7/10 The Ships of Merior- Welcome to the Discussion - how did the book happen?

[Janny]

Welcome to the discussion for The Ships of Merior, and thank you to those who voted for this title in the poll.

For those of you new to the Wars of Light and Shadows series, this book is volume two - while it is not necessary to have started with The Curse of the Mistwraith, and while some readers have made entry to the series at this point (yes, everything you need to know is included in this volume), your experience will be enriched by beginning at the start.

There was a prior discussion of Mistwraith in this group - and if anyone wishes to revive a thread there, I will be available.

PLEASE - if you are an old reader, or if you have read on in the series, pay attention to spoilers. If you post spoilers to another discussion (which is fine!) do remember to UNCHECK the update feed box below your reply window - or all your friends will see your post, unwarned.

Ships of Merior itself - how did this book happen? One would think that being the second book in a carefully planned series, there would be nothing unique about it, other than continuing the story.

The adventure occurred otherwise.

On the story side: not so simple - this manuscript existed for decades, being tinkered, before Mistwraith ever sold. The choice was mine - I wanted everything solid in my own mind before I ever put the series to market. In fact, in the USA, volume one was sold as a completed manuscript to be totally certain the editor I'd be working with understood what sort of punch they would be buying.

Ships, as I look back on the writing, was a Research Quandary. First, I needed an indepth understanding of black powder - not a problem, there are many books and tons of reenactors who put on displays with this stuff on a regular basis. The problem deepened, though, when it came to figuring HOW MUCH of a very low power explosive (black powder doesn't have much punch for the bang) to accomplish a very specific bit of mayhem necessary to the plot. No reenactor uses the stuff on that scale.

Finding historical references became a singular challenge. One could find plenty on loads for guns, pistols and cannon....and plenty of mention of the use of the stuff - but - precisely HOW MANY KEGS did HOW MUCH FORCE? Books, literally, were sent back and forth from University library collections - thousands of pages of sifting - and ah HAH! Here is ONE reference to how many kegs of powder were ACTUALLY USED to blow up a bridge in France in an actual bit of action.

From that reference point (open air, which does not favor compression for a low impact explosive) it was possible to extrapolate and come up with the precise action needed to complete the scene in question.

The author's work is NEVER done. Next came the herbals. Not a problem - there are TONS of botany books on use of herbs, how they grow, what to harvest for what use, and even, whether the efficacy is strengthened by harvest under night or day, and in what season you gather roots, etc.

The problem? All of said books were written for temperate climate, mostly Europe or N. America.

Author Crisis number one - the climate for said herb gathering scenes was to be a semi-tropical spit of land...and NOTHING follows pattern, given there are no temperate seasons.

Out came the field guides - because lots of plants grow in said semi-tropical climate that are the same as their northern cousins - the question became Which Ones, and - worse - When did they flower and seed?

I probably bought every single plant guide for Florida - then hiked into the woods and rode my bike for MILES, bagging plants and dragging the poor wilted bits home to lay out on the kitchen table.

Then hit the books - cross referencing what actually GREW in a semi tropical climate to the stack of herbals. The tower of books required would have caused a concussion. However.

I have not (yet) received the dread sort of note from a reader that begins 'I am an expert on this stuff, and let me tell you, you Screwed Up.'

Nothing wrecks the suspension of belief quicker than a hole in the work That Big.

For the horses, lucky me, I know my stuff hands on, having ridden and kept horses and trained them, foals to abused nutcases for decades (Yes, I knew a fellow Just Like Faery Toes, his name was Gunga Din - so ugly you cried tears because he was just HIMSELF). For sailing vessels - lucky me, I knew my stuff inside out, there too, and what was not in hand could be found in the treasure of a book called Seamanship in the Age of Sail: An Account of the Shiphandling of the Sailing Man-Of-War 1600-1860, Based on Contemporary Sources. And for archery and the otherstuff, yes, I've done that too.

What I had not banked on were Industry Pitfalls. Those, I'll tackle tomorrow.

Your turn to have at it - go ahead and feel free to ask questions, post your first impressions of the story and the characters - just take care to hold off the spoilers for this thread.

I'll open a spoiler thread, shortly.

