Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Writing Questions for Josh
ns wrote: "Anne wrote: "Okay, ns, so I can go to Wordpress and tell them I want a domain name then use their templates to set up a static blog to use as a webpage. Right?Seriously, pretend I'm from a planet..."
Okay, that looks pretty good, Powweb. Except I have no real clue what I'm doing. Sigh. Looks like I need to be getting' me an education.
Anne wrote: "ns wrote: "Anne wrote: "Okay, ns, so I can go to Wordpress and tell them I want a domain name then use their templates to set up a static blog to use as a webpage. Right?Seriously, pretend I'm fr..."
If you tell me exactly what you want, I'll try and do this a little more coherently :). Seriously. I'm trying to do five different things simultaneously here and probably confusing you even more.
ns wrote: "Anne wrote: "ns wrote: "Anne wrote: "Okay, ns, so I can go to Wordpress and tell them I want a domain name then use their templates to set up a static blog to use as a webpage. Right?Seriously, p..."
I don't know exactly what I want, but when I do, I'll PM you.
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Jordan, thanks! Sorry I took so long to reply -- semester has started back up, so I'm going to have less time to play here. :)It's good to know that there is freedom in how your page is designed. I went to look at it, and it has a very elegant and manageable layout. :)
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Good luck on your semester Oco! Sometimes I wish I was back in school. I had more time to write back then without a full time job! *sigh*
Couldn't it be that the sentence ''semester has started back up'' means that she is teaching? A non native speaker asks...
I actually agree with what 'they say'. Black is elegant, but when presented with a light on dark (and white on black is the worst) background for a web page, I hit the back button. My eyes just don't have the patience to try to read it. Same with all caps writing and fancy fonts.Uh, yeah. I teach. At a college. And I *wish* I had a 'normal' fulltime job sometimes because during semesters (given I do take my summers off, but with a pay cut), I'm working approx 60-70 hrs per week. Especially since the economic downturn. I *try* to not work on Sundays but am often not successful. My writing takes a serious hit during semesters and my on-line activity drops to nearly nil. Actually, I'm feeling hopeful this semester because I made a few minor changes to my scheduling and the way I do grading that I'm hoping will ease my load. Keep your fingers crossed for me!
But!! Summers off! Totally worth it. And I do love my job. It feeds an important part of me that writing doesn't. So weep not for this one. :) At least no more than you do for yourself. We all wish we could be the idle rich sometimes, non? :)
Antonella - as a point of language, if you're interested, I was being vague. It could have meant either student or faculty. :) I get in the habit of being vague on-line, but that bit of info about me has long been out of the bag.
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Ocotillo wrote: "Antonella - as a point of language, if you're interested, I was being vague. It could have meant either student or faculty. :) I get in the habit of being vague on-line, but that bit of info about me has long been out of the bag."Thank you for your explanation. I often wonder if I missed something because of my non-native English.
IMO grading was the worse part of teaching ;-). I'm glad I don't have to do it anymore.
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Behold! I have actually written that essay, if any of youse want to see how it turned out.
http://www.reviewsbyjessewave.com/201...
It's about how you should have stuff happen in your stories.
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Behold! I have actually written that essay, if any o..."
Terrific post.
It's certainly true that the big scenes take a lot of energy to write.
Which is actually kind of funny when you think about it. How can something take more energy to write than something else? And yet some scenes, some stories, are exhausting to write.
Thank you for sharing the link to the article. It is well written and enjoyable also for readers. You made an interesting point. I realized how is it that I find some books boring ;-)
Nicole wrote: "Hey beautiful people! A few weeks ago, when we were discussing hooks I was asking around for writing topics for a guest column at Jessewave's. Behold! I have actually written that essay, if any o..."
Great article, Nicole. I can't thank you and Josh enough for sharing your thoughts and help us improve! I am in a hurry for the deadline though, so I have to postpone commenting for now.
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I think maybe its because it's because some scenes stretch the old skill set to its absolute limit or maybe even beyond the existing limit. That's all I can figure.
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Thanks Antonella. I've thought a lot about boringness and how it can be avoided and I'm always happy to share. :)
Thanks Nicole!! Especially liked:
- the idea that every POV character needs an 'equivalent' (I'm shortening, people, go read the article to get it right) character arc. Which, I *think* I usually do that intuitively, but having it said that plainly makes me have another way to go back to my stories to see if that might be part of lingering problems I sense.
- the idea of naming scenes to demonstrate to yourself that they have a purpose. Though I suppose naming it "Coyo thinks about how lonely his life is" rather misses the point, right? (haha).
