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2. HF - MASTER AND COMMANDER - CHAPTER 2 (42- 94) (05/10/10 - 05/16/10) ~ No spoilers, please
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This week we discuss Chapter 2, pages 42 to 94 in my copy. This chapter is filled with details about what goes into outfitting a ship for a voyage. We also meet some new characters and learn more about the background of Maturin and the strengths and weaknesses of Aubrey.The chapter begins with Aubrey and Maturin eating together. We learn a little of the background of Maturin, who teaches Aubrey about languages. Maturin also reveals that he is a physician. Jack says that is close enough to a surgeon, which he needs for the Sophie, and begins encouraging Maturin to come to sea with him. Maturin, somewhat at loose ends, is gradually convinced. Aubrey receives his orders and notice that his lieutenant would be a James Dillon. Maturin says he does not know Dillon.
Aubrey returns to the Sophie and engages in the details necessary to sail on his mission. He looks into the accounts with the purser, Ricketts, and many other details. Aubrey goes to the dockyard and talks with Mr. Brown, the officer in charge. He requests a copy of some music from Mr. Brown, because he knows Maturin is interested. The next morning, Aubrey is woken by the carpenter's hammering, making some requested adjustments to the Sophie. He spends the morning getting some 12 pound guns to try on the ship. Dillon reports to the Sophie, and he and Aubrey set to work together on more details. They leave port to give the ship a try. Aubrey is learns about the Sophie by doing things like having himself rowed around the outside of the ship so he can see her for various angles.
In the meantime, Maturin has done his research about life as a ship's surgeon, and decided to give it a try. He makes some arrangements and is ready to meet Aubrey, then is disappointed to see the Sophie leave dock. Thinking he has been left behind, Maturin is disappointed. He returns to his inn where he receives the message that the schedule has changed, but Aubrey has not left him.
Back on the Sophie the 12 pound guns are proving to be too powerful for the little ship. Disappointed, Aubrey agrees that they have to be taken back out. Aubrey looks through the logs to see how things have been run on the Sophie in the past. There is an accident, and they return to the dockyard for repairs, which take some negotiating to arrange. Aubrey meets up with Maturin and makes arrangements for Maturin to get his gear on board.
The first thing that struck me as I read this chapter, is how much a ship's captain has to know to make his ship run. Most fiction books gloss over such details as stores, gunner's powder, tackle, instructions to the carpenter, hiring (or pressing) of seamen... And the non-fiction I've read are more focused on the broader issues of sea battles, with only brief mention of the nitty-gritty details Jack must deal with in this chapter. I love how Jack says, "clapping his hand to his forehead. 'What a damned fool. I clean forgot the oil.'" What a great example of how much there is to remember, and no neat little checklist to work from.
Elizabeth S wrote: "The first thing that struck me as I read this chapter, is how much a ship's captain has to know to make his ship run. Most fiction books gloss over such details as stores, gunner's powder, tackle,..."I think some of this is Aubrey being new to ship command. He probably hasn't learned to trust or delegate some of this to his ships officers. While the Captain is responsible for everything, it is really the duty of the 1st Lt. to run the ship day to day.
Great summary Elizabeth! I had a much tougher time following this chapter with all the new ship related terms being thrown out. I love it though and am using it as a learning experience.It seems like captain Jack is really coming into his own. There is already a marked change between his apparent insecurities that the first chapter focused on, to how he is now grabbing the bull by the horns and getting down to business. Clearly he still has a lot to learn, but he is already shaping up to be a fine captain. I'm anxious to see how he fares once they hit the open waters.
Another aspect of the "nitty-gritty" is how much manual labor is expended to complete any task. Aubrey is going to try some 12-pounder guns (the weight is of the shot not the cannon itself!). The crew will have to move tons of guns off the ship and tons back on. If it doesn't work out they will have to reverse the process. All of this is done with muscle and sweat barring some mechanical advantages with pulleys. Any other activity is the same - loading supplies including water, food, cannon balls, gunpowder; setting up masts and spars with all of the sails and ropes that go along with them. The most amazing thing is that it doesn't seem to take very long to accomplish any of these tasks.
Patricrk wrote: "I think some of this is Aubrey being new to ship command. He probably hasn't learned to trust or delegate some of this to his ships officers. While the Captain is responsible for everything, it is really the duty of the 1st Lt. to run the ship day to day. "Good points, Patricrk. In this chapter we can kind of get a feel for which things Aubrey wants to be more involved with, and which things he wants to just run themselves. It'll take a while for him to build enough of a relationship with his underlings to trust them as much as it would be nice to.
Don wrote: "Great summary Elizabeth! I had a much tougher time following this chapter with all the new ship related terms being thrown out. I love it though and am using it as a learning experience.It seem..."
