Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
note: This topic has been closed to new comments.
ARCHIVE (General Topics)
>
Writing Questions for Josh
message 4151:
by
mc
(new)
May 16, 2013 07:31AM
Listen (no offense, Josh, I love you like a brother), but if I'm paying $9884.50, I EXPECT FREE SHIPPING!
reply
|
flag
Mod
I'm not pubbed yet, but mine tend to be between 5-10 8 1/2 X 11 pages, roughly averaging out to 7.
It really depends on the writer, and the book, where those chapter breaks fall. The book I'm currently working on is one giant manuscript right now. When I hit one point in my writing I stuck in a note that it might be a good place for a chapter break. But I'll go back and insert those later.
When I used to write fanfic, and I was posting one chapter a week or so, I would write chapter by chapter, and not one big lump before breaking it up. But that worked for me then. These days, it doesn't seem to.
Mod
Author. If an editor is suggesting different chapter breaks, you're talking about a fairly intensive rewrite. Which I can't but help think indicates a book not ready for prime time.
Mod
Do you try to keep chapters around the same length or does that not matter?"
I try to keep chapters about the same length (7 - 10 pages) but ultimately the break is determined by the dramatic flow.
Mod
Man, O Man used Paperback is being sold for +$900 US!
It's worth a screen shot at the very least. =D
Man, Oh Man, Writing M/M Fiction for Cash & Kinks by Josh Lanyon (Mar 22, 2008)..."
I do hope no one is mad enough to pay that! Especially when so much of the book is so very out of date.
Mod
No kidding! The added postage charge is just insult to injury!
Mod
The ideal chapter completes a short narrative arc and finishes leaving the reader desperate to see what happens next.
What you do not want is to end a chapter on a note of completion or satisfaction. You want the reader to feel compelled to TURN THE PAGE.,
Mod
Audible lists..."
If I was paranoid, I'd suspect that the books are being held back from Amazon to teach me a lesson for daring to complain publicly at the way Amazon "incentivizes" audio book pricing without consulting the author.
But it's probably just a glitch.
Mod
Or several. It will probably take several to ease the pain!
Josh, the good news is we have your marketing hook for the release of the new and updated Man! Oh Man!"Why Pay $9884.50 when you can get a brand-new copy for just 29.99, along with a one-year free membership to Josh's super-friendly GR group!
Join an eclectic group of international readers offering trenchant commentary on world issues, useful book reviews and free gardening advice!"
Mod
I can recommend Sasha Knight as a freelance editor (she's my editor at Samhain). She does a general content edit and close copyedit -- and she gives you two run-throughs. I think she's currently charging about 2 cents a word. You can reach her through her twitter account https://twitter.com/sknighteditor
Mod
Excellent idea, mc! But... let me just edit this a bit...
"Why Pay $9884.50 when you can get a brand-new copy for just 29.99, along with a one-year free membership to Josh's super squirrel-friendly GR group!"
:-)
Johanna wrote: "mc wrote: "Why Pay $9884.50 when you can get a brand-new copy for just 29.99, along with a one-year free membership to Josh's super-friendly GR group!"Excellent idea, mc! But... let me just edit ..."
Now, you are just taunting me. Shudder.
Perhaps you might be interested in joining this team, Johanna?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/...
Mod
Excellent idea, mc! But... l..."
No taunting. Never that. :-)
By the way, do you think Josh would notice if you'd edit some squirrels in his blurbs? Why didn't I come to think of that earlier... squirrel humor would fit perfectly with Kit... ;-)
mc wrote: "Listen (no offense, Josh, I love you like a brother), but if I'm paying $9884.50, I EXPECT FREE SHIPPING!"Hey, for that price I expect the cover models to deliver it personally. =D
Reggie wrote: "I haven't finished my tea yet, but Josh's Amazon, US, page seems off. I was looking to see if the new audible was out and noticed that not all the audios are listed. **head scratch**
Audible lists..."
