Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Writing Questions for Josh
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Dev
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Jun 12, 2013 07:29PM
I agree, the format is less important than the content (and format requirements are different with different publishers). When I write my synopses I try to tell the story like I might tell a story at a dinner party. That helps me keep the unimportant details to a minimum and focus on the actual story part. So far that's worked pretty well for me.
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It's my fondest wish that there were professional synopsis and blurb writers. I'd rather do edits for days on end than compose those summaries. Man, I hate them! (But I like your advice, Dev. It makes sense.)
I don't think any of us like writing synopsis. In a long novel try going to each chapter, write a one or two line summary of the chapter and then base the synposis around this. Be sure to show the conflict and resolution. Must show the resolution, don't try to tease the publisher into reading your manuscript by leaving them hanging. The hard part is how much of your style of writing you put into the synopsis. I've read conflicting info from publishers, some seem to want to get a feel of your writing style from it, others want 'just the facts ma'am'. But once you have the basics down (in the right order) you can embellish as you see fit--or trim depending on publisher length.
In summary we all agree synopsis suck but are a necessary evil.
Thanks for the synopsis advice! And thanks for helping me shift my focus from format to content. :-) When I tried to write my synopsis I felt like I was writing a grade school book report, which makes me think it definitely needs some work :-D
So I managed to pare down my synopsis from 8 pages to 6 pages to 3 (double spaced). I think I'm done, but I get itchy fingers and start tweaking. I keep thinking of things I want to change in my story - and we're talking ONE word. I'm just a wee bit obsessive. :-)
Josh wrote: "Rob wrote: "I had just finished reading Dangerous Ground and Old Poison when I started Man Oh Man. Seeing how those two developed for you was brilliant. Just wanted to say a quick thank you for tha..."Josh. Love Taylor and Will. Book 5 will be out in Oct. Hope you have plan for more book 6. May be next year? Please!!!
Mr. Lanyon I have a question for you. The majority of your works had the main character paired up with a LEO or ex-LEO. Is this drawn from your life? As in, is your SO a LEO or former LEO? Or because it was well suited to the style of mystery you excelled at? Or perhaps... Are you a badge bunny? :)
K.Z. wrote: "It's my fondest wish that there were professional synopsis and blurb writers. I'd rather do edits for days on end than compose those summaries. Man, I hate them! (But I like your advice, Dev. It ma..."Amen! I'd love someone to write them for me :)
Dev wrote: "I agree, the format is less important than the content (and format requirements are different with different publishers). When I write my synopses I try to tell the story like I might tell a story ..."Last time I wrote one, I started with a list of things that happened in the scenes/chapters, and then started paring them down into something coherent... loooong process (I prefer writing the story)
*sigh*
Mod
I'm very glad you enjoy the series! And yes, I do hope to do more Will and Taylor stories, but we have to see where we are after Kick Start.
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Definitely not a badge bunny. No, I'll just say I have a unusually high percentage of LE in my family. In fact, my family is pretty evenly divided between creative types and military or LE types. Apparently there is no middle ground with us.
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Our family is mostly military.
Josh,This is more of a general curiousity... I noticed that Amazon has introduced "Kindle Serials"... What are you thoughts on this?
As a reader, I very much enjoy reading novel based series in general. However, once finished with the last novel in the series you have to keep up to date with the authors as to when the next book in that series is released... (and you, Mr. Lanyon, are an exception to the rule, not all authors communicate with their readers as exceptionally as you do!). So, the thought of "subscribing" to a series (be it shorter, novella, or more chapter driven), such that the next book is automatically delivered is very appealing to some readers such as myself.
thoughts?
Mod
This is more of a general curiousity... I noticed that Amazon has introduced "Kindle Serials"... What are you thoughts on this?
As a reader, I very much enjoy reading novel based serie..."
Hmm. Interesting question, Curt.
Are the serials like chapters in a novel or are they run like complete books in a series?
Being notified that the next book in a series is available is a very useful tool.
Having readers paying for individual chapters of a single story seems like it might be both expensive and irritating for readers. I know Blind Eye Books did it successfully with the Rifter -- you could buy the entire novel up front (which was less expensive than purchasing chapters individually) or you could just pay for chapters as you read.
I think Jordan Castillo Price has also had some luck with this. JCP is always very innovative.
