Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What else are you reading? (June 2010 - May 2013) *closed*
Reggie wrote: "I have been taking a m/m break lately. I have been reading non-fiction. My new hobby is organizing my cookbooks and recipe collections. I found some well done, reasonably priced software out ther..."Reggie, Thank you for the rec. I have it, but haven't started it yet. I'll move to Wings next.
Anne wrote: "The slow thinking part of the brain is lazy, the brain always try to do what creates the least resistance...."
{smirk} or is it {smurk}? I think I spell with the slow thinking side!! LOL
@ Candice! Yes, it's different, interesting, and absorbing. I don't know my battle history so a lot of the references fly by me, but it is still a great read!
Funny I should happen to drop by in the midst of this discussion. :)I haven't been around much lately, I know. For some months I've found so much about the writing business so very wearying, I've avoided most social networking sites and genre-related blogs. Just maxed out, I guess. Twitter is tolerable, even amusing, as long as I don't follow the wrong people, but that's as far as I've been able to get.
Immersing myself in nonfiction -- history, mostly -- has helped too. So that's my rather roundabout way of telling y'all what I've been reading. Learning about particularly trying periods (there are so many!) or horrific events (ditto) has a way of putting things in perspective.
K.Z. wrote: "Funny I should happen to drop by in the midst of this discussion. :)I haven't been around much lately, I know. For some months I've found so much about the writing business so very wearying, I've..."
Perspective is good sometimes.Yesterday the trial against the guy who killed 77 people last summer in Oslo, started. It weighs on everybody's mind.
One of the discussions around this guy has been about the Internet forums where he found like minded people and a kind of "political" rationalisation for his deeds. These forums are known for spewing hateful and wrong propaganda by people hiding behind nicks, not showing their face to the world and not bothering with such mundane things as truth, decency or compassion.
I know, a long shot from this to the discussion we have here, but in my mind, perhaps wrongly, there is a connection. And that is anonymity, how easy it is to hide and then the veneer of civilisation slips and you see the monster underneath.
As for history books, one of the most gruesome I have read(and I wasn't able to finish it even) is King Leopold's Ghost: A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism in Colonial Africa. Do you know about it? So much pain and suffering, it is sometimes hard to believe in the good of mankind.
Mod
I haven't been around much lately, I know. For some months I've found so much about the writing business so very wearying, I've..."
Nice to see you back, KZ!
Yes, as I friend and I were discussing the other day, I picked the right year to go on sabbatical. I've never known there to be so many blow ups and confrontations in such a relatively small circle of people as we've seen in the last year or so.
It IS wearying. Not least because overall the work and the writing in our genre is not improving from where it was twenty months ago. My theory is people are spending more time online promoting and arguing (often the same thing) and just talk-talk-talking and less time really crafting the work.
We've plateaued again.
It's not a creative environment.
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..."
Good Lord. It's startling you bring this up because I was thinking of this madman a couple of days ago when we were considering whether spewing bile on the internet is a safety valve or merely a broken valve.
I believe it's a broken valve. I think it leads unstable types to believe their inappropriate expressions of rage and frustration are A-OK. And when they hook up with likeminded whack jobs...? It -- whatever "it" is -- turns into a self-justifying crusade.
This is not to say that it's not okay to openly and energetically argue and object and debate. That's the sign of a healthy democratic society.
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It sounds fascinating.
I've been watching a lot of documentaries on World War 2 and the Nazis. In fact, I've now cut myself off from watching anything more about Nazis because it's so sickening, so disheartening.
When you're a kid reading about the Nazis, it seems like an awful fairytale, so terrible, so unreal. Impossible that such a thing could happen again, let alone in our own country.
But as an adult you see that it's really not so very amazing and it's certainly not impossible that it could happen again. In this or any other country, given the right set of circumstances.
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "As for history books, one of the most gruesome I have read(and I wasn't able to finish it even) is King Leopold's Ghost A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism in Colonial Africa. Do you..."Scratch the surface and you will see the monster ...
I had to stop reading about the Nazi and the Holocaust after some years, I couldn't take it anymore.
Sometimes it is hard to see the good, but then when you read or watch a documentary about the Nazis, or about genocide in Africa or any other monstrosity, there are also the stories of one man saving others, hiding refugees, a mother who has lost her own child and takes care of another woman's child in stead, brave people doing their outmost to help and to minimize the suffering, those little rays of light that makes it bearable after all. I need to believe that.
Sorry if I am a little depressed today, it has been hard to follow the trial these days, it hurts and I know there are those who hurt much worse than me.
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "One of the discussions around this guy has been about the Internet forums where he found like minded people and a kind of "political" rationalisation for his deeds. These forums are kn..."I agree, for some people these fora is where they find acceptance, so a broken valve is an apt description I think.
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..."
