Writing Questions for Josh Showing 2,001-2,050 of 4,753

[Kari]

Nah. As soon as these books are launched (or ready to launch), I'm going to ground to work on Plunder, the zombies and Three.

[Blaine]

just answered the invite :)
Looking forward to starting
someone'd better get me that book for my Bday lol

[Jordan]

So, I picked up this book (Not LeGuin) the other day, actually I made my library buy a copy, and I'm loving it. I thought I would let you all know about it, because I think a lot of people can benefit from it. It's nonfic calledNetworking for People Who Hate Networking (wow, I think I just got the link thingy to work for the first time ever! Go me! Lame, I know) This would be great for networking as an author, but also in helping to figure out who your characters are, if you wanted to go that far with it. Or, use it in your regular day job.

I'm extremely introvert, so this book is so far awesomely helpful, and humorous, just because she understands what it's like to be an introvert. I figured most people here, being writers, are probably introverts too who have to do book promotions and other stuff we'd rather not do, so I'm recommending it. Check it out, and see what you think.

It's skinny, easy to read, and above all, fun. What more could you ask for in a nonfic book explaining how to do something you hate doing?

[Josh]

Jordan wrote: "So, I picked up this book (Not LeGuin) the other day, actually I made my library buy a copy, and I'm loving it. I thought I would let you all know about it, because I think a lot of people can bene..."

That sounds very promising! I actually don't know any writer who doesn't hate networking. Well, not networking. Networking isn't bad, but promotion. Who doesn't get uncomfortable promoting and marketing? Some of us are better at it than others, but no one becomes an author in order to promote.

In fact, if there's one thing that drives me nuts from fellow writers it's when they make comments like, "I'm not one of these people who can get out there and flog my wares."

Right. While the rest of us DREAMED of being prostitutes when we grew up. ;-P

It's part of the job, so if you want to succeed you learn to communicate with potential readers, but obviously the writing is the part we all love and care about.

[Cleon Lee]

Josh wrote: "Jordan wrote: "So, I picked up this book (Not LeGuin) the other day, actually I made my library buy a copy, and I'm loving it. I thought I would let you all know about it, because I think a lot of ..."

Hey, don't blame the prostitutes. LOL. I don't mind them compare to those sales people who ring me and text my cell EVERY DAY! GAHHH...

[Josh]

Cleon wrote: "Hey, don't blame the prostitutes. LOL. I don't mind them compare to those sales people who ring me and text my cell EVERY DAY! GAHHH...
..."

We got one last night. I cringe for them because the SO is not very patient.

[Oco]

Josh wrote: "In fact, if there's one thing that drives me nuts from fellow writers it's when they make comments like, "I'm not one of these people who can get out there and flog my wares."

*flushes* I could Totally see myself saying that. :\ (know what you mean tho).

Still, I think we see the exceptions, those people who stick mentions of their work in every thread (inappropriately, often), write cheery posts, and start thinking that everyone else must be good at some basic skill that we lack. Others make it seem simple.

It is helpful to know that other people even think of it as akin to 'prostitution'.

[Cleon Lee]

Josh wrote: "Cleon wrote: "Hey, don't blame the prostitutes. LOL. I don't mind them compare to those sales people who ring me and text my cell EVERY DAY! GAHHH...
..."

We got one last night. I cringe for t..."

The last salesman who called me wanted to sell gold for investment. I asked if I have to pay, I told him, I'm only interested if he give it for free. LOL.

[Jordan]

lol, there's a great line in that book that asks: "Why does an extrovert have voicemail?" The Answer: "So they don't miss a single call." "Why does an introvert have voicemail?" The answer: "So they don't have to answer the phone."

And it's so true. If I don't know who's calling, or if I don't want to talk to who's calling, I just don't answer. I figure if it's important, they'll leave a message and I can call them back... or not.

