Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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What else are you reading? (June 2010 - May 2013) *closed*
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I'm never the life of the party, but even those I enjoy get to be tiring after awhile.
Jordan wrote: "I have the second book in print, but I haven't started to read them yet. I love chance. He's such an interesting character, I'm dying to write fanfic about him. lol. Mysterious ?atch Makers, gotta love them... but I want to know more about Chance. Why does he do the things he does? Is there an SO for him? Or does he need his own MMM? "Keep reading....
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Can someone please explain Pretty Ugly to me? I keep going back and forth on what I think happened (or is going to happen).
Charming wrote: "Can someone please explain Pretty Ugly to me? I keep going back and forth on what I think happened (or is going to happen)."(view spoiler)
Has anyone read 'Exiled to Iowa. Send Help. And Couture'?It's a very sweet, and wonderfully written, coming of age story.
(Thought I'd do my bit to get this thread back on the rails)
Becky wrote: "Charming wrote: "Can someone please explain Pretty Ugly to me? I keep going back and forth on what I think happened (or is going to happen)."[spoilers removed]"
Thanks so much. I like that interpretation.
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[spoilers removed]"
Funny, I just finished that story this morning. Your thoughts are pretty much what I got out of it too. Though I think what he put on the mirror at the end had something to do with a happy ending, like he was finally realizing some things for himself. It was vague, but good.
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All the more so because when we started that series there really wasn't anything like it in m/m romance. She really did break ground with it.
I've not long finished 'Thinking Straight' by Robin Reardon and I find myself deeply conflicted.It's about a 16-year-old kid who comes out to his parents and promptly gets shipped off to one of those Christian re-education facilities with a shockingly high suicide rate for gay teens.
It's a well written book with some good characterisation and a nice zippy plot.
However...I had problems with the book and I'm not sure if it's just me. I'm pretty much agnostic...the UK is a deeply secular society and organised religion is pretty much completely divorced from my life and my thoughts and always has been. I would be tempted to say I'm an atheist, but to be honest, even that amount of belief...or non belief as the case may be...seems far too alien to my way of thinking. I mean, we don't know, we can't ever know...so what's the point thinking about it?
I guess the central importance of religion in American society has always been one of the things which has always left me scratching my head. I just don't get it.
Anyway, back to the book. The plot follows the main character's increasing acceptance of his sexuality and how he manages to not only reconcile this with his faith, but how it actually deepens it. In fact his entire approach to his newfound comfort with his identity takes place within his biblical interpretation and Christian approach to every aspect of his life.
Bear in mind that this all takes place whilst he is inside this re-education facility that in any other Western country would be shut down immediately and every employee disbarred from practicing psychology and slapped with restraining orders not to approach anyone under 18.
Of course there's a happy ending. In fact the main character - even when his parents agree to let him come back home for the rest of the summer so he can be with his boyfriend - agrees to stay there and help other gay teens who have been sent there.
I guess I found the message and theme of this book very disturbing. Especially as it seemed aimed at young people.
Christopher wrote: "I've not long finished 'Thinking Straight' by Robin Reardon and I find myself deeply conflicted.It's about a 16-year-old kid who comes out to his parents and promptly gets shipped off to one of t..."
I don't think there are any happy endings at those places. And it's very hard to believe that the staff of a place like that would allow him to stay and "help," unless he was doing so while claiming to be "cured." Which it doesn't sound like he would be willing to do...so not very realistic, that.
Christopher wrote: "I've not long finished 'Thinking Straight' by Robin Reardon and I find myself deeply conflicted.It's about a 16-year-old kid who comes out to his parents and promptly gets shipped off to one of t..."
I don't catch exactly what's disturbing for you. The fact that for some people religion is quite central? This is just a fact.
I would be tempted to say I'm an atheist, but to be honest, even that amount of belief...or non belief as the case may be...seems far too alien to my way of thinking.
