Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What else are you reading? (June 2010 - May 2013) *closed*
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Yvonne
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Aug 20, 2011 07:49PM
Sagajo wrote: "I think wave is also talking about the high percentage of sexual violence we see in m/m romance plots compared to m/f romance (and I don't mean bdsm). Especially recently if feels like rape is an e..." I find this trend quite disturbing. It's like now it's not enough that the mc gets raped but it must be continuously for a long time or it has to be a gang rape or body parts must be carved up to avoid the ho hum reaction. But what I truly dislike is if the mc just brushes off this stuff like it's nothing & get cured by good sex in a matter of days after the assault occurs. It essentially trivializes rape, assault & abuse against men.
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Yvonne wrote: "Sagajo wrote: "I think wave is also talking about the high percentage of sexual violence we see in m/m romance plots compared to m/f romance (and I don't mean bdsm). Especially recently if feels li..."It's not a great example but I had the same experience with mainstream murder/crime novels a few years ago. I just had the feeling that new crime books were trying to 'top' previous stories in the degree of sadism and evil perpetrated by the villains and I went right off them.
MandyM wrote: "Yvonne wrote: "Sagajo wrote: "I think wave is also talking about the high percentage of sexual violence we see in m/m romance plots compared to m/f romance (and I don't mean bdsm). Especially recen..."Oh God, mainstream serial killer stories are just awful these days. I dont get why people are so hooked up on James Patterson. I hate his books and the only reason I read them because they were available on my school library where I worked.
Cleon wrote: "Oh God, mainstream serial killer stories are just awful these days..."The last mainstream one I read had a serial killing/torturer dentist. It was a nightmare!
Cleon wrote: "MandyM wrote: "Yvonne wrote: "Sagajo wrote: "I think wave is also talking about the high percentage of sexual violence we see in m/m romance plots compared to m/f romance (and I don't mean bdsm). E..."I find James Patterson totally put-downable. All those page and a half chapters annoy the hell out of me.
I guess I've been lucky so far, because the only m/m I've read so far with a rape story line have been AE and Talker, and I felt they were both handled tastefully.
MandyM wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Oh God, mainstream serial killer stories are just awful these days..."The last mainstream one I read had a serial killing/torturer dentist. It was a nightmare!"
God, as if regular dentists weren't bad enough. Seriously, I've noticed it too and I really don't need to be nauseated to take violence seriously. And the mainstream gals shake off rapes too. (Hate those stories where a woman with a history of assault goes from not touching men to full out sex as soon as it's the hero who's in bed with her.)
I just finished Infected: Bloodlines by Andrea Speed. I cried so hard while reading the last chapter (I'm still crying, actually), that I don't know how I got to the end... 
I bought the whole series, Calathea, but haven't (all together now!) started it yet. Glad to hear you enjoyed it.eta: although, you didn't quite say you 'enjoyed it,' did you?
Me too. But is was done very well, it was absolutely not the author trying to to play on the reader's heart strings (''stimulate the lacrimal glands'' works probably only in German), it looked real.
mc wrote: "I bought the whole series, Calathea, but haven't (all together now!) started it yet. Glad to hear you enjoyed it.eta: although, you didn't quite say you 'enjoyed it,' did you?"
Oh, well, it is a wonderfull book! You should just have some tissues not far from reach... at least during the last chapters of book #2. And they're not overly dramatic written, mind you. It's just... Paris! *tearsupagain*
There's still part three. And Andrea said she's working on a prequel...
Re Ginn Hale-I bought the series; am stalwartly holding out reading until it's complete--hard to wait, but not so hard, I think, as waiting for the next chapter like y'all are doing.Bought Bear otter the kid--y'all were enthusiastic and the reviews very much so.
Right now I'm reading a Roman/Greco historical fiction--the first person voice is a young man; his love interest is male. Very detailed historically and good story telling.
As grateful as I am to have a relative wealth of m/m stories to read, I often find I'm dissatisfied w/the straightforward romance novel, even bored w/the idea of it--although sometimes of course they're terrific--But what I look for, I realize, is a m/m center to a LOT of story. The same truly interesting things--rich historical feel, or detailed world building if it's fantasy or scifi,etc,--that I can't soak up as I wd like to in a "straight" story, I love in a m/m tale. That's why I loved M. Kei's seagoing tales. They were authentically detailed (I think; Kei is a sailor on sailing ships) and wonderfully romantic at the same time.
