Tips for Self Promotion, Sales, and Advertising discussion
Self Promotion Tips
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Submitting books to USA Today, O, etc...
Maybe you can. I think anyone can tell pretty quickly whether a book is not ready for publication. Within a couple pages. I would not blame them for tossing obviously inadequate work. Does that mean that all self-published works are inadequate? I don't think so.
Julie wrote: "Maybe you can. I think anyone can tell pretty quickly whether a book is not ready for publication. Within a couple pages. I would not blame them for tossing obviously inadequate work. Does that me..."I have to agree Julie. Since I became an Indie author I tend to veer towards other Indie author's work and I have to say there are some really good books out there with minimal errors. I admit there have been books that the first 10 pages have made my eyes bleed but when you are getting them for free or only a few dollars, I have no hesitation deleting them and moving on to the next. I am hoping in the not too distant future the stigma surrounding indie authors and self-pubbed books will fade, especially with the advent of the e-book and the ease with which anyone can 'publish' and retain ALL rights.
That's exactly how I came to that conclusion. Since I published my book on Smashwords, I've read a lot of the other books available on Smashwords, especially the free ones. If the first 10 pages "make my eyes bleed," I go on to another one.I hope you're right. Fingers crossed.
Well, the first step to get rid of the stigma would be to get all the amateurish books off the market. I'm afraid the stigma will only get worse as more and more people will realize how easy it is to publish their stuff regardless of their aptitude.We are already at the point where way too many self-published books are virtually unreadable because the writers have not even the most basic grasp on grammar or language, and do quite evidently not have the willingness to even read over their writing once before they hit the "Publish" button. Add to that all those amateurs who get angry at people actually pointing out those errors to said authors and you have a vast caste of Writers - or rather wanna-bes - who will gradually destroy some major opportunities for all of us.
Barriers of entry are a good thing, and the lower the barrier the more low quality material will make it to market. Mind you, the book market is not the first to suffer from this. Music was the first, software the second, movies the third and now it is reaching us.
YEA! Now, EVERYONE can get published. THAT's the problem.(I stick with my first reply) Can you really blame them?
No, of course not. I'm just saying that any hopes of self-publishing losing its stigma is only going to get worse.
Guido,do you really think so? I can see why you'd say that, but consider, what is self-pub's status today compared to 10-years ago, 5-years ago, 1-year, last month. Granted, it's got a helluva long way to go, but it seems to be making progress, no? If we just be patient, hang in there, keep putting out the best we can, the strong will survive, the weak will fall by the wayside. It's a jungle out there, babyj
I do think so, yes. As I said above, without a barrier of entry, anyone can publish. As a result - as harsh as it may sound - more and more dribble will make it into the marketplace. I mean already, look at the Kindle. Out of every 10 of these 99 cent books there's maybe one that is worth reading, and maybe two that actually leave a good impression. All the other ones, from my experience, are ineptly put together and/or poorly written. With better tools the technical issues may go away - though I honestly do not think so as tools will probably never fully compensate for writer's who do not even understand the most basic functionality of their word processors.But even if all those formatting issues etc should go away, the writing itself won't get better and neither will the editing. I've seen indie writer books that were awesomely written, but you could clearly tell they had never seen any editing. There is nothing worse than a great book that is being destroyed by the writer's sloppiness and laziness when they don't even read their own material.
On top of it we have the big egos. Many of these new writers have huge egos. They will not accept the fact that there may be problems with their writing and/or their editing or their technical delivery of, say, an eBook. These are human traits and I honestly do not see those go away.
As a result I think that we will see more and more of that low level content that will continue to flood the market - particularly in the eBook market. The result will be that the self-published stigma will get worse and it will also result in fewer people actually trying out independent and self-published authors.
Keep in mind, just because authors can publish content doesn't mean that other people will read it or seek it out. And the more titles are coming out the more important it will become to have professional representation to lift your books above the sea of others. That is going to be the job of publishers, as it always has been: to locate talent, and to build it up.