I like your way of thinking. It's good for you and you don't go around preaching.
I've got friends from very different backgrounds, but lately some hardliner atheists irritate me more then religious people, who never attempted to convert me.
Antonella wrote: "I've got friends from very different backgrounds, but lately some hardliner atheists irritate me more then religious people, who never attempted to convert me. "Hard line anything is annoying. lol.
Christopher, as an American who has lived in Europe for 20 years (3 of them in the UK) and has just returned from 2 months over there, I totally understand your bafflement. If you were to spend a few weeks in a part of the country where you find Christian-themed paperback novels in the supermarket, you would soon realise that that type of book is not outlandish. Religion seems all-pervasive there when you're new to the place -- like the way I felt when I first moved to London and it was cloudy every day for the first two weeks (in June!). You wonder how people can stand living like that. ;-D That kind of book has its place, but it's not in Britain (or anywhere in western Europe).
Those places are terrifying! I'm with Rachel, it's hard to imagine a happy ending there and I do think that anyone who works at one should have their license pulled.
Antonella wrote: "I don't catch exactly what's disturbing for you. The fact that for some people religion is quite central? This is just a fact."It wasn't that, it was more that the character's increasing comfort with identity was presented as being entirely consistent with the fundamentalist approach to Christianity that seems unique to the bible belt in the US.
If this was a book aimed at teenagers who might be going through these issues, then I think it would have been more helpful to present other strands of Christianity or other types of belief as being more...psychologically healthy for any gay person. I mean there are quite a few Christian sects which are very supportive of gay people...unitarianism for example. But Southern Baptist Fundamentalism isn't one of them.
Kim wrote: "Christopher, as an American who has lived in Europe for 20 years (3 of them in the UK) and has just returned from 2 months over there, I totally understand your bafflement. If you were to spend a f..."Yeah. We visited family friends in Florida last summer and had lunch with them and their pastor.
All very nice people, but...I don't know.
I hadn't noticed until then how I react when confronted with being expected to discuss religious belief...my own and others in a social situation. (Rather than having an intellectual debate as I guess we're having here)
I guess I found it rude. The same way as if I was expected to discuss the details of my digestive system or explain how I approach intimate relationships. Why on earth should these people expect me to discuss belief and religion?
We occasionally get Mormon missionaries in the UK, often from the US, and I have the same problem. I mean...how incredibly offensive to knock on my door and discuss something like that!
Hmmm...just thought I'd add I didn't mean any of this to come off as the least bit Anti-American!!I love Americans. Really! I'm descended from mine owners in Pennsylvania so I could have been one! ;-)
Christopher wrote: "Kim wrote: "Christopher, as an American who has lived in Europe for 20 years (3 of them in the UK) and has just returned from 2 months over there, I totally understand your bafflement. If you were ..."That's something I don't get about Americans. We're totally religious nuts here (except for few rebels like me), but expecting a stranger to discuss religious belief with other people, even with the same religious belief is considered rude too. Even in family, we don't discuss our religious belief, if we have the same religion, we'll talk about something mundane like is the pastor funny or not, things like that.
Cleon wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Kim wrote: "Christopher, as an American who has lived in Europe for 20 years (3 of them in the UK) and has just returned from 2 months over there, I totally understand your baff..."Actually, I think most sensible Americans consider it rude too. But the evangelicals put the social graces away when they think there's someone to be "saved."
Rachel wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Kim wrote: "Christopher, as an American who has lived in Europe for 20 years (3 of them in the UK) and has just returned from 2 months over there, I totally unders..."I know, what I meant was evangelicals. Most evangelicals don't do that to here. But again Christianity is a minority here so maybe that makes them more sensible.
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..."
Yes, the rules of engagement imprinted on me at an early age were never discuss religion, politics, or sex with strangers.
Of course the internet changes that up a little, doesn't it?