I can only imagine.
The events on that island are one of the most horrific I've ever read.
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "Sorry if I am a little depressed today, it has been hard to follow the trial these days, it hurts and I know there are those who hurt much worse than me. ..."
I can only imagine.
Th..."
Yes, they are. Thank you for your understanding.
Anne wrote: "Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "As for history books, one of the most gruesome I have read(and I wasn't able to finish it even) is King Leopold's Ghost A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism in Colonial A..."*hugs* I understand why you're feeling depressed. Now I stay away from stories about human cruelty because I simply can't stomach them anymore.
Anne wrote: "Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "Sorry if I am a little depressed today, it has been hard to follow the trial these days, it hurts and I know there are those who hurt much worse than me. ..."
I can only..."
Anne, that guy is having a lot of coverage here in Italy too and watching him makes me sick, seeing him cry because of his own propaganda makes me sick, so I don't know how people who lost young fellow citizens, and mothers, fathers, siblings, lovers could cope with that. You have all my understanding and sympathy, I can't begin to imagine.
Josh wrote: "It IS wearying. Not least because overall the work and the writing in our genre is not improving from where it was twenty months ago. My theory is people are spending more time online promoting and arguing (often the same thing) and just talk-talk-talking and less time really crafting the work. We've plateaued again.
It's not a creative environment. "
On the whole, I can't disagree. Which is why this past week was so amazing for me. I met so many smart, creative people who are passionate about romance, both reading and writing it. The ones I spent the most time with were the m/m crowd, and they were crackerjack. But the het/Steampunk/Urban Fantasy/everybody else majority were also sharp, passionate, and so welcoming. I think it's out there. I think there are people quietly working on really good stuff, and I think the sub-genre is gaining respect within the overall romance community. But it's hard to see, because as with so many other areas, the loud mouths draw all the attention. And boy howdy do we have some loud mouths in the GLBT romance community.
Cleon wrote: "Anne wrote: "Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "As for history books, one of the most gruesome I have read(and I wasn't able to finish it even) is King Leopold's Ghost A Story of Greed, Terror, and Heroism ..."Thanks, Cleon.
I used to be afraid that I was getting callous or too cynical since I had to stop reading about such stories, but now I believe maybe it is the other way around, like Josh says, when you grow up you realise this is true, it has happened and is happening still and you need to protect yourself a little from it. Which must be allowed. As long as one learns enough of history to realise what we are capable of doing and to learn from it.
Josh wrote: "When you're a kid reading about the Nazis, it seems like an awful fairytale, so terrible, so unreal. Impossible that such a thing could happen again, let alone in our own country. But as an adult you see that it's really not so very amazing and it's certainly not impossible that it could happen again. In this or any other country, given the right set of circumstances."
This week I'm leaving again for Italy to go here:
http://www.resistance-assembly.org/in...
It's a unique possibility of meeting European partisans and other people who fought against nazism and fascism during WW2 while they are still alive. It's sad, but they are all in their 80 and they won't live forever!
Mod
*hugs* You are in my thoughts and so are all the people who lost their loved ones in Utöya and Oslo. I can't even imagine how hard it is for all of you to follow that trial. Thinking about what happened on the 22nd of July makes me feel sick and makes me cry.
Anne wrote: "Yesterday the trial against the guy who killed 77 people last summer in Oslo, started. It weighs on everybody's mind."Yes, it must. I heard about the trial, and that man's attitudes, on the news. It's incomprehensible, isn't it?
I haven't read the Leopold book, but the material it covers sounds equally incomprehensible. And yet . . . smaller versions of such atrocities, born of such twisted thinking, happen every day all over the world. It seems sometimes as if human beings are a damned, doomed species, trapped on some evolutionary plateau a mere scream above hell.
Josh wrote: "It's not a creative environment."True. It isn't. I haven't written much of anything in weeks.
All the friction and factionalism and feuding just grind me down. And the ever-changing rules for political correctness, which I can’t seem to keep up with. And the ego-driven online hyperactivity that’s so often manipulative and self-serving.
I feel like an alien in this environment. Just can't thrive in it. Honestly, this is the first time in my writing career that I've felt like a creature from another age -- an anachronism.
Then there's the weekly torrent of releases. Yikes! But what’s worse is watching the crap rather than the cream rise to the top (certainly not always, but more than it should) -- a process I’ll never understand.
Yeah, a sabbatical sounds good right about now. And regardless of my current appetite for nonfiction, what I've read thus far about Irregulars makes it sound like a lovely, enchanted escape. I really must get this!
Currently reading March's read, "Boystown" and loving it. Just bought "Irregulars" today and will start reading it tomorrow.
K.Z. wrote: "Josh wrote: "It's not a creative environment."True. It isn't. I haven't written much of anything in weeks.