When I used to get sales people calling, I could tell because I would have to say "hello" twice before someone asnwered me. So, I'd say it once, no one answers, I'd hang up. But that's just me.

[Cleon Lee]

Jordan wrote: "lol, there's a great line in that book that asks: "Why does an extrovert have voicemail?" The Answer: "So they don't miss a single call." "Why does an introvert have voicemail?" The answer: "So the..."

No one uses voicemail in my country, and I mean no one. You either pick it or you don't. I have to answer every call in case they're customers, couriers asking about shipment & delivery, or something else that might be important.

[Blaine]

Josh wrote: "We got one last night. I cringe for them because the SO is not very patient. "

Neither am I. My first very friendly *cough* reply to their 'Do you have a minute?' is always 'Depends what you want from me' ... and I get worse if they keep trying.

And why do they all say their business name so fast you have to bite your lip to stop yourself asking if they can repeat it?

Of course, when I was younger and still very shy, I had a problem with telling people 'not interested', so I'm overcompensating now ...

[Blaine]

Jordan wrote: "So, I picked up this book (Not LeGuin) the other day, actually I made my library buy a copy, and I'm loving it. I thought I would let you all know about it, because I think a lot of people can bene..."

sounds interesting

[Josh]

Eve wrote: "Josh wrote: "In fact, if there's one thing that drives me nuts from fellow writers it's when they make comments like, "I'm not one of these people who can get out there and flog my wares."

*flushe..."

Obviously, I don't mean you! And in this context, I too have said things like that. I mean we've all seen embarrassing examples of people who have no sense when it comes to promoting their work.

BUY ME, BUY ME, BUY ME!!!!

Maybe because we're uncomfortable, to have to do it at all is to lose sense of where the boundaries are.

But, believe it or not, I'm not all that gregarious by nature. So the idea that it doesn't cost me anything to be out here chatting and promoting and pushing my work is aggravating. I've learned to do it in a way that I can live with. I get to enjoy interacting with readers and other writers, but I do the nominal, expected bit of promotion and marketing to justify time spent hanging out and blabbering with online friends.

Promotion is not easy. Period. And I think one reason why some of us are so VERY bad at it is because writers are not, by nature, social animals. We tend toward introspection. So when faced with promotion and marketing, some of us just figure what the hell, brace ourselves, and dive in without looking first.

[Josh]

Jordan wrote: "lol, there's a great line in that book that asks: "Why does an extrovert have voicemail?" The Answer: "So they don't miss a single call." "Why does an introvert have voicemail?" The answer: "So the..."

LOL. So. True. :-D

[Josh]

Blaine D. wrote: "Neither am I. My first very friendly *cough* reply to their 'Do you have a minute?' is always 'Depends what you want from me' ... and I get worse if they keep trying.
.."

It's the "keep trying" that does it.

And I do understand that these are tough economic times and people have to get the jobs they can get and that success in that field means selling the product.

But when I say, "Thank you, but we're not interested," I really do mean it.

And when they push, inevitably I hear myself saying, "Now you're starting to annoy me..." and of course they push harder because maybe I didn't understand what a faboo service they're offering.

It's a terrible time to be trying to sell unnecessary services to people who don't have money for necessary services.

[Blaine]

Josh wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Neither am I. My first very friendly *cough* reply to their 'Do you have a minute?' is always 'Depends what you want from me' ... and I get worse if they keep trying.
.."

It's..."

The keep trying and the insisting they're not trying to sell me anything when they clearly do.

Apparently 'not interested' is not in their vocabulary (or they're not allowed to let that stop them)

It's a terrible time to be trying to sell unnecessary services to people who don't have money for necessary services.

Yeah. Sometimes, very rarely, I feel sorry for them ... and then they start up the nagging again ...

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

Blaine D. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Neither am I. My first very friendly *cough* reply to their 'Do you have a minute?' is always 'Depends what you want from me' ... and I get worse if they keep trying...."