Kim wrote: "Christopher, as an American who has lived in Europe for 20 years (3 of them in the UK) and has just returned from 2 months over there, I totally understand your bafflement. If you were to spend a f..."I spend a couple of weeks this fall driving in the southern states of the US (Georgia, Missisippi, Alabama and a couple more) and one of the things I noticed was the religious books everywhere, even in gas stations, and also signs in shops about God and Jesus. Very foreign and strange to a secular Norwegian. But the people were very sweet and polite - we did not discuss religion or politics (which is something else I have a hard time understanding,looking at the Republican president candidate process - won't go farther into that...)
But I like Americans and not to mention American literature very much!
Christopher wrote: "It wasn't that, it was more that the character's increasing comfort with identity was presented as being entirely consistent with the fundamentalist approach to Christianity that seems unique to the bible belt in the US."Uh, I see... Thank you for explaining.
BTW I was so mad after Proposition 8 passed that I approached the first two Mormons I saw and started to attack the involvement of their church in such matters. They were visibly relieved when our train arrived at the station ;-).
Josh wrote: "Yes, the rules of engagement imprinted on me at an early age were never discuss religion, politics, or sex with strangers. ."Ah, but it all depends on your family culture, right? I grew up in a political family, it would be easier not to breathe than to avoid political discussion. I suspect the same kind of logic holds for evangelicals and religion.
Of course, my family also taught me never to mention sex, ever, under any circumstances, not even while having it, and look at me now. So those cultural rules don't always take.
I generally don't talk about faith or my beliefs unless someone else brings it up or I'm talking with a few people from my church (we enjoy picking at each other's positions, lol). Politics...I won't even tell anyone who I voted or plan to vote for. I'll talk issues, but I never talk candidates. Too divisive. Also, any time dh knows who I'm voting for, he's made a point of voting for the opponent, regardless of each candidate's position, to cancel my vote out. No joke. The man is demented.
I come from a very religious background, and I've witnessed scintillating discussions on topics such as "the WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) movement is wrongheaded. It should be What Would Jesus Have Me Do?" You don't want to bring up Joel Osteen (head of a mega church and author of a handful of Christian Lite books) around any of my family. Or Catholics. And I'd suggest avoiding the subject of mega churches if you can. One half of the family is all for them, and the other half hates them.But that's just among the family. They don't talk religion around others unless specifically invited to do so, and then it's a soft sell. They may privately judge the hell out of you for your immoral ways, but they won't tell you to your face. They do have some manners. Which is the only reason my hippy, liberal, free love, gay marriage supporting self has managed to survive among them for so long!
The thing about the U.S. is that it is a country of 300 million people and very distinct cultural divisions. The south, in particular, is very different from the rest of the country. I live in a western college town, and would just as weirded out by lunch with the vocal evangelicals as most Europeans. I imagine Josh (in west L.A) would say the same. But Kari can give us a completely point of view.Everyone I know talks about politics, though.
Yup. I'm in a weird area, though. The Mason Dixon line divides two subcultures and IMO, you see an odd blending of the two here. I get away with stuff here that I would never get away with back home, anyway.
Anne wrote: "I spend a couple of weeks this fall driving in the southern states of the US (Georgia, Missisippi, Alabama and a couple more) and one of the things I noticed was the religious books everywhere, even in gas stations, and also signs in shops about God and Jesus. Very foreign and strange to a secular Norwegian. But the people were very sweet and polite - we did not discuss religion or politics (which is something else I have a hard time understanding,looking at the Republican president candidate process - won't go farther into that...)But I like Americans and not to mention American literature very much!"
Yes, I've been following the GOP primaries quite closely with a fair amount of horror and bemusement. I mean...the q & a session where the audience booed the gay soldier in Iraq? Santorum's google problem (gotta love Dan Savage!)? Crazy Eyes Bachman and her ex-gay husband?
You couldn't make this stuff up! No one would believe it!