Very good points, Don. I agree that there is a lot of ship lingo being used here. And O'Brian just uses it without much explanation. If any of our readers takes the time to look up some of the terms, please share your results here, so we can all profit from it. I'm hoping to take some time this week to look up some of those terms.
I also like how we are starting to see Aubrey in his element. We can see some of his strengths, as well as other weaknesses. More on that tomorrow...
Erick wrote: "Another aspect of the "nitty-gritty" is how much manual labor is expended to complete any task. Aubrey is going to try some 12-pounder guns (the weight is of the shot not the cannon itself!). The..."I am amazed by how O'Brian can get so much into the "nitty-gritty" without loosing his readers. Yes, there is a lot of ship terminology that can slow a reader down, but there is enough else going on to keep us going. And make us eager for the open seas, as Don said. Lots of stuff in this chapter.
Erick - and everyone - I had very similar thoughts about everything that they had to do to get the ship ready to sail. I even thought to myself, "this author is showing the nitty gritty" . . . great minds think alike!It would be easy to get bogged down in the terminology of this chapter. Elizabeth, I wish I were ambitious enough (or had enough time) to look up all the terms. The author is must be quite good - I got the gist of everything without necessarily being able to define each word.
I kind of like the detail. In a way, it makes for a more slowly moving story. But on the other hand, it made me feel more like I was there and seeing how things really were.
I find that although I like the detail and ‘nitty-gritty’, I sometimes have no idea what the author is saying and need to look words up to get a feel for what is going on which then disrupts my reading. I am learning new things as I go along but I sometimes get a little annoyed as well. Does anyone else have this problem??
Great summary Elizabeth! I had a much tougher time following this chapter with all the new ship related terms being thrown out. I love it though and am using it as a learning experience.I agree, this is my first naval book and I'm having a tough time with all the ship rigging terms, but am reading on and I'm interested in the story line.
Sounds like we are all almost, but not quite, overcome by nitty-gritties. :) I was thinking if we each posted 2-3 things that we looked up, we'd all help each other. I'm going to read my daughter a story now, then see if I can do a couple to get us started.
If anyone would like to post questions I will see if I can help. I have read the whole series multiple times so I may be able to provide an explanation on some of the terms.
Good idea Elizabeth. I'll spend some time with it tonight when I get home from work.
Erick wrote: "If anyone would like to post questions I will see if I can help. I have read the whole series multiple times so I may be able to provide an explanation on some of the terms."Good idea, Erick. For everyone, post questions or things you've learned. We have a number of people who've read the series before who can help answer questions. Not to mention some of us have read other books on the era and may have answers.
And we shouldn't forget to also discuss other things of interest, like the character development and writing style and such. Things certainly get more interesting in Chapter 2.
Here's a question for you experts. I'm not sure how to look it up, but maybe one or more of you can help. What's with the women on board? In everything else I've read, I was under the impression that women on board ship was taboo, and all good seamen were prejudiced against it. I'm guessing the women mentioned here in Chapter 2 aren't, uh, wives who just want to be with their husbands. But was that kind of sneaking women aboard really that common? And where in the world did one hid one's woman, given the close quarters and careful calculations to barely make room for the men's cots? I guess I was under the impression that all such dalliances were done on-shore.
I've just been doing some looking up about surgeons on-board ship around 1800 (which I believe is the year M&C is supposed to occur).The most interesting paragraph was the listing of the surgeon's duties, found in wikipedia:
The surgeon's duties included responsibility for his mates and loblolly boys, visiting patients at least twice a day, and keeping accurate records on each patient admitted to his care. The surgeon would take morning sick call at the mainmast, assisted by his mates, as well as tending to injured sailors during the day. During sea battles, the surgeon worked in the cockpit, a space permanently partitioned off near a hatchway down which the wounded could be carried for treatment. The deck was strewn with sand prior to battle to prevent the surgeon from slipping in the blood that accumulated.
In addition to caring for the sick and wounded, surgeons were responsible for regulating sanitary conditions on the ship. They fumigated the sick bay and sometimes whole decks by burning brimstone (sulfur), and maintained the ventilating machines that supplied fresh air to the lower decks to keep them dry.
Here's a paragraph from another site explaining why surgeons were often in short supply around 1800:
Low pay, low status and the difficult and dangerous working conditions combined to bring about an acute shortage of naval surgeons in the years leading up to Trafalgar. After repeated representations from naval surgeons and in recognition of the need for action if the Navy was to be able to combat the Napoleonic threat effectively, the Admiralty in January 1805 authorised a wide-ranging series of measures designed to improve the lot of the naval surgeon and thus to make the profession more attractive to suitably qualified applicants. Rates of pay and pension levels were increased, a uniform (similar to that of a ship's physician) was introduced and surgeons no longer had to pay for drugs acquired from the ship's apothecary.
