Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Writing Questions for Josh
Josh wrote: "In other words, I'm writing for readers like myself."I'm doing the same. I suspect most of us are. But when, as you said, books that are chock full of kink seem to be selling the best, it's difficult not to question one's standards.
My publishers haven't really been riding me about sex scenes -- thank goodness. Rather, readers' buying habits have been preying on my mind. Aside from the personal-earnings issue, I'd hate like hell to see this genre equated with and defined by its sexual content. That's just wrong on so many levels.
Ah, pfff. I'm too set in my ways to change anyway, so the point in my case is probably moot. Besides, I can't imagine convincingly writing "obligatory" anything.
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That said, I think it depends on the publisher.
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I'm doing the same. I suspect most of us are. But when, as you said, books that are chock full of kink seem to be selling the bes..."
I agree. I don't want to see this genre defined by all the sex. It's definitely not right at all. And probably is part of the reason why I don't want to add to it, unless the story requires it.
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I feel I'm somewhere in the middle.I think I've been writing more sex-scenes than I used to, but I don't put them in to spice up the story or because I think it'll sell better. They just fit my boys at that time ...
I like writing scenes that only show part of what my boys are up to, the scene might end, but the boys are really not done yet :) the rest will happen behind the curtains.
I like the idea of leaving something to the readers' imagination, and that includes some fading to black moments :)
As for my own reading preferences: I can take them or leave them. I might skip over sex scenes because they either don't add anything or I'm just not interested/in the mood. But in a book with fade to black, I might wish I could take a peek ;)
ETA: my sex scenes are always slaves to the plot, though, no matter now many turn up.
I happen to like IKEA. A lot. *ducks*
K.Z. wrote: "Josh wrote: "In other words, I'm writing for readers like myself."I'm doing the same. I suspect most of us are. But when, as you said, books that are chock full of kink seem to be selling the bes..."
Yes, I tend to do that as well.
I write stories that are in my heart and that I'd like to read, and that I hope readers are going to like.
Cleon wrote: "I happen to like IKEA. A lot. *ducks*"
It's not about "like" or "dislike".... It's how the merch. is put together. ;-)
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There isn't any IKEA store in Indonesia, unfortunately. The closest IKEA shop is in Singapore and even then it's not easy to reach by subway. I first went there went I was at junior high with my dad who worked in furniture business. IKEA is like a toy shop to me, yes, still is, there are so many cute stuff together in one place with affordable price. I've been to countless numbers of furniture exhibition and stores and looked at brochures and magazines until I was nauseous, but I love IKEA because going there is like going treasure hunting. Who knows what you might find in the pile of stuff. LOL.
I don't think sex has to feel shoehorned into a book just for titillation. I love Josh's sex scenes - they're poetic and dramatic and enhance the stories. Or take JCP's Channeling Morpheus series - those guys are making it ALL the time, and yet the story flows, I'm emotionally engaged and I don't feel like I'm reading porn. I don't think the problem is with putting sex in stories, it's putting in bad - IKEA one size fits all - sex. And that's sort of how it is in real life, isn't it?
Dev wrote: "I don't think sex has to feel shoehorned into a book just for titillation. I love Josh's sex scenes - they're poetic and dramatic and enhance the stories. Or take JCP's Channeling Morpheus series -..."I think it's not just the sex, but trope & plot, even characters, everything can be overdone. That's why I don't get why people love Harlequin so much. They're just same stories with different names. Harlequin also has very strict formula & guidelines for their writers.
You know, it's not only m/m romance that's chock full of sex. Contemporary romance in general seems to mean lots of sex. Think Suzanne Brockman's straight stuff or Jennifer Cruisie - you can pick those up in the grocery store and they get pretty graphic - tab A's go into all sorts of slot B's.
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*ducks*"
but this is perfectly all right -- for readers and for writers.
I mean what could possibly be more subjective than our preferences in romance?
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..."
In fairness, so is a lot of m/m.
Isn't that really what we're talking about when we talk about an expectation of erotic content? It's formula.
And that Harlequin formula that is so often denegrated often has to do with structure and plotting and character arcs. These are not bad things. These are things that the majority of m/m writers could learn from.
I'm one of those writers who genuinely likes writing a lot of sex. Do I have to have a lot of sex in what I read? No. Do I have to have a lot of sex in what I write? No. Depends on the story.I haven't had a publisher recommend more of the smexin, but let's get real. For my stuff, the odds a pub would think I'd need more are remote. ;-p
Josh wrote: "Sex sells. As awkwardly schizo a society as we are about it, sex sells like crazy. Which can be difficult to accept if you're an ambitious, "serious" writer. The hard fact is that your beautifully crafted little literary masterpiece will likely be outsold by someone else's flaming hot mess of erotica. Let alone someone else's beautifully crafted literary flaming hot mess of erotica."I like the schizo analogy (although Multiple Personality Disorder might be just as useful, IDK), but I have a tiny little argument. Sex is natural, and it's a natural part of the human psyche. A hell of a lot happens during sex that can give you more insight into the true character than a scene with dialogue. It's certainly not always handled this way, and plenty of people don't use it that way. But some people (ahem) do. OTOH, some people can show more with a short scene of dialogue *cough*Josh*cough* than I can with a 2k sex scene.