I understand that my point of view may not be exactly popular, but there are many things I take a very different stance on when it comes to indie publishing. Just don't ever ask my opinion about those free or 99 cent eBooks... I could talk your ear off about everything I think that is wrong with that. :)
Thanks for the tip. I just upped my price on smashwords. :)
Hey, don't take my word for it, please. I just have an opinion, whether it's right or wrong, I don't know. LOL
Hi everyone! I'm a new GoodReads, indie author and have been inspired by your discussion to comment. I've just written my first letter to Oprah - haven't sent it off, but I plan to. My husband gave me a piece of advice last year when I was still playing the traditional publishers' game: it's your book, take control of it. He also suggested I stop worrying about things I have no control over, like the low-quality books that other people are publishing. I think any one of us could (and has probably tried) the traditional publishing route, but we've chosen to take advantage of the wave of the publishing future. There must be other ways to get our books out there to let the readers decide what they want to read. How do we take that task out of the hands of the publishing houses? I'm exploring online marketing (just like the rest of us) and will still send Oprah a copy. Even if I have to send 1,000 emails or send my book back 100 times, I'm going to keep on bugging Oprah until she reads my book or has me arrested, which is pretty hard considering I live in Europe! Thanks for the discussion. Looking forward to the next one. By the way, I've added an excerpt to my upcoming memoir to my page.
I think think the best thing any self-published author can do is to make sure their product, presentation, materials and website don't look like it's self-published. If authors manage to create a polished image in the way they present themselves and their books I do believe they have a fairly good chance in being looked at even by mainstream outlets with big "No self-published authors" signs.
This is indeed a good discussion and everyone had a good point. Now that it is so easy to get published (even if it's just an e-book) there will be lots of authors out there (again I agree with the huge ego comment) that probably don't care what their content looks like because they believe it is perfect. You only have to watch the auditions for American Idol to realize there are an awful lot of people about who believe without a doubt they are talented and whose family obviously doesn't have the heart to tell them otherwise.
I think it would be wonderful if there was a way to somehow screen a book for grammer and editing but I'm not sure how feasible that is, not in the short term anyway.
I do get a little perturbed by the fact that it is true, a lot of people will dismiss indie authors because they have had some bad experience in the past. I mean, there's over 11,000 books on Smashwords now and I'm sure a large percentage aren't that good or maybe they are. At least with sites like Smashwords you can download a sample without paying and you would know within 20 pages if the book is worth buying then you haven't parted with a penny on a lousy book, same on Amazon Kindle.
Let's just hope that if you polish your work as best as you can, take pride in it and have a professional looking cover, that will be what catches readers eyes and divert them from the drosh out there.
Let's face it, in traditional publishing, they stick to the same authors that they know sell but have you read the 4th or 5th book in an author's series, they all start to meld together and the stories become plotless and listless. That's where indie authors come in, because we are fresh and new and different. This truly is a time of change and it will be very interesting to see how things develop.
Good points, Alison. Also, I think it is important to point out that there will be real gems and breakout successes coming from the indie author world. It won't be too long until an incredibly successful book will appear out of this wave that will make everyone perk up and take notice. During these periods when that happens - which will be limited time windows - , I think there will be a lot of opportunities for indie authors with a truly professional attitude to make some leeway and get their material looked at by people, media and outlets that would otherwise have completely ignored them. I would honestly not be surprised if some sort of of a "Premium" indie perception will develop over time where quality writers will not necessarily be thrown in the same pot as your true amateur.
Guido wrote: "I understand that my point of view may not be exactly popular, but there are many things I take a very different stance on when it comes to indie publishing. Just don't ever ask my opinion about those free or 99 cent eBooks..."Guido, I'm with you on a lot of what you have to say here. It's great that we all have access to so many tools of the trade. However, it does mean that we are having to sift through much more drivel. I look at it like a big discount clothing warehouse. I don't go to the 99 cent rack - period. If it's not worth any more than that to the seller, why will it be worth any more than that to me?
I'm not saying freebies aren't good. I put a lot of effort into my blog posts & I like putting it out there for free. It's a good forum, a good place for others to sample my writing, & good place for me to give to others.
We tell others what we're worth by showing our self-worth. When we feel like what we've done is good, we will be willing to put the time & effort (& yes, dollars) required to let other people know that it will be of value to them as well.
As j commented: "If we just be patient, hang in there, keep putting out the best we can, the strong will survive, the weak will fall by the wayside. It's a jungle out there, baby."
