Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion
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Writing Questions for Josh
Anita wrote: "I used to print out fanfic in arial narrow 6 ... to save paper, but still be able to read in bed (before I had my sony ereader)"Oh my...LOL. Wasn't fanfic, but you reminded me of when I was working in nonfic. I would do a mind-numbing amount of research, a good bit of it in esoteric books & doctoral theses nobody had ever heard of that would take me *forever* to find (was a niche field too, LOL), but I did a lot of that research online, right? A couple of my online sources were extremely heavy on philosophy, incredibly dense but also very thorough. Anyway, I'd change it all over into verdana 5pt and even then (depending on subject) the stack of research mats would be like an inch thick. I'd digest the lot and turn it into a 20pp position paper.
Miracle I didn't go blind trying to read print that tiny, LOL.
Changing the font is a cool idea. I might try that, for those times when I'm so in the weeds that I can't jar loose. Read: usually, these days.Comic Sans is a great font. It used to be my standby font for slides at professional talks -- EASY to read, even easier than arial IMO, and much easier than serif fonts. I generally dislike people using nifty fonts in slides (because most nifty fonts are weird reading), but comic is special.
@LC, re starting in 1st present -- I doubt I'd ever do that; I'd probably have too much trouble getting past my intense dislike of reading 1st present, but dang -- that's a really cool idea. Getting the juices flowing, yes, but also getting right into the mind of your character.
Yeah, but I have sets of go-to fonts I use for specific application groups. Comic Sans belongs to the kiddos. I wouldn't be able to divorce myself from the kiddie mindset. My ms would end up with Pokemon clipart, LOL.
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As for my favorite font, since I actually have one, I can comment! It's Georgia for some reason. I love using it for chapter headings, page headings, and titles. I love it!
Josh, I understand that "Snowball in Hell" is currently unavailable as a standalone edition, right?
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It's being re-released April 1st from Carina Press (no fooling).
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MmCrits/
There's a lot to still be worked out, obviously, but let's just start by seeing how many we've got.
Kari had expressed concern with readers being part of the group. I'm not sure. I do get her concern entirely. I don't like appearing half-dressed in public either, and that's kind of what it's like sharing rough drafts in all their unedited ugliness.
But I think readers who know the genre and are willing and able to critique might well be a necessity. Most of the writers I know don't have a lot of time or energy for critique--certainly not when they're rushing to deadline--so to make this work I'm thinking we'd need a handful of people *not* working on their own projects but experienced within the genre.
I mean, that's just my thought. It's really kind of a group decision.
Anyway, the group is there and we'll see over the next few days how much interest there is -- we also need a couple of people to be moderators.
The only hard and fast rule that I see so far is that everyone who joins must be a participant -- either writing or critiquing (or both). No innocent bystanders.
Josh wrote: "Okay. About the critique group idea. I've set up a private group for us at yahoo.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MmCrits/
There's a lot to still be worked out, obviously, but let's just start ..."
Tempting, so tempting ...
but I'm still in two minds about it.
I'd love to be part of a critique group, but I'm not good with that sort of commitment.
I'm going to think on it for a while before deciding.
Josh wrote: "Okay. About the critique group idea. I've set up a private group for us at yahoo.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MmCrits/
There's a lot to still be worked out, obviously, but let's just start ..."
Hi Josh, This sounds like something I'd be interested in. My debut novel will be coming out in May, and I'm always willing to learn from others and hopefully be able to give advice from a newbies perspective.
I've also read hundreds in the m/m genre and run a site where I read a new author every week. Since it's a suggestion based site I never know what I will be reading next. One week sci-fi, the next mystery, the next BDSM and on and on whatever the suggestion is that week. I think I could give an honest, constructive critique on most sub genres.
It's going to be tough....I'm usually more of a lurker but I'd give it a try. Writing and Critiquing.
I went to the site and it's invitation only so if you still have openings let me know.