Or, I just really like to write sex. It's a little of both, actually, I suspect.
Cleon wrote: "Josh wrote: "Josh wrote: "Now if they have no desire to write anything else, that's no problem. Money is very nice and if that's all you're concerned with, you're in like Flynn..."
It occurred to..."
LOL
I think sex can be an easy way to generate interest in a book and can cover for a multitude of sins in plotting and prose. So on the whole, a reader is less critical of the writing in a book that is primarily erotica than she is for a book where erotica isn't present. I'm not saying that erotica readers as a whole are less critical. I'm saying that whereas I require a high level of competency in my erotica, I expect even more in non-erotica. Because my focus is on the story and prose instead of 'hormone' driven. So my thinking is that if one wants to starts writing less erotic content, ones skill at writing needs to be higher to succeed. Personally, I think my skill is up to selling erotica, I suspect it's not up yet to selling on the basis of my story constructinon, ability to create tension, etc. KZ, you're an awesome writer. I'd certainly go for it. Know damn well I'd read it.
I dunno, even factoring that in, it may be that the monetary 'value' of erotica is still way too high to make a switch fiscally sound even for a great writer. But I do think that aspect plays a role. Hope that all made sense.
Note: was intentionally decoupling fiscal from the 'writing as self-fulfillment' aspect.
Oco wrote: "I think sex can be an easy way to generate interest in a book and can cover for a multitude of sins in plotting and prose. So on the whole, a reader is less critical of the writing in a book that i..."You make sense, but I honestly never looked at it that way.
then again, I never thought about writers writing m/m because 'that's where the money is' either. (sometimes I think it'll take another 100 years for me to outgrow my naivety)
Hi Blaine, good morning (I say as I begin to wrap up my evening...)! I don't think many m/m writers do erotica for the money. But I do think many start out writing erotica, then start to grow tired of that and want to grow as writers and thinkers. Then the question comes up because erotica sells, and there may be pressure to keep up the sales (both internal and external pressure). I remember Sarah Black once mentioned that she'd been asked by a publisher to put more sex in a story if she wanted to sell it. This being after she had a track record of sales. So the pressure is real.For the record. I still love writing sex. :p But I could see myself growing tired of it. My stories tend to be bimodal -- some are sex heavy, some have precious little. The sex heavy ones are the ones that get read.
Oco wrote: "Hi Blaine, good morning (I say as I begin to wrap up my evening...)! I don't think many m/m writers do erotica for the money. But I do think many start out writing erotica, then start to grow tired..."sssh ... it's actually 2am here ... high time for me to go to be (specially since youngest has volleyball match at 9:30)
Sometimes I hate having kids playing sports and being a dutiful mother who watches the matches ... especially after coming home late after an evening of playing cards *sigh*
Good night :D
Dev wrote: "You know, it's not only m/m romance that's chock full of sex. Contemporary romance in general seems to mean lots of sex."Oh, hell yeah. I started out writing m/f for Ellora's Cave, and the very first time I submitted a novel, I was told to insert more sex scenes. The pressure never really let up. Obviously, I got tired of it. ;-)
Oco wrote: "The sex heavy ones are the ones that get read. "Yep. *sigh* My point exactly.
I certainly don't recoil from the physical aspects of m/m romance. Quite like it, actually. :) But I've always believed less is more, as long as the "less" is deftly handled.
Too much emphasis on Le Boink or La Kink -- too many lengthy, repetitive scenes -- leave me bored, impatient, and ultimately numb. Sexual excess seems to negate both the physical heat and emotional warmth of a relationship. It seems to flatten the characters and abort their development. It can certainly suck the marrow right out of a plot.
But that's just my reaction. Plenty of readers, maybe a majority of readers, can't get enough explicit sex in fiction. In fact, they seek it out (as you mentioned, Oco). So I'm likely in the minority.
Blaine D. wrote: "You make sense, but I honestly never looked at it that way.then again, I never thought about writers writing m/m because 'that's where the money is' either. (sometimes I think it'll take another 100 years for me to outgrow my naivety) "
Naivete is a gift. Besides, you aren't the gullible one when it comes to writing MM because "that's where the money is". :-P
I think writing great sex scenes is a gift that not everyone can do it. I can't do it. If I'm asked to write a detailed long sex scene or numerous sex scenes I'm going to break into hives. Seriously.
{Non-writing Q for Josh}- I am going to add to my JL collection as books are re-released. Is any outlet more advantageous for you than others? Amazon, ARE, B&N- I think were the choices? I don't care- MOBI or EPUB are fine.