Those of us who truly believe in what we're doing will keep turning out quality. Those who don't will eventually give up & move on, as it's just too time consuming & expensive to keep it up when you see no return. Yes, there will always be more to take their place. The difference is that, for those who persevere, we'll keep seeing their work turn up over & over, here & there.
Champagne glasses raised to those of us who believe in quality!
Cheers. 'scuse the beer, I can't afford champagne. I'm an indie. :)
j
Free round on me!Kimberly, you express exactly my sentiments. I have absolutely no problem with giving away free copies of a book or discounting it to grow readership. However, there is a huge difference between devaluing your property, which what you do when you slap a 99 cent sticker on it - and promoting it with discounts. With the discount people will still see that the price of the book is actually supposed to be $4.99, for example, but that as a courtesy you make it available at a reduced rate.
To me it changes the entire sentiment. Like you, I typically don't even look at the free or 99 cent books, because as you say, if the author thinks it's so worthless, why should I waste my time with it?
Now, the biggest gripe I have with this whole free and 99cent pricing is this...The argument of authors goes that they give away their first and/or second books for free or el cheapo to build readership. The concept is that once they have a following they will raise the price and begin to make money.
This thinking is so wrong on so many levels, I can't even wrap my head around it. But to me the key points are that essentially what these writers are doing is grooming an eBook readership that has the expectancy that every book should be 99 cents. After all, there are thousands of them and eventually people will perceive anything above 99 cents as overpriced.
Just look at the McMillan eBook hoohah and you know exactly what I'm talking about.
By the time these authors are - in their mind - ready to raise their prices, two things will happen. The first is that people will immediately stamp them as "greedy," because in our fast-paced-half-informed society everyone who wants to charge for anything is automatically greedy. Never mind that these people's paychecks have to come from somewhere, but that's not how far they're really thinking.
So, with the "greed" stigma their reputation will go in the dump faster than they've been able to build their readership with free copies. Again, just look at the backlash Douglas Preston experienced for simply speaking his mind by saying that people seem to have an exaggerated sense of entitlement and that books should cost money, eBook or not.
The second thing that will happen to those authors is that while they are trying to raise their prices, other new indie writers will come along offering their work for free or 99 cents, cannibalizing their market.
Considering now that people inherently do not want to pay for intangible things such as digital games, digital movies, digital pictures and digital books, and given the fact that this author is now considered greedy, plus the flood of readily available free or 99 cent content, clearly our author will get nowhere fast. He did nothing more than squander his writing, devalue his property which could have potentially made him a livelihood for the next 50 years, had he placed and priced it properly.
This is why I've kept mine priced at $4.99, but have given out lots of discount coupon codes, including discounting it to free for the first couple weeks. With coupons, not by changing the price.
Come to think of it, some of the worst examples I've seen were paper books scanned to ebook and not properly reformatted.
Yes, Guido & Julie -A good way to do things. Give-aways, coupons, etc. say, "Hey, I'd love to introduce myself to you!" (it's a win-win), as opposed to "I hope you'll find some value in me."
Oh, & j - there's that pesky semantics thing again. Champagne by any other name... ;-)
(I don't even like champagne myself, but it looks good when raising the glass & it's all bubbly!)
