The Sword and Laser discussion
E-Reader Smackdown!
Interesting story about an agent who is going around the publishers' backs and publishing e-book versions for some of his clients, relying on the somewhat flaky "definition" of ebook rights. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/22/boo...Of note, "Mr. Wylie said his new company would focus on older titles whose digital rights are not owned by traditional publishers. The books will be available exclusively at Amazon’s Kindle store for two years.
In making the announcement Mr. Wylie opened a new front, and a possible negotiating tool, in a debate over e-book rights for what are called backlist titles. Many traditional publishers have said they own the electronic rights to those books, but some authors and their estates have disagreed, arguing that since the books were published before e-books existed, the digital rights were not explicitly sold to the publishers."
I wish ebook publishers would realize that there's a lot more to e-readers than Kindle. It suck that Mr. Wylie's company is only going to put out Kindle editions. It would be far better for them to use the more generic epub format.
Sandi wrote: "I wish ebook publishers would realize that there's a lot more to e-readers than Kindle. It suck that Mr. Wylie's company is only going to put out Kindle editions. It would be far better for them ..."I agree. But that is the problem with all DRM in any electronic media. Locked down to one device and totally crippled. I believe it will take a few years but eventually the publishers will realize (much like the music industry) that DRM actually hurts them more than it helps.
Terpkristin: On a note about that story, I read an article about it in the AP and was totally impressed. The publishing business is in for a rude surprise in the next few years I think. As E-readers become more ubiquitous I believe there is going to be more of this "direct selling" from an Author to the public thorough the internet. I think this agent is just ahead of the curve.
I have a Kindle 2 and LOVE it, but man oh man do I want the new Kindle 3. I'd get the Wi-Fi + 3G version if I got it. http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Wireless...
But I like being on your lawn! It's comfy :-)
@John: I agree. The ability to lend and borrow books is part of the fun. Part of the reason I bought my Nook rather than another e-reader is because of the ability to lend a book to others with a Nook. I was disappointed when I found out this doesn't apply to all books though.
Stieg Larsson (Dragon Tatoo) Is First Author To Sell 1M E-Bookshttp://news.org/story/10/07/29/193321...
@Harold: Apparently more and more libraries have ebooks available. I know the Chicago library has ebooks in the Adobe EPUB eBooks, Adobe PDF eBooks and Mobipocket eBooks formats. I haven't tried them yet since I have to many books to read right now but that is a pretty cool service.
ok after much debate i finally decided on going with the Nook the format openess kinda won me over.So i have had it for about 2 weeks and read 4 books on it.i must say the interface on it i find a bit i dont know clumsy i guess i would call it.But overall i thought the experience was not too bad.So normally if im in love with something i know right away and so after 2 weeks i didn't believe i was in love, a nice flirtatious feeling up I would've said had anyone asked.That was until i got a book i had pre-ordered before i brought the nook,so here i am 2 days into reading this paperback and the book is good dont get me wrong but i find myself anxious to get back to reading on the nook, i'm actually feeling a bit awkward reading the paperback.How did that happen?
like i said i pretty much know immediately how i feel about something but this darn nook crept up on me and i think i may be becoming a e-book convert and i laugh since i was really reluctant to get one in the begining if the price hadnt dropped like it did i never would have even thought about getting one.
I am having a hard time deciding between the kindle 3 and the nook. After doing some research I found that a nook 2 might be coming out soon. Now I'm thinking maybe I should wait for some more nook 2 details to come out but I am not sure how long of a wait that might be. Does anyone out there have any nook 2 details? Thanks!
I saw someone burn a Nook on Tosh.0. I can't find it on youtube. He announced "and now I will burn 10,000 books!"
@Kyle: Not sure when the Nook 2 will come out but 2 of the reasons I chose the Nook have to do with not needing a Nook 2 to make improvements. Those reasons are:1) It is all software based so the only reason for a physical upgrade will be when there is a better e-ink screen available.
2) That software is Android based so it is reliable and future updates won't be neglected.
Just a thought for you.
Tamahome wrote: "I saw someone burn a Nook on Tosh.0. I can't find it on youtube. He announced "and now I will burn 10,000 books!""It was a Kindle. It was funny because it didn't burn well.
One of the nice things about the Nook is that I'm able to buy ebooks at multiple stores where they can all go on the Nook due to the ePub formats. I have bought eBooks on not only B&N, but Borders and Sony Stores, and they all read fine on the Nook. I used Adobe Digital Editions to get the Sony and Borders books on the Nook. It's kind of nice to be able to sometimes find a better price or more content on one site or another.
