Writing Passionates discussion
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Point of Veiw Question
I completely agree with both of you, Saved by Grace and Cali. God is there. There's no reason why we should try to ignore it, he's there. Just because he doesn't fix everything for all 6.5 billion people in the world does not mean he doesn't exist. Creationism is the only explanation for how we became that makes sense. I mean, come on, how exactly does nothing explode?
Mod
Okay. So Kenzie, you say, "God is there. There's no reason why we should try to ignore it, he's there. Just because he doesn't fix everything for all 6.5 billion people in the world does not mean he doesn't exist." Alright, so what reason do we have to believe that he DOES exist? Just bcuz the Bible says so?
I mean, really. That's easy for you to say. We're all privileged americans who have food, shelter, family, and all that. If you were some starving orphan living on the streets in some far-away country, would you have the same point of view? Would you say, "Hmm. God must hate me. But I don't really mind, because he's nice to other people!" I don't get it.
I'm not trying to say that God singles people out and puts some people in higher postitions than others. Yes there are starving orphans and men and women in other countries that aren't being helped, but that isn't God's fault. Them starving is not proof that God doesn't exist.
I do CARE that there are starving children, I really do. I just don't think that it should be God's problem. He created the world, he laid down the rules. We either live by them or we don't. No one person is of any greater worth than another.
I don't think starving orphans would think that way. Just because God doesn't help them doesn't mean he doesn't love them! He does! He just can't help everyone. Would it be fair for him to save the life of one orphan when, in the same moment, another orphan dies? I don't think so.
God is relying upon the goodwill of people like you and I who are, as you put it, 'privileged Americans who have food, shelter, family, and all that' to help them. To donate to foundations and things to save these little children and men and women who are dying every day.
If you didn't already know this, God did not mean for the world to live in such misery. God had a perfect world created, one without death, destruction, or sin. That was destroyed when Adam and Eve at the forbidden fruit after being tempted by the snake (satan). He did not mean for these little children to be dying, but he laid down the rules and he has to follow them as well.
Plus, you shouldn't really feel sorry for these kids. (Don't take this the wrong way) But I envy some of them, for they get to leave the Earth (hopefully) knowing that God loves them, that Jesus died to save them from their sins, and that they are going to have a place in heaven where they will be loved and cared for. Is it so bad for them to die now than to die later living a life of misery if they get to go to heaven knowing the glory and power of God?
Sorry for ranting. I just get so fueled up with debates.
Mod
Right. What was I thinking? I'm so jealous of these poor starving children! Gee, I wish I was one of them! Yay! I want to die!
WHAT?! I'm sorry, but that's just HORRIBLE. Just try going up to some little dying orphan and say to them, "Awww, you're so lucky. You get to die and go to heaven." I'm pretty sure they would very willingly trade places with you. But do they have that choice? NO.
NO, I didn't mean for you to take it like that! I'm not saying I want to die, I'm just saying that I'm jelous they get to go to heaven to be with God so much sooner than I do.Ugh! Maybe I shouldn't have posted. I knew you were going to take it wrong. I guess I'm bad at explaining things clearly.
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I really, really don't believe in God or heaven, and I highly doubt that I ever will. End of story.
Okay, okay. Maybe I shouldn't have said anything like that. I don't want to die. Let's just get that straight. I want to be in heaven when the time is right, I just feel so bad about missing out on it at the moment. That's all.And you're right. Neither of us is going to fold, there's no point in debating it any more.
Just wanted to be clear you knew I didn't want to die.
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Oh ... well I didn't take personal offence. I just figured I'd explained it wrong. I have a habit of doing that.... XD
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Can't we all just be friends?
lol, Anyone having problems with pov's on their stories???
lol, Anyone having problems with pov's on their stories???
Of course we're friends! We were just having a healthy debate among writers.
lol . . . i think this topic's dead now. pov, where did we leave off last in that???
Don't know exactly. I think someone was talking about second person view. How they've never heard of it since their teacher never mentioned it.
I gotta brand new attitude and i'm gonna wear it tongight . . . So so what? i'm still a rock star i've got my right moves. . . i'm gonna show u tonight! I'm alright! I'm just fine! and your tool so so what? I am a rock star, i don't want you tonight.
i luv this song!!!
i luv this song!!!