Kari wrote: "Yup. I'm in a weird area, though. The Mason Dixon line divides two subcultures and IMO, you see an odd blending of the two here. I get away with stuff here that I would never get away with back hom..."I know what the Mason Dixon line is, but what two sub-cultures do you mean?
Josh wrote: "Yes, the rules of engagement imprinted on me at an early age were never discuss religion, politics, or sex with strangers."Does that mean you get real explicit when discussing sex with non strangers? :-)
Christopher wrote: "I know what the Mason Dixon line is, but what two sub-cultures do you mean?"The Northeast and the South.
Christopher wrote: "Santorum's google problem (gotta love Dan Savage!)"I became a fan of Savage after finding out about that story! Beyond awesome! There a poetic justice in that which reminds me of the punishments in Dante's Inferno.
As for some declarations of possible US presidential candidates, it's definitely more horror than amusement...
Kari wrote: "The Northeast and the South."
Ah right. Like most of the rest of the world, I suppose my pre-conceptions of US sub-cultures are mostly formed through the mass media and occasional vacations. And I admit to mostly flying over the fly-over states! ;-)
I suppose there's only so much you can learn from the US by avid observation of regional sub-culture as interpreted by Legally Blonde and trips to Disneyland.
I do like red-velvet cake though. That's Southern isn't it? And the Southern drawl does make me go week at the knees!
Antonella wrote: "I became a fan of Savage after finding out about that story! Beyond awesome! There a poetic justice in that which reminds me..."
He's great isn't he? I've read through the archive of his columns and they're fantastic.
At least you guys won't have to suffer through a Palin candidacy.
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Ah, but it all depends on your family culture, right? I g..."
True. Now INSIDE the family circle it's like a never-ending round of weekend political debate. Maybe that's one reason why we had to curb ourselves in public. We didn't know how to casually discuss...anything.
Sex on other hand was never discussed. In fact, bodily functions of any kind were never discussed. I think my mom was still insisting I arrived by stork when I left for college.
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Does that mean you get real explicit when discussing sex wi..."
Well...judging by my life's work, yes! :-D
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I read something once, I think it was a true story, where a woman was home alone, and she got a knock on her door. It was Mormons wanting to talk church with her. She said she was busy, but asked if they could come back the next afternoon at 3pm for some tea. They said sure. She didn't think they would come. Later that day, another church group came, and again, she said she was busy. Forgetting about the Mormons, she asked if they could come back the next afternoon at 3pm for tea. They said sure.
Of course, both groups showed up, and were pissed that the other group was there. She was horrified, but gladly served them tea, sat back, and listened to them debate against each other. She didn't have to do a single thing but serve them tea.
Granted, I'd never do that. If I don't know the person on the other side of the door, and I'm not expecting anyone, I just don't answer. But still, it's a great story. I just don't get why people have to go around posturing and telling the world how much better they and their religion is.
Reminds me of that church in Kansas. Forgotten the name... again. But I'm sure someone will remind me. They're sick people, and that ain't no joke. Teaching your three-year-old to hate people because they're gay, or black, or even just a simple soldier? Teaching them to swear and tell people they're going to hell? ugh.
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It's about a 16-year-old kid who comes out to his parents and promptly gets shipped off to one of t..."
Isn't he self-pubbed? I was going to buy a bunch of his books for the library where I work, until I found that out. Not that that's a bad thing, but some of the reviews were a little mixed, and I wasn't sure if I should invest in his work or not. I bought one book to test out. If I like it, if the kids like it, maybe I'll get some more.
It also seems like his series is never-ending, which also makes me wonder just a little bit. Just a little though. For sure, I used to read books as a young teen in series that are still being written today 50 books later. It's odd though. I much prefer there to be an end somewhere in sight. But maybe that's just me. I dunno.