I have a Kindle and love it. I read the same books on my kindle at home and my pc at work (using the kindle app there), and it synchs perfectly between them and always knows what page I'm on.
The ability to buy books straight from the device is incredibly convenient.
Having free 3g is pretty sweet too.
The built-in dictionary is very cool and useful, and you can resize and format the text to make it look the way you want.
The text-to-speech isn't bad, it doesn't sound completely hawking-like, but its not quite natural speech either. You can make it do male or female though, so that's kind of cool.
Overall its just a great device and I read quite a bit more now that I've got it, it just really enhances the whole experience.
The ability to buy books straight from the device is incredibly convenient.
Having free 3g is pretty sweet too.
The built-in dictionary is very cool and useful, and you can resize and format the text to make it look the way you want.
The text-to-speech isn't bad, it doesn't sound completely hawking-like, but its not quite natural speech either. You can make it do male or female though, so that's kind of cool.
Overall its just a great device and I read quite a bit more now that I've got it, it just really enhances the whole experience.
M.R. wrote: "Kindle.... the K3 is awsome and with BnN feeling financial woes the Nook might fade. Get Kindle for PC at amazon. Its free. Buy Kindle books and read them from your PC screen. "Barnes and Noble may go through some changes but it will be along for a long time along with the Nook. K3 has a great new screen but I'll still take the Nook and it's openness rather than Kindles proprietary system.
It will be a sad day if Amazon does win the format wars, since it is a closed proprietary incompatible-with-other-devices format (based on MobiPocket). I'm not so sure it will win, however, since all the other ebook stores largely support the open ePub format. What I like about the Nook is that I can shop at other stores. I routinely get great coupons (33-40% off) from Borders that I can use for eBooks. I've purchased other books from Sony that were not available elsewhere, and those work fine as well.
I've been told at the Boulder B&N that the Nook is actually a separate entity that has been doing well despite the retail store's financial woes. It'll be sad if the brick-and-mortar stores go away because I love grabbing a book from the huge selection and some coffee and hanging out in the cafe.
I would like to know if there is any advantage at all besides price to just buying paper type books? In ten years, say, will most people be reading e-books?
Welwyn wrote: "I would like to know if there is any advantage at all besides price to just buying paper type books? In ten years, say, will most people be reading e-books?"In ten years, I think most people will be using e-readers for fiction, especially the stuff that you get in mass-market paperbacks that you don't necessarily want taking up space.
I think the technology has to improve a lot before they're really suitable for non-fiction or textbooks. Of course, it 10 years, the technology will improve quite a lot.
Welwyn wrote: "I would like to know if there is any advantage at all besides price to just buying paper type books? In ten years, say, will most people be reading e-books?"Any advantage besides price? If I have trouble sleeping, I can grab my device from the bedside table and turn the backlight very low, and read for a half-hour or so until I'm drowsy again. No need to turn on the light to read a paperback. No need to get out of bed and sit on the couch to read. Just move an arm, read a while, go back to sleep.
How about this advantage? I can take my device anywhere, anytime. Walking down the hall at work, with 150+ books on my person. Got 5 minutes between meetings - not enough time to finish any work project, not enough time to get started on some office chat, but certainly enough time to read a few more screens.
I still enjoy reading paperbacks and hardcovers, but nothing beats the versatility and convenience of reading ebooks.
Another advantage is digital storage. I really have no room nor the desire to spend money on ANOTHER bookshelf...I read my Kindle books all over the place. At home, I read them on the actual Kindle. At work (if I can grab a few minutes to take a break), or in line at the grocery store, or while waiting in a doctor's office, I read using the Kindle app on my phone.
I still buy some books in print/hardcover, but that's more because I've already got many by the author or in a series in print.
Sandi wrote: "In ten years, I think most people will be using e-readers for fiction, especially the stuff that you get in mass-market paperbacks that you don't necessarily want taking up space.I think the technology has to improve a lot before they're really suitable for non-fiction or textbooks. Of course, it 10 years, the technology will improve quite a lot."
my opinion is pretty much exactly the opposite.
I think that text books will be the first to go to eReaders. I already buy as many technical books as eBooks now. Easier to search and reference.
While I am much more likely to buy fiction in dead tree editions.
Right now all I have for an eReader is my HTC mobile phone but I plan on getting a tablet of some type soon. My opinion might change once I start reading on a true eReader.