Mod
OK, sorry to bring us back to our debate, and sorry if I offend anyone, but:I think it was a combination of both. Could it be possible that God created the Big Bang? Yes. Could it be possible that the Big Bang created God? Yes, again.
It could be possible, also, that it was neither of them. But answers just lead to more questions. If God created the world, what created God? What caused the Big Bang if there was just nothingness?
And also, I don't really like the bible, because it has a lot of stuff that could be viewed in tons of different ways. Like when it says, 'one man may not sleep with another man' or whatever, could they mean there's not supposed to be gays, or people aren't supposed to sleep with each other, or people aren't supposed to cheat on each other? There can be a lot of different meanings for one phrase.
Here's my philosophy:
If praying makes you feel good, pray. If not praying makes you feel good, don't pray.
If going to church makes you feel good, do it. If it doesn't, don't.
If there is a God, then I believe that they wouldn't want to be in our business all the time.
Plus, there are so many different religions. If God is not going to let you go to Heaven if you don't believe in him, isn't that a little unfair? Say you grew up in China, where everyone has to be Buddhist. You'd never have the chance to believe, but God would put you in Hell anyway? That doesn't make sense to me.
Anyway, POV!
PS I LOVE THAT SONG THAT YOU WERE SINGING CALI!!!!
Mod
and yes. good song. XD
but i know this crush ain't going away away aaay going away aya ayayeah, has it ever crossed your mind . .. is there more . .. cuz i believe that we can make this into something that will last last forever do you ever think when your all alone all that we can be where this thing can go? am i crazy or falling in love is it real or just another crush do u catch a breath when i look at u r u holding back like the way you do? cuz i'm trying trying to walk away cuz i know this crush ain't going away. going away.
luv, this song and listening to it rite now
luv, this song and listening to it rite now
I think don't quote me on this! But I think that the bible says somewhere that if you never get a chance to hear about him you're automatically put in heaven. Just like a baby, if you are born a still birth, then you automatically go into heaven. I think it's that you're allowed into heaven automatically until you get to the age where you understand that you've done wrong, where you can comprehend that God has set rules down and that you've broken them and need to be saved.
Mod
Not to try to start to argument again, but I am going to state my own opinion.
I do believe in god. I'm not sure why, I just do. It seems that there are too many coincidences for there NOT to be a god. Just my own opinion.
However, I don't believe that he created the universe or the earth. I believe in the big bang.
Just to explain it to you guys, earth DID NOT DIRECTLY RESULT FROM THE BIG BANG! The universe was around for a while before earth was created.
You see, what happened was this:
A big nebula did some funky stuff and started to become a star. There was a bunch of left over chunks of rock floating around the sun. They collided and formed massive planetesimals. Some of them were larger(jupiter, saturn, neptune, uranus), and others were rocky and small (mercury venus earth mars)
That was how the earth was created. If you want, you can go talk to my eight grade science textbook.
After that, I don't really know what happen, but the sun took, oh, 5000 (or 5 million, not sure which) years to cool off a bit, in order to be the right temperature to sustain life.
Then, somehow, some one-celled organisms appeared on earth, which split and made more cells, and eventually, they grew bigger and more complex, but one cell can't get that big, so the organisms got bigger and bigger. (or somewhere along these lines is what I have been taught.)
As to how the organisms got here...
my guess is that there was just the right combination of chemicals to form the cell. After all, the cells of organisms that small are not complex. Pretty much there is a nucleus, cytoplasm, and cytoplasm membrane.
After a time, hominoids showed up, which was about 7(? at most) million years ago. Over the next few million years, we evolved even more, eventually developing into homo sapiens. After that, we left Africa and spread throughout the world. This, of course, opposes the multi-regionalism theroy, which is somewhat disproved by the similarities in Human DNA (actually fruit flys can have more DNA difference than humans of different races.) Of course, it opposes creationism as well, which I don't believe for various reasons.
So, in the end, I believe in god, but not all the stories. Actually, I don't believe most of the stories. So I suppose that I would be a secular Catholic. How odd.