Finished my tea, so I wrote a wth email. **shrugs** At least the audios will be represented at Mount Email**. 8)
**Maybe I should have included some of our squirrels? They would love to play in Amazon's software!
Josh wrote: "If I was paranoid, I'd suspect that the books are being held back from Amazon to teach me a lesson for daring to complain publicly at the way Amazon "incentivizes" audio book pricing without consulting the author.But it's probably just a glitch. "
I was going to laugh at your paranoia, but when I went to Amazon to update the product info for you I got this:
Hmmm!
Charming wrote: "Josh wrote: "If I was paranoid, I'd suspect that the books are being held back from Amazon to teach me a lesson for daring to complain publicly at the way Amazon "incentivizes" audio book pricing wBack in business .
Yay, troops!
Josh wrote: "Tina Kay wrote: "Aleksandr wrote: "It tends to be the writer, but I've seen editors suggest different breaks to improve structure/tension."Do you try to keep chapters around the same length or do..."
Thank you, Josh
Thanks to all who responded to my question on chapters. I just realized recently that I notice chapters less in ebooks than I do actual paper books. There's something satisfying about placing a bookmark at the end of a chapter that just isn't there with the electronic version...especially since it automatically holds your spot anyway - so maybe that's why.
Mod
:-D
Mod
I know! Exactly. I tried to do the same thing. I wrote to Audible, though, and they said they'll try and fix it.
Uh huh.
It's also taking a full two months for Strange Fortune to go live. It's supposed to take about two weeks. (Okay, in fairness, I did goof up the first month and not mark it live!)
Okay, I just read the GR blurb for a short piece (21 Kindle pages) some people are gushing over. Two or three sentences in this brief first-person intro had me groaning. Strenuously. I immediately got the impression the story -- m/m, I think -- was produced by somebody who aspires to write literary fiction, and maybe aspires a leetle too hard.So here's my question. I'm curious about how Josh, and the rest of you very insightful people, determine the difference between beautiful prose and purple-as-a-bruise prose. When does "flowery" cross the line from wild roses to suffocating clouds of dyed carnations?
This isn't the first time I've come upon niche fiction that seems verbally strained. Seriously, I can't help but wonder if I've become too jaded a reader to see the brilliance in it. Has that ever happened to you?
K.Z. wrote: "I'm curious about how Josh, and the rest of you very insightful people, determine the difference between beautiful prose and purple-as-a-bruise prose. When does "flowery" cross the line from wild roses to suffocating clouds of dyed carnations?"For me it's when it doesn't work, isn't consistent to the characters and the story, when it comes out of nowhere and doesn't do a thing to push the story forward or doesn't seem "real". I mean, who talks like that in flowery purple prose all the time? :)
K.Z. wrote: "So here's my question. I'm curious about how Josh, and the rest of you very insightful people, determine the difference between beautiful prose and purple-as-a-bruise prose. When does "flowery" cross the line from wild roses to suffocating clouds of dyed carnations? ..."I think that one reason why Josh's prose works so well and yet is a cut above the rest is because it is quite spare. He makes every word tell, and manages to convey an image or a feeling with a few, perfect words. A lesser writer might use the same image but describe it in dense, overblown, lengthy detail.
Look at this month's discussion of CUTYS:
"... the words came quickly, one at a time, in flashing, fierce scissor snips."
"the mercilessly bright stars in the black sky" - not just an observation, but an indication of the observer's feelings.
"Just as he'd done his best to fulfil her wish that he become a poet, he had done his best to fulfil her wish that he'd never been born." This tells us so much both about what happened but why, and the ramifications of that. it encapsulates Swift's relationship with his mother.
"It was like seeing Max dismantle his dreams, one cupboard, one drawer, at a time." This refers not only to the indignity of the search, but to his relationship with Max, and also to the slow, careful building up of his supposedly safe clean life both in his home and in his work.
Josh is wonderful at conveying so much with so few words, paring away the verbosity which others might deploy.
I am not sure if you know but it seems that the author of the famed series Demonica and Lord of Deliverance is about release a M/M novella in June. http://larissaione.com/blog/books/int...
