Gardener's Group discussion
Overall Reading Goals&Book Chats
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What Did You Just Finish, What Are You Reading Now & What Books Have You Brought Home Recently? (Spoilers Possible)
Terri, I just met a step-brother of sorts from Luckenbach TX. He is the son-in-law of my mom's third husband's daughter. Nice guy. Christian, and his wife is of Jewish background. My mom's third husband, my stepdad, escaped Nazi Germany at 16 when the family's business was stolen by the Nazis (Nuremberg laws of 1938). Anyway, I had never met them until my stepdad's 90th birthday party. (They refused to have anything to do with my mom, hence her kids, since my mom was "the other woman".) Wish I had known them years ago.
Wow--sounds like quite an interesting family. He's from Luckenbach? I've never met someone who actually lived there. My sister and I drove over there one day because she asked me if I wanted to see it (she knew I loved the Willie Nelson song about it). Anyway when we got there I laughed. There's a bar/saloon, post office general store and barbecue and that's it. I was amazed. Never saw any houses. Just grass, dirt and those four buildings. I got a kick out of it.
Yeah, grew up in a fundamentalist christian home, in Luckenbach TX, married a Jewish woman, and lived in Chicago! Quite the story! He was tall, very good looking, blonde in his youth. She was short, heavy, and dark. He was in to math/ physics, she was in to music, art, social work. Who would have thought they would be happily married for decades?
Terri wrote: "My dream as a child was to live in one place and stay there. I hated moving from school to school, always being the new kid. But now I have so many places in my memories that it's kind of neat. ..."I think there are only two growing zones in Minnesota, 3 and 4. I count myself lucky to be in 4 and still attempt and get by with growing a few zone 5 plants in protected areas. The killer here is if we have an open winter or a big thaw at some point and then go way below zero, a lot of plants just can't withstand it. It seems to me not only every state, but every yard has it's own microclimate depending on protection, amount of sunlight and moisture etc.
I'm starting the Lord of the Rings Triology. One of those things I've intended to read for years and am finally getting around to doing.
What fun, Cheryl! Great cold winter reading. My yard definitely has microclimates in it. There is a dry rock wall about five feet from the south side of the house, with a narrow cement walkway beneath it. That bed is always much warmer than the other side of the yard! Under the tree is much cooler, and has more wind, than up near the house. The wind funnels between my house and the massive church next door, so my side yard is pleasantly breezy during the summer, but can be a bit chilly other times.
I'm about to start a short story entitled "Deep End" by JG Ballard for Thursday's 2nd (of 3) short story evening bookclub meetup. We're meeting @ the diner downtown instead of the library so I'm really looking forward to that because I can have a cuppa tea or coffee while we're meeting (and perhaps a bite of desert) - we can only have bottled water @ the library and sometimes I need a pick me up once we get past 8pm lol!
Cheryl S. wrote: ""The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest" arrived today and I can't wait to get into it. This is book 3 in Stieg Larsson's series about Elizabeth Salander, a very unusual protagonist, part genius, p..."I recently finished the trilogy and loved it, the first book took a little getting through but once in, well worth the effort. The third will not disappoint. Enjoy!
I finished the short story entitled "Deep End" for the 2nd of our evening bookclub's Winter short story venture; from The Best Short Stories of J.G. Ballard, 1 of 5 stars.
I'm finding the "Lord of the Rings Trilogy" slow going. So much description of brush and rock and not much action. It seems to be picking up a bit now in the last half of the first book so I'll stick with it for the time being.
I'm reading "Come Back" a memoir of a mother trying to help her daughter overcome addiction by sending her to a treatment facility for a year. It's awesome!I'm also reading a book on Abraham Lincoln entitled "Team of Rivals". I've only read two chapters but so far its very interesting. Apparently, at least so far in the book, Lincoln did not believe in the hereafter/heaven/hell/God. I'm curious to see if his views changed later in life. I know his wife used to have seances in the White House but I can't remember if he attended them.
Terri,That is a great book about Lincoln. Good for teaching leadership skills! I have read quite a bit about Lincoln and Mary, since they both had mood disorders. She was bipolar, he had major depression/ suicidal thoughts.
Cheryl,
Yes, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is a bit slow going. Lots of detail. I found The Hobbit much easier to read, but because of all the "fans" felt I needed to finish the trilogy. It took me several tries to get in to it, and I finally just had to set my mind to push in, and then it got more enjoyable.