I was sort of experimenting with this serial idea with the first Haunted Heart story. Though the novella is complete in itself, it's still only one part of a four part series. I released each chapter separately and for free. Now I'm doing the edits so that I can release and charge for the entire story.
It's going to be interesting to see whether the story does as well as it would have had I simply waited to release it as the finished product.
So I guess what I'm saying is...I find the idea intriguing enough to experiment with, but I'm not convinced as to how successful it is. I know waiting for chapters of Rifter was TORTURE. (And I was getting chapters way in advance of most readers!) But then again, it's not really so different from having to wait for the next book in a series you love.
I'd be interested to hear thoughts from other readers.
Mod
Our family is mostly military."
I think maybe it's not that the division is so unusual in my family, but that the arts were so highly regarded and encouraged by the non-artistic members? My uncle (the former sheriff who passed away a couple of years ago) originally trained to be a monk. He was a talented sculptor and he worked with charcoals. That's a pretty unusual mix. One of his sons is a musician and the other is a marine. And so it goes through the entire family.
Given how uneducated my grandparents were, that reverence for the ability to sing or write or paint seems an unusual thing (or maybe that's my own bias -- maybe it isn't at all unusual).
Josh wrote: "Curt wrote: "Josh,This is more of a general curiousity... I noticed that Amazon has introduced "Kindle Serials"... What are you thoughts on this?
As a reader, I very much enjoy reading nove..."
I'm not a fan of serials in books. It worked for me with The Haunted Heart because you published the chapters fast. There was only a short strech of time between the chapters. So there wasn't a long wait.
With JCP's Turbulence Collection the timespan was too long for me (with the consequence that I stopped reading after installment 5 or 6). After a month or so of wait I just don't have everything present in my mind anymore to get back into the story.
It's a whole different thing with "real" series when each book is an individual finished story but the whole has some arc that spans all the books. In this case I can wait (more or less patiently) for years for the next installment. ;-)
Mod
JCP used to do 1-3 chapters free per newsletter she sent out once a month. It was an agonizing wait, but worth it as readers got to vote on what would happen next. Plus, the stories were free until they were finished, then they got edited and published as a whole novel.
I wouldn't make readers pay for each individual chapter. But I like the way JCP did it. At the end you could pay for the novel if you wanted, which I did with her works. They were worth the price.
For myself, I keep thinking I should post a free novel on my website chapter by chapter. I see a lot of other authors doing it at the start of their careers and those stories seem to be very popular. At least among the people I know. I'm thinking of stories like The Violet and the Tom, Mind Fuck (which is a whole novel followed by shorts and other novels mixed in), and Special Forces, among others.
I'm not sure how Amazon would get into that though. If it's a published series, sure, let me know when the next installment is ready for purchase. Otherwise? I'm not sure how it would work out.
It would be cool if there was a website that writers and readers could sign up with so that readers could be notified of a new free chapter no matter where it's been posted. So if I used Fiction Press for my free novel, and someone else used Wattpad, and a reader wanted to keep up with two stories one on each, they could do that. It would be like an email service with a link to the new chapter. That would be very helpful!
Mod
Personally, I do not like serials. I wait for the end and then buy the book. I don't care of the chapters come free. I'll pay to have it all at once. :) I'm patient.As for series, which I think are complete books but linked together, I would not subscribe or pre-pay. I'll get them as they come out.
I waited until the Rifter was completely done & released before I bought it. Not so with JCP's...uh...crap. The airplane one? I read that along, but I stored a few up so I could read several at a go.If I ever get it into my head to write a serial, you have my permission to lob bricks. Many, many bricks. Serials are just painful to me. PAINFUL. Do not like.
Mod
lol, I'm assuming the swear was because you couldn't remember the title, not because it was terrible.
I wanted to read it all along, but never had time, and kept forgetting. Recently I noticed they were all free on Amazon so I just got the rest of them. I'll get around to them eventually.
I don't mind serials like that but I do like to know they'll get finished at some point and that they won't drone on forever and ever. But, these days, there are too many other books to read so I usually don't want to bother. I've also found lately that I like blasting through a series rather than holding back and trying to save them. It gives me the idea that I'm reading faster than I actually am, I think, by way of completing a series faster that way.
I just can't resist putting my foot in my mouth, can I? LOL. No, I don't think the airplane one is crap. I liked it. Just couldn't remember the series name. Gah.