I can't shake a feather off me, imagine if I can do it with a person. My dad is much better than me and when he is exasperated, he uses a slightly surreal approach, especially when they call him on the home phone line:

Operator: Sir, you should really sign a contract with our phone company, we promise you...

Dad: I don't have a phone line.

[Cleon Lee]

Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Neither am I. My first very friendly *cough* reply to their 'Do you have a minute?' is always 'Depends what you want from me' ... and I get worse if..."

LMAO!

[Sylvia]

Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Neither am I. My first very friendly *cough* reply to their 'Do you have a minute?' is always 'Depends what you want from me' ... and I get worse if..."

LOL!

[Jordan]

Emanuela, I LOVE it! lol.

It makes me wonder though, I too, have a hard time saying no sometimes. And the thing that REALLY bugs me is companies that keep calling but don't leave a voicemail. My cellphone company is one of them. I ignore the calls until it's been the tenth call in five days. Seriously, WTF? Why can't they just leave a message and tell me what they want from me, so I understand and will call back, or try to answer it the next time they call?

Last time they did, it was to offer me a new free cell phone because I was due for one. I don't do anything fancy on my cellphone. Believe me. I talk on it, maybe once or twice a week. That's it. I don't text, or look anything up on the internet. I just don't. And I look at it, as, if the phone still works, why would I throw out a perfectly good item just to get a free "upgrade" to their latest free phone? That's just stupid. But this time the woman just wouldn't shut up. And I ended up with a new phone in the end. It's ok. But it actually does less than my old phone and didn't come in nearly the number of aswesome colors the other did. Ugh.

Anyway, enough of that rant. lol. The book is awesome so far, and I'm not quite halfway through it yet.

[Anne]

Jordan wrote: "lol, there's a great line in that book that asks: "Why does an extrovert have voicemail?" The Answer: "So they don't miss a single call." "Why does an introvert have voicemail?" The answer: "So the..."

LMAO

That's exactly why we have voicemail. But what does it mean that we never check the voicemail?

[Anne]

Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Blaine D. wrote: "Neither am I. My first very friendly *cough* reply to their 'Do you have a minute?' is always 'Depends what you want from me' ... and I get worse if..."

ROFL

[Anne]

Okay, everyone in the United States, repeat after me, "Please remove me from your call list." If you say this, they are legally obligated to remove you from their call list. They will generally stop, then, and the only thing you should hear after this is some lame disclaimer about it taking up to two weeks (snort) to do so. So mark the date on the calendar. Then report them if they go past whatever date they specified.

I'm serious; this works. It's the law.

The problem is that pre-recorded messages don't seem to understand it...

[Cleon Lee]

Anne wrote: "Okay, everyone in the United States, repeat after me, "Please remove me from your call list." If you say this, they are legally obligated to remove you from their call list. They will generally st..."

Not from USA, so no law about this, but these guys are generally come from different companies.

[K.Z.]

Josh wrote: "I mean we've all seen embarrassing examples of people who have no sense when it comes to promoting their work.

BUY ME, BUY ME, BUY ME!!!!"

Or VOTE FOR ME, VOTE FOR ME (even if you've never read my work)!!!!

I can strongly relate to your comments, Josh. Of course we need to advertise our "products," but aggressive, unremitting pimpage is a turn-off. In fact, I run from anybody who sinks teeth and fingernails into the spotlight and repeatedly drags it over him/herself. (Yikes, I wither in the spotlight!)

And ditto everything else you said. I'm ridiculously content with solitude. Most writers aren't wired for frenetic socializing and self-promotion. These kinds of casual exchanges suit us best.

[Anne]

Cleon wrote: "Anne wrote: "Okay, everyone in the United States, repeat after me, "Please remove me from your call list." If you say this, they are legally obligated to remove you from their call list. They will..."

Right, but every company has to do this, so each time you do it you get that one off your back for a while. It's a continuing process.

[K.Z.]