I've always been fascinated by both Greek and Roman history (though I don't even qualify as knowledgable amateur) but bored and disappointed by the inevitable hetero leads. What I'm reading now is by Paul Waters and titled, The Republic of Vengeance. It takes place after the last battle w/Hanibal's forces in Carthage if that tells you anything. I still don't know who Caesar is, so I haven't placed the era. Anyway, the lead is very appealing, sympathetic. He wd normally be too young a character to interest me but has a very old head. I'm liking it. Have a look if it sounds like fun.
Candice wrote: "I've always been fascinated by both Greek and Roman history (though I don't even qualify as knowledgable amateur) but bored and disappointed by the inevitable hetero leads. ..."I assume you've read Mary Renault.
I consider angst to be much like BDSM - it tends to be a negative for me, but good writing and plot, and especially some humor, will redeem it. Honestly, if Josh wasn't such a good writer, he'd be pushing my angst boundaries.I can only think that people who say rape occurs more in M/M than in M/F don't read any urban fantasies at all, because as far as I can tell every single heroine in urban fantasy gets raped, usually with extra trimmings (kidnapped, having it broadcast to the public, torture, etc.) I haven't read any urban fantasy for a while because I got more than sick of it. Even if it is handled really well - enough!
I have read an M/M with a rape scene that I liked a lot (the book, not the rape scene, which I skimmed). Human Condition. I think it was because it was in flashback after the main character had recovered and was living HEA. And it was well handled (actual therapy and PTSD), but not a lot of dwelling on the misery but rather the survivor working hard to get over it and live his life. And even so, I don't want to read any more of these.
Charming, I have not read much romance urban fantasy (if there is such a genre) but urban fantasy as a seperate genre doesn't have much rape imo, or maybe I have just managed to read the right books. It's usually a genre with very strong female heroes, written for female readers. Ofcourse the threat is there but I don't think it is trivialized in the same way I sometimes see lately in m/m. I know there was a rape scene in Patricia Briggs series of Merecedes Thompson but it was definetely not trivialized.Just as an example, out of the 4 books I've read recently, 3 of them had reference to rape scenes or rape scenes included in them and it was not really anything that I could have guess from reading the blurb. That's a bit much imo, for just randomly picked books.
Mod
Really? Because I think the angst in my stories is pretty standard romance novel stuff. I certainly have angsty moments along with hurt/comfort and sex and all the other basic romantic elements, but not extreme. At least I try to keep it all gently balanced. Maybe it's not as gentle as I think. ;-)
:)-Josh, your vid makes me very afraid...
Josh wrote: "Really? Because I think the angst in my stories is pretty standard romance novel stuff. I certainly have angsty moments along with hurt/comfort and sex and all the other basic romantic elements, but not extreme. At least I try to keep it all gently balanced. Maybe it's not as gentle as I think. ;-) ..."Very gentle, IMO. Even though I haven't come across any of those gang rape stories that apparently abound. I would avoid them like the plague if I knew of any.
Some comment (can't find it any more, maybe deleted??) mentioned AE as a case of rape fic - which pulled me up short. Thinking hard I've concluded that it must be the conclusion of AE1. Rape or not, I always thought Adrien just brought this on himself. Bordering on TSTL, really. Certainly not your typical case of rape. Again my very own opinion.
Charming wrote: "I consider angst to be much like BDSM - it tends to be a negative for me, but good writing and plot, and especially some humor, will redeem it. Honestly, if Josh wasn't such a good writer, he'd be..."I hadn't considered Josh's books angsty in any kind or way. Hm, maybe we're still tangled in a kind of definition problem as everybody seems to have another opinion on what "angst" really is...
Calathea wrote: "I hadn't considered Josh's books angsty in any kind or way. Hm, maybe we're still tangled in a kind of definition problem as everybody seems to have another opinion on what "angst" really is..."I would consider Josh on the lower end too; if his books push someone's threshold I'd say it was set pretty low. For me, angst requires not just the triggering event (eg. violence) but an amped up emotional response on the part of the characters. Josh's books have the events but the characters cope and they don't dwell on it ad infinitum so the angst level in my eyes isn't high.
Mod
:-D Heh.
Mod
Adrien doesn't view it as rape, which I think is the key element there. He's not happy about it, but he's a lot more worried about other possiblities than having sex.
Josh, the books I have read of yours I would not classify as having a lot of angst. I think they have conflicts in them which I think makes them interesting. When I think angst I think more of an Amy Lane book I read, The Locker Room, which though I did like, had all sorts of crying & people throwing up & it's all written in a very melodramatic way. I can take these kinds of books in small doses.