What Ginn said: "maybe it’s their very importance that makes them so intimidating to us authors." and you responded "like stage fright"? YES. I do that. In spades. I catch myself pacing nervously before writing a pivotal scene, biting my lip, going to make coffee. Laugh at myself when I realize what I'm doing. In fact, that one comment rings more true for me than any other (on the topic of why people avoid difficult scenes, I mean).
I was interested in the POV talk (among comments, as well), and I have a couple comments/questions. Doesn't George R.R. Martin's (wildly popular) A Song of Fire and Ice series inundate us with semi-random POV's that come and go without any real character arc? If you're familiar with the books, I'd be interested in your take on that in light of this conversation. Is it that experts can break these rules when they do it well? Or do his books actually suck in that way, but he does something else well enough to suck in a strong fan base... or what? Actually, this is probably sacrilege, but I read the first two a while back, and. Grew bored. :) So now you have me wondering if your discussion about POV fits in with my boredom. (Keep in mind that I may have gotten the facts wrong, but I don't think so).
I primarily use either two 3rd person POV's (the two main protags in romance) or a single first person POV in my stories. I haven't yet felt compelled to stray from that. But sometimes I wonder if there are rules of thumb to help us decide which might be more effective in any given circumstance. I am right now totally rewriting a story that I'd initially written in two 3rds -- changing it to first person. Both characters have personal arcs, but I decided I wanted the second person to remain a bit of a mystery (which means I'm making the arc of the non POV character less obvious, maybe because I'm not as skilled as I'd like to be). I sure would like to learn to get it right the first time, and wonder if you might have rules of thumb.
I've heard (seen) countless authors say things along the lines of "I knew once I tried writing it the other way that it was right". Unfortunately, my 'muse' isn't quite so adept. S/he leaves me with the hard work (lazy thing). Ie., my creative process works by sweat and plyers more than bright flashes of "the characters figured it out for me!".
Anyway. Yeah. Thanks for a great post. I find myself thinking you must teach (or have taught) writing before. :)
Sorry this got so long. Maybe I should've responded there. :/ Hope this is okay.
Hi Oco,
Maybe you've seen it, but Freece (you know, the one writing Captive Prince) was using Martin's A Game of Thrones for a summer writing group/workshop discussion and had some interesting points about his writing structure. Did you you see her LJ?
Maybe you've seen it, but Freece (you know, the one writing Captive Prince) was using Martin's A Game of Thrones for a summer writing group/workshop discussion and had some interesting points about his writing structure. Did you you see her LJ?
I did. And for various reasons (time being one of them) decided NOT to participate. I also feel no compulsion to pick that series back up just now (though I might try again later). BY THE WAY. The story I'm referring to rewriting in 1st is indeed the one you read for me. Call it an experiment. I gave up my goal of writing an effective anti-hero's POV, deciding I could give it a go some other time. I think it is shaping up to be better in First.
Let me know how it turns out! I think it will be fantastic in 1st and is a story where the tension really lends itself to doing it that way. :)
I read the first 3 books in Martin's series, growing more frustrated and bored with them as I went along and then skimmed the 4th. That was almost 15 years ago and while I don't remember the POV issue, I know what I didn't like: too many randomly shifting story lines, too little investment in the critical characters and a nihilistic approach to his world building. I don't intend to go back to it either.
I read the first 3 books in Martin's series, growing more frustrated and bored with them as I went along and then skimmed the 4th. That was almost 15 years ago and while I don't remember the POV issue, I know what I didn't like: too many randomly shifting story lines, too little investment in the critical characters and a nihilistic approach to his world building. I don't intend to go back to it either.
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btw, I think you need to write that plot you started. I wanted to read the rest of that phone conversation with his mother, and find out how it ends!
Thought-provoking article, Nicole. I really need to become more thoughtful in my writing instead of this info dump thing that I've been doing, and I like some of your tips for making that happen. Will go back and scan my current WIP and see if I can name the scenes.
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Thanks. I appreciate the kind words.
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I think so. I haven't read these books. But you know there's always an exception to everything. Plus, we don't really know yet if this series of his works out (in a critical sense) cause it isn't done yet.
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You're welcome. Just FYI--I have never taught writing before. I have taught, like 100+ people to cook, but I've never formally taught anybody to write. :)
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Let me know how that goes. I'm really curious.
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ha! kinda. :)
But if you could always go with the "Coyo starts talking to imaginary people, gets caught by some little kid, and then realizes how lonely his life truly is" scene. Then something would happen.