[Chris]

It's fascinating as always to read about the behind the scenes research and careful detailing of your books, Janny. Thanks again for sharing that.

This is one of the big reasons these books are so satisfying. They're not written off the cuff, but carefully set up so that the details give life to the story.

[Janny]

Chris wrote: "It's fascinating as always to read about the behind the scenes research and careful detailing of your books, Janny. Thanks again for sharing that.

This is one of the big reasons these books are so..."

Oh, Chris - I nearly forgot!
There was the shipyard research, too!

I derived all that from
1) museum models - here in the USA, and at Greenwich, UK.
2) some splendid books.
3) A visit to Maine - South Bristol - which USED TO have a working shipyard for wooden vessels - sadly, at the time I was there, up for sale as a possible yacht club. Probably Gone. That yard did large-scale building and repair of sailing craft of all sizes.

[Amelia]

I was reading comments in another group I've joined and I saw someone's comment that went something like this: 'Since I'm writing a fantasy book, I had lots of time to do other things because I didn't have to do any research'. I almost cracked up laughing but had to restrain myself since I was at work. You've certainly proven them wrong. I don't think I'd want to read someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and didn't take time to research it.

All of your research and experiences really make your novels shine. They've been great so far. I appreciate your research and all the effot you've put into them.

[Janny]

Amelia wrote: "I was reading comments in another group I've joined and I saw someone's comment that went something like this: 'Since I'm writing a fantasy book, I had lots of time to do other things because I di..."

Amelia - there could be a fantasy done without research, if the author had bothered to live, first. Maybe.

But where anachronistic elements are used, how else to make it work? Anyone who's lived on a farm knows that chickens don't lay in the winter...anyone who's been becalmed on a sailboat knows - you don't go nuts from the silence, no way! You get barraged by so much NOISE, you want to explode from the nerves (if you haven't sailed, when becalmed, there is always a residual swell, even a tiny one. Everything that normally is held taut by the wind, and everthing loose belowdecks creaks, rattles, squeaks and bangs at random until your nerves get stripped fit to murder).

I have always felt it adds so much of an edge to know the experience.

This said, the edges you want to use must be applied with clear aim to sharpen the story and the mood.

Life before our current level of technology was actually quite intricate. Last thing I want to do is insult that sort of intelligence, or denigrate a reader - if they are to believe in the rest of the story, the details support the frame of their credibility.

I also confess to a great deal of curiosity - it is fun to see how things fit and too often, I've gotten splendid inspiration for the scenes in question because I went after the research. Perhaps my way of immersing myself deeper into the story.

If a writer is going to 'make up' what can be done with research - well, magic systems, worlds, all that intricacy has to work, too....laziness doesn't work quite so well, there, as the invention must have logical bearings.

Good research background can add to the tension very well....if you've ever tried to shoot a high powered bow with a primitive bowstring in the rain - guess what...grin. You're plucked.

One of the funniest bloopers I see is the weight of the weapons....that, one, a woman cannot lift such and such a sword, or that you have to be Brawn's Own Self to wear this or that bit of armor....if you have ever picked up, handled, or swung a museum piece sword or put on a helm for a foot soldier - you realize very quick - they are LIGHT! You had to be able to swing them for HOURS or wear them all day....the actual period weapons are not wearing, they couldn't be. (Yes, I've experimented, handled such things, watched demonstrations of what a blade will do, or a knife, or etc, under what circumstances.) Another: if you put on a mail shirt, and bend over without belting the thing, it WILL slither off over your head; and also, you can only raise your arms about shoulder high, because the links compress and lock your range of movement.

To me little stuff like this makes a big difference, knowing. Some readers may not miss the lack.

For my books, I want the reader to BE THERE.

[Janny]

I promised chapter two: Industry hurdles.

Once upon a time, you sold your stuff to a publisher, and you had a career editor - and if you made your numbers and grew your readership, you had a niche for your writing life.

Modern times - how they've changed what once was a gentlemen's business.

Publishers are not little family businesses, they are multinational corporations. Editors come and go, get promoted, fired, or eliminated by downsizing and mergers.

Trying to get a very long work done in today's climate has proven to be quite a challenge.