All the friction and factionalism and feuding just grind me down. And the ever-changing..."
Irregulars is definitely the best escapism there is right now, you should absolutely get it and enjoy it.
I have read it on my Kindle, but then I have been so lucky as to "win" a paper copy of it as well. I can't wait until it arrives. Sometimes it is lovely to have a book also as a physical thing, to hold and smell and feel. And not the least to look at, that lovely, sinister, terrific cover of the book! :)
Thanks to you all for being so nice yesterday when I brought my sadness to this group, totally outside the topic and everything, you are a nice bunch of people!
For K.Z. and Anne--Your not alone. There really are "sane" (quirky, compassionate) people out here. The noise and destruction of the jackals can be over-powering, no question.
Re-group, set boundaries, and ..... here's a hug!!!
I read Trust Me If You Dare yesterday, it was long overdue, I loved it. I want a third!mini-rant: I prefer the use of the real words, I mean: cock is much better than manhood, I prefer 'he grabbed his ass' to 'he grabbed his bum', I also prefer 'he squeezed -ouch- his balls' to 'he squeezed his orbs'. I don't know if my being a non-native speaker had de-sensitized me from the impact of certain words, but 'orbs', really? It always makes me think of the Sovereign's Orb of the Crown Jewels and my dirty mind plays the most stupid substitutions, I mean, can you think of the Sovereign's Nut? Sorry...
I am currently enjoying 18% Gray which is surprisingly funny (actually laugh out loud funny sometimes) in addition to being a sweet love story and an exciting sci-fi story. A great trifecta!
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..."
I fear I'm one of them. :-D
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..."
This is the key, isn't it? Learning from our past mistakes. Whether as individuals or as nations. Or as a species.
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..."
I think that's the right response. If we don't cry over such things, what would be worth our tears?
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True. It isn't. I haven't written much of anything in weeks.
All the friction and factionalism and feuding just grind me down. And the ever-changing..."
A couple of years ago we had this wonderful explosion of productivity and creativity -- and many, many of us were focused on building and improving the genre. Meaning the writing itself.
And many really excellent writers waded into the pool, and the stories did, overall, improve. There have been some really exciting developments for the genre. And this will happen again -- these things go in cycles.
But, and I guess it's inevitable in a newish sub-genre experiencing growing pains, the last months have seen a lot of tension and friction, a lot (not all) triggered by the fact that there's a glut of stories and writers. And many people feel desperate and frustrated and that boils over.
Promo efforts are more and more heavy-handed, and it feels like everyone is talking at the top of their lungs ALL THE TIME. Too many aspiring m/m supah-stars are more concerned with popping up and commenting at length in the right places then they are improving the quality of their work.
Too many people in this genre buy into the idea -- and sadly the idea has some validity -- that promotion can sell as many books as good writing.
Mod
I really enjoyed the Boystown books.
Hey, speaking of mystery and crime novels, Nicole Kimberling has the latest in her Bellingham series out today from Loose Id.
And she's started a Goodreads group. She said she sent me a link, but I fear she lied.
Everybody tries to hide from me!!!!
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..."
They are a nice bunch, aren't they? ;-)
Josh wrote: "Hey, speaking of mystery and crime novels, Nicole Kimberling has the latest in her Bellingham series out today from Loose Id. And she's started a Goodreads group. She said she sent me a link, but I fear she lied.
Everybody tries to hide from me!!!!"
Found her!
http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/6...
Mod
mini-rant: I prefer the use of the real words, I mean: cock is much better than manhood, I prefer 'he grab..."
I'm trying to think if there are genres where colorful euphemisms work better?
I think the most distracting thing is when a writer uses plain every day language until she or he gets to the sex scene and then suddenly they whip out the quill pen and start doing loopdeloops. :-D
And then immediately afterwards it's back to plain old Engllish.
Josh wrote: "I think the most distracting thing is when a writer uses plain every day language until she or he gets to the sex scene and then suddenly they whip out the quill pen and start doing loopdeloops. :-D"Is "quill pen" also an euphemism? :D
Josh wrote: "I fear I'm one of them. :-D "You've always been the voice of reason & compassion and we love you for that! :)
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..."
That made me laugh.
Mod
You've always been the voice of reason & compassion and we love you for that! :)"
Thank you, Cleon. I hope so. I try to be reasonable and compassionate.
Mod
I really enjoyed the Boystown books.
Hey, speaking..."
Here's Nik's new one!
Josh wrote: "Here's Nik's new one!"Another great Bellingham book. I loved "City of Subdued Excitement", all the characters and the atmosphere of the Farmers' Market (I was looking in the corners for cannibals).
Also I always find Nicole's books particularly interesting because she's the only author who sends me to the dictionary with every single one of her books. Copasetic??? Really?
Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Is "quill pen" also an euphemism? :D"I read a Harry Potter fan fic recently where a pen spurted ink and then wilted after some particularly purple prose. It made me laugh.
Josh wrote: "I'm certainly not advocating being rude to ANYONE on the web. I'm just saying, giving up what you love to do because everyone isn't appreciative is wrong. I think reviewers have to think more and m..."Okay, I'm about a year or so late but I finally had a light bulb moment. I always new I was missing something when this topic of "writer, "reviewer", "reader", "rudeness" came up. I'd read the words, scratch my head and know I was missing a nuance somewhere. I recognize this as "leadership dynamics" and "the power of influence".
I review books and so do a lot of others. When I misspeak it's rude. When a leader/influencer misspeaks it can be a nuclear bomb, even if we say exactly the same thing.
I mean this is obvious, but I was getting hooked up on the exact definitions. Two boulders coming together in the middle of the ocean is a collision. It could result in nothing, a wave, a tidal wave or a tsunami. They all start with a collision and we have different terms for the cause and effects based on the magnitude of each. My vocab doesn't have different words for a review and a review. Sorry, I know the difference. Language looses something for me in these impersonal snippets.
It can be said that the boulders aren't responsible for the damage of the wave. The resulting impact is no less real. It just IS.
I guess I just wanted to acknowledge that I finely got the meaning of the word rude.
I think I'll go back to reading my medical journals.........I understand that language better.
;D (hangs head sheepishly)
I've been through conflict, its aftermath. It's like the grief process. Hugs and Best wishes to you all!
I am reading For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway and I couldn't help to notice in a novel qualified as one of the masterpieces of English writing, and where the use of Spanish by the lead is somewhat relevant to the plot, there is a blatant spelling error of a word in Spanish. He spells aburrimiento as aburmiento. This novel has been published for over 70 years and yet the spelling error remains. I wonder if this is to preserve the authenticity of the work or if it has just been overlooked.
Mod
Is it possible the spelling could have changed? Gaelic, for example, has changed dramatically in 70 years.
Mod
Vivian wrote: "I am reading For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway and I couldn't help to notice in a novel qualified as one of the masterpieces of English writing, and where the use of Spanish by the lead ..."That book was the first "grown up" book I bought for myself with my own money :)
Josh wrote: "Vivian wrote: "I am reading For Whom the Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemingway and I couldn't help to notice in a novel qualified as one of the masterpieces of English writing, and where the use of Spani..."No, I assure you, it hasn't changed that radically (I looked it up) :D I believe the inconsistencies are from the editors or the printing press, not the author. The words are spelled right in some parts and misspelled in others (there are more mistakes as you get further in the book).
Anne wrote: "That book was the first "grown up" book I bought for myself with my own money :)"I think it is a fabulous book. I enjoy the way he translates the Spanish colloquial speech literally into English. Like the expression "menos mal" which literally means "less bad" but I would have translated as "that's good at least" or "thank goodness" or "thankfully".
It just shows how things are lost in translation and it shows the actual speech pattern of the Spaniards fighting alongside the lead in the war. I also like when he translates "no me molestes" as "don't molest me". Which is a literal translation but I would have translated it as "don't bother me" or "don't mess with me".
Vivian wrote: "Anne wrote: "That book was the first "grown up" book I bought for myself with my own money :)"I think it is a fabulous book. I enjoy the way he translates the Spanish colloquial speech literally..."
I remember the book made a great impact on me, I was 16 or something when I bought it and read it.
It interesting what you describe about the use of Spanish, I don't know if that is because Hemingway's Spanish wasn't good enough to get the nuances of the language or if he had a special reason for translating the phrases like that.
The few times I come across an English written work with a few Scandinavian words or sentences to give flavour, I find that more often than not the phrasing will be a little bit off compared to how a native speaking Scandinavian would talk. Usually it doesn't bother me unless it is glaringly wrong, sometimes though it will be rather stupid and laughable and then it will throw me out of the story a little bit.
I guess it irritates me that they wouldn't just do that extra research and make it right since they want to use a foreign language to create a certain emotion or ambience in the book. But they probably believe they have got it right already :)
Anne wrote: "Vivian wrote: "Anne wrote: "That book was the first "grown up" book I bought for myself with my own money :)"I think it is a fabulous book. I enjoy the way he translates the Spanish colloquial s..."
Several years ago I heard an author who grew up speaking Spanish at home talk about this. The copy editor gave her fits, because they kept trying to change her colloquial Spanish into formal Castilian Spanish. Totally not the same thing. Sometimes it's an issue of the author not doing their research. But it can also be about someone at the publisher thinking they know better.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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That's true. There are people who "discuss" everything at the top of their voices. :-D
And people who never raise their voice.
I think most of us fall somewhere in the middle.
And let's not forget all the hand gestures!