Emanuela ~plastic duck~ wrote: "Operator: Sir, you should really sign a contract with our phone company, we promise you...

Dad: I don't have a phone line."

Cracked me up! I'd love to meet your dad. :-D

[Oco]

Josh, actually you *were* talking about me. Heh. And I didn't take offense. It's like, have you ever caught yourself complaining about how old you are then, DUH, realized you just did so to someone 20 years your senior? Worse, they are battling a nasty age-related condition. Kind of the recognition that you've just been a bit of a self-focused dope. :D

Josh said: But, believe it or not, I'm not all that gregarious by nature. So the idea that it doesn't cost me anything to be out here chatting and promoting and pushing my work is aggravating.

Actually, I do believe that...easily. You are careful and moderated in your interactions which to me, gives me the impression of someone who thinks through first, then speaks. It is hard to be 'gregarious' (even if one is friendly) when one is weighing words like that. Or maybe I'm just projecting myself.

Great quote from the book Jordan. I shared it with my partner, in part because of an oddity: anyone who knows us would call him the introvert and me the extrovert. Yet I will hide from the phone, he answers it. We are both introverts in many ways, just they present differently. Extro/introversion is a complex thing. Doesn't make the observation any less funny, though.

Re calls - I have a particular annoyance. When I give money to a cause I believe in and they take that as license to constantly bug me for more. Grrr. I've stopped giving to several causes for that reason, which maybe isn't fair, but get a clue! If you call twenty times and there is never a pickup, shouldn't that tell you something about how that person views your calls?

[Charming]

Jordan wrote: "So, I picked up this book (Not LeGuin) the other day, actually I made my library buy a copy, and I'm loving it. I thought I would let you all know about it, because I think a lot of people can bene..."

I just requested this from the library. Thanks for the rec.

[Emanuela ~plastic duck~]

K.Z. wrote: "Cracked me up! I'd love to meet your dad. :-D"

I think mom will lease him for free :-D

[Jordan]

You're welcome Charming!

Awesome Emanuela, next time my cellphone company calls, I'll have him answer the phone.

I'm on the official government "do not call" list, and it's awesome so far. I know some people have said it doesn't work right, but so far so good for me. I just get those people who have my number because I gave it to them.

But, this is also why I love email. I can think about my response before I have to give it. Pure awesomeness. And to think it was developed for deaf people originally.

[Kari]

Josh wrote: "Jordan wrote: "Who doesn't get uncomfortable promoting and marketing?

Me.

LOL, seriously. As long as I get to do my thing, I'm 100% cool with promo, no problemo. It's when I try to fit myself inside the traditional promo boxes (like guest blogs) that things get hinky for me. I LOVE doing chats (not mail ones, tho). Hanging out with readers (and other authors) is fun. Adore twitter. I like be-bopping around GR when work isn't slaying me...Honestly, the only thing I'm not crazy about is guest blogging & facebook and I'll do those only when I have to & under the very greatest duress. (Under very rare circumstances, as in the planets must align, guest blogging isn't quite as odious and may even translate to a woo hoo for me at some point. But if I tell any of you, ever, that I'm happy guest blogging? I'm LYING.)

To me, promo is just entertaining people, though. It's just that it's entertaining with a purpose. I don't think I've ever looked at promo as selling anything. Even when I do my shameless whoring schtick, I'm not really selling a product unless you consider brand me a product (and I do). I'm mostly doing whatever I do to make people grin. I figure, if I can make people smile, laugh or snort, that's packed full of win. I've achieved my purpose. I've done my job. People remember being entertained and if my work looks at all like their sort of thing, they'll buy it. Or not. *shrug*

I'm the most shamelessly hard-selling softsell in the universe. ;-D

[Kari]

Lou wrote: "I have a land line only so I can give the number to those I don't plan to talk to. I never answer it. If it's important they can leave a message. I will either call back or not."