Mod
If I may chime in--the point of releasing the Rifter as a serial was to try and elicit the sort of real-time reading excitement and conversation about a book that nowadays people only have about television shows, as in "OMG!! DID U SEE WHAT HAPPENED ON XXX???????, rather than as a selling strategy,"OMG, I need some money but I don't have a whole book done..... Maybe I can get people to pay me as I go."
I think that's where a lot of serializations go very wrong--the impulse to sell something before it's ready because of a cash-flow crisis.
Since doing the Rifter I cannot stress strongly enough that anyone hoping to serialize needs to either have the entire story finished before releasing it, be or an epically and compliant outliner and deadline meeter. Otherwise the whole thing risks becoming a morass of anxiety and disappointment.
The Rifter had been completely written and divided into 10 segments where the story reached natural cliffhangers. Even then production, such as proofreading, generating cover art, file conversion etc meant that a couple of the volumes were finished literally the day before they were posted.
I don't think I need to explain how not optimal that situation is. LOL
Calathea wrote: "With JCP's Turbulence Collection the timespan was too long for me (with the consequence that I stopped reading after installment 5 or 6)."The same happened to me, but I bought the collection when it was completed and read it all together.
Josh wrote: "Wattpad allows you to notify your followers"Only the followers bright enough to catch how it works... Or maybe I wasn't a follower?
Nicole wrote: "If I may chime in--the point of releasing the Rifter as a serial was to try and elicit the sort of real-time reading excitement and conversation about a book that nowadays people only have about television shows, as in "OMG!! DID U SEE WHAT HAPPENED ON XXX???????, rather than as a selling strategy"I can speak only from the reader's side: for me it was perfect! And considering the size of The Rifter, the serialization took also away the ''fear'' of starting such a big book.
Josh wrote: "Given how uneducated my grandparents were, that reverence for the ability to sing or write or paint seems an unusual thing (or maybe that's my own bias -- maybe it isn't at all unusual)."Thank you the glimpse of your family: IMO it was unusual.
It is not unusual for uneducated parents to want a better education for their children, but often this goes in the direction of very down-to-earth studies that will make them wealthy.
Mod
Hey Antonella! Yeah, a lot of people had book massive-ness fear, like yourself. But a whole other segment needed to be strongly reassured that the story DID come to a complete end that was already written. Fear of being strung along endlessly, I think.
Since we did that project I've talked to a lot of indie publishers about it and I always stress the "it has to already be done" part.
The other thing I always mention is that a serial story requires greater and stronger plotting than other sorts of stories. UST and romance alone won't sustain even romance readers. Greater tension and higher stakes are required to retain audience IMHO.
Mod
I think serials are that way for a lot of readers. But I also think there are 2 distinct sorts of readers--public and private. Public readers love the discussion aspect of books--join reading clubs and stuff like that, whereas private readers seem to want to be very personal and intimate with the books they read in a way that almost precludes all discussion of them.
I definitely fall into the private reader category. I hardly ever want to talk about books I enjoy (or don't enjoy) because my pleasure in them seems to me to be completely individual and personal. I will promote and advocate for books I love with all my strength and courage, but I won't discuss them with other people the way that, say a reviewer might discuss or consider a book.
I suspect that public readers, though thrive on the discussion as much as the book itself. The input of other readers adds value to the reading experience so that experience of the book becomes collective.
I don't think one method is more valid than the other, but they do seem to be very different ways of experiencing text.
Serials would greatly appeal to a public reader, I think.
Mod
So is my wife. :) So what happens is that I get an entire overview of some TV show or story that is occurring in my living room for, like 18 hours, then later I go back and watch them one at a time so I can pay attention to what's going on. But I'm a re-watcher/reader. There are books I've read more than 100 times.
I was just thinking, another kind of story that could be serialized is something episodic, but even then, they should be all done before starting to publish them.
Yeah, but the episodes would have to have pretty strong continuation between them otherwise it would be better off as a series.
Since we've been discussing this I've been surfing around seeing what people seem to be doing with serializations these days. (I confess, I hardly ever look at what other publishers are doing.) Storm Moon seems to be doing a "Season's Pass" promotion where serialized material is collected in a value-added final package. Riptide seems to have only one serial. I seem to remember that Torquere did serials as well.
