in Second Age Year One. The Second Age extended for 13,051 years.
The Koriathain arrived on Athera in Third Age Year One. Individual ages for them vary; where they are relevant, some are stated in the story."
Dawn wrote: "Yep, Janny laid it all out here (message 71):http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...
Copied and pasted below...
"The Mistwraith arrived on..."
Thank you, Dawn! Unlike you and Jon, I can never find what I'm looking for :\
I don't think my brain was working yesterday. I did know that the Fellowship had been on Athera a long time before the Koriani. Duh. And today my eyes aren't working. If it isn't one thing, it's another when you get old, lol.
Wow you guys - grin - you are superb - !Anyone who wants to contribute to the Paravia wiki, that is being constructed by readers. ;)
And to Sandra's credit, the note I sent just referenced 'princes' - it was, therefore, easy for her to make an assumption - that the princes I meant were those in the story, and not the original line founders.
As far as a new story, I'd love to see something in the splinter world that Lysaer and Arithon came from. Maybe something with their fathers and what led their mother to run off with Arithon's father.Or if not that specific, maybe just something from that world a generation or two before the half-brothers were born.
Beyond Reality
Books mentioned in this topic
The Ships of Merior (other topics)Ships of Merior (other topics)
The Ships of Merior (other topics)
Deliver Us from Evil (other topics)
Deliver Us from Evil (other topics)
More...
That would make sense after she betrayed him, but what about before? Would Lysaer just have been too young to train then (I don't know how old he was) or was there some other reason?