I just finished a biography of Heinreich Himmler. Pretty horrifying how he was convinced what he was doing was the right and moral thing! Now am reading about the other side of his work- his victim's biography.
I didn't realize Lincoln suffered from depression and suicidal thoughts. I knew he was prone to melancholy which is quite different. Yes I knew Mary had mental illness, just didn't know she was bi-polar. Very sad. She lost so much in her lifetime.
Cheryl S. wrote: "I'm finding the "Lord of the Rings Trilogy" slow going. So much description of brush and rock and not much action. It seems to be picking up a bit now in the last half of the first book so I'll s..."My husband has read the trilogy many times since he was a child and The Hobbit as well and still loves them. He's reading the trilogy again now actually. They are slow going reads but I think Tolkien did that on purpose to really draw you into the world he created.
Good point, Jo, about Tolkien.Terri, Lincoln was so depressed at one time that his friends seriously considered institutionalizing him at one time. In that day and age, most people, once institutionalized, stayed there until they died. What would our world have been like if he had not had good friends willing to just be with him to keep him safe during that time. In this day and age, a history like that would keep him from being elected, probably even to mayor, much less president. Look at what happened in the 60s. Can't recall the name. But a pres candidate was outed to his psychiatric history and was immediately removed from the running! Churchill was also severely depressed a great deal of the time. Yet look at all he was able to accomplish! It just takes some support, fortitude, self-awareness, and acceptance!
Wow! I remember the guy you're talking about, can't remember his name at the moment but I believe he was running with Nixon. You know, Lincoln lost his mother at a young age, his father was less than supportive (he didn't agree with Lincoln spending so much time reading as opposed to working with his hands), his first love died at I believe 24, his two young sons died in the white house right? Who WOULDN'T be depressed? Lord. It would be a horrible world indeed if all the depressed people had been gathered up and institutionalized. Just think of all the painters, writers, etc. that would have joined Lincoln.
Terri, have you read Kay Redfield Jamison's book, Touched with Fire: Manic-Depressive Illness and the Artistic Temperament?? It is a fascinating book. I must admit, though, that when I read it, I realized that Jamison HAD to be bipolar. She knew it too well, used the words WE use, not the PhDs use, even though she has a PhD. She later came out of the closet and shared her history with Bipolar disorder.
Terri wrote: "I'm reading "Come Back" a memoir of a mother trying to help her daughter overcome addiction by sending her to a treatment facility for a year. It's awesome!I'm also reading a book on Abraham Lin..."
The Lincoln book sounds very interesting. I'm always fascinated about people who have a huge impact on others--such as a president.
Jo wrote: "Cheryl S. wrote: "I'm finding the "Lord of the Rings Trilogy" slow going. So much description of brush and rock and not much action. It seems to be picking up a bit now in the last half of the fi..."I'm getting more into it as I go on. Maybe I should have read "The Hobbit" first.
I'll have to ask my husband about The Hobbit (when to read it, if it needs to be read first), I know he's read it but I will say that in the 2 or 3 times he's read the trilogy since we've been together, he's read The Hobbit after, not before. (I'll have to ask him why!) I read The Hobbit in grade school, 7th? There were 3 of us reading it because we were far ahead of the others. I remember Loving it but I don't remember anything else now about the book.
Cheryl and Jo: I have the Lord of the Rings trilogy on my TBR list--I haven't had the stamina to tackle it yet. I've been told it can be very dry in the beginning. My brother read the Hobbit in the 7th grade as well and he was mesmerized. It was the first book I ever recall seeing him devour.
Miriam: Interesting about the Touched with Fire book--I have wanted to read it for some time but as my niece has bi-polar and depression runs in our family I've been afraid of what it might dredge up in me. I know, Bwak, bwak bwak bwak! Interesting that she felt she had to hide her own struggle with it.