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http://romanceuniversity.org/2011/08/...
And may I add that these are sure-fire tips for writing believable female characters as well?
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Actually, no. :-D
Smiling but quite serious. A writer's characters are always real to the writer because the writer is instinctively filling in the blanks. The character lives full fleshed and fully clothed (well...fully fleshed) in the writer's imagination. It's filling in the blanks for the reader that makes the character come alive.
Josh wrote: "Visiting Romance University today and sharing my thoughts today on making your male characters believable.http://romanceuniversity.org/2011/08/......"
Great post and you're right, it would undoubtedly pay to put a little more time into character well-roundedness. As a writer, the characters do seem to spring up fully-formed and it's hard to realize that the reader won't share the same fleshed-out image unless I give it to them a little more explicitly.
Just a quick note.The article is truly great and helpful.
Btw, thinking about what food the character likes is a great idea too. I always imagine what my character likes too.
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Yes. And what a shock it is to us writers. ;-D
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The article is truly great and helpful.
Btw, thinking about what food the character likes is a great idea too. I always imagine what my character likes too."
Yes. Sports, food, clothes, car...most m/m writers remember those (hopefully!) but it's surprising to me how often the fundamental things that define us -- our personal philosophy -- is left out of character development.
Again, I'm not advocating preaching to readers, just that if as the writer you don't know these things about the character, something is lacking.
Josh wrote: "Yes. And what a shock it is to us writers. ;-D"
*snicker*
I read an amazing back and forth between a reader and an author on a review thread a while back. The reader/reviewer was accusing the author of implied racism because all of the "bad guys", or at least the morally corrupt folks were dark skinned and all of the "heroes" or those saving the world (this was a fantasy) were white. The author was insisting he wasn't racist and hadn't put any such dynamic in the book. The reviewer basically said, "I don't care if you meant to or not, it's there. Believe me."
I suspect the same thing happens with how an author sees a character and how readers respond to him.
*snicker*
I read an amazing back and forth between a reader and an author on a review thread a while back. The reader/reviewer was accusing the author of implied racism because all of the "bad guys", or at least the morally corrupt folks were dark skinned and all of the "heroes" or those saving the world (this was a fantasy) were white. The author was insisting he wasn't racist and hadn't put any such dynamic in the book. The reviewer basically said, "I don't care if you meant to or not, it's there. Believe me."
I suspect the same thing happens with how an author sees a character and how readers respond to him.
Kate Mc. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Yes. And what a shock it is to us writers. ;-D"*snicker*
I read an amazing back and forth between a reader and an author on a review thread a while back. The reader/reviewer was ..."
It's unconscious bias. Smaller guys bottoms, larger guys tops. We write that way because we imagine them that way. Not because we're size-ist. LOL.
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*snicker*
I read an amazing back and forth between a reader and an author on a review thread a while back. The reader/reviewer was ..."
It's so easy to misread other people's intentions or to draw specious conclusions based on partial information -- or simply a lack of imagination.
Sometimes as a writer you have to make certain choices based on the fact that you've made so many other previous choices -- am I never going to have a female villain? Am I never going to have a villain be a person of a different ethnic from my own? Sooner or later you have to tread into water than might get you accused of something, if only because to NOT tread that far makes your work too predictable and formulaic.
But this is where stereotypes come in. The gay best friend. Or, alternatively, the spunky gal best friend. The white villains in Shaft. The black villainess in James Bond. (Wow!)
I think we've moved a long way away from the ethnic villains in pulp fiction. Far enough away that we should be equal opportunity employers when it comes to heroism or villainy. But no matter what choices you make, someone is always going to misread you and draw insulting conclusions.
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Cleon wrote: "Kate Mc. wrote: "Josh wrote: "Yes. And what a shock it is to us writers. ;-D"
*snicker*
I read an amazing back and forth between a reader and an author on a review thread a while back. The rea..."
I know it's unconscious bias. Just like you see an amazing amount of heteronormative behavior in m/m because, hello, a lot of the writers are straight or mostly straight, and live in a society where social norms favor straight. I still tend to enjoy books most where these expected filters get yanked and some of those assumptions get upended. Wakes me up. ;-)
*snicker*
I read an amazing back and forth between a reader and an author on a review thread a while back. The rea..."