The first trip: The Curse of the Mistwraith sold independently to HarperCollins in London, and to Roc books, (when Roc was only Penguin USA) in the US. By the time the book went to press, the acquiring editor for my stuff had already moved on to another company. I got on with his replacement quite well, however, when it came time to send out The Ships of Merior, HarperCollins USA was just starting up a fantasy line, and they hired in - you got it - my original editor.

The pressure was extreme: place all the books with HarperCollins US and UK, and let London run the show. In fact the pressure became irresistible - ten books under contract (some backlist, and 5 of the Light and Shadow titles) AND the promise that the instant Roc let up with Mistwraith, it would be snapped up and added to the list.

Scary to think of SPLITTING A SERIES between two houses, everything, I was assured, would be in place to keep the series contiguous. How could I go wrong?

In the game of jackstraws that is publishing - in short a lot can happen in a very short time.

While writing Ships, all seemed rosy....until internal politics began to erode the shape of the picture...power shifts in huge companies, positions jockey. Very quickly my editor was working for another department, and the US higher ups were not in synch with the London hierarchy at all.

And I wrote this monster manuscript. In fact (in manuscript pages, at two hundred fifty words to the typewritten sheet, Ships as written was 1600 pages. Owie.

Britain was first to howl: the sort of spine they constructed for their hardbacks could not handle the sheer size. They insisted on splitting the book in two.

The USA stitched their bindings - they felt the size was OK.

What to do?

Fortunately for me, I write a 'two stage' punch into my books - there will be a burning climax point at the middle and an even bigger convergency and whallop at the end. So Britain's edition spawned Ships of Merior and Warhost of Vastmark.

The series was very young, at this stage. I asked (and got) that the book would remain one cover for its US printing, mostly to give the reviewers the original picture - and never Ever realizing the confusion to occur down the line.

Along comes the paperback - and the USA wants to split the title, too, because they said, the spine would crack. OK - quality books matter.

This is why if you have the US hardback, this discussion will only cover the bit in Part One. (Part Two became Warhost).

If you are only just getting started, never fear! The first climax at the end of Ships gives you a satisfying ending and a pause point, not a cliff hanger.

But Arc II (Ships and Warhost) actually was designed to be one story.

Why the Arcs?
That's tomorrow's chapter.

[Sandra]

You already know how much I love your books, Janny, but I'll add it here. The world you create is frickin' AWESOME, and it's because of the research and the fact that everything rings true. Authenticity cannot be faked, even in fantasy (to Amelia's comment above).

[Janny]

Sandra AKA Sleo wrote: "You already know how much I love your books, Janny, but I'll add it here. The world you create is frickin' AWESOME, and it's because of the research and the fact that everything rings true. Authe..."

What a compliment, thank you!

[Janny]

The Arcs:

Each 'phase' of this epic work encompasses a single thrust of action - which will graduate and change as the characters and the backdrop world factions are impacted by the events.

The first arc set the stage, established the conflict, and showed Round One, where the two characters set under curse encounter each other, headlong.

Arc II, which encompasses Ships/Warhost demonstrates the reaction and action taken by both sides - how Lysaer and Arithon choose to handle the problem, and the impacts that affect those nearest to them. The arc finish pushes the conflict to the next stage - where victory and defeat, trial and failure, force the next stage of change.

Arc III opens up the world stage - but that is another book's topic.

With the main epic marked into arcs, the reader will have a sense of the mapwork that shows where the build points reach climax.

Here the formatting comes into its own (One main chapter, followed by two smaller chapters, and three one line encapsulations) - enabling the reader to see action moved forward or wound down, without wasting dramatic space over long and tedious scenes that did little to energize the story.

How did you find the formatting, do you find the arc markers helpful?

[Amelia]

Janny wrote: "Amelia wrote: "I was reading comments in another group I've joined and I saw someone's comment that went something like this: 'Since I'm writing a fantasy book, I had lots of time to do other thin..."

People do try to write fantasies without really doing a lot of research. The goods ones don't. I think some people think since it's fantasy, it's not real, so they can do whatever they want. Those are the ones that irk me a little. At least some basic research helps any book get some grounding.

Even reading how your stories got into my hands is great. Keep it coming. I'm off to go camping so I'll have to catch up later.