Romance Readers Reading Challenges discussion
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BDB Series by JR Ward (SPOILERS AHEAD)
I loved the first three books and think they live up to the hype. I thought the fourth one was good, but I didn't love it. I was okay with the fifth book until the ending, which I hated. As for book number six - when the series started to cross from paranormal romance to UF - I really didn't like it because I loved the series for the romance and the couple in that one barely had any scenes together. Still haven't read number seven, but I own it and plan on buying "Lover Mine," too. I'd re-read the series if my books weren't in storage, but maybe I'll jump in toward the end for the last two. :)
I read the entire series thus far, and looking forward to Lover Mine. I think it varies from different people. I know there were 2 books i had some trouble with certain things that happened; but it did not ruin my enjoyment for either book. Some of my BDB sisters felt those "parts" that happened didn't bother them at all.
Jump in anytime! Although i read the books and even did some re-reads recently for some, i plan on participating in the discussions or any questions other who will participate may have.
Yeah, I definitely think it varies for people. Myself, I seem to have a love/hate relationship with the BDB. My favorite by far was "Lover Awakened," which I just adored. I'll likely check in and jump in when the discussions start. :)
Rossy thanks for starting this dare! You're awesome as always. Well, I'm definitely a newbie to the BDB series. I really like her vampire version. I like that they actually eat, mate, etc. I'm glad they aren't stone. I just think its too bad a shellan (is that right) cant have more than one male since a male can have more than one shellan. LOL I think that would be kind of interesting.
I just bought Rhage, Vishous and Zsadists stories today so, hopefully I'll be able to join in the discussion.
Gigi wrote: "Rossy thanks for starting this dare! You're awesome as always. Well, I'm definitely a newbie to the BDB series. I really like her vampire version. I like that they actually eat, mate, etc. ..."
Shellan is right. :) I think it'd be interesting if a female could have more than one male, but in the BDB world, the males would probably kill each other. LOL.
I'm a newbie to the BDB series as well, read the first one and was completely hooked. I've read the first three so far, look forward to discussing them with all of you!
Harper wrote: "Yeah, I definitely think it varies for people. Myself, I seem to have a love/hate relationship with the BDB. My favorite by far was "Lover Awakened," which I just adored. I'll likely check in a..."
Ah yes, Z is one of my favorite of the brothers too.
Gigi wrote: "Rossy thanks for starting this dare! You're awesome as always. Well, I'm definitely a newbie to the BDB series. I really like her vampire version. I like that they actually eat, mate, etc. ..."
Good, i'm sure i can just send Leah after you if you go MIA.LOL
Tammy wrote: "I'm a newbie to the BDB series as well, read the first one and was completely hooked. I've read the first three so far, look forward to discussing them with all of you!"Welcome Tammy, please jump in any time!
Rossy ~*~ Ehrotic ~*~ wrote: "Gigi wrote: "Rossy thanks for starting this dare! You're awesome as always. Well, I'm definitely a newbie to the BDB series. I really like her vampire version. I like that they actually eat,..."
That would only be fair. LOL
Harper wrote: "Gigi wrote: "Rossy thanks for starting this dare! You're awesome as always. Well, I'm definitely a newbie to the BDB series. I really like her vampire version. I like that they actually eat,..."
LOL! Good point. They probably would. LOL
I would love to join your discussion. I've read the series but its been a while... I need to get back in touch!
Welcome and make yourself at home!LOLLadies, let me know a time frame when you think you'd like to start discussing or reading the first book.
Can I be tentatively in? I've read and own Dark Lover and touch wood I'll be able to get the others next month. If I can't I'll have to drop out. Is that okay Rossy?
That is fine with me, Nairabell. No need to drop out as it will take us 8 MONTHS to get through this dare.I don't know what kind of stores or libraries you have in your area, but i doubt it will take that long.LOL
Harper wrote: "I loved the first three books and think they live up to the hype. I thought the fourth one was good, but I didn't love it. I was okay with the fifth book until the ending, which I hated. As for boo..."You mean the smokin' hot sex disappears?!?!?! That's why I'm reading them ;) Seriously, I'll be very disappointed if the books cross over to UF - that's the biggest problem I have with the Sookie books. I'd like them to be more paranormal romance than urban fantasy. Hope that doesn't happen with the BDB books.