I know it's unconscious bias. Just like you see an amazing amount of heteronormative behavior in m/m because, hello, a lot of the writers are straight or mostly straight, and live in a society where social norms favor straight. I still tend to enjoy books most where these expected filters get yanked and some of those assumptions get upended. Wakes me up. ;-)
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Josh wrote: "True. Of course part of these "heternormative" behaviors go much deeper than that. Our belief in one perfect soul mate isn't heteronormative. It taps into mythology and fairytales and legends...th..."Jung has some interesting theories concerning collective unconsciousness and archetypes, if anyone is interested.
Kate Mc. wrote: "I still tend to enjoy books most where these expected filters get yanked and some of those assumptions get upended. Wakes me up. ;-) "And yet I know I don't want all the M/M writers dutifully making the small guy the top either. I'm sure it would kill Mary Calmes for one thing. :-)
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No, but it doesn't hurt to occasionally mix it up.
Charming wrote: "Kate Mc. wrote: "I still tend to enjoy books most where these expected filters get yanked and some of those assumptions get upended. Wakes me up. ;-) "
And yet I know I don't want all the M/M writ..."
:D Well then it wouldn't really be shaking things up, but more like being contrarian because everyone else is.
And yet I know I don't want all the M/M writ..."
:D Well then it wouldn't really be shaking things up, but more like being contrarian because everyone else is.
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And yet I know I don't want..."
I think you have to write what moves you, which is why we do all end up repeating ourselves. It's not that I never noticed I write certain dynamics, but those are the ones that excite me. To this day, those are the ones that move me to write. So I have to hope that I pick up as many new readers as I lose those who get bored and move on.
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Creativity, imagination...it's an erratic magic.
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http://romanceuniversity.org/2011/08/......"
Cool list! I tried to comment there, but I think I may have failed. :)
Kate Mc. wrote: "I read an amazing back and forth between a reader and an author on a review thread a while back. The reader/reviewer was ..."Ouch.
This might actually be a little more complex than it what it seems like at first blush. I've not seen the thread, so don't know, but you said it is fantasy, and I'm suspicious that the villains in question are 'dark elves' as opposed to the good guys -- perhaps 'light' elves (or wood elves or whatever). More than perhaps any other genre, fantasy has some long-standing traditions about short-hand for characteristics. When I say 'elf' you think nature, pointy ears, big eyes, slight of build, elegant, long-lived, 'good' beings that are usually fair-haired. If you are an avid reader of fantasy, there are also the 'dark elves'. These are a different race of elves that are built similarly, but have dark (dusky) skin, dark hair and eyes, often live underground and are traditionally associated with more malign forces. {Edit after conversation below: aka "The Drow", description and drawings here: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki... }
Hmm. This is a problem if you are an author of fantasy who want to write about a war of good vs. bad elves. It may well be that the association there is racist in its origins. After all, it has been argued that our picture of gnomes is derived from ones that were strongly anti-Semitic. Lots of long-lived fantasy associations probably have some pretty racist origins.
So is the author who uses them racist? And maybe more importantly for this group, if you want to write fantasy, how do you handle this? Because the woman is right -- as it stands, there is a racism in there. But it may well be that the worst the author did was not notice that there is racism in the original concept and thus he propagated it. But if this is the case, what is he supposed to do? His readers rely on him to provide them with images that they can readily interpret. We all do that with our fiction, just that (I think) fantasy (and scifi and paranormal) rely on it more than most others (otherwise these books would need massive infodumps).
My own tack is to look at something like this as an opportunity/plot bunny. Ie., I'd think -- oooh! I'm going to write a fantasy with light and dark elves where we find out that all is not as we thought, and it'll question our very idea of good/evil.
But that is the sort of thing I like to write, and not all authors do. One could argue that at the very least, this guy needs to inject a little more three-dimensionality into his characters, and I'd agree, but that is another topic. :)
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http://romanceuniversity.org/2011/08/...-..."
That's too bad. I always enjoy your thoughts!
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
Books mentioned in this topic
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Julie Smith (other topics)Bernard Cornwell (other topics)
Robin McKinley (other topics)
Tove Jansson (other topics)
Astrid Lindgren (other topics)
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Seriously, pretend I'm from a planet with not tec..."
Anne, you might want to start with WordPress but then move to an ISP. You can select a website name and have WordPress host it for you initially, but if the blog structure and other WP constraints become too onerous, you can move your domain to any ISP you want.
You can then move to something like Powweb (which is what I use). I suggest taking a quick look at this site as an example.
Note, you can move your domain later, it does require a bit of waiting for a few months to completely transfer ownership from Wordpress but you can get the ISP website underway at any point with the same webname.
So it's not a fatal decision to start with a hosted blog and a basic website there and then move.