Voicemail is of Satan. I haven't checked ours here at home in probably 6mths and I answer (or don't answer) the phone as I see fit. Half the time, it isn't convenient so I don't.

At work, I'm a slave to voicemail, but otherwise, modern man's slavery to phones is a big fat no for me. Fine, if that's the way you want to live your life, but it annoys me when people expect me to do the same. No thanks.

[Kari]

Telemarketers get a polite no. If that doesn't work, I hang up. The end. No more aggravation. But I use caller ID to screen all my calls so not that big of an issue for me.

[Jordan]

Kari, I really like your idea of promotion. I think that's a fine idea! Of course, I'd rather go hide out under a rock, but still... lol.

[Nicole]

Josh wrote: "In fact, if there's one thing that drives me nuts from fellow writers it's when they make comments like, "I'm not one of these people who can get out there and flog my wares."

Right. While the rest of us DREAMED of being prostitutes when we grew up. ;-P "

LMAO. It's funny cause it's true... *sigh*

[Nicole]

Josh wrote: "I mean we've all seen embarrassing examples of people who have no sense when it comes to promoting their work.

BUY ME, BUY ME, BUY ME!!!!

Maybe because we're uncomfortable, to have to do it at all is to lose sense of where the boundaries are."

I think that's true for a lot of people. I also think there might be a fundamental lack of experience selling stuff period. What I mean is some of us have had day jobs were we had to get out and sell a product or promote or represent a company and so have already made basic mistakes on a smaller scale in a person-to-person way by the time we get to the worldwide forum that is the internet.

For example, I learned the hard way that not everybody thinks certain jokes are funny. (lol)

[Kaje]

Nicole wrote: "Josh wrote: "In fact, if there's one thing that drives me nuts from fellow writers it's when they make comments like, "I'm not one of these people who can get out there and flog my wares."

Right. While the rest of us DREAMED of being prostitutes when we grew up. ;-P "
..."

Ouch. S'true, I tend to think other people do this more naturally. (When I put my first book on Smashwords I did no promotion at all; didn't even have a website. I was thinking - well, if people like the blurb, they'll try it. Probably a damned good thing it was a freebie.) But I'm working on it.

[Pender]

Josh wrote: "Promotion is not easy. Period. And I think one reason why some of us are so VERY bad at it is because writers are not, by nature, social animals. We tend toward introspection. So when faced with promotion and marketing, some of us just figure what the hell, brace ourselves, and dive in without looking first."

It's good to know I'm not the only one that feels weird promoting. It goes against the grain, and against everything my parents taught me about being modest and not bragging.

[K.Z.]

I feel for anybody who's earning a living through sales. They're so maligned, usually, yet they're only trying to get by like the rest of us. That's why I hate it when my SO gets testy with telephone solicitors (or store clerks or any kind of vendor, for that matter -- except the truly obnoxious ones).

Some years ago, maybe on PBS, I saw a documentary from the late 1960s called Salesman, about door-to-door Bible peddlers. Hard life. Their stories were very poignant. (In fact, I've often thought of using this as a premise for a m/m novel.)

[Dev]

There's an interesting except about critics from Stephen Sondheim's memoir in the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/...

He thinks we shouldn't be reading critics and he's probably right.

[Josh]

Dev wrote: "There's an interesting except about critics from Stephen Sondheim's memoir in the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/...

He thinks we ..."

Especially now days when there's so much information you could spend all your days googling yourself and getting more and more confused.

[Josh]

Excellent article. I particularly agree with this:

Reading reviews of other people's work is another matter. For many readers a good critic, in whatever field, is someone they agree with or who agrees with them. For me, a good critic is a good writer. A good critic is someone who recognises and acknowledges the artist's intentions and the work's aspirations, and judges the work by them, not by what his own objectives would have been. A good critic is so impassioned about his subject that he can persuade you to attend something you'd never have imagined going to. A good critic is an entertaining read. A good critic is hard to find.

