Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What else are you reading? (June 2010 - May 2013) *closed*
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Josh wrote: "Yes, I think that's the thing. As an author you're always aware you're not going to make everyone happy. The weird thing is to have readers express it to you directly -- with explicit directions on..."Let's hope most authors don't start following the so-called advice from readers, how else will we get those wonderful, original ideas and books that we love to read and get this feeling of a-ha, I haven't really thought about it like that before.
Josh wrote: "Yes, I think that's the thing. As an author you're always aware you're not going to make everyone happy. The weird thing is to have readers express it to you directly -- with explicit directions on..."And it seems that more & more we see clashes between authors & readers. :(
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Maybe so.
Well, there's always a danger for an author because you obviously want to write what people want to read (unless you're just writing for your own pleasure and an audience of one) but if you begin to cater to that...well, before long you'd be writing by committee vote.
At some point, probably quite quickly, the creative process would change drastically and irreversibly.
Anne wrote: "Calathea wrote: "Josh wrote: "And it's not like thinking aloud, it's like...this is what you needed to do.Almost as though writing (or is it reading?) was an interactive sport.
When did this..."
Ditto- what Ann and Calathea said. Somewhere on this "discussion" site is a link to a blog post talking about fanfic culture. I've been looking for the link and can't find it. (Some one out there know where it is?) It introduced my to this very interactive community btwn the writers and the readers. The writing is a dynamic process and they love it. It is a new culture for me, but I can definately see the attraction.
I think reading has always been interactive and people have always discussed the books they read. However, in the past it was in the privacy of their own living rooms and people were more polite. It must be hard on writers to see all this out in the open. I can't imagine what that must be like. {shudders}
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..."
Yes! Because love it or hate it, at least it's something that isn't of our own devising -- and that's part of what makes something relaxing. The lack of control. It's also what makes for tension and excitement. We don't know what's going to happen. We can't control it.
Maybe this is something about our modern culture in general. We want guarantees. We want insurance. We want control.
Perhaps this ties into a sense of entitlement?
On my Facebook, a friend was talking about who she hates those ads where the message is YOU DESERVE THIS. (Whatever the expensive, unnecessary luxury is.) And there's a lot of truth in that, I suspect. A lot of assuring us all that we deserve things that perhaps we haven't actually earned.
With that comes this false expectation of being able to control things that aren't actually within our control.
Maybe in its most trivial form, the results of someone else's creativity?
I'm just thinking aloud here.
Josh wrote: "Here's another thought. I notice the tenor of reader reviews is increasingly changing. Readers/Reviewers increasingly state what they wanted the author to do, where they think the story should have gone, their views on what should happen with the characters, the story they next want the writer to pen, etc. Heh. Arthur Conan Doyle was "convinced" by his fans to bring Sherlock Holmes back from the dead. I don't think this is anything new.
Josh wrote: "Readers/Reviewers increasingly state what they wanted the author to do, where they think the story should have gone, their views on what should happen with the characters, the story they next want the writer to pen, etc."Guilty as charged. I don't do it because I really want authors to change what they wrote, or because I really feel entitled to, but because as I'm writing down my thoughts about a book I've read (long aside: I wish there was a way to use a different term for readers' raves&rants than review because it's a term that gives a heavier connotation to these pieces of writing), I can't help pointing out the parts of the plot where I felt mislead, or bored, or exhilarated, and unfortunately I can only think it in terms of what-ifs. Sometimes I know that I complain about parts that, if done differently, would have avoided conflicts, lol, but I treat characters as people I meet in real life: I want them to be happy, I want to warn them about stupid decisions, I want to enter the book and make them behave :-)
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..."
That's true.
Of course that was a hugely popular series and character -- and Doyle had made such a drastic and dramatic choice.
He could have declined though. He chose money and popularity.
OR he regretted having killed Holmes. I could see dispatching a character in a fit of pique and then having second thoughts. :-D
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..."
Yes! It's like a team sport. It's totally interactive. Writers writing to "challenges."
There's certainly nothing wrong with it -- how could there be anything wrong with creative expression?
But it can also be disconcerting.
If you're a more traditional writer colliding with a modern, interactive fan base...there's going to be a clash of expectation.
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And on the bright side of all this, it's wonderful and even creatively stimulating to have direct contact with readers. It's a very new development. I think I had one or maybe two letters from readers in 20 years of writing. Now if a day goes by that I don't get a couple of fan letters, I think my career is over.
It's truly a whole new world.
But I get letters with outlines of stories readers want me to write. :-D I get people telling me how to bring Jake and Adrien back and the plot and the crisis, etc. I get people telling me what physical disability I need to explore. I get...well, a lot of really creative and enthusiastic suggestions.