Thanks
Josh wrote: Okay. About the critique group idea. I've set up a private group for us at yahoo. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MmCrits/
Oooh! I'll sign up. I enjoying critiquing and I write both M/M and F/F. (But I promise to post only the M/M stuff so as not to squick anyone with female body parts!)
I think I'm JRosemaria on Yahoo--that's who you'll receive a join request from.
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We'll see how it goes, but it should be fun and exciting!
Thanks Josh!
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We want to keep it small, of course, but not so small that it becomes strenuous to keep up with it!
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MmCrits/
There's a lot to still be worked out, obviously, but let's ju..."
Sure, we'll just see how it goes, Anita. We want to stay small and productive. The idea is to encourage but to keep the focus realistic and professional. Which basically boils down to being honest in the most diplomatic way possible (while accepting that yours is not the only opinion).
I actually sent a few chapters to one of my beta readers (who is a reader, not a writer, LOL) recently...Worked out rather well, better than I'd anticipated.Anyway, I'm in. :D
Josh wrote: "Okay. About the critique group idea. I've set up a private group for us at yahoo."I'm in for critiquing. I assume it will be done in installments of a chapter or two at a time and not a whole story. And this would be novels/short stories not poetry?
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Anyway, I'm in. :D"
Terrific!
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I'm in for critiquing. I assume it will be done in installments of a chapter or two at a time and no..."
No poetry. And nothing but m/m. Anything from short story to novel is fine by me.
It's set up so that the authors can each have a folder of their WIP and within that folder can be the various projects -- and the various critiques.
I guess it's possible someone could dump a whole novel in -- and it's probably something to be discussed.
I thought the separate folders/files allowed those who don't particularly want a public discussion, to still take part. Not everyone's geared to the group format when it comes to critique. Although I think we all toughen up as we go along.
The list itself can be used for writing questions or for open discussion of stories that authors don't mind being dissected in public.
Josh wrote: "Sure, we'll just see how it goes, Anita. We want to stay small and productive. The idea is to encourage but to keep the focus realistic and professional. Which basically boils down to being honest in the most diplomatic way possible (while accepting that yours is not the only opinion)."
Mine is not the only opinion? *shock* :p
Anyway, I just couldn't put this out of my mind ... it must be Saturday ... and I decided to give it a go.
I'm about to start the rewrite/re-edit of my book anyway, so why not take the plunge?
I hope my ability to critique lives up to everyone's expectations ... not to mention my writing ... *hides behind desk*.
My Yahoo alias is Cayendi, btw.
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MINE is the only opinion. I forgot to add that part. ;-D
Josh wrote: "No poetry. And nothing but m/m. Anything from short story to novel is fine by me. "I figured it was all m/m given the title of the group *g*
Phew on the no poetry - you really don't want me critiquing that...
The group is a great idea and I look forward to it. Your rule of everyone must participate - great rule, but do you mean we have to critique everything that gets posted? Or x amount of participation in a month? There will be stuff that some people can't read, squicks or just life getting in the way of things. So how is participation judged? When does someone not meet it and get booted? Do you get a warning first? Three strikes and your out?
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(And we'll move the discussion from here at Goodreads to MmCrits.)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MmCrits/
Now resuming regular Goodreads programming.
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No. Nothing that rigid. Levels of partcipation are going to vary depending on what's going on in any one person's life. What we want is everyone involved and participating. No observers.
There will be stuff that some people can't read, squicks or just life getting in the way of things. So how is participation judged? When does someone not meet it and get booted? Do you get a warning first? Three strikes and your out?
I really don't think it's going to be necessary to boot anyone! ;-) I'm guessing members may come and go, but it's a very small, intimate little group -- and the plan is to keep that way. 20 members max, I think.
I think it's like anything, the more members put into it, the more they'll get out of it.
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http://looseidauthors.blogspot.com/20...
Josh wrote: "Posted today on writing angst over at Loose Ends blogspot.http://looseidauthors.blogspot.com/20..."
Josh, cannot read your link because Blogger Terms of Service will not fully open and allow me to agree to them. Is there another way in?