And I had the same experience as Sagajo where 3 books I happened to read at random all had rape scenes in the plot that weren't really mentioned in the blurb. It just seems like a trend in m/m books lately.
Calathea wrote: "I hadn't considered Josh's books angsty in any kind or way. Hm, maybe we're still tangled in a kind of definition problem as everybody seems to have another opinion on what "angst" really is......"I'm puzzled, too. I never thought Josh's books belonged in any "angst" category, neither the English one nor the German one. *G*
Josh wrote: "Adrien doesn't view it as rape, which I think is the key element there. He's not happy about it, but he's a lot more worried about other possiblities than having sex...."Worse for Jake, probably.
Mod
The order you read stuff really does make a difference -- I mean, it's random and there's no controlling it, but I'll have people write and say "why are all your characters disabled?" And actually only a percentage of my characters are disabled -- not even disabled so much as dealing with some kind of health issue or perhaps addiction or trauma.
As Kaje mentioned, my characters cope. There is little melodrama in my work -- I write adults -- and that does probably change the dyanmic considerably.
But in a conversation with Wave she mentioned how much rape and particularly gang rape her reviewers are having to read, so apparently it is a trend. And a disturbing one since, let's face it, it's purely for kink. Gang rape is not a major or serious threat for most of us outside of prison.
Mod
Josh wrote: "I had the pleasure of starting Astrid Amara's story for the Irregular's anthology. I was supposed to be reading other stuff, but I just got totally swept away."Lucky you!
Mod
Lucky you!"
I know. I'm really looking forward to reading the whole anthology in print. I've seen about half of Ginn's story and now Astrid's and a wee snippet of Nikki's. I think it's going to be really fun. The stories are all so very different.
Josh wrote: "I know. I'm really looking forward to reading the whole anthology in print. I've seen about half of Ginn's story and now Astrid's and a wee snippet of Nikki's. I think it's going to be really fun. The stories are all so very different. "You guys are like my dream team :P
Josh wrote: "I know. I'm really looking forward to reading the whole anthology in print. I've seen about half of Ginn's story and now Astrid's and a wee snippet of Nikki's. I think it's going to be really fun. The stories are all so very different. ..."That's what I loved about those Hell Cops: all great stories but all quite different. I'm really looking forward to The Irregulars.
Liade wrote: "That's what I loved about those Hell Cops: all great stories but all quite different. I'm really looking forward to The Irregulars. "I also appreciated that the stories were all situated in the same world, so even if they were different, the same basic concept was shared.
Sagajo wrote: "I also appreciated that the stories were all situated in the same world, so even if they were different, the same basic concept was shared...."Of course, that was the particular fun about the Hell Cops anthologies. And it's what I'm particularly looking forward in The Irregulars.
Josh wrote: "Really? Because I think the angst in my stories is pretty standard romance novel stuff. I certainly have angsty moments along with hurt/comfort and sex and all the other basic romantic elements, but not extreme. At least I try to keep it all gently balanced. Maybe it's not as gentle as I think. ;-) "They aren't all, certainly, but the last two I read were
(addiction) and
(depression). Now that I think about it, both of these issues are sensitive ones for me, so . . .
Mod
Josh wrote: "Well, those both are my high angsty books, you're right, Charming. Those are a bit outside my normal sunny clime."I agree about Snowball in Hell, but to me Come Unto These Yellow Sands was more in line with your other books involving a character with a serious disablity/chronic illness. Which to me is a very good thing, not a disadvantage, I love that particular feature.
Liade wrote: "Josh wrote: "Adrien doesn't view it as rape, which I think is the key element there. He's not happy about it, but he's a lot more worried about other possiblities than having sex...."Worse for ..."
I've always thought that, too. Rape is more of a psychological crime, so for Adrien -- if he didn't view it that way -- it wasn't as bad as it probably was for Jake.
Liade wrote: "I agree about Snowball in Hell, but to me Come Unto These Yellow Sands was more in line with your other books involving a character with a serious disablity/chronic illness. Which to me is a very good thing, not a disadvantage, I love that particular feature. "There's a lot of addiction in my extended family, so I think it hits me extra hard. The part where Swift calls his sponsor and finds out he is using again was especially tough. And the part where Swift's mother wouldn't speak to him. It was well worth it - I gave the book five stars and that is much rarer than it used to be. But in the hands of a lesser author, it could have gone very, very wrong.