It's basically impossible to read your own reviews with any objectivity. If they're glowing, you want so desperately to believe them but fear that you've somehow tricked an otherwise canny reviewer. If they're bad you feel you're being burned at the stake by village idiots irresponsibly armed with torches.

But reading OTHER people's reviews is very useful. Those you can usually read objectively and, if the reviewer is good, you can really get insight and even learn from them. And the point about not necessarily agreeing is excellent. Or even reviews of books I have no interest in reading -- those can still be interesting and informative in a general writing sense.

[Jordan]

I don't know how I'm going to promote myself when it comes time for it. I'm not good at that kind of thing, to have to go out there and talk about myself/my work and tell people to read it, or that they should. I like the simple idea that Kaje said, even if it's not the best way to do it, that if they like the blurb they'll read it. lol, that's the introvert in me, right there.

[Kaje]

Josh wrote: "It's basically impossible to read your own reviews with any objectivity. If they're glowing, you want so desperately to believe them but fear that you've somehow tricked an otherwise canny reviewer. If they're bad you feel you're being burned at the stake by village idiots irresponsibly armed with torches.
..."

Absolutely true! And then I start feeling responsible to the reviewers in ways other than just writing the book I think is my best effort...

[Pender]

Dev wrote: "There's an interesting except about critics from Stephen Sondheim's memoir in the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/...

He thinks we ..."

Thanks, Dev. That was uplifting. It is hard not to take the bad reviews to heart, and only too easy to believe the good reviews are just people being kind and generous with their praise.

I particularly liked this part: Every time I felt unfairly trashed, I retreated to my copy of Nicolas Slonimsky's Lexicon of Musical Invective, a startling and hilarious, if discomfiting, compendium of published criticism about everyone from Beethoven to Copland.

Great idea.

[Jordan]

So, I just watched that French movie Josh suggested last night. And, lucky me, I've already returned it, and I can't remember the title to save my life. lol.

It was cute, though the ending was interesting, in that it wasn't really what I was expecting. I think I was hoping the guy would get the girl away from her boring stuck-up husband who left her alone for too long. But I'm glad he didn't get back with his girlfriend. She needed help... so did his mother. She was annoying, though I don't know how much of that was because he got so upset he kept telling her to shut up. How much of that rubbed off on me? I don't know.

It was an interesting film to attempt to watch/"read" while getting creative with an old Science magazine and wrapping xmas presents. lol. I had fun though, that's for sure!

[Jordan]

Oh yeah, and today Wonder Boys came in, so with luck, I'll be watching that tonight. I don't remember where we were talking about that, but since they were both related to writing, I'm just assuming it was this thread.

[Josh]

Jordan wrote: "I don't know how I'm going to promote myself when it comes time for it. I'm not good at that kind of thing, to have to go out there and talk about myself/my work and tell people to read it, or that..."

All promotion is not the same. It doesn't all have to be embarrassing popping up on every list you belong to exhorting people to read your book, comment on your blog, see your new review, blah, blah, blah. Most of that stuff falls into the abyss anyway.

Think about the number of authors whose name you recognize from their promotional efforts, but whose books you rarely if ever buy.


Way too many of us forget that name recognition is not enough.

I think someone who has done an especially good job of promotion -- someone who I suspect is not naturally happy or comfortable promoting herself -- is our own Jo Myles.

[Josh]

Pender wrote: "Dev wrote: "There's an interesting except about critics from Stephen Sondheim's memoir in the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2011/...

H..."

I have a book on Georgette Heyer, one of my favorite writers (and a huge early influence), and a lot of it is media and reviews she received. The reviews are both aggravating and incredibly comforting. Because she received so many *awful,* dismissive reviews from big papers for various books. The very kind of thing we all hear: all her characters are the same, all her plots are the same, all her stories are the same, etc. etc.

And you know what, there IS a certain sameness to her work. Nowdays we call that branding and it is a key component to a successful writing career.