Tammy wrote: "You mean the smokin' hot sex disappears?!?!?! That's why I'm reading them ;) Seriously, I'll be very disappointed if the books cross over to UF - that's the biggest problem I have with the Sookie books. I'd like them to be more paranormal romance than urban fantasy. Hope that doesn't happen with the BDB books."There's still sex. ;) What changes is the romance element. Later books definitely go from PNR to UF. The labels on the spines even change. From what I hear, J.R. Ward always wanted the series to be UF. In a couple of forums I've seen it mentioned that she essentially started them off as romance just to build up a fanbase, but I don't know how true that is. Still, there's no denying that when you get to around book #5, the romance starts getting pushed further and further into the background and all of the other sub-plots come into the foreground. I was serious when I said in my earlier comment that the couple in "Lover Enshrined" barely have any scenes together compared to the overall length of the book.
That's true, the romance is secondary. It doesn't mean that they don't have some really hot sex scenes though. That in my opinion got better.
I really do need to go back and reread the series, my memory is not all that great. But I do remember a nice romance because it was so difficult for the two of them. I don't want to spoil anything but it was nice to have the substance with the romance (and hot sex too!). Rossy, in terms of when to start, since i'll be rereading it doesn't really matter to me. I can read BDB while I'm reading something else.
OH THANK GOD! Just kidding - although I'd be lying if I said I didn't start skim-reading as soon as someone smells baby powder...I am first and foremost a romance reader and that was what I liked about the first 3 books. A couple of Harper's and Rossy's observations about the series going from PNR to UF got me to thinking, though, and at the risk of annoying you all, can I share?
I can understand how the basic story arc for each book would get really old by the 10th one or so. Romance novels tend to follow a formula of sorts, after all.
However, (and please don't get mad at me for saying this!) would it be fair to say that if the author can't find a way to tell each of the brother's stories in a way that remains true to the previous books she should put her shitkicker-shod foot down and end the series? I mean, if the series starts as PNR, shouldn't it finish as PNR?
And Harper, if what you've read is correct about Ward's original intent for the series and what she really wanted to do was tell some UF tales but felt she needed to develop a rabid PNR base in order to do so -isn't that really a type of "bait-and-switch"? And isn't that really unfair to the PNR and romance types that bought into the series to begin with?
Yikes - sorry for the rant, ladies! I think I must be more disappointed than I thought in the direction the series takes later on :( Still love the books I have read and will finish the series.
When do we start Dark Lover?
First and foremost the point of the Dare is to discuss the good and the bad. If you can't vent here...well, where can ya vent. So share, share and keep sharing. I won't be able to talk intelligently about the about books until I reread them (and don't get me wrong, the best thing about rereading is that I can skim through the baby powder parts). I look forward to going over this topic when we get to it..
LOL! Rant away Tammy. If we can't express our opinions about a certain book, series or author here really where can we? I think as long as we respect the author and fellow readers/members there's nothing wrong. In my opinion, i still feel like the stories are PNR. I tend to think that genre labels regarding what kind of stories a book may be are due to personal use. I'm not a fan of UF, though i've been known to stray and read a book or two in this genre. So for me if the story has romance and action, even if the action is bigger than the romance i will consider it PNR and not UF.
UF for me is one where there's very little romance if at all, i wouldn't say that the later BDB books romance was so small that it qualifies there. Again, this is MY personal opinion. It may be because i enjoy a romance story with some really good action, so i really don't care wether is first or secondary.
Penney wrote: "I really do need to go back and reread the series, my memory is not all that great. But I do remember a nice romance because it was so difficult for the two of them. I don't want to spoil anything ..."Then i think anytime next month should be good. Anyone can jump in whenever they are done with the first book. Wether it's a re-read or first time doesn't matter. I may not be doing another re-read then but i'll jump in and participate as soon as someone else has.
Tammy, Rant away! That’s what this thread is for. I actually agree with everything you said. The change in the books did feel like a bait-and-switch (and there are a lot of people who think so). Don’t get me wrong, there is still a romantic subplot in later books, but it’s not the same as in books 1-4 when the romance took precedence to everything else. I think - and this is just my speculation based on what I’ve heard- that perhaps J.R. Ward did want to write UF the whole time and either she decided, or perhaps her publishers urged her, to lean more toward the romance in the beginning because, let’s face it, romance is the best-selling book genre. Period.