Sources for the above, and to read more:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship%27s...
http://www.kcl.ac.uk/depsta/iss/libra...
http://beyondthemap.ca/english/daily_...
Very interesting, Elizabeth. I'm wondering how there were any naval surgeons at all before 1805!
Like others, the amount of administrative work that an officer of this era is exposed to surprised me. The chapter also contained a pretty vivid description of the desperate conditions Maturin was in. Even though I knew as the reader the ship would return, I felt a great deal of sadness about Maturin's disappointment.
Thanks for the postings Elizabeth. Great information.
One of the most interesting parts for me in Chapter 2 was the first discussion between Jack and Ricketts, the purser. (See pages 53-55.)Side note: definitions of "purser" include: "an officer aboard a ship who keeps accounts and attends to the passengers' welfare" and "Clerk/officer whose duties include keeping the ship's books, crew lists, passenger lists, and all documents relating to cargo." Obviously the second definition is closer to what a purser was on the Sophie.
In this conversation with the Ricketts, Jack shows one of his great weaknesses, he is not "good with figures at any time" (page 53). But we also see one of Jack's strengths, his ability to figure a way around his weakness. Jack really knows the system, and finds something he can hold over Ricketts' head--Ricketts junior. These conversations where things aren't specifically said, but everyone "knows" what is really going on, are well written.
Elizabeth S wrote: "One of the most interesting parts for me in Chapter 2 was the first discussion between Jack and Ricketts, the purser. (See pages 53-55.)Side note: definitions of "purser" include: "an officer ab..."
I agree that they are well written. I like how O'Brian writes the descriptions into the story. After the discussion with Ricketts you understand better what a purser is, there power and their place within the British Navy.
'Aussie Rick' wrote: "I find that although I like the detail and ‘nitty-gritty’, I sometimes have no idea what the author is saying and need to look words up to get a feel for what is going on which then disrupts my rea..."I admire all O'Brian readers who actually look up all that specialized vocabulary! I do with his books what I did with Tom Clancy's, when I was in a Clancy phase in the 90's -- I skim right over the technical stuff and zoom in on character & plot. Of course, I miss some of the humor this way! And, little by little, I've learned what some of those naval terms mean.
Elizabeth, re post #3: I enjoyed Aubrey using his request for the "oil" for his twelve-pounders as a way to "grease the palm" of the official in charge of the yard, to hurry things along. Time & tide wait for no man!
Tom Clancy
Can anyone explain the accident that happened toward the end of the chapter? The way I read it is that the mainyard, the part perpedicular to the mast, that holds the mailsail out broke. I also got the impression that Aubrey deliberately pushed it too hard so that it broke. I'm basing this supposition on the following quotes:p75 "...he grunted and returned to his stariong at the mainyard, a piece of wood rather more that thirty feet long and tapering from some seven inches in the slings, the middle part, to three at the yard arms, the extremities.
'More like a cro'jack than a mainyard,' he thought, for the twentieth time since he first set eyes upon it: the Sophie was running no faster now, and so there was no longer any easing of the load; ther yard plied, and it seemed to Jack that he heard it groan."
The cro'jack is, I believe, a smaller version of the mainyard and that Jacks comment in deragatory. This passage also shows me that he's aware that there is a problem with the mainyard.
p76 "James Dillon knocked on the door. 'The wind is increasing, sir,' he said. 'May I hand the mainsail, or reef at least?'
'No, no, Mr Dillon...no' said Jack, smiling. Then reflecting that it was scarcely fair to leave this on his lieutenants shoulders he added, "I shall come on deck in two minutes.'
In fact, he was there in less than one, just in time to hear the ominous rending crack."
This is where it seems to me that Aubrey chooses to not prevent the mainyard from breaking. He also seems to be very clear on where to get a suitable or superior replacement.
I could be way off base. The use of all of the terminology without explanation threw me off a little.
Any thoughts?
I read it the same way. For whatever reason (like you, I don't understand half the terminology), Jack judged the mainyard substandard. So, after getting a feel for how the Sophie ran, he deliberately sailed in such a way as to crack the mainyard and so justify getting a better-quality replacement.He is a clever guy!
Hmm, very interesting. This whole passage was very confusing when I first read it. Thanks for the insight, I think it makes sense.I've always liked this way of getting an improved version of some good. I used this tactic to get an upgraded iPhone, but my wife says I can only get away with it once :) How often could Jack get away with this?