My publisher sent the book to USA Today but no coverage yet. I have got other reviews coming in like from Washington Post and others but nothing yet from USA Today.Here is the latest review on my book:
SPY MEMOIR SPEAKS VOLUMES
DOUBLE AGENT’S TRUE STORY READS LIKE SOMETHING JOHN GRISHAM DREAMED UP
BY NICHOLAS ADDISON THOMAS
FOR THE FREE LANCE-STAR
Sunday, May 2, 2010
APOLITICALLY broken landscape serves as a powerful backdrop in “A Time to Betray,” author Reza Kahlili’s haunting journey through the religious underbelly of a divided and troubled Iran. Equal parts astonishing and disturbing, this perfectly crafted memoir will open your eyes to the heinous past, troubled present and murky future of Iran. The reader can down a dozen Mountain Dews in one sitting, and she still won’t get the same jolt she would from reading this story about the double life of a CIA spy in Iran’s Revolutionary Guards. Kahlili (a pseudonym to protect the author’s identity) was raised in Tehran in the 1960s, where he bided his time playing with best friends, learning about his country’s history and engaging new depths of Islam. When he attends college in California, however, all that changes. The days of structured existence are supplanted by Corvettes, babes in bikinis and raucous music. A new approach to life is established, until Kahlili’s father unexpectedly dies and he returns to Iran. Back on his native soil, Kahlili discovers that the country he loves is torn between adopting a radical or traditional approach to Islam and Iran’s governance structure. He decides to enroll in the Revolutionary Guards, a notorious military unit supporting Ayatollah Khomeini, leader of the 1979 Iranian Revolution . He quickly learns to hate the war, due to the government’s blatant lies and the obscene torture of his countrymen. This compels Kahlili to approach the U.S. and serve as a spy, code name “Wally.” From this point on, he’s a double agent, supplying America with key information and serving in the ranks of a destructive militia. It’s a deadly assignment, but one Kahlili hopes will help change the course of Iran’s destructive path . Tales of anguish, hardship and unfounded persecution abound in this masterful tale, forcing the reader to accept the fact that the news he sees on CNN is barely scratching the surface. Using insider information, Kahlili excels at painting an enthralling portrait of a country impacted by religious and political extremism. What makes “A Time to Betray” so powerful is two fold: First, the story reads like a John Grisham novel. Second, the narrative is refreshingly objective. Throughout his gripping journey, Kahlili ping-pongs between being a devoted son of Iran and a U.S. supporter. The emotion this produces creates an astonishing read that will have you rethinking what you know about the Middle East.
Nicholas Addison Thomas is a freelance writer in Fredericksburg.
A TIME TO BETRAY By Reza Kahlili
http://atimetobetray.com/praise-and-r...
Guido wrote: "Now, the biggest gripe I have with this whole free and 99cent pricing is this...The argument of authors goes that they give away their first and/or second books for free or el cheapo to build rea..."
Wow, I'd never even looked at it like that. I am guilty of charging just 99c for mine but not because I don't think it's worth much more, I do. I have had great reviews on it and it has been polished and edited and polished again. I am very proud of my work and believe it is worth at least $4.99 but like you said I am at fault at thinking no one would buy it at that price because I'm unknown and was hoping that because it is the 1st in a series I could charge more for the next after I've developed a readership. Never even entered my head about looking greedy but I can see how it might look that way to a reader.
Now I am looking at this with another perspective and wondering if no one will buy it because it's so cheap and therefore in their minds worthless and not worth their time. I can see both sides of this now and I am going to try an experiment and put the price up to $4.99.
I'm so glad I joined this discussion, it is opening my eyes and it's good to talk with other well informed authors.
Thanks
Alison,If you want to expand your readership, you can still easily discount your book. However, I think it is important to make it as a coupon/discount/promotion without changing the actual list price. That way people can always see that you value your book at $4.99, even though they have the chance of "temporarily" getting it much cheaper.
I wrote, emailed and called Oprah back in 2004 when my first edition came out, A Patient's Guide to Weight Loss Surgery." I thought it might be an interesting topic for her. I learned that one of her 59 secretaries handle all letters and you receive a form letter, email or phone reply back and it doesn't go any farther, unless you have the sales or the money to back up your need to be recognized. Sorry to burst your bubble, but Oprah isn't going to see your letter. April Hochstrasser
Nanette, my royalties via Smashwords are 85%. Which means I make more money on a Smashwords download that costs the reader $2.50 than I do when someone buys my $9.98 print book via Amazon.
I got the form email back from Oprah. I figured as much and put it to rest. Then thought I hit pay dirt when I got an actual live personalized email from Harpo Productions. I answered all the questions on the questionnaire, and sent all the photos that they requested. (Looks count on TV) Then, I waited...
Smile, thought as a sister struggling author, we all need one! Kathy
Nanette wrote: "Guido,You are so right. Not only all of what you said, but--why do writers think they should "give" their work away? Do plumbers, accountants, etc give their time and work away?
If writers ..."