I’ve come to that conclusion because the lessening of the romance in each book is definitely noticeable. Being that I am, first and foremost, a romance fan, the change has hampered my overall enjoyment of the series. See, I’m also a fan of UF and if the series had started UF, that would have been one thing. But since the series started as paranormal romance, I think it should have stayed there and maybe she should have just written romances for all of the original brothers and then did a UF spin-off with all of the new recruits, like John Matthew and everyone else. But at this point, it is what it is. I’m still a fan of the series and “Lover Eternal” and “Lover Awakened” are two of my all-time favorite paranormal romances.
For what it’s worth, here are my two-cents with regards to the difference between UF and PNR:
Urban fantasy can - and often does - contain romantic subplots, but not always. The main difference between UF and PNR with concern to the couple/romance is that there is no guaranteed HEA *and* the pairings can change throughout a series, like with Sookie Stackhouse. UF focuses more on the individual character, like Sookie, and the action. But with PNR, the focus is 80-90% on the couple and their relationship and everything else is secondary. That’s why I say that the BDB has gone from PNR to UF, because there’s no denying that romance is still a part of the series, but it’s not all about the main couple anymore (although I have no doubt that all of them will still end with a HEA).
If you want to read about the differences between UF, PNR, and books that blur the line, a couple of bloggers did a two-part article about it this past week. I thought they did a good job explaining.
Part One - http://www.dirtysexybooks.com/Dirty_S...
Part Two - http://allthingsurbanfantasy.blogspot...
i'm readnig dark lover right now, so I might jump in on the discussions!
Good, let us know what you think whenever you'd like DD!
I've read all the books out in the series thus far, with the exception of Lover Mine of course (I have it on pre-order) I love the series and definitely think it lives up to the hype, however, I am a fan so naturally I would think so. As far as the vampire mythos (or whatever) I always struggle to imagine romantic leads as the vampires I grew up with, i.e. Dracula. But to me the Brothers are something very special and different altogether.
My favorite book in the series is Lover Awakened. It was the first book I read in the series and was hooked instantly. I have since then gone back and read all the books in order.
I am most excited for JM's story since we've been in his head since the beginning and I absolutely love the pairing of him with Xhex.
The only other "vampire" series I have read are the Argeneau/Immortal Hunter series by Lynsay Sands and of course the Twilight Saga which got me started on the the whole "romantic vampires" kick in the first place.
For my money, storywise, I would have to rank Twilight first (first loves and all that) then the DBD, then Lynsay Sands vamps. However, I'm really only a huge fan of the first book in the Twilight saga, the others just don't do much for me. So in terms of series, BDB is top of the list hands down.
Yayyy, I'm about to start reading Lover Eternal. I love when authors aren't afraid to go against the grain when it comes to vampire legends. I love that these vampires eat food, feed on each other (as opposed to humans), mate and have sex...oh and have sex. LOL Tammy, thats hilarious because I skim too when baby powder is mentioned! LOL
Gigi, "Lover Eternal" is my second favorite book in the series. I'll be looking forward to your opinion once you're done. :)
Harper wrote: There's still sex. ;) What changes is the romance element. Later books definitely go from PNR to UF. The labels on the spines even change. From what I hear, J.R. Ward always wanted the series to be UF. In a couple of forums I've seen it mentioned that she essentially started them off as romance just to build up a fanbase, but I don't know how true that is. Still, there's no denying that when you get to around book #5, the romance starts getting pushed further and further into the background and all of the other sub-plots come into the foreground. I was serious when I said in my earlier comment that the couple in "Lover Enshrined" barely have any scenes together compared to the overall length of the book. I'm going to stick my neck out here and will actually share an opinion. : )
I'm a huge fan of the BDB books, and I'm pretty familiar of many readers complaining about how the books have switched from PNR into UF territory.
Now let me prefaced my response by saying that what I'm sharing are only my conclusions, and nothing else.
The books started out as PNR, and I still believe that is the genre it will remain. Many readers feel just because the action and the overaching plot and the many characters have expanded to the point it sometimes overshadow the romance, it is now Urban Fantasy. They might have a valid point but I'm politely disagreeing. I still believe the books are basically romance books, even the future books are touted by couples' names, which ultimately says there is an HEA for each book.
Ward's roots are in romance, and this might be coming off left field, but I see her writing following more in the footsteps of one of her favorite writers, Suz Brockmann, who writes romantic suspense. Both writers have a huge canon of characters, characters that we like to know what's happening with them, even as we want to know how the plot progresses, and at the same time, we want to enjoy the romantic entaglements of the featured couple in each book. Juggling all these elements in each book, plus the multiple POVs can be a major challenge to a writer. Sometimes the weaving of the plot supercedes other elements and the romance gets buried underneath all the action. Still, at the end of the book, there is a resolution to the featured relationship and the required HEA meets the requirement of a romance novel. So with that in mind, I think the BDB books will remain in the PNR category.