Thanks for your read on the accident, Eliza. It makes a lot of sense to me that way. Again, it is an example of how Jack is going at playing the system. In fact, it seems to be second nature to him.As to Don's question about how often you can get away with it, I think (in general) more often than one should be able to get away with it! That is part of why the welfare system is so complicated, isn't it? (Not to get sidetracked into today's politics.)
Mary Ellen wrote: "I read it the same way. For whatever reason (like you, I don't understand half the terminology), Jack judged the mainyard substandard. So, after getting a feel for how the Sophie ran, he delibera..."A lot of the terminology I'm struggling with is just the names for various parts of the ship. My copy of M&C has a labeled picture before the title page showing "The sails of a square-rigged ship, hung out to dry in a calm." It helps with the names of the sails for this particular ship, but not for things like "mainyard" and "cro-jack." Does everyone else have a diagram like that in their books? Anyone found something similar, maybe better, online?
Elizabeth S wrote: "Mary Ellen wrote: "I read it the same way. For whatever reason (like you, I don't understand half the terminology), Jack judged the mainyard substandard. So, after getting a feel for how the Soph..."I have the same diagram in my book and wikipedia had a list of sailing terms and their definitions but I haven't been able to find a good diagram of all of the parts of the type of ship Aubrey is in command of. I think a visual would be very helpful.
I'll try to do a better search online for a diagram of the ship, and maybe a good glossary of sailing terms with their definitions around 1800. If anyone else has or finds either, please post for everyone, both here and in the M&C glossary thread. Thanks!
Mod
Here are some diagrams that illustrate the sails and some of the common features of sailing ships.
Common features
The image is a model of the HMS Surprise.
Mod
Here are the common sails of a square-rigged sailing ship.
1. Flying jib
2. Jib
3. Fore topmast staysail
4. Fore staysail
5. Foresail or Fore course
6. Fore topsail
7. Fore topgallant
8. Main staysail
9. Main topmast staysail
10.Middle staysail
11.Main topgallant staysail
13.Mainsail or Main course
14. Main topsail
15. Main topgallant
16. Mizzen staysail
17. Mizzen topmast staysail
18. Mizzen topgallant staysail
19. Mizzen sail
20. Spanker
21. Mizzen topsail
22. Mizzen topgallant
Staysails are sails rigged from the mast 'stays' - heavy lines that run fore and aft supporting the various masts.
sail diagram source: Serres, "Liber Nauticus", and reprinted in the Harper-Collins editions of Patrick O'Brian's Capt. Aubrey/Stephen Maturin series.
Also: http://piratemaster.wetpaint.com/page...
Elizabeth S wrote: "Here's a question for you experts. I'm not sure how to look it up, but maybe one or more of you can help. What's with the women on board? In everything else I've read, I was under the impressio..."
When a ship came into port, there was a good chance that many of the men would desert if given the chance. To help reduce this the men were usually confined on ship. Since the men couldn't leave their "wifes" were allowed to visit. The expression show a leg comes from this period when the crew had to get up those left in the hammocks had to show a leg to show that they were woman instead of men. The woman were sent ashore before the ship sailed. In a harbor like Port Mahon where there was little place to run, the men were given more freedom on shore than they would have been given in England. There was no expectation of privacy on a ship of this time period.
Kay wrote: "Very interesting, Elizabeth. I'm wondering how there were any naval surgeons at all before 1805!"The chief qualification for a surgeon was how fast he could amputate a limb. There was no required medical training.
Patrick - thanks for the succinct explanation of the bottom line, as sad as that is!
Bentley, thanks for those diagrams. Every little bit helps. And thanks for the info on the women, Patricrk. I'm still a little surprised that the women, evidently, were not always sent back ashore before the ship sailed. When there is so little space on board, extra bodies and extra mouths would seem to be significant.
Patricrk wrote: "The chief qualification for a surgeon was how fast he could amputate a limb. There was no required medical training. "I think if I were having something amputated without the option of painkillers, I'd vote for speed as a worthy qualification.
The History Book Club
Books mentioned in this topic
Master & Commander (other topics)Authors mentioned in this topic
Tom Clancy (other topics)Patrick O'Brian (other topics)
Welcome to the historical fiction discussion of Master and Commander by Patrick O'Brian.
This is the reading assignment for week two - (May 10th, 2010 to May 16th, 2010)
This is the second historical fiction group selected book.
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers if you are catching up.
This book was kicked off on May 3rd.
This discussion is being led by assisting moderator of historical fiction - Elizabeth S. She did a terrific job bringing the previous book and Gettysburg alive for all readers and especially for the American Civil War enthusiasts in our group.
We always enjoy the participation of all group members. Amazon, Barnes and Noble and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.
This thread opens up Monday, May 10th for discussion. This is a non spoiler thread.
Welcome,
~Bentley
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