I think that doing a serial as a fan promotion is a lot different than doing one to sell for realz. One is a way of interacting with fans for fun for free the other is, like, a Product For Sale.
About ten years ago, one of my first works accepted for publication was a longish dystopian thriller (subsequently released by Samhain). The site, called AnotherChapter.com, published serialized fiction exclusively -- and, I think, by subscription. What made it so appealing to me was the gorgeous original art that was contracted for every story; each installment came with full-color illustrations.Alas, Another Chapter folded when I was about halfway through cutting up my novel into sections of the appropriate length. Not sure how such a venture would fly now, considering so many e-readers don't display art to advantage (if at all), but I still love the concept.
Mod
Yes, I think that approach can be very effective. A means of drumming up excitement and conversation -- that did happen with Rifter.
But you're also right that sometimes serialization feels more like a blatant effort to capitalize on a work still in progress. Or sometimes the impetus is not cash, but a neediness for feedback and reassurance. Which gives the reader (this reader anyway) the uneasy feeling that the story might not be finished if enough praise and encouragement is not forthcoming. I suspect that's a dynamic inherited from fandom.
In fact, one of the most puzzling things I used to see in fandom -- and I saw it many times -- was the cry for "emergency beta" because someone was desperate to post a story.
What the hell is with the desperation? Where is the emergency? WAIT until the story is ready.
I think that's where a lot of serializations go very wrong--the impulse to sell something before it's ready because of a cash-flow crisis.
Yes. Definitely.
Since doing the Rifter I cannot stress strongly enough that anyone hoping to serialize needs to either have the entire story finished before releasing it, be or an epically and compliant outliner and deadline meeter. Otherwise the whole thing risks becoming a morass of anxiety and disappointment.
I agree. Having to hold to a deadline kept me steadily producing chapters to the Haunted Heart, but I didn't enjoy having to figure stuff out on the fly. Or rather, having to reveal that I was figuring stuff out on the fly. :-D
The Rifter had been completely written and divided into 10 segments where the story reached natural cliffhangers. Even then production, such as proofreading, generating cover art, file conversion etc meant that a couple of the volumes were finished literally the day before they were posted.
I think it was the knowledge that the book was already complete that gave me the courage to read in installments. That was one story where I did NOT want to be left hanging for a few years. :-D
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:-P Sorry, I couldn't help but point that out.
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Oh yeah, I totally understand that if I were to do a serialized thing today, I couldn't write it the way I wrote my fanfiction back in the day. It bugs me, but I get it.
Actually, there were several pieces of old fanfic I'd started and then fell out of love with. Mostly I'd left the fandom and the show and couldn't write for it any more. However, I forced myself to finish pieces even when I didn't want to. They were out there, they had fans, so I finished them and didn't go back. But oddly enough, a lot of people asked me for more. Clearly they couldn't tell the love just wasn't there anymore. :-P
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I love the idea of original art for each chapter. That is so cool! We like to do a lot of art at BEB, but don't usually put it into the digital versions for those very same formatting reasons. But we have the advantage of print so we can kinda let the art out there.
Mod
Most recently? Venture Brothers.
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Never thought about that, but yeah, I see how that could happen. You know, I can't think of a worse turnoff (as a reader) than having a sense that an author won't write a story without praise. But then again, I'm naturally attracted to arrogance. :)
In fact, one of the most puzzling things I used to see in fandom -- and I saw it many times -- was the cry for "emergency beta" because someone was desperate to post a story.
What the hell is with the desperation? Where is the emergency? WAIT until the story is ready."
LOL that's hilarious. I sorta wish I'd spent more time reading fan fiction, but I could never hang around sites too long before I'd start making editorial commentary on people's stories and then get kicked out for being a hurtful and negative person with my own questionable agenda.
And I did have an agenda. I thought, "Wow, I bet some of these people could write original stories if they wanted to. They just need to step away from the safety of the derivative and level up the technical game."