*goes back to lurking in this thread*
NO YZ! Dont lurk!!!!! As a person completely new to the BDB series, I'm soaking in all of the different opinions and enjoying all of them.
I agree Yz. I think the books will always remain romance. As for the action and suspense elements taking a front seat, well, I don't have a problem with that. If you look around al the BDB threads out there, there is always someone who says, "I wish we saw more of the Brother's after their original story is finished." Ward slightly changing her look on the books helps accomplish this like with Wrath and Beth in Lover Avenged. Personally, I love that Ward is reaching out and giving us more news on the old Brothers and their new action, while still sticking solidly to the main couple and their HEA. Just a thought.
Yz the Whyz wrote: "I'm a huge fan of the BDB books, and I'm pretty familiar of many readers complaining about how the books have switched from PNR into UF territory.Now let me prefaced my response by saying that what I'm sharing are only my conclusions, and nothing else.
The books started out as PNR, and I still believe that is the genre it will remain. Many readers feel just because the action and the overaching plot and the many characters have expanded to the point it sometimes overshadow the romance, it is now Urban Fantasy. They might have a valid point but I'm politely disagreeing. I still believe the books are basically romance books, even the future books are touted by couples' names, which ultimately says there is an HEA for each book."
Feel free to post your opinion, YZ. I don’t expect that everyone would agree with my take on how the BDB has changed. I think it’s all subjective. For me, despite the fact that the characters get a HEA (which is something that is possible in an Urban Fantasy, too), I feel like the romance element is too overshadowed to consider the series PNR anymore. That’s not to say I’m not a fan of the series - I still enjoy it and I count “Lover Eternal” and “Lover Awakened” as two of my favorite paranormal romances hands down - but I do admit that I find the romance to be lacking in the more recent books.
I think the BDB series has become one of those that blurs the line between UF and PNR. I’m a fan of both genres. What bothers me in this case is not that I don’t enjoy all of the action/character perspectives/etc, but that, in my opinion, when a book is supposed to be a “romance” and is listed as part of the genre, I always like the focus to be mainly on the couple and everything else as an aside. This is, of course, my personal view on romance novels overall, not just the BDB. Even if you read romantic suspense, like Anne Stuart’s “Ice Series” for example, you can definitely tell that the action/suspense element is the subplot and the development of the relationship is in the forefront. I believe it was that way in the first four books in the BDB, but I don’t think that’s the case any longer. But, like I said, we won’t all agree on the matter and I respect that. And, of course, I can see your perspective. If when categorizing these books you disregard everything else and focus on the fact that there is a main couple and they do eventually get their HEA, then I guess it’s right to keep the PNR label. Regardless of how I feel the series has changed, I started out a fan and still consider myself to be one.
That's great Harper! That means that the discussions can continue to be lively and passionate. I for one have enjoyed the debate. To be honest when I first read the series I didn't know a thing about PNR, UF or any other sub-genre, I was just enjoying some of my first steps into the vast world of "Romance" (how lucky was I that it happened to be with BDB and Sookie). As I continue to delve into the genre, it's different views like these that widen my horizons keep me looking for more. I look forward to discussing each book with this group. It should prove to be a fun learning experience! ;)
Right on, Harper! I completely agree with your comments on romance generally and the "Ice Series" (I just read Cold As Ice and enjoyed it quite a bit). Can I also just say how much I am LOVING this discussion! It is so much more than all of us just drooling over the Brothers and gushing about how much we love the books. Although I have so far only read the first three, and admittedly am more than a little disappointed in hearing about the direction the books will be taking after about #4 or #5, I am a fan, and will remain so. I intend to read the entire series - so maybe by then my (admittedly strong) opinions will be a bit more educated than they are now.
There are many other things to discuss about the BDB - like what does it say about us as females that we get all flush-faced and sweaty reading about men that in real life would have us calling the police (LOL)? Or wtf is with the endless "shitkicker" references? For God's sake can't they wear regular footwear?