Nanette
I completely agree with you. If you have something worthwhile it isn't going to help your progress (often) by giving away your work. Too many of us who write are looking for instant success and it just won't happen. Many of us here are great writers and I emphasize many, because we are many, but some of us won't even be recognized in our own lifetime. These are not reasons to stop what you love doing. If you feel what you do is worthy, keep after it. In my own case I do several things different, but mainly I collect interested readers, stay in touch and depend on them to spread my word for me. It works for me. I don't spin my wheels by trading favorable reviews, giving away books or some of the other games that go on. Keep in mind, what you do, others are doing which sort of negates the whole thing. find your niche and dig in, it will pay off in the long run. Provided what you write is worthy of an audience and passes scrutiny by unsolicited paying readers. Moths are attracted to the flame and bright lights, but their fate is well known.
Dr Robert E McGinnis author for over thirty years
You might check out my oldest book now in the fourth edition, "In Search Of Paradise" not that you should buy it, but because that is what we are seeking here and I have found it. This book outsells my other ten or twelve books all together and I keep a Florida printer busy.
Dr wrote: "Moths are attracted to the flame and bright lights, but their fate is well known."I love that comparison.
I've seen a lot of good stuff on Smashwords, and a lot of junk. For many wannabe authors, it's an outlet to get there work "out there."
That's just the thing these days. With no upfront cost required anyone can put their stuff out there whether they are actually serious about it or not. The same goes for the Kindle store and it will be the same story with many of the other eBook stores. It is probably the reason why some eBook stores, like eBooks.com, require a solid track record and line-up before they will even talk to you.
An aspiring author asked my opinion of a book he wrote. I told him he needed to take his time on it and work hard. What's the first thing he does? Smashwords!Eventually Smashwords will be known as "Trashwords."
The wording of the review is so convoluted I can't understand it. What does "apolitically broken landscape" mean? How about "religious underbelly of a divided and troubled Iran?" The book, "A Time to Betray" may be good but this review would make me steer clear of it.
I agree with all of this. I could never understand why someone who has written a 100,000-plus word book, which I assume they've worked long and hard on, would just give it away for free.
You guys are good bunch. I wish more authors would have the same sentiment as we do. It would curb the flood of 99 cent novels quite a bit.Interestngly I was asking that exact question - Why do you sell your novel that you worked for 10 years on for 99 cents - over on KindleBoards. The response was what you'd expect
I chose to price it at 99 cents in hopes of getting my story out there.
Evidently, this author could use a bit of thought provoking discussion we have here. Instead he seems to listen to the countless readers responding to my question - God knows why they feel entitled to answering on it - who indicate that they would never touch a first time novel for more than 99 cent.
Anyway, for all of you interested, here's a link to the conversation
http://www.kindleboards.com/index.php...
I've done the same thing. I took a harder look at a book I had available, decided it needed to be revised, and did so. Unfortunately, the previous version will always be "out there." It's something I'll have to live with I suppose.
Even after my editor went through my book six times, and I went through it at least ten times, there was still a typo and one page break error, although the latter was not significant. I also read three mainstream books last fall, each of which had 3+ typos and more than one pagination problem. No matter how careful the editor is, or the author, there are bound to be small hiccups like that. A good story and good writing will take care of the rest.As for marketing (which encompasses advertising, promotion and sales), it is best to specifically target one's market through any means possible, short of buying space on someone's blog. Oprah and the other 'biggies' are not going to waste time with independent 'solo-flyers' like us. Especially after Oprah's fiasco with that faker. 'Once burned,' and all that. Besides, when Oprah does want your book, what will you do when she wants to give two-three hundred free books to her audience, that day? You will have to print and ship, at your cost, and with no sales. It is also doubtful that Oprah will tell people to send money to a website, and not a major bookseller or publisher. She doesn't need to be sued again. These are problems that are insurmountable, for many independent authors, so thinking big has its drawbacks, even if you are one in a million and get chosen, by Oprah's staff.
I do not swap out reviews with other authors, because that do-for-me-and-I'll-do-for-you ideal doesn't wear well on my psyche. I want reviews from people who read the book because they wanted to, not because they wanted a favor in return. (No, I am not judging those who do trade reviews. I am just reflecting on my point of view.) On LT, another author bought my book and then wrote a review, without a request from me to do so. Because it looked interesting, I bought his book for my partner to read and he is writing a review for the author. (I don't read fiction, while I am in the middle of writing.)
April wrote: "I wrote, emailed and called Oprah back in 2004 when my first edition came out, A Patient's Guide to Weight Loss Surgery." I thought it might be an interesting topic for her. I learned that one of h..."