Mod
as for the thing about God ... well, I don't think that's fair. Say I grow up in a Buddhist family, and I'm taught not to believe in God. I'm supposed to say, "Oh no! What am I doing? I have to start believing in God or I'm going to go to Hell!" ??? I think it all depends on how your family raises you. And you shouldn't expect people to convert to your religion. It's cruel.
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Sorry, Brigid, but I'm not a huge David Archuleta fan. (did I spell his name right?)It doesn't matter to me what religion you are. I'm just stating what I am. You can believe anything you want, I'm not going to try to change it, and I'm not going to discriminate against you for it. You have your beliefs, I have mine.
Now can we please get off this topic? It's creating a lot more tension then there need's be.
Yeah, do what makes you feel good as long as it doesn't hurt other people.And I agree with Brigid too. Like, I live in Utah, so all these missionaries are always knocking on our door, trying to convert us. I've gone to a Mormon church. I know it's their religion to convert people, but I don't believe in that. Be an Amish person.
Don't care if people will burn in Hell if you don't convert them. XD
So, I guess I'd be a Wiccan, 'cause I believe in Karma and such.
yeah i agree. lets get off this topik.How bout we talk about orange juice?
Mod
ANYWAY ... fair enough. believe what you want. i just prefer not to have a religion. although you are kind of indirectly saying that i'm not going to heaven ... not trying to create tension here, but really that's what you're saying. of course, i don't believe in heaven anyway so i guess it doesn't matter.
whatever. straying away from this topic ... :-/
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uh. orange juice? XD
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NO! I didn't mean that, Brigid! -smack forehead- Why oh why do I always make everything worse.Oh, I'm sure it exists. Ask Roni about it, she's writing in second person point of view. It's really cool to read.
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Second person speaks directly to the audience. Read the prologue to The Epic of Gilgamesh. That part is in second person.
And fyi, just a cool fact, that is the first written story that we have record of. Not one of the first. THE first. I think it deserves to be read, and I want to read the whole thing, not just the two little blurbs that they chose to put in my lit book. My lit book which has an upside down and backwards cover. (long story short: it was either rebound wrong or printed wrong. and what appears to be the back from the outside is the front on the inside, and vice versa.)
Anyway, like I said, a whole lot of english teachers know nothing about some things that are not often encountered, like second person POV. or they know and they don't explain it, because they think that our pretty little heads can't handle it.
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but not really.
I'm getting my brain tied into knots and turned into sawdust. I better go finish my homework before my intellect is entirely gone.
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Brigid-
The most significant point of the whole discussion of evolution vs. intelligent design is this: The one thing science has no legitimate explanation for is how life actually began/started on earth. They can only theorize that it "came from some comet" or "bang" the cell magically appeared and started to divide and was intelligent enough to evolve on its own. Ask any honest scientist and they will say, they really do not know how life began, only theory. A "theory" that in order to believe in you must have faith.
Which makes more sense? Having faith in a big bang that magically started it all? Having faith in a Higher Power that set everything in such a miraculous perfect order. Either way you have to exercise faith in something that started it all. Either way you have to have faith in or believe in something that cannot be scientifically proven.
Even some scientists will tell you that because of the complexity of the human body and nature itself, it makes more sense to believe an Intelligent Being started it all.
written by my dad, approved by me.
The most significant point of the whole discussion of evolution vs. intelligent design is this: The one thing science has no legitimate explanation for is how life actually began/started on earth. They can only theorize that it "came from some comet" or "bang" the cell magically appeared and started to divide and was intelligent enough to evolve on its own. Ask any honest scientist and they will say, they really do not know how life began, only theory. A "theory" that in order to believe in you must have faith.
Which makes more sense? Having faith in a big bang that magically started it all? Having faith in a Higher Power that set everything in such a miraculous perfect order. Either way you have to exercise faith in something that started it all. Either way you have to have faith in or believe in something that cannot be scientifically proven.
Even some scientists will tell you that because of the complexity of the human body and nature itself, it makes more sense to believe an Intelligent Being started it all.
written by my dad, approved by me.
Mod
Oh sweet peas and fries! We're NEVER going to get off this topic, are we?
Mod
Okay, being quiet now ... anyone having trouble with point of view?
i brought it up, i admit it, but u guys are the ones that started posting stuff after it. . .
I agree w/everything Sella said