And I'm quite sure it's not unique to me.
It signals a change in readers and readership.
Even though readers have influenced writers more or less for a long time, the tone is definitely different. In the past, readers wrote to authors, half begging, please please revive X, don't kill Y, give them happy ending, etc. Nowadays, it seems that the tone is "you write this or I won't buy your books again/I'll write bad review about you."
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Maybe that's it. Maybe there's less wishfulness and more expectation that the writer *will* write to command. Or else. There certainly seems to be a greater level of displeasure with writers who fail to meet the individual reader expectation.
At the same time the individual reader seems happily oblivious to the conflicting desires of other readers. It's like everyone wants their own holodeck fantasy as penned by the writer.
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Hmmm. This is interesting. I myself have only started to write reviews here in Goodreads... and always about the books I like. In fact, only about the books I enjoyed. I know it's probably stupid and I don't have a rational explanation for it, but it has something to do with the fact that I want to make a return service (is it the right term?) for the author in question for writing such a wonderful story and making me happy with it. Anyway, it sounds pretty naive now, when I talk/write about it... :)
Josh wrote: "The lack of control. It's also what makes for tension and excitement. We don't know what's going to happen. We can't control it."There's an interesting thought! Then maybe that's one of the reasons why we still read romance after hundreds of books. We know that a romance will have a HEA but there's still this little bit of uncertainty and we have to be sure that they will live happily ever after...
Emanuela wrote: "(long aside: I wish there was a way to use a different term for readers' raves&rants than review because it's a term that gives a heavier connotation to these pieces of writing)"
I feel the same way. For me a "review" is something thought-out and elaborate, not the few words about how I felt after having read a book. Maybe we can find an abbreviation or acronym?
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I don't think that's stupid at all! I think that's one of the most useful things readers can do for authors they like and wish to help -- tell someone else! Very simple. Very effective.
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Uh-oh. Sounds lot like my reviews... *grin*
Josh wrote: ".But it can also be disconcerting.If you're a more traditional writer colliding with a modern, interactive fan base...there's going to be a clash of expectation...."
So how does a writer filter through all this static? We have a brave new world with everyone shouting out their random,passionate, opinions.
I'm a little callous, I assume there are going to be a percent of rude, selfish whiners.
I guess I fall back to business techniques-- who is really buying? Who is my target audience? Am I reaching and entertaining THEM? The rest..{shrugs} eh, whatever.
I'm probably to practical for the creative mind. LOL
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Now days I think the term "review" is pretty loose. It seems to cover everything from a one star review with no comment to the thoughtful in depth pieces Dear Author does. And everything in between.
But they all serve a purpose. And they're all part of the changing book culture. Even those weird onestarcozIhateyouongeneralprinciples. It's part of the new book and reading culture.
I have no idea what any of it ultimately means. I just know things are changing rapidly all the time. I don't know if it's more confusing from the authorial standpoint. I know in five years I've had to scrabble to make sense of things I previously took for granted. Reviews being just one of those things.
Johanna wrote: "Calathea wrote: "For me a "review" is something thought-out and elaborate, not the few words about how I felt after having read a book."Uh-oh. Sounds lot like my reviews... *grin*"
Mine are no different! ;)
I found it was harder for me to write something the more I liked the book. It's near impossible (for me) to say something useful about a book I really, really, really loved (in the case of Irregulars, I agonized hours over the few sentences I finally wrote down and still find them insufficient).
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Uh-oh. Sounds lot like my reviews... *grin*..."
LOL! I feel you totally!!! :) By the way, I enjoyed Mind Fuck a lot! So thank you for your help with that! And I'm looking forward to see Toreth in action in the next The Adminstration books! How come I liked him so much, even though he was so not likable at all...? ;)
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I think it has something to do with the general attitude about demanding things to happen in a way one wishes. You mentioned earlier, how the advertisements encourage us to "deserve" things. I see this happening every day in school with some of the students and their parents. They demand a lot of things, but are not ready to make an effort themselves.
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.."
Good question!
It seems clear to me that there's no going back. Barring nuclear holocaust I don't see a publishing future where writers have less access to readers (and vice versa).
Is it possible to remove yourself from the sphere of readers? Sure. Up to a point. But sales in this brave new world do seem to rely on a certain amount of interaction and accessibility. Even the big names get out there in some form or the other.
Plus, once you get a taste of intense reader interaction, I think it's hard to let go. I mean, that's why authors continue to read reviews. They want confirmation that someone is reading their work; they crave that contact, even if the end result is to make them want to throttle the reviewer.
Could I pull the plug on all my various social media outlets? I dream about it now and then -- because it is tiring and time-consuming and it does affect the work (no matter how stringent I try to be, of course this contact affects the work!) but the truth is it's also feeding something in me. I'm certainly getting something positive and affirming out of it.