Lori K wrote: ":)-Josh, your vid makes me very afraid..."Me too :( I need to stock up on tissues :(
I loved loved loved Shades of Gray! Thanks for the nudge Antonella and Laura!! Now what to read??? I haven't read Hell Cops and I do have it....
I don't even think in terms of angst for your books, Josh, but I think I've read the word angst so much over the last three days, that I no longer no what it means anymore. I think you do great conflict, which one needs in any good story, yes?Forced sexual situations? That's a tough one. In real life, awful. In writing, well, it depends on the situation. Lolita is disturbing, but certainly a classic. What about poor Tess? Emotional violence can be so much worse, don't you think?
In terms of m/m, I can suspend reality, if it's done right, if I'm in the right mood. I read things that I never though I would like. But gang rape? I've never read it (yet) in a way that I can deal with.
And here I end this with a preposition in a room full of writers. Don't shun me! English isn't my first language!
Re-read Don't Look Back again last night. I love that story.
Don't Look Back is one of my very faves, mc. I might have to go read it, now.
It's a perfectly complete story, even though it isn't very long, isn't it, Anne? That's the kind of story that makes me want to stop, or not even start writing, just because it makes think, oh, I can't do that. Why try? (I know, that's not my genre, anyway (actually, I don't have a genre), but you know what I mean.)
I think the difference between Josh's angst and many other authors is that his is well done, as opposed to overdone. The Dark Tide was chock-full of angst - it ended with Adrien sitting on a rock and crying! The difference is that no one wallowed in it. He sat on the rock, cried a bit, and then got up and walked off into the sunset with Jake. (well, maybe away from the sunset since they're on the west coast and I think the final scene happened at or near a beach) Taylor from the Dangerous Ground series has the potential to be a super-angsty character because he leads with his emotions. Old Poison gave him some pretty angsty moments, for sure. But again, no wallowing. Well, maybe a little, because it is Taylor, after all, and his emotions are always right there under the surface. But the big reunion between the two MCs isn't pages and pages of crying and I love yous and how would I have gone on without you, it was a hug and something along the lines of "Man, you stink." Josh drops him into a hole in the ground in Blood Heat, and instead of crying about it for three pages, Taylor asks "Why do these things always happen to me?", and then finds a way out of the hole. And the way out didn't even involve him scraping his way back up the hole, leaving a trail of blood where his fingernails had dug into the wall, all the while remembering the kitten stuck in a tree that he couldn't rescue when he was eight years old because he couldn't climb high enough. He just walks a bit and finds a way out. I think Josh's kind of angst is the same brand as that found in Shades of Gray. That book had true emotions and conflicts and solutions, and there were so many opportunities for it to go careening off the cliff of indulgent melodrama and overwrought emotions, but it never did, and that was so incredibly refreshing. It was an angst-laden read, but you don't realize it as your reading it and you hesitate to use the word to describe it to your friends because so many authors have abused angst and emotion and regrets and wishes that things had been different that you don't want to taint this wonderful, well-crafted and delicately written book with the label "angst".
Sagajo wrote: "Liade wrote: "That's what I loved about those Hell Cops: all great stories but all quite different. I'm really looking forward to The Irregulars. "I also appreciated that the stories were all sit..."
I loved getting different perspectives of the same world through the individual authors of the Hell Cop stories. It made the world seem so real to me to see one aspect of through the eyes of one author and one set of characters, and then the same world at two differing angles. It was a brilliant idea and those writers and their editor deserve a pat on the back for it.
mc wrote: "It's a perfectly complete story, even though it isn't very long, isn't it, Anne? That's the kind of story that makes me want to stop, or not even start writing, just because it makes think, oh, I ..."Exactly. I love so much about that story. I love that he goes through this life-changing event in (sort of) retrograde. I love the relationship. Yeah, it's a perfectly complete story. I have to go read it, now...
I finished Hot Head, and if anyone was curious, I can assure you it's very authentic. Damon did his research, for sure.
Anne wrote: "I finished Hot Head, and if anyone was curious, I can assure you it's very authentic. Damon did his research, for sure."I am very curious if there is anything you can't do... metalsmithing, writing, firefighting, cooking, baking, sewing, graphic design. God, woman, leave some for the rest of us! LOL. Just kidding. You're so cool.
Seriously, people, at this point I would consider it an act of mercy if the MM community stopped using the word "angst" altogher. Mercy towards the few remaining brain cells I seem to be operating on these days, that is.
Anne wrote: "I'm a horrible dancer."This is not making me feel better. Why?
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