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http://looseidauthors.blogspot.com/20..."
Josh, cannot read your link because Blogger Terms of Ser..."
How odd!
http://looseidauthors.blogspot.com/
Josh wrote: "Susan wrote: "Josh wrote: "Posted today on writing angst over at Loose Ends blogspot.http://looseidauthors.blogspot.com/20..."
Josh, cannot read your link because Blogge..."
I agree. Odd and frustrating. The new link is the same. I see 4 lines of the Terms of Service agreement thru the word 'agreement' and rest of the screen is black, so I have nothing to check off and agree to. I wonder if others are having this problem. Is it Blogger or me?
Mod
http://looseidauthors.blogspot.com/20..."
Josh, cannot read your link b..."
I wonder what the heck it is? I can't think of a way around it.
Susan, if you're using IE, switch to Mozilla Firefox or vice versa. That sometimes irons out these little hiccups.
Josh wrote: "Susan wrote: "Josh wrote: "Susan wrote: "Josh wrote: "Posted today on writing angst over at Loose Ends blogspot.http://looseidauthors.blogspot.com/20..."
Josh, cannot re..."
If you try to access the link is Blogger fully open for you?
Kari wrote: "Susan, if you're using IE, switch to Mozilla Firefox or vice versa. That sometimes irons out these little hiccups."I am sorry to say I have no idea what you are referring to, but thanks.
Susan wrote: "Kari wrote: "Susan, if you're using IE, switch to Mozilla Firefox or vice versa. That sometimes irons out these little hiccups."I am sorry to say I have no idea what you are referring to, but t..."
LOL. Oops. Sorry.
If you're using Internet Explorer to get on the internet, you can sometimes make pages work/load if you use a different browser (for example, Mozilla Firefox) instead.
You can download and install Firefox here
Kari wrote: "Susan wrote: "Kari wrote: "Susan, if you're using IE, switch to Mozilla Firefox or vice versa. That sometimes irons out these little hiccups."I am sorry to say I have no idea what you are referri..."
I will try that at some point. What I ended up doing was opening my company computer and logging on to Goodreads there. Blogger opened for me so I'm OK right now, happily reading what Josh wrote. Thanks for your help.
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Josh wrote: "I have no trouble accessing it from any of those links."Thanks Josh. See my reply to Kari, above.
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I think angst definitely makes for a richer romance, but it's about balance and pacing. A love that comes too easily seems trivial -- we believe that best things have to be worked for -- but you can also reach a point (the reader can, anyway) when the effort seems work than it's worth. "It" being the Happily Ever After. Especially if what you're working so hard for is maybe just a Happy For Now.
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Too true about the happy for now ending. I've written things where my characters worked hard for something only to not have that HEA, and my readers were pissed! lol. Thankfully, that was only fanfic, and I wouldn't do that in a real published book.
Something else though, that I do like as an ending is one of hope for a happier future. You don't SAY they lived HEA, but you hint at it rather strongly. And that's a good one especially with traumatized characters who have a lot to work through to get their HEA, I think.
But yeah, I always say, if you want something bad enough, you have to work for it, no matter what it is! But, if you don't get that thing in the end, what's the point of making a novel about it? Unless it's more about a lesson learned, in which case... you've most likely no longer got a romance novel.
Oh, but I like the HFN so much, as both a writer and a reader. For one, it's so much more realistic. A character who has been traumatized...They're not going to be able to wrap their issues up in a neat pretty bow and tra la la along quickly or easily. Even after the lightbulb moment, when everything starts to fit and make sense. Even when they want to be able to do that...they can't. If the story ends with that tight ball of edgy nerves unraveling absurdly fast? I hate it. If a character's been through the ringer, that struggle isn't going to magically cure itself instantly.For another...Hello sequel. The character who isn't yet able to glue all the broken pieces together? Will do it in the sequel. With the love interest's help. Or...not. Because the love interest is going to get frustrated at our shattered hero when he regresses (and we all regress, just part of the healing process). As enthralling as the first part of that journey can be, the second leg to the HEA can be so much fuller and richer because this time, the characters have to walk the talk. Prove that love is a verb, not just a fuzzy emotion leading us around by our gonads.