I don't believe heavily erotic books are in any way inferior to those that are less erotic. Writing sex? Graphic sex? Even kinky sex? Ain't easy. It's a skill and IMO, one that is equally valid (& valuable) as any other.To me, comparing erotica or the more graphic erotic rom with less graphic erotic rom is apples & oranges. I like them both. They're both fruit, but they are different fruits. One isn't necessarily worse or weaker than the other. They're just different.
It saddens me to see erotica & heavily erotic rom denigrated. Especially being that I write it.
Oh, it's definitely a skill, especially when it comes to keeping each scene fresh and unique. I admire writers who can do it well. (I really enjoyed The Back Passage, but that might've been because of the humor as much as the sex.)I've read and written plenty of erotic content. I just find it off-putting when there's so much it makes my eyes glaze over. As in anything related to any of the arts, it's a matter of personal taste.
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I completely agree, Anne.
My rule for writing sex scenes is to make sure that whatever occurs in these scenes could not occur in any other context. And that the scenes will remain unique to these characters and their dynamic.
Which is why some of my books have very little sex and some have comparatively a lot. It totally goes by the particular story.
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Amazon pays a slightly better royalty rate than the other two (about 5%) so it's not enough to be worth inconveniencing yourself. Whatever works for you will work for me.
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One of the reasons its denigrated (at least in this context) is because, unfortunately, sex sells whether it's well-written or not. There is a market for it and that market is not always discerning.
That doesn't mean that erotica is easier to write than anything else, just that it's easier to get away with NOT writing it well.
Well-written erotica is as challenging as any other well-written action. It's not easy to write well. Period.
Josh wrote: "That doesn't mean that erotica is easier to write than anything else, just that it's easier to get away with NOT writing it well."Yes. This.
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "I like the schizo analogy (although Multiple Personality Disorder might be just as useful, IDK), but I have a tiny little argument. Sex is natural, and it's a natural part of the human..."It's funny, because I had a feeling that would be your response. I can see that in your writing—love that aspect. I think it's more obvious to me in AE than in anything else I've read of yours (yes, I'm a hoarder, too).
I'm in edits right now, and every time I come to a sex scene, I groan. These are always the scenes with the most edits. :-P
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I love reading such scenes -- and I enjoy writing them (though, yes, they are challenging).
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And we love you for loving to write scenes like that... :)
Josh wrote: "Personally, I think there's nothing more satisfying than a well-written scene of erotic intimacy between two characters who have been struggling with their attraction or the obstacles in the way of..."Honestly, right now I'm wishing you would write a little brochure giving tips. This is making me nutso.
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Welllll, what I am going to write, starting this Wednesday, is a series of articles on writing gay mystery.
Wayne Gunn, author of
was kind enough to write: Lanyon probably knows more about the gay mystery heritage than any other novelist.So I thought I might as well put that knowledge to use.
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http://notyourusualsuspects.blogspot....
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "Honestly, right now I'm wishing you would write a little brochure giving tips. This is making me nutso. ..."
Welllll, what I am going to write, starting this Wednesday, is a series ..."
That's so cool!!! And such a fantastic compliment! It makes me happy for you, Josh. :)
Josh wrote: "Anne wrote: "Honestly, right now I'm wishing you would write a little brochure giving tips. This is making me nutso. ..."
Welllll, what I am going to write, starting this Wednesday, is a series ..."
That's beyond cool, Josh! :)
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Josh wrote: "Welllll, what I am going to write, starting this Wednesday, is a series of articles on writing gay mystery."Fab! So that's Wednesday sorted, then -- constantly refreshing the NYUS blog until you appear :-P
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Fab! So that's Wednesday sorted, then -- constantly refreshing the NYUS bl..."
:-D
Josh wrote: "These article will be posted at Not Your Usual Suspects blog over yonder:http://notyourusualsuspects.blogspot...."
Looking forward to reading these.
BTW I turned on the TV last night and the 2nd episode of the 2nd season of Sherlock was half over. Gah! I didn't even know it was aired in Canada yet.
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http://notyourusualsuspects.blogspot...."
Looking forward to reading these.
BTW I turned on the TV last n..."
Thank goodness you said "Canada." My heart stopped for a second. I have been waiting and waiting for this.
Josh wrote: "Thank goodness you said "Canada." My heart stopped for a second. I have been waiting and waiting for this. ..."Yeah, I specifically mentioned Canada so you wouldn't panic. LOL
It was torture turning the channel, but I hated missing that first hour of the episode. I'll be watching episode three next Sunday, but don't worry, I won't blab and spoil it for you. =D
Our daughter is in college in England and her iTunes account is in the UK store. We used it to download all the season 2 episodes of Sherlock and watched them back to back Sunday before last, in bed, when we were socked in with snow here in France. Second most brilliant thing my husband and I have done in bed.
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:-D
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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Someone else called it "IKEA" sex. LOVED IT! They gave blanket permission to quote the term freely. lol
=D