But yeah, I can see what you mean about being conflicted about it. There's no room in southern christian churches for being gay, so those places can't have happy endings. He must just be hopeful? If I were the writer, I'd burn the place down, (after getting everyone out first, of course) and that would be the happy ending. How does one "help" teens who've been sent there? If he's gay, and he's accepted it and open about it, but the center is set on making gay kids straight, how on earth does he get around that? Secretly stay gay, play openly straight, and sneek kids out the back door?
It also seems odd that his parents, after sending him off to get "fixed" and turned straight, would want him back especially if they know he's going to be spending time with his boyfriend. Where did their epiphany come from?
Of course, I haven't read it yet, but from what you've said, it seems like there are a lot of holes in it, and I'm just confuzzled.
Jordan wrote: "Christopher wrote: "I've not long finished 'Thinking Straight' by Robin ROf course, I haven't read it yet, but from what you've said, it seems like there are a lot of holes in it, and I'm just confuzzled. "I shall attempt to unconfuzzle you. ;-)
I didn't want to give away too much of the ending, so SPOILER alert.
The resolution is that the kid ends up uncovering a murderer (one of the staff members) and finds out that his freaky counselor (whose methods would have her disbarred from any reputable professional association) has recently had an epiphany on the whole gay issue after her son came out and ran away to San Francisco. She ends up assuming the directorship of the facility and asking him to stay, explaining that she's still wonderfully enthusiastic about the whole Christian indoctrination thing on the whole, but has no problem with the gays.
Josh wrote: "Christopher wrote: "Josh wrote: "Yes, the rules of engagement imprinted on me at an early age were never discuss religion, politics, or sex with strangers."Does that mean you get real explicit wh..."
Wait, are we talking about you talking about sex with strangers or you talking about sex, with strangers?
;-)
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Josh wrote: "Sex on other hand was never discussed. In fact, bodily functions of any kind were never discussed. I think my mom was still insisting I arrived by stork when I left for college. "Yeah...sex has only reared its head twice with my mother.
...wait...that came out wrong...you know what I mean!
The first time when I was twelve and I got given one of the birds and the bees books that explained everything from menstruation (eurghh! I think reading that chapter definitely had an effect on me!) to cunnilingus (actually I think that chapter was worse).
The second time was when I came out at 17, which was even more mortifying.
It's a wonder I'm as well-adjusted as I am really. ;-)
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I don't know why I never believed in the stork, because I don't remember having that conversation with her until I was around 12. And yeah, reading about menstruation... UGH!!!
When I was 6, I thought I knew how children were born: you get married and more or less after a year you get a child. It was based on my own statistics. I still remember my parents laughing their ass off. How rude! They didn't tell me the truth though.
When I was a kid, I asked my father what f*ck meant. He said he didn't know. I asked my mom, she gave me a long, long, very technical explanation after which I proved what a good student I was by telling her she'd better explain it to dad since he'd never heard of the stuff.
Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "When I was 6, I thought I knew how children were born: you get married and more or less after a year you get a child. It was based on my own statistics. I still remember my parents laughing their a..."I must have been told that the dad planted a seed in the mum's stomach because I can remember walking home from school when I was around seven and wondering how he did that. I did not ask my parents though, at least I can't remember they giving me a good answer. I do know now, by the way ;)
I actually asked my three year old if he wanted a brother or sister, and he said; how shall we do that, then? I told him to leave it to his parents.
Christopher wrote: "Wait, are we talking about you talking about sex with strangers or you talking about sex, with strangers?"Coffee up the nose! And, really, there's no reason those two concepts can't be combined.
Punctuation is everything.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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I have the second book in print, but I haven't started to read them yet. I love chance. He's such an interesting character, I'm dying to write fanfic about him. lol. Mysterious ?atch Makers, gotta love them... but I want to know more about Chance. Why does he do the things he does? Is there an SO for him? Or does he need his own MMM?
HA! And do note, I didn't put slashes between those Ms, which makes MMM mean something different from M/M/M. Or maybe I should have written it as M.M.M.? Ah well, you know my meaning.