I am somewhat excite about this since I am a fan of the author. I liked how Ms. Ione write about big brawny, tattoo, men. It was refreshing after reading all the pretty, fae-like, fair men in Anita Blake series and Merry Gentry series.
Pete wrote: "I am not sure if you know but it seems that the author of the famed series Demonica and Lord of Deliverance is about release a M/M novella in June. http://larissaione.com/blog/books/int......"
Interesting. I've read the Demonica series. I hope she does a good job.
Mod
I think "strain" is the key word. When the stylistic stretch exceeds the emotional grasp, you've got a writer still learning his or her craft.
Well, I mean, we're all still learning our craft, but some people have moved beyond clumping along in bronzed baby shoes.
Simple, effective language. A beautiful and precise image versus stylistic gyration. This is what you want. When the words intrude, that's not a good thing. When the reader is distracted by the showiness of the writing, that's not effective writing. The reader should be caught up and swept along by the story, occasionally aware of a lovely phrase, but the lovely phrase should simply enhance the mood of the scene and story, make it more powerful, more resonant. NOT yank the reader out of the story to decipher or weigh the words.
K.Z. wrote: "So here's my question. I'm curious about how Josh, and the rest of you very insightful people, determine the difference between beautiful prose and purple-as-a-bruise prose. When does "flowery" cross the line from wild roses to suffocating clouds of dyed carnations?This isn't the first time I've come upon niche fiction that seems verbally strained. Seriously, I can't help but wonder if I've become too jaded a reader to see the brilliance in it. Has that ever happened to you?..."
HJ's reply pretty much nails it. It's about making every single word count. So if the writer has to tell you about "The intoxicating scent of the mid summer roses that perfume the air with their heady fragrance...." that's too many adjectives and not beautiful prose.
Mod
http://larissaione.com/blog/books/int......"
I'm divided. I loved the first few lines -- I was about to preorder -- but I HATE stories where anybody has to pretend to be anyone else's lover/wife/fiancé. I can sort of take it in heterosexual novels of a certain era. I cannot BEAR it when it's gay men. It's one of my all time least favorite tropes.
So...I don't know. I'm all ruffled and irritated that I got my hopes up for nothing. It's great that her publisher is taking a chance on an m/m novel, though.
Mod
Mod
This is where I give Suze Brockmann credit.
Josh wrote: "Why is it that all these M/M mainstream crossover stories have to be of the spec fiction/fantasy variety? How come gay is okay if you're a vampire/shift..."You have to remember that most mainstream m/f romance books are unrealistic. So there is no "just a... guy", like you would write him. Brockmann at least did a contemporary.
Spec Fic is a great way for people who are fine with m/m but don't have any concrete experience to find resonance with it.
I always refer back to the article on spec fic by the great LBGT author/editor/publisher Nicole Kimberling 8)
The Epic Win …. by Nicole Kimberling
http://www.reviewsbyjessewave.com/201...
Yes, it would be nice if we could just hurry up and get over it already!!!
eta- title
Mod
You have to remember that ..."
You cannot underestimate the power of popular entertainment to change society. It is pulp fiction, NOT literary fiction that changes the world.
And preserves sanity and lives.
;-P
But I am not entirely kidding.
Josh wrote: "When the stylistic stretch exceeds the emotional grasp . . ."That's it right there. But why, I wonder, are so many readers impressed by these pretentious and awkward stretches?
Mod
That's it right there. But why, I wonder, are so many readers impressed by these pretentious and awkward stretches?"
They think they should be.
Seriously, though, readers who know their stuff AREN'T impressed.
K.Z. wrote: "But why, I wonder, are so many readers impressed by these pretentious and awkward stretches?"We're not. ^____^
Pete wrote: "I am not sure if you know but it seems that the author of the famed series Demonica and Lord of Deliverance is about release a M/M novella in June. http://larissaione.com/blog/books/int......"
I hit the phrase undeniably straight and nearly quit reading the blurb. If this is a GFY, I wouldn't make it through the book. Guaranteed. (By GFY, I mean the kind in which one of the heroes, presumably a mature and experienced man, has never had the slightest twinge of same-sex attraction yet undergoes Complete Orientation Reversal thanks to the irresistible charms of one person. Grrrrr.)