Thanks for your replies, and I'm sorry I didn't frame the question in the way I meant. I meant, is there any advantage to paper books? Is there a chance, do you think, that people will still even want paper books ten years down the road? I certainly see the argument for e-readers. I'm just wondering how you see the print medium as time goes by. Will it disappear?
Paper books can be more easily shared than most ebooks (even with the Nook, there can be caveats and stuff that doesn't work properly).I don't see it disappearing in entirety. But I could see it becoming like vinyls now, and to some extent how CD's are...maybe going the way of the dodo, but very slowly, as there will always be eccentrics...
Welwyn wrote: "Thanks for your replies, and I'm sorry I didn't frame the question in the way I meant. I meant, is there any advantage to paper books? Is there a chance, do you think, that people will still even..."Paper has a few notable advantages. You can loan someone your book. You can take it into the tub. You don't need power to read it. Although I hate it when people write in my books, the annotation process in a paper book is different than annotation in an eBook.
There is also physical sensations in reading a paper book that are not replicated in the eBook experience.
I think that there will be a time when the print book goes away, but I think that it is far longer than 10 years into the future.
I also think that after the market for paper books is finally gone, books will continue to be a stand alone product. As books will be created as a standalone eReader containing that title or maybe all the books in a series, or all the books by an author.
As someone who likes to read in the tub I hope that the day when bath friendly books are a thing of the past it a long tome off.
Shane wrote: "As someone who likes to read in the tub I hope that the day when bath friendly books are a thing of the past it a long tome off. "I'm a tub reader, too! I have double-Ziploc bag my Kindle. I used to do that with my camera when going caving, it works like a champ, as long as I turn it on and don't let it sleep before putting it in the bag. I've contemplated buying a map bag or something for it, like is used on boats to keep maps/documents/small electronics dry even in bad weather or heavy swell (something like http://www.rei.com/product/752384 )
Of course, if you wanted to go super-protective with an ereader in a tub, you could use your Kindle in a tub in a bag like this one: http://www.rei.com/product/784156I've used bags like that caving and kayaking, had complete submersion with everything staying dry. :)
And paper is more durable than any electronic medium.I can buy a paper back and toss it on the car dash board for later reading. Anyone who tosses my nook will soon live to regret it.
I can still read the books I bought back in the 70's. I seriously doubt I will be able to read anything I have on the nook by the year 2050 (beyond the mere fact that I'll be dead by then)
Stan wrote: "And paper is more durable than any electronic medium.My experience has been the opposite.
I cannot read my paperbacks from the 60s and 70s. They have dried out - the binding and paper are too brittle. I do have 40 year old digital documents that can be read without damage.
If my eReader is damaged I lose nothing, except the cost of device replacement. All my documents, including ebooks, are backed up in multiple locations (desktop and two cloud storage accounts) with automated sync. Replace, restore, done. Cheaper than replacing my brittle books.
Barring some apocalypse (major solar flare, nuclear war, zombie uprising, digital mismanagement, etc.), I don't see how paper could be more durable than digital.
I'm a fan of my kindle but have one major concern and that is that ebooks may eventually greatly diminish the 2nd hand book market. I'll take a chance for a buck on books that I'd never pay $9.99 on. And in my student days, cheap used paperbacks were essential.Lot's of books are widely available at very cheap prices through both local and Amazon used books. It would be a significant loss if that went away.
Al, I'm glad you mentioned 2nd-hand books. I own a Nook, but I tend to buy books used if I can. $2 for a paperback and $5 for a hardcover is still the best I can ask for.I'm reading The Count of Monte Cristo on the Nook, and I have to say that paper has the advantage here, even though the paper book is a tome. This is simply because the french words don't come out well in the font (even though it was free). The best version I found was the Project Gutenberg edition, and that is still missing the accents over the letters, but it's readable at least. The Google scans I tried were pretty terrible probably due to an OCR software that doesn't recognize non-english spellings. I'm actually considering buying the Penguin edition if only to get a definitive version of the book.
I also wish there were footnotes in the above eBook. I have yet to see footnotes done well on an eBook reader.
I miss some of the great art or pictures that ends up on the covers of some of the books I buy. The e-ink doesn't cut it and the iPad's glare annoys the heck out of me.
I still enjoy NOT having a powered gadget in front of my face at all times, but eBooks are good for things I don't want on the shelf, but I'm still waiting for a good eBook solution. It's really just barely usable currently, in my opinion.