But practicing to become professional is not the primary point of the fanfic community, I realized, so I shut up and skedaddled back to my lair. :)
Mod
I know, right? It's like discovering that you've had yesterday's pantyhose hanging out the bottom of your pantleg for three hours and now EVERYBODY KNOWS you just wear what's laying on the bathroom floor when you get up--NOT the polished image you'd like to present to the world at large. :)
Jordan wrote: "I don't understand people who don't reread or rewatch things. My Mom's like that. Once she's read it or watched it, she's done with it. I love going back to reread sections or the whole book..."Well, see, here's the thing. Not every story I read or movie I watch is worth re-visiting. In fact, most of them aren't. Doesn't mean they aren't good stories (and movies) or that I didn't enjoy them. The emotional journey isn't one I want to make again, though. Or they scratched a fleeting, temporary itch. Or, to be brutally honest, the plot/characters/emotions weren't richly textured enough to capture my interest a second, third, or twelfth time. This isn't a quality vs quantity issue, at least not for me. I've re-read quantity books. I like some of those cheetos books, a lot. (Feel free to pelt me with produce at your leisure.) I'm talking about the kind of story that reaches into your gut and sometimes, a quantity story (craft issues aside) does that for me.
Getting into my Comfort Read collection on my kindle isn't a given, isn't guaranteed. I have over a thousand books loaded into my K3. I have less than 4dz in my repeat read file. To me, becoming a repeat read is a badge of woot for an author. Something to strive for. When a reader tells me they've read and reread my book, then I know I've done it right. I wasn't a temporary fix. I was a keeper.
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Good for you for finishing them!
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My Mom's like that too. I have no idea how my Dad has managed to retain her attention all these years. He must be endlessly fascinating somehow. :P
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:-)
K.Z. wrote: "About ten years ago, one of my first works accepted for publication was a longish dystopian thriller (subsequently released by Samhain)."
Do you mind if I ask the title? By the way, Merman is gorgeous. You know what the Mongrel series reminds me of? Who was the guy who did the art in Monty Python? His movies. That sort of dark, haunting, eerie, lush, colorful world. Like a place you want to walk around in, because it looks so interesting even though it feels dangerous. I love it.
Do you mind if I ask the title? By the way, Merman is gorgeous. You know what the Mongrel series reminds me of? Who was the guy who did the art in Monty Python? His movies. That sort of dark, haunting, eerie, lush, colorful world. Like a place you want to walk around in, because it looks so interesting even though it feels dangerous. I love it.
Lou wrote: "Nicole wrote: "Josh wrote: " Having to hold to a deadline kept me steadily producing chapters to the Haunted Heart, but I didn't enjoy having to figure stuff out on the fly. Or rather, having to re..."
That's the reason I don't do it. Plot evolution going on through too many drafts, right up till the end, which sometimes requires major revision of early chapters, and it's just too much of a mess. If I'd serialized the book I just finished, readers would've been utterly lost. I was utterly lost through most of it.
Writers who can serialize, I am seriously impressed with them. I keep meaning to try careful, detailed plotting before the first draft, just for the experience of it, but it's a difficult habit to develop.
That's the reason I don't do it. Plot evolution going on through too many drafts, right up till the end, which sometimes requires major revision of early chapters, and it's just too much of a mess. If I'd serialized the book I just finished, readers would've been utterly lost. I was utterly lost through most of it.
Writers who can serialize, I am seriously impressed with them. I keep meaning to try careful, detailed plotting before the first draft, just for the experience of it, but it's a difficult habit to develop.
Nicole wrote: "I definitely fall into the private reader category. I hardly ever want to talk about books I enjoy (or don't enjoy) because my pleasure in them seems to me to be completely individual and personal. I will promote and advocate for books I love with all my strength and courage, but I won't discuss them with other people the way that, say a reviewer might discuss or consider a book...."That is so ME! I hate picking a book apart. It was agony on me during my English major days! I was so tongue tied. Even now I have a hard time squeezing any type of review of the books I read. I mark 'em read, write a sentence (or a few words) of my thoughts and move on. Even then it is hard to come up with something to say.
Tamara wrote: "Who was the guy who did the art in Monty Python? His movies. That sort of dark, haunting, eerie, lush, colorful world...."That was Terry Gilliam. Fantastic analogy, too! I agree.
Mod
Yeah, I always had a hard time summing up things made out of words by using other words in a different order. Just never got the hang of it. Probably why I had such a hard time learning to write back copy and other sorts of promotional materials.
Nicole wrote: "Probably why I had such a hard time learning to write back copy and other sorts of promotional materials. "Back cover copy is a real knack, though - learning to sell the book, not tell the story. I once worked at a mass market publisher where we had weekly BCC meetings - all the senior eds going over the juniors' BCC like a pack of hyenas. I learned a lot very quickly...
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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