Na wrote: "Awkward surely but pretentious is perhaps not the intent. :)"I'm sure neither is the intent!
Josh wrote: "And here is a completely ungrateful comment. Why is it that all these M/M mainstream crossover stories have to be of the spec fiction/fantasy variety? How come gay is okay if you're a vampire/shifter/special abilities...but not just a...guy?This is where I give Suze Brockmann credit.
In total agreement here. I am completely paranormaled out. I still have some books from series I'm following on my reader that I have not read yet. Unless it's an author I adore, I've been skipping them.
But if the m/m mainstream has to come through the backdoor of paranormal... eventually it will end up with contemporary books, I hope.
Didn't a big-name m/f romance author publish an m/m contemporary in the past year? (I don't read m/f popular fiction, so these authors' names never stick with me.)
K.Z. wrote: "Didn't a big-name m/f romance author publish an m/m contemporary in the past year? (I don't read m/f popular fiction, so these authors' names never stick with me.)"It was Lori Foster, and according to Josh, she did a pretty piss-poor job of it. He blogged about it at Jessewave.
Josh wrote: "You cannot underestimate the power of popular entertainment to change society. It is pulp fiction, NOT literary fiction that changes the world. And preserves sanity and lives.
;-P
But I am not entirely kidding. ..."
I don't think you can be kidding. I'm sure it's true. I think people rarely relate to literary fiction. Plus, the type of person who reads it (huge generalisation here) is often more aware of issues and the need to change. Pulp fiction changes the world because it appears to be about pretty normal people, and if the characters in it happen to think slightly differently or frequently make the same assumptions about the world, or avoid certain stereotypes, that can have an effect on the reader.
Susinok wrote: "Josh wrote: "And here is a completely ungrateful comment. Why is it that all these M/M mainstream crossover stories have to be of the spec fiction/fantasy variety? How come gay is okay if you're a ..."Sheesh, you guys, vampires need love too! And as for shifters -- hey, maters gonna mate. :)
K.Z. wrote: "Sheesh, you guys, vampires need love too! And as for shifters -- hey, maters gonna mate. :) ..."I agree, but I've read way too many of them too close together. I just need a breather from fangs and fur.
Lou wrote: "Josh wrote: "I also hate undercover in prison stories, if anyone is keeping score. :-D"How about undercover sex club stories? :P"
Tell me more. :)
Susinok wrote: "It was Lori Foster, and according to Josh, she did a pretty piss-poor job of it. He blogged about it at Jessewave."Yes, she's the one. I do remember a lot of m/m readers grumbling about the book.
Many het-romance writers either transitioned to or simultaneously produce m/m contemporaries (myself included). But of course it's the bestselling authors who'd make an impact if they presented gay couples honestly, without continually trying to "soften the blow."
I've always had trouble with shifters of any ilk. Can't get past the bestiality taboo, I guess. Even Beauty and the Beast and those Geico commercials -- the ones in which women flirt with the gecko and the pig -- squick me out!
K.Z. wrote: "I've always had trouble with shifters of any ilk. Can't get past the bestiality taboo, I guess. Even Beauty and the Beast and those Geico commercials -- the ones in which women flirt with the gecko...":-D :-D ...You better not see that Ted movie.
K.Z. wrote: "I've always had trouble with shifters of any ilk. Can't get past the bestiality taboo, I guess. Even Beauty and the Beast and those Geico commercials -- the ones in which women flirt with the gecko..."You are reading way too much into those commercials, KZ. :) That's some imagination you have going on. But from your books, we know this. :)
This topic has been frozen by the moderator. No new comments can be posted.
Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
Alphabears: An ABC Book (other topics)Rag and Bone (other topics)
As Meat Loves Salt (other topics)
The Well of Loneliness (other topics)
The Selfish Gene (other topics)
More...
Authors mentioned in this topic
Julie Smith (other topics)Bernard Cornwell (other topics)
Robin McKinley (other topics)
Tove Jansson (other topics)
Astrid Lindgren (other topics)
More...