That said...I think there are varying degrees to the HFN and how readers respond to the HFN will vary by how strong that HFN is. If the HFN doesn't include a very strong sense that the characters will ultimately make it work in spite of those dangling issues even if we don't yet know how they'll achieve that...When you're dealing with a HFN ending, you need that payoff. It can't be all uncertainty. I think it's that -- rather than the HFN ending itself -- that pisses readers off. You don't have to wrap it up in a neat bow, but the HEA had better be cemented on the horizon. The reader should be reasonably confident that the characters will attain it.
Mod
Of course, a traumatized character cannot have everything wrapped up in a neat bow at the end. There will always be issues, no matter how small that will keep coming back up. Well, heck, even with untraumatized characters life after falling in love is not all a honeymoon stage. Fights will occur, and other things will get in the way of love, but hopefully, they stay together and can be happy no matter what.
I'm not sure if HFN is similar to hope for the HEA in the far future or not, though I think it might be. But for sure, traumatized people do not suddenly have an epiphany, get a loving boyfriend, and have everything turn out right asap in the end.
Mod
I know what you mean. I do think a lot of new writers struggle with this, though. The most satisfying romances (I mean the ones that build a hardcore readership that will stick with you through thick and thin) are a careful balance of fantasy and realism. And it's the *fantasy* element that does the heavy lifting and toting. I see so many writers, especially male writers, stumble over that one.
Realism is NOT the main ingredient of a romance novel. People get enough realism in their day to day lives. It's the perception of realism rather than realism itself, that readers want. There's a key, key difference.
As for sequels, you don't write a sequel because the ending of the previous novel wasn't satisfying -- you write a sequel because the journey/story is unfinished. Sometimes
there's not really enough journey/story left to justify an entire book or the problems between the couple are mostly contrived in an effort to make it look like there's still real trouble ahead. I see way too many tagged-on sequels in this genre where there really isn't material for a sequel, but the first book was popular and the writer hates to let the characters go, and readers are asking for more. (And that last one is very hard to resist -- even when you know better.)
If you're halfway competent readers will always be happy to revisit characters, but if the story isn't really there, they'll also be the first to say so in reviews. ;-) There's nothing more disappointing for a reader than an anticipated sequel that doesn't live up to expectation.
You've either got enough story left or you haven't, but not every problem remaining between a couple is meaty or interesting enough for a sequel. Watching a couple of guys work through some remaining issues is usually not enough unless there are one heck of a lot of valid issues left -- or the story is part of a larger story (a mystery or adventure series, for example). Not many series that are simply about a relationship work well, IMHO.
Josh wrote: "but you can also reach a point (the reader can, anyway) when the effort seems work than it's worth. "It" being the Happily Ever After. Especially if what you're working so hard for is maybe just a Happy For Now. ..."Amen to that.
Josh wrote: "Oh, but I like the HFN so much, as both a writer and a reader. For one, it's so much more realistic.I know what you mean. I do think a lot of new writers struggle with this, though. The most sa..."
A good example of both a HFN and a set up for sequel would be your own H&M series. SKHE wasn't an HEA, the bond between Kit and JX was tenuous at best. This uncertainty flowed into the second book, setting up for relationship issue resolution work ...and pesky murders and such.
JCP works this same magic with her PsyCops series - if anyone needs work, it's Vic with his issues. It's a wonderful character development series - with mysterious happenings, conspiracies, ghosts, and the supernatual element all along for the ride.
Marie Sexton has done a nice job with her CODA series. By having so many character - diverse characters in different places in their lives and experiences, she can offer tastes of relationship conflict from each couple without stumbling along trying to make conflict happen by focusing on one couple.