Terri, I suspect that enough people like me guessed, and she felt supported to talk about her own illness. The discrimination against those of us with the illness is still strong. We aren't far from when Hitler started his extermination programs on the mentally ill before others. The discrimination is especially strong within the mental health field, believe it or not. Most practitioners have a very low opinion of their clients, and don't really believe in any sort of recovery (not cure). It is thanks to people like her that have talked about their illness that others are starting to understand that one can live a full and productive life in spite of having bipolar illness. I have four siblings, all professionals, and all have dealt with the disorder, although not as severely as my disorder, and NONE of them tell anyone. I am the exception, and a bit of an embarassment to them. But I studied psychology/ psychiatry long before I was diagnosed, and never suspected that I was bipolar since the descriptions were all so negative. Here I was, at 16 a student at one of the hardest schools in the country (U of Chicago) so I couldn't have that terrible disorder. But I did! So I felt the need to talk about it in a more positive manner so others can understand it better. There is lots that is good about the disorder. I think that is why I like Touched with Fire so much. It talks about how our brains are different, and how that difference can be very beneficial at times. When I look at a problem, unlike most people, I don't narrow in on a solution. I look outward, bringing in information from other areas, to solve the problem. That is why "we" are so innovative. We see things expansively, so can see interconnections that others don't notice. That helps with developing theories, solving problems, and of course being creative. I suspect that most people who love the cottage garden look of using found objects to support plants, etc. have a touch of this (or have suffered deprivation in their history, and learned to make do). There, Jo, I brought it back to gardening!
Ha! Cute! Ok, so that book sounds enlightening rather than tormenting--I'll have to give it a whirl.
In think my best friend would like Touched by Fire. She is bi-polar (and makes no secret of it) and very successful in life - she used to run her own charter company. My grandfather had it, but it wasn't treated very successfully and the treatments were horrendous.I find it very sad that people don't value other people just for being human and seeing that everyone is entitled to quality of life. Children can't make it for themselves, neither can old people and its accepted that we must do the best for them that we can, but sadly that doesn't seem to extend to people born with or who acquire something devastatiing mentally.
In rehab counseling, we call that "interdependence". Every one in the world is interdependent with others. Rehab counselers stress that it is okay for people to be dependent at times, since others depend on them for other things at times. One of the problems with the mental health system is that it really teaches dependence, not interdependence. It isn't rehabilitative in outlook. It makes folks think they have nothing to give to others, and that "it" is all about them. Makes for very needy, selfish people. Then they are condemned for being that way. The push from advocates is for a system that stresses interdependence, and focuses on recovery and giving back in whatever way you are able, including by being a peer support specialist. That is someone who has a mental illness, is in recovery, and helps others with mental illnesses after training. Medical treatments are getting better, but they still have problems. And they definitely do not fix everything. A good part of recovery is learning how to manage the residual symptoms. Education is very important. By knowing that hypersexuality is a symptom, (excessive horniness) one is better able to make decisions about one's behavior. Whereas if you don't know, you tend to just act on the feelings (must be love!). Knowing that exercise improves energy and motivation, one can MAKE oneself do it when lacking in energy and motivation. Knowing the importance of sleep, one monitors and does something when sleep issues appear. Recovery requires constant internal monitoring and adjustment.
I can tell you some concrete examples of the discrimination I have experienced, and I function much better than many people. I can only imagine what it is like for those who are more severely symptomatic than I am! Social discrimination is probably the hardest to accept- it makes one awfully lonely at times. But I have not been given jobs due to discrimination, so blatent that I could have sued and easily won. And I cannot get life insurance at all. We are considered too high a risk. (Fifteen percent of people with bipolar disorder eventually suicide.)
I started The Rock Orchard by Paula Wall last night and LOL'D several times in just 10 pages! Hope it continues to be as good.
I am alternating between two histories, Flight from the Reich, and Scourge of the Swaztika. But mostly I am rearranging/ purging since I only have two more days providing day care for my grandchildren. Monday they start with the new day care so I can get serious about getting a job. I have piles of toys, blankets, bottles, etc. that I had gotten for them. Also eliminating the TV since I never watch TV or movies. Just not my thing. I had some movies for them, like the Aristocats, Mary Poppins (he loves), Lilo and Stitch, and the Sound of Music (liked the music, but too long for him). Getting rid of all of that! PURGE is my word for the year!
Miriam - I know what you mean by treatment encouraging dependence (and self-centeredness). I grew up seeing three schizophrenics fairly regularly. One mostly lived in the mental home but was acquainted with the family and was always begging money. He was quite capable of working for at least a part-time job but just wouldn't get one. Everyone tried to talk to him but the mental home had really institutionalised him. One of the other schizophrenics was my mother's best friend's daughter, she was in and out of the (same, the only) mental home and was as lazy as they come. Wouldn't do anything at all when she was with her mother. But then she met the love of her life - the other schizophrenic, married him and they got a flat and lived on benefits. Wouldn't do anything except come round to ask for money occasionally.