Even if I could let go of it -- should I?
And outside of this very small pond, I am a very tiny fish. How does someone like JK Rowling deal with the pressure of reader interaction?
The interaction with fans/followers is not unique to writers and publishing, but I think the ability of fans and followers to affect the work probably is. Like...I don't think fans of painters particularly try and influence the work. Do listeners tell Lifehouse what to sing about next? Do Angelina Jolie's fans urge her to take certain roles?
I think there's something different happening in literature and publishing. I have no idea what it ultimately means.
Johanna wrote: "Josh wrote: "I have no idea what any of it ultimately means. I just know things are changing rapidly all the time. I don't know if it's more confusing from the authorial standpoint. I know in five ..."In general I find that people think they are allowed to be much more rude and yes, demanding, when expressing themselves on the internet. In a room with people most of us has at least a little sense of decorum, when you sat down at your desk and penned a letter to your favorite author, you worked hard to make it readable and nice. Sitting at home on the computer writing under a nickname you can do whatever you please, and for some people, that means being rude and offensive.
It is definitely a world in flux, in general, not only in the interaction between readers and authors.
Fun but scary, like all changes are :)
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Yes, definitely this.
Johanna wrote: "Anne wrote: "In general I find that people think they are allowed to be much more rude and yes, demanding, when expressing themselves on the internet."Yes, definitely this."
I blame all the self-help books/TV preachers/motivators that promote this kind of belief to the extreme.
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I've always thought that that must be a full-time job for an author to maintain all this interaction in various sites! I know I wouldn't manage it. Not that I'm not grateful for it or anything... :) And if you'd like to take a little sabbatical from us here, you know, we would understand that completely. :) Anyway, I'm glad to hear that the empowerment works both ways and you are hooked too by the positive aspect of the interaction... ;)
Johanna wrote: "Josh wrote: "Could I pull the plug on all my various social media outlets? I dream about it now and then -- because it is tiring and time-consuming and it does affect the work (no matter how string..."I guess the big fishes in the big ponds have minions doing a lot of the interaction on their behalf, otherwise they wouldnt get anything done. Isn't it the great whales that have these tiny little fish swimming around them, eating barnacles off their skin and stuff?
Sorry, I sort of got carried away with the fish analogy. :)
Btw, I enjoy this little pond immensely!
Johanna wrote: "Anne wrote: "In general I find that people think they are allowed to be much more rude and yes, demanding, when expressing themselves on the internet."Yes, definitely this."
I think that sometimes just putting a in-my-opinion somewhere could help.
Josh wrote: "Do Angelina Jolie's fans urge her to take certain roles? ..."Kind of... I mean she's made gazillions playing the skrawny, buff action hero/character. She has done multiple roles in this type cast. Now, she can go out and produce/direct the kind of movies she's more interested in. Then she can come back and make more moolah as the sexy??? action character that her fan base loves.
So making $$ as an artist doesn't always intersect with an artist's passion. If they're lucky they can find a way to do both at the same time. Or, like AJL, find a money making niche that can finance the freedom to pursue the other.
But with writting Good stuff, it always has that pinpoint accuracy of humanity in it. I can see that observing readers' interaction with it would be an integral componant to the journey.
Reading through some of these comments made me think about Stephen King's Misery; I think that level of obsession may still exist, but would also be bled off to an extent through social media. And a missing author would be a lot more obvious these days...no posts for a couple of days, something must be wrong! :)
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Now there's an interesting point.
Is it something we can track..."
That's exactly what I was thinking. People are used to being able to have control over what they watch and read.
I know I've been known to say "It needed more horror. I wasn't scared enough." But I also recognize that that's a personal taste, and not everyone, including the author views the story the same way I do.
Finished Kamikaze Boys yesterday and promised Johanna to tell what I think about the book.I liked it a lot, it describes two lonely boys who come together and then become dynamite :). They really were Kamikaze boys! The writing was very good, a little rare to this genre that in my opinion often is full of angst and drama, the emotions were there but sort of under the surface, you have to dig a little to get there. I haven't really decided whether I enjoyed the book more because of it, or if I find it annoying. It had me working on the story after I finished, which probably means that the author managed to get to me despite the downplayed emotions.
I loved the down to earth humour as well.
There is a couple of situations with hospitals and jails that had me wondering. If the descriptions of what happened are true, and there is no reason not to believe that, it is rather shocking. If someone can tell me how to add the spoiler thingy, I can describe a little better what I mean.
I definitely recommend the book.
Btw, the guys are gay, but they are not worrying about that in the least, which is refreshing. There are a few love scenes, but they also are downplayed.