There's also a difference between writing a sequel because readers want it and planning that sequel in advance. If you've got everything already story/character-arced ahead, before the HFN part 1 releases, you'll already know there's enough meat in the plot & character development for the HEA continuation.For me, it isn't about a less than satisfying end, per se. It's just different stages in the journey. The HFN is where the characters meet and (by story's end) commit to one another. In the HEA continuation, you see the characters make that commitment to one another work in spite of the obstacles that may have been left dangling in the HFN leg of the journey. It's where the shoe leather meets the pavement. In the HFN, the reader should be reasonably confident they'll make it. In the HEA, you see them actually do that. The HFN makes the promise. The HEA shows how the promise is kept.
At least, that's how I've written my HFNs. By the end of Spoils, for instance, readers should be reasonably confident that Micah and Eli are going to be okay. In spite of that cloud of doom on their immediate horizon and how screwed up they still are. They'll find a way to make it work. They've committed to making it work. Plunder just shows that struggle in all its edgy detail.
As for realism vs fantasy...That's what tends to get me into trouble as a writer, LOL. I think a high degree of realism can work and work very well in romance, though. My Lovely Wicked is a prime example. Everybody who reads it says something about how authentic the characters feel to them, which I adore because I took a hell of a lot of chances to convey that sense of authenticity. I wanted readers to feel like this could be happening right on their street. To people they know. It's realism -- just a different reality most of us live inside. It's that one-step-removed element that preserves the fantasy element while still delivering strong realistic characters that readers develop that tight empathy with.
Merith wrote: "JCP works this same magic with her PsyCops series - if anyone needs work, it's Vic with his issues. It's a wonderful character development series - with mysterious happenings, conspiracies, ghosts, and the supernatual element all along for the ride. "JCP is an excellent example. Vic is a huge mess when the story starts (frankly not the kind of character I'd usually be drawn to) but (1) he has *really* good reasons; (2) he is really funny about it; and (3) he is getting better.
Also, while Vic and Jacob have their issues, they are really pretty solid and getting more so (though there is that issue at the end of GhosTV . . ). The plots are more based on outside threats. It would be beyond tiresome if they had to have a Relationship Crisis every book.
Here's a writing/publishing question...my bookclub read "Diary of a Sex Fiend" last month. My neighbor ordered the paperback and I downloaded onto Kindle and both versions had numerous typos. So many that sometimes I would have to back up and reread entire paragraphs to figure out what word was intended. Soooo, with whom should I be pissed? The publisher? Do they not have people to try to catch these things? The author? Don't you get a chance to preview the work before it's published. It was horribly distracting and frankly the book needed all the help it could get.
Hey Josh! I'm not sure if this is the right section for this question nor do I really expect you to answer it if it is too personal or weirdly stalkerish.You have stated in the past that Josh Lanyon is a pen name. Have you written anything else under a different name? If you have, would you be willing to share that name and book titles?
I'm sure I am not the only one who would be interested in reading something else you have written, even if it is a completely different genre.
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I'm reading this now, and I agree that JCP is showing a nice balance -- the characters -- and their relationship -- grow with each book, and the plots remain interesting.
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Sometimes the author is the publisher, but generally the publisher is the one responsible for formatting. Some of the things readers are finding and calling typos (multiple questionmarks, etc.) are formatting issues -- things that occur when the files are translated into other ebook formats.
And as far as that stuff goes, no, authors don't have anything to do with it and have no way of even knowing about it until readers bring it to their attention.
When it comes to basic copyediting, yes, authors are part of that process. I have to say that not all the corrections always make it into the final draft -- it's disconcerting, but it does happen -- and not everything gets caught in the copyediting phase.
And of course there are epubs and micro epubs that don't do much in the way of copyediting. Sometimes authors don't find out about that until it's too late.
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Q&A with Josh Lanyon
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I've just never had a writing group that liked the same things I do. And none of my writing friends whom I regularly hang out with are into m/m, so they wouldn't read it either. Now that I have a better handle on what I like to write, and what I want to publish, a group just for that would be perfect, and would help me feel like I was getting somewhere, you know?