I wrote and e-mailed Oprah three weeks ago. I tried to intrigue the people who read the letters , first about my co-authors unique gift and her history as a dynamic woman in the community. That alone was what I tried to sell them on the idea of getting us on as guests.
I then asked them about how to make sure that the book would actually reach Oprah if we were to send a copy?
I believe that my letter was more compeling than this comment.I have not recieved any reply, yet.
I then asked them about how to make sure that the book would actually reach Oprah if we were to send a copy?
I believe that my letter was more compeling than this comment.I have not recieved any reply, yet.
Kgcummings wrote: "I got the form email back from Oprah. I figured as much and put it to rest. Then thought I hit pay dirt when I got an actual live personalized email from Harpo Productions. I answered all the ques..."
LOL! That picture is definitely worth more than a thousand words!
Malika wrote: "LOL! That picture is definitely worth more than a thousand words!"I printed and laminated the email from Harpo Productions. It's one of my marketing treasures!
I write to reach people, not for the money or to hit "pay dirt." I'm not saying that all authors wouldn't love to be "rolling around in pay dirt." However as an "indie" author or whatever profession one does I am certain of the unavoidable question of is it quality or quantity? Then too, a book may hold no value to one, but it is subject to change depending on timing (where they are at or frame of mind). Appearance is fine and dandy but content remains the determining factor to the potential reader/customer. Everything we do has a motive behind it but sometimes it doesn't take much for people to see what "it" is. Sure people will always wish us health, wealth, etc but the most important wish that any of us can receive is insight so we can see for ourselves.“Like beauty, optimism is in the eye of the beholder!”
M.D. Birmingham
I have just posted a page that gives relevant links for submitting galleys to newspapers, magazines, and trade publications. I created it because I plan on submitting my galleys the end of August and I wanted to have my homework done beforehand. Glad I did because that was an all day affair. Save yourself some trouble finding the hidden pages within those sources and use my page as a reference. http://www.to-publish-or-not-to-publi...
K.J. wrote: "Even after my editor went through my book six times, and I went through it at least ten times, there was still a typo and one page break error, although the latter was not significant. I also read..."If you are doing your job well, i.e. writing a good book, people will not notice a few typos. Mainstream published books have them too. This is a great thread. Soooo glad I happened upon it. Thanks yall.
Guido wrote: "Now, the biggest gripe I have with this whole free and 99cent pricing is this...The argument of authors goes that they give away their first and/or second books for free or el cheapo to build rea..."
I completely agree with you, passionately! I went with an indie publisher who has promoted this idea when asked what I can do to help market myself.
I'm torn, quite frankly. As is the case with many authors, I'm an introvert. I don't have a large social network I can pressure to purchase my books. I don't have a massive social media following. I feel backed into a corner to hock my wares for pennies (the fruits of years of hard, creative work) in order to gain some type of following (which has failed utterly thus far, despite spending money on ad campaigns I couldn't afford!). Also, in order to try to advertise through the most productive means (e.g. Bookbub), you almost have to already have a following, reviews, etc. just to have your book promoted. It's a very frustrating conundrum for someone just starting out.
I didn't become a writer to make a living at it. i write because I have stories to tell and to be creative. I have written over 20 books, two are amazon bestsellers and others have sold very few copies. My favorite book of all the books I have written has sold less than 20 copies. Is it because it isn't as good as the others? No. It has never been promoted and promotion takes money time and effort. My amazon checks each month are small but at least some of my books are selling weekly. Another reason my books sell is because I am a professional wildlife artist and i have demos, workshops, and speaking engagements and I always include a bit about writing fiction books as well as being an artist, which increases awareness and sales. My promotions now consists of social media and speaking about my art. Maybe it will have a cumulative effect? I just keep writing more novels-two more of mine are ready to go and two in the works. Keep Writing.
Alison wrote: "Let's face it, in traditional publishing, they stick to the same authors that they know sell but have you read the 4th or 5th book in an author's series, they all start to meld together and the stories become plotless and listless."100% agree. That was why I stopped reading James Patterson. I'd rather hunt for new authors than read established authors while I wait for them to lose their fizz. (Apologies to Mr. King and Mr. Hosseini)
Unfair? Possibly. But can you really blame them?