All of these people had been in the mental home on and off for many years but their illness was well-controlled. As long as they had a place to sleep, food, no housework and benefits to spend when they went out which was whenever they wanted, they didn't see any point in working. It was a real shame as they kept themselves excluded from society.
Yes! Exactly! (Sorry Jo, I tried to get it back on track.) What is the very first question you are asked when you met someone new. "What do you do?" When you take away a chance for an appropriate answer, then there person asking the question has no where to go conversationally. So even if it is a volunteer job, everyone needs to DO something (as well as have someone to love and something to believe in!). But our system encourages this dependence. As for the social security system, it is set up so that ANY attempt to get employment actually COSTS the client money! I know so many people who tried to get a part time job, to work their way off of help, and then lost their food stamps and rental assistance so they were forced to quit so they had a place to live and food to eat! Social Security is trying to make it easier for people to work their way off SS benefits, but there is no coordination with the housing or food stamp programs, and that is where the problems are now occuring. Franklin Roosevelt had it right during the depression, with the work programs. People felt good about the help they were receiving, and were able to work their way back in to "real" jobs. Sheltered workshops aren't the answer either. Because they are producing a product or providing a service, there is no incentive to graduate people. They hang on to the ones who could have regular jobs, discouraging them from leaving, since they are the ones who help them make enough/ provide a decent service to exist!
On a personal note, my middle son inherited my disorder, and his dad's social phobia. Add to that the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder he has from his dad's abuse, and being born with clubbed feet, he is unable to work. I could have gotten SS benefits for him from about age 5, but knowing the way the system is, I tried to encourage him to make it without them. He tried for many years, but every effort to work just made the social phobia worse. So now he is on disability. We both keep hoping that some day he will be able to get a job, maybe doing something on the computer from home. Brilliant kid. It is very frustrating. He can't get out of his apartment most days, even to take the trash out.
Miriam wrote: "Terri, I suspect that enough people like me guessed, and she felt supported to talk about her own illness. The discrimination against those of us with the illness is still strong. We aren't far fro..."Kari Fisher and Debbie Reynolds were on Oprah one day this past week discussing Kari's bipolar disorder. I know she had it but it was very interesting to hear about her struggle to accept it and Debbie's struggle to understand her daughter.
Miriam wrote: "On a personal note, my middle son inherited my disorder, and his dad's social phobia. Add to that the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder he has from his dad's abuse, and being born with clubbed feet, h..."This makes me want to scream and weep.
Thanks for the support Terri and Cheryl. It has been heartbreaking. He is such a great kid, but has so many problems. But the good thing is he does not drink or use drugs, which would just make those problems 100 times worse! Painfully honest, incredibly bright, articulate on the computer, but even with me he has trouble getting his thoughts out with his anxiety about talking. Constantly clears his throat, the anxiety makes it spasm. I have weeped a lot over him. And had to bite my tongue when well meaning people say, "if he would just..."! Not very many people understand how hard it is for him to even check his mail.
There are many celebrities and even politicians that are now starting to come forward. Patty Duke was the first one to come forward with her bipolar disorder. Patrick Kennedy just spoke out about his struggle with depression. He is trying to get other Congressmen/women to understand the needs. It is tough on families, and friends, to understand the limitations and give the right kind of support. One of the things I taught a lot about was how to let family members know what helps individual clients, and what doesn't help. Most clients need to check out their perceptions, and it can be very helpful. Often family can notice mood changes before the client can, and deciding beforehand how to communicate that can help. So instead of "aren't you bitchy today!" a family member could say "I notice that you are less energetic and more anxious today".Oh, I was to be on Oprah's show, but they ran out of time before they got to me. It was a show on depression, and since my depressions started at age 4, they wanted me on to talk about it. But there was so much audience participation just on the adult segment that it never got to depression in kids. But I did get to go to Chicago and stay in a hotel on Oprah, sit in the green room, get my makeup done, and meet Oprah. I had my kids with me too, and she actually pinched my youngest son's checks, (6y.o.) and said "you are the cutest thing I have ever seen!" I have never ever seen anyone do a two handed check pinch before! It was fun, but also disappointing. I had been on TV twice before, once to promote a support group I started in Idaho, and once a half hour local talk show on depression.
Sorry you didn't get to go on the show, but what an exciting time you had.I'm a fellow depression sufferer and have weird symptoms but too depressing to discuss. In fact I don't even get that far usually in admitting to it.
Oprah, when she is hol and not being Oprah-with-a-public is not the nicest of people.