In my mind the eBook is not going to replace paper any time soon. Just stop by The Strand used bookstore in Manhattan and you may tend to agree.
Dan wrote: "I also wish there were footnotes in the above eBook. I have yet to see footnotes done well on an eBook reader."Not sure what the footnotes were like on the Nook, but I gotta say, the (seemingly infinite) end notes in Infinite Jest (and end notes to end notes) were significantly easier to navigate on my Kindle than in the paper version.....
terpkristin wrote: Not sure what the footnotes were like on the Nook, but I gotta say, the ..."Very cool. Infinite Jest was a book I was looking to buy on the Nook, so I just took the plunge and bought it. The footnotes actually work as I would expect them to. I guess some publishers just haven't taken the time to set up the links for some older books. Thanks for the tip, Kristin!
Hi all, I'm really enjoying my basic Sony eReader, as it does the things I want very well, and I've spent minimal money.
First, I have never installed the sony software. Its crud, and totally unneeded. Instead, I use Calibre, the freeware ebook manager.
Second, I just won't buy anything with DRM. And I've never had to. Instead, I've discovered zillions of new, great non-DRM authors that I would never have known of through traditional print publishers. And I'm not talking just classics. Is there crud out there in nontraditioanl publishing? Sure there is, but its easy enough to stay away from (how do we learn which crud web sites to not bother with?)
Another great thing is that I find a lot of longer articles on the web that I tell my browser to "print" to a PDF, and then I stick it on my ereader for later.
I love this thing :) I still buy print books, but I never buy hardback, and I now buy far fewer paperbacks. (That said, I also don't pay more than paperback price for an ebook, either).
Lynne
Stan wrote: "And paper is more durable than any electronic medium...."If the publisher uses good acid-free stock. But lately it seems tha a lot of them are cheaping out.
Lynne wrote: "I use Calibre, the freeware ebook manager. Second, I just won't buy anything with DRM. And I've never had to. Instead, I've discovered zillions of new, great non-DRM authors that I would never have known of through traditional print publishers. "I like using Calibre as well for converting documents to ePub format, and it's a great way to sync up and manage content on your device of choice.
My original intent for an ereader was to consolidate my PDFs and public domain books on one device, with as little DRM as possible, but I have since bought several ebooks since from Sony, Borders, and B&N. I have been really impressed by how many good free ebooks are out there as well. That said, the DRM on the Nook and Sony eReader is not bad, since you can use Adobe Digital Editions to manage all the accounts. I'd rather not have to deal with DRM, of course, but once in a while I have to see what all the fuss is about with one book or another. I still usually buy print, but I'm starting to buy more fiction in ePub, DRM or no. I think subscribing to something like Analog is a great purpose for an ereader. I do like lending books and selling them back on occasion, so I'm a bit torn on which format I really enjoy owning the most.
Charles wrote: "Stan wrote: "And paper is more durable than any electronic medium.My experience has been the opposite.
I cannot read my paperbacks from the 60s and 70s. They have dried out - the binding and pap..."
It's kind of well researched if you are in the archival business. There are currently paper documents 1000's of years old.
The life span of a CD or DVD is only a few years (5 or 7)
As for 40 year old digital documents - I expect you had to make copies of them to different medias in order to preserve them - or do you still have them on their original 5 1/4 inch floppy disk, or Commadore 64 cassette back up tape :)
Stan, I don't disagree with anything you stated, but...As for 40 year old digital documents - I expect you had to make copies of them to different medias in order to preserve them
Of course. Over time this has gotten easier, to the point where it is automatic, scheduled, and stored in multiple locations. Something I'm unable to do with my deteriorating paperbacks. I choose the phrase "digital documents" carefully for my earlier post. It was meant to relate they are not tied to any specific media.
That was my point - any specific incarnation of a book is at risk. Paper or eReader. But an eReader is not a digital document, merely one of many possible incarnations. Digital's advantages are independence from media and infinitely copyable (cheaply).
It's kind of well researched if you are in the archival business. There are currently paper documents 1000's of years old.
The research shows that vellum, and other non-paper media, have lasted 1000s of years. Paper rarely does and only under very specific conditions. Most of the originals are lost. What few originals, of any medium, have survived are too delicate to be read by mere mortals. We read copies. Just like I read copies of digital documents.
