Lay vs. Lie

[Walter]

I ran into this today and realized I did not know which one was proper. The context: "It is in these relationships that his genius x" Now, should X= lay or lie? And what's the rule?

Thanks.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

It is in these relationships that his genius lies.

OR

It WAS in these relationships that his genius lay.

It is all a matter of tense.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

By the way....welcome Walter....why don't you run over to Introductions and tell us about yourself?

[Ken, Moderator]

The killer on this ridiculous pair of verbs is that the past tense of LIE (to recline) is LAY. The past tense of LAY (to place something) is LAID. You see the trouble. Some people are helped by the transitive/intransitive thing, but I worked hard to ignore it throughout school. Intransitive of me, ain't it?

Oh. And welcome, Walter. Nice idea for a column. Thanks for laying one on us, I mean. (Or is it lying one on us...?)

[Walter]

'Lies' was my first instinct but then 'lay' jumped up and wouldn't go away.

[Ruth]

Debbie's right.

R

[Ken, Moderator]

Donna... it's "go figurative" language. Personification, and all that.

[Tyler]

What's especially maddening to me is that I can't tell immediately whether what I want to say requires the transitive or intransitive in regard to these two. I have never been able to think of a shorthand rule to guide that choice.

[[deleted user]]

HELP! I have let all of my ELA rules fall out of my brain-- what is this transitive/intransitive business? I don't even remember these terms :(

Phrases (noun, adjective, adverb) gave me heck as a freshman in high school-- my grandmother sent me grammar books for Christmas.

No wonder I did my Science homework first every night ...

[Ruth]

Transitive requires an object. You do something to something. You break the cup. Break is a transitive verb.

Intransitive you can handle alone. You smile. Smile is an intransitive verb.

Present tense transitive: I lay the book on the table.
Past tense transitive: I laid the book on the table.

Present tense intransitive: I lie on the bed.
Past tense intransitive: I lay on the bed.

[[deleted user]]

The explanation and examples are good and much appreciated Ruth. Now why couldn't my ELA teachers do that when I was in high school?

[Ken, Moderator]

You didn't go to Ruth High School (you apparently went to Ruthless High School). Your loss (until now).

Transitively (if it's of any object),
NE

[Lea]

This is only tangentially related, but any thoughts on may vs. might?

[Ken, Moderator]

I wish I may, I wish I might.

A nursery rhyme line from somewhere, no?

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

Starlight starbright
First star I see tonight
Wish I may, wish I might
Have the wish I wish tonight.

It really works. I wished for a little sister on the first star when I was 9 and 9 months later.....

[Lea]

But why "wish I may" AND "wish I might"? Is it redundant? Or is there a subtle distinction that I'm missing?

[Ken, Moderator]

Well, "may" indicates permission and "can" ability. But might? Certainly that's different. You might and you might not (depending on how mighty you are), and you need not get ANYone's permission.

[Debbie, sardonic princess of cheerfulness]

There is a subtle distinction in there....wish I may means "I am allowed to wish" and wish I might means "so I might wish if I feel like it". Jst another roundabout way of repeating what NE said!

[Lea]

Does "might" also imply that something that could have happened but did not? So, for instance, "Sally might have been the world's greatest basketball player had she been more than 5 feet tall?"