Sorry to hear that about Oprah--her show is one of the few TV shows I like to watch. Very uplifting. Miriam, sorry you missed out on the show, but at least you got the royal treatment! How fun!
I may have already asked you this Miriam, but did you read "Nobody's Child?" or see the movie with Marlo Thomas? I thought that was a very inspirational story.
Terri, definitely didn't see the movie, and don't think I read the book, although probably would if I had run across it (the topic hits close to home).Petra, I would recommend the Depression/ Bipolar Support Alliance for information on mood disorders and their treatment. They are and always have been a recovery oriented group of fellow "sufferers". This is the group that I started a chapter of in Idaho, back in the eighties. Now you can get lots of information and resources online. They have really helpful things like how to chart your moods, how to make accomodations in your lifestyle to minimize moodswings. There is so much that is helpful that the doctors don't bother to tell you about. They just push meds, and the meds don't do it all.
www.dbsaliiance.org
Miriam wrote: "Terri, definitely didn't see the movie, and don't think I read the book, although probably would if I had run across it (the topic hits close to home).Petra, I would recommend the Depression/ B..."
Thank you for the link. I live on a very tiny island where there are no mental health facilities (except for the courts to send drug addicts!) and I have never had anything successful. To be honest I really don't like discussing it. I could possibly be a bit more open in real life one-to-one but not online, its just not 'me'. But that said, I will definitely check out your link.
Petra, or anyone else, for that matter,miriam@netins.net
I have had my home phone number, address, and email published for support groups, on my business cards that I passed out to clients and mental health staff, etc, and never had a problem. I was in an article in Newsweek magazine about my family's depression in four generations, and it noted the town of 200 people in Idaho where I lived. I got lots of mail and some phone calls from that, and only ONE letter was negative (how dare I pass down the gene, overlooking the high intelligence and creativity that goes along with it. I responded to this nazi as such, and he never wrote back.). So I don't have a problem letting people contact me.
I recently brought home "Amish Grace", "Lion Of Ireland", "The Gargoyle", "The Spies of Warsaw", "Sunset Park", "The Unexpected Light--Travels in Afghanastan" and "The Hummingbird's Daughter".I'm 2/3 done with Hummingbird and love it, a little fantansy and magic with humor and a darn good story, great characters.
"Amish Grace" and "Sunset Park" are my March book club selections.
I finished "The Fellowship of the Ring" and will not be reading the rest of the trilogy. The story just didn't catch my imagination or hold my interest.
Sounds like some great titled there! I'm about finished with The Rock Garden by Paula Walls which I just love then moving on to Night by Ellie Wiesel for bookclub this Thursday evening. A re-read for me but it's the revised edition which I haven't read and I'm not sure I'll be able to finish it; I haven't been wanting to read dark or sad/upsetting books since being in the hospital in July and all that happened so I'm not sure how I'll react to this yet.
Jo: I totally understand not wanting to read the sad/upsetting books. And Night is not an easy read. I thought it was written so well but it was almost too painful to finish it.Right now I'm reading I Dreamed of Africa which I started before my MIL passed away and have decided to finish it even though I've heard it's sad, it's also supposed to be inspiring. I could use Inspiring.
I'm also reading Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln which is very interesting. I love reading historical books. It's so big it'll probably take me at least a month to finish it.
I'm reading Body Hunters: How the Drug Industry Tests Its Products On the World's Poorest Patients which is a much heavier book than I thought. It is quite a frightening exposé of the American drug industry and how the FDA and the Government all conspire to keep it as the highest profit industry in the country. Also Little Princes: One Man's Promise to Bring Home the Lost Children of Nepal which is interesting and not at all heavy.
Just finished rereading A Thread of Graceand realized that I am the only person who has checked it out from my local library since 2005. Wonder if they will sell it to me. Is a good one for my shelf.
I'm glad to hear it was good as I added it to my TBR pile when I saw you were reading it.
Gardener's Group
Books mentioned in this topic
The Hare With Amber Eyes: A Family's Century of Art and Loss (other topics)The Hidden Half of Nature: The Microbial Roots of Life and Health (other topics)
White Beech: The Rainforest Years (other topics)
Orchids of Britain and Ireland (other topics)
A Garden with House Attached (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
D.E. Stevenson (other topics)Margaret George (other topics)
Bernd Heinrich (other topics)
Adriana Trigiani (other topics)
Konrad Lorenz (other topics)
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My kids have lived in the same house/town since they were born and they're always saying they wish we'd have moved around. LOL! Can't win.