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That's a lot like JCP's newsletter novels. At the end of each section that gets printed in the newsletter she has a poll for readers to decide what happens next. Kinda like a choose your own adventure, but it's chosen by a vote of all the readers so what you want to happen might not happen. It's actually a lot of fun. But I wouldn't want all my books written like that. It would quickly lose everything it's got going for it.
Anne wrote: "Finished Kamikaze Boys yesterday and promised Johanna to tell what I think about the book.I liked it a lot, it describes two lonely boys who come together and then become dynamite..."
Oh, I have that one too, Anne. But it's been slow-going for me. Not sure why.
K.Z. wrote: "Anne wrote: "Finished Kamikaze Boys yesterday and promised Johanna to tell what I think about the book.I liked it a lot, it describes two lonely boys who come together and then bec..."
It is a strange book in the way the things these boys do and what happen to them are rather extreme, but told in a way that you don't get how extreme it really is until afterwards, which as I said, I am not sure I found refreshing or annoying. So I can see why you might find it slow going :)
I again ran into an instance of an older book being considerably cheaper as a used paperback than a Kindle edition. Got Fritz Leiber's Dark Ladies: Conjure Wife/Our Lady of Darkness for $3.00 less (even with shipping) than what one of the novellas alone would've cost in e-book format. That's crazy.
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You mean there's a fine line between learning to assert yourself and becoming overbearing?
I think that's true. Tact is not easy, for one thing. It requires self-restraint, and self-restraint is sort of out of fashion ever since the days of Let it All Hang Out.
Not only is it easier to be rude, there are those who insist that being rude is more honest. More real.
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To do it for a single, special project would be fun, yes. Fun for readers and challenging for JCP.
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I liked it a lot, it describes two lonely boys who come together and then become dynamite..."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts about Kamikaze Boys. I'm definitely going to add it in my TBR list. It sounds like Jay Bell manages to raise mixed feelings in not only yours truly, but other people too. And well, that isn't entirely bad thing. Like you said, at least that way the book keeps you occupied with the story even when you've already finished it. And humor is always a plus. :) The down to earth humor was one thing I really enjoyed in Something Like Summer. And although the ending in that one left me a bit unsatisfied, it sure gave me a lot to think and talk about! :)
I am reading Split right now. A beautifully told story that is going back and forth between the past and the present. A difficult technique I would guess and my feeling is that she doesn't really manage it quite throughout. Part of the book is a diary written by an eleven year old boy, read by the man many years after he wrote it, but often those parts end up being a description of what he experiences written in a way not possibly done by a boy this age, and not like it is written in a diary either. It could be that it is planned like that, sort of seguing into a description of the events from the starting point of the diary, I don't know. The story in itself is very engaging and the main carachter very endearing so I definitely like the book.
Cleon wrote: "Nowadays, it seems that the tone is "you write this or I won't buy your books again/I'll write bad review about you.""Yikes! Readers Behaving Badly.
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Yikes! Readers Behaving Badly."
I think we're all figuring out this brave new world. Sometimes I feel like everything I ever knew about publishing has changed forever.
A feeling reinforced by catching up on three months worth of Publisher's Weekly.
Just started
and enjoying it very much so far. Harper Fox is one of my favourites in this genre, she has her own very unique style I believe. This book is set in the Scottish countryside, and I feel the sense of the place and the landscape very keenly. It has some echoes of
in the description of the farm and the farmhouse even if the rest of the story and the people in it are different.
Anne wrote: "Just started and enjoying it very much so far. Harper Fox is one of my favourites in this genre, she has her own very unique style I believe. This book is set in th..."And don't forget the Aga! ;-) I didn't think I'd encounter one again in such short time... or ever. Until Larton Chronicles I didn't even know what it was. :-D
Calathea, you should go more often on holiday in England/Scotland! Plenty of Agas there.I'm pleased to see we are all reading the same book. That is I've broken my ''no-new-books'' Lent resolution, I admit ;-). But I didn't break the other one, so I did switch off the computer at midnight. I might try to stick to healthier reading-times even after Lent.
Calathea wrote: "Anne wrote: "Just started and enjoying it very much so far. Harper Fox is one of my favourites in this genre, she has her own very unique style I believe. This book..."They do seem to have a special relationship with their Agas, don't they? :)
Antonella wrote: "Calathea, you should go more often on holiday in England/Scotland! Plenty of Agas there.I'm pleased to see we are all reading the same book. That is I've broken my ''no-new-books'' Lent resolutio..."
I am not very familiar with the concept of Lent and denying oneself things because of it (non-Catholic, non-religious Norwegian you know), but I hope this doesn't mean you are going to Hell now .... ;)
Maybe we all should compare notes later on this book? That would be fun.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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THAT'S a definite shift.