The often misinterpreted statement that "paper" outlasts any specific digital medium is only a small portion of the archival research conclusions. I certainly heard enough sound bites about it. The research I'm familiar with took into account the nature of digital copies and allowed for the possibility of a longer lifetime. Long enough to state concerns about how future generations would interpret archaic language.
The life span of a CD or DVD is only a few years (5 or 7)
Lifespan of the best re-writable CD/DVD media are only 5 to 7 years on average. Studies have also concluded that some re-writable CD/DVD won't last 18 months.
Charles wrote: Studies have also concluded that some re-writable CD/DVD won't last 18 months@Charles Do you perhaps have any links to the research. I am trying to convince the company I work for to not use DVD's for archival purposes.
Sorry for the being off topic :)
Sorry, Kim, the links are gone. I read two studies for a archival/disaster recovery project for work 3-4 years ago, but I'm no longer at that company (no access to the project notes or the system with the links). One study was by Japanese researchers, the other, Dutch. Both were based on CD/DVD testing methodology published by the NIST for the Library of Congress (NIST publication 500-263, www.itl.nist.gov/iad/894.05/publicati...).Results of the studies agreed on the main points for recordable and re-writable media...archival grade (expensive) CD/DVDs met the promised lifetime (up to 300 years). The gotcha was off-the-shelf retail media - failures increased after 18 months, with the 5-7 year mark (as mentioned by Stan) as the point where most batches were considered unacceptable.
For the project I worked on, the company did move away from CD/DVDs, but not due to failure rates. The rational was if CD/DVDs failed, they could hide behind documented "best practices" and point the finger at the media manufacturer. But saving costs (an automated system vs. the manual labor of managing CD/DVDs) and selling the customer on "better" security (encryption vs. people handling CD/DVDs) caused their eyes to light up.
@Kim re:cd/dvd lifespanHere are some links from the "Optical Storage Technology Association" page which might help:
http://www.osta.org/technology/cdqa13...
Or go directly to their Archival Storage page and click on the left link titled "Optical Discs for Archiving" for a PDF white paper containing charts of Life Expectancy and Accelerated Aging Times
http://www.osta.org/technology/cosa.htm
@Charles: re: ability to copy e-media
A lot of DRM issue with ebooks right now make it difficult to copy them in a (legal) way so they can be viewed on something other than the device (nook/kindle) you purchased them with. (well - actually I think they get DRM'ed with your credit card number in conjunction with a licensed device)
/OffTopicThanks to @ Charles and Stan, that will point us in the right direction
/OnTopic
I have had my Kindle (WiFi) now for two weeks and when compared to the Sony PRS600 (Touch Edition) the screen differences are huge. Apparently I just did not realise how much the reflective touch layer made reading more difficult until I had something to compare it too.
The best feature though is the case with built in reading light although a softer light would be better it lights up the page for easy reading.
The send to Kindle and convert via email thing is nice, but I prefer to do it myself using Calibre so I can tweak to get it looking right.
@Kim I am thinking on selling my PRS600 cause I am having issues with reading off the small screen but never thought about how reflective the screen was. Are the screen size the same? I'm contemplating getting the Kindle DX so I can have a larger reading surface than on my PRS600.
True, but Amazon's DRM is easily removed and is part of my backup script. Not strictly holding to the letter of the law, but since I don't distribute copies to others, it keeps with the spirit.
Kim, I had the same opinion on the PRS600. It didn't bother me until I compared it to the Nook, and I know the Kindle's screen is similar, if not better now. I had a hard time with the Sony freezing up on me, however, so I ended up taking it back, but I miss the touch screen and the decent PDF viewing it offered.The DX just always seemed a little too pricey for me, but I've always wanted to try it out. Does anyone here read on one?
Dan I agree with you on the price. That's why it's still up for debate. I don't understand why there's such a big price gap. The screen size is a plus for me but is it worth that much?
@Lekeshua & DanThe Kindle has the same 6" display, it is just so much more readable on the Kindle. However I am keeping my PRS600 until the Kindle software supports PDF's as well as the Sony.
Oddly I never had my Sony hang that I can recall, but I have frozen up the Kindle three times in the last week.
I got the Kindle Dx after having the Kindle2. The larger size really helps for some tech books, but for travel, etc., I think the smaller Kindle is better.
I agree! Kindle Fire is just fantastic!
The Sword and Laser
Books mentioned in this topic
Infinite Jest (other topics)The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress (other topics)
The Passage (other topics)
Yeah, that's the part that seems to take a long time. And if I open it to my bookshelf, it takes a bit of time to figure that out.