I should answer the original questions posed on this thread -- I think Ward's vision of the vampire hierarchy, her language and customs, etc. are incredibly unique. A delicious spin on the conventional vampire and all the accompanying symbolism. The only thing missing is the sense of danger to the heroine that the traditional vampire poses - biting her won't kill her after all, and her blood won't sustain him. The only downside to Ward's world, IMHO, is that with the BDB you could substitute biker for vampire and have pretty much the same story. Not that that's a bad thing, you understand ;)
I haven't read any other vampire series besides Sookie Stackhouse so I can't compare -- who else writes (good) vampire?
Tammy wrote: "I haven't read any other vampire series besides Sookie Stackhouse so I can't compare -- who else writes (good) vampire?"I love Kresley Cole's Immortals After Dark series! It features vampires, werewolves, valkyrie, witches, demons, and other creatures. It's a hot series! The first in the series is a novella called "The Warlord Wants Forever," which you can read here for free. The second is A Hunger Like No Other. My favorites in that series are Wicked Deeds on a Winter's Night and Dark Needs at Night's Edge (#4 and #5), but I love almost all of the books.
There are many other things to discuss about the BDB - like what does it say about us as females that we get all flush-faced and sweaty reading about men that in real life would have us calling the police (LOL)?
I really don't know what it is. In reality, most of the heroes in PNR would have me running for the hills with all of their possessive, stalker-ish behavior. But, at the same time, I've never known a man like that in real life (thankfully?), so I don't know if I'd be calling the cops or if I'd too busy drooling to do anything more than nod "yes" to whatever the guy was saying. LOL.
Harper wrote: "In reality, most of the heroes in PNR would have me running for the hills with all of their possessive, stalker-ish behaviour.I think the same can be said for historical romances as well - there are some pretty bossy bastards running around in that genre (and I LOVE them!).
I'm with you on the real life - I'd be the girl thinking she should call the cops, while nodding "yes" to everything the guy was saying.
When the dominant, alpha-male became politically incorrect in historicals and contemporary romance, authors just simply transported them to the paranormal, where reality can be suspended for a while. : )So he is possessive and stalkerish? Chalk it up for him being a vampire, a were or a fey. What we will not forgive in a normal guy, an outworldly male can get away with. :)
Gosh am LOVING this discussion! It's true the dominant, alpha-male seems to be key in romance books of many genres these days. Still we see some readers complaining about how the man's actions sometimes border, if not are rape or abuse. If i judged the hero on a real-life scale, i would have to agree. Thankfully am too busy drooling after the description about said hero, and my mind automatically transports me to fictionland. Where i am the heroine and like the author is telling me, the heroine(me) really likes it. *laughs*
Just the other day my friend Jim asked how books have changed us. I had to think about this for a bit because although i knew there have been some changes, i never associated those changes to books. Silly me, because i hadn't thought about books other than the enjoyment they were providing for me. Here is a link to the thread if anyone is interested: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...
Thanks for the link, Rossy. I'd been planning on responding to his question!
Yz the Whyz wrote: "When the dominant, alpha-male became politically incorrect in historicals and contemporary romance, authors just simply transported them to the paranormal, where reality can be suspended for a whil..."I think you are exactly right! Maybe that's why I'm still kinda partial to the "old skool" HR (sshh, don't tell anyone!).
With PNR, this way the H can still be a PBB (pretty bossy bastard, see my post above) but can drive a car instead of riding a horse.
Rossy ~*~ Ehrotic ~*~ wrote: "Gosh am LOVING this discussion! It's true the dominant, alpha-male seems to be key in romance books of many genres these days. Still we see some readers complaining about how the man's actions ..."
I guess people who read romance novels for the reality of them (yeah, right!) would get upset about the PBB and their sometimes over the top behaviour. However, in my version of romancelandia, the PBB (or hero) ALWAYS redeems himself and recognizes just what a PBB he was. Or kind of recognizes, in the case of an old skool HR.
Or maybe I'm just warped. ;)
Tammy wrote: "I guess people who read romance novels for the reality of them (yeah, right!) would get upset about the PBB and their sometimes over the top behaviour. However, in my version of romancelandia, the PBB (or hero) ALWAYS redeems himself and recognizes just what a PBB he was. Or kind of recognizes, in the case of an old skool HR. Or maybe I'm just warped. ;)"
Romancelandia? LOL. I like that.
If you're warped, I am, too. :) I'm a fan of historicals and old skool romance and the dominant, bossy heroes, especially when they learn their lesson.
Good series. I liked the first couple of books, but it started reminding me of SK's series especially "Acheron." I can't even think of that book without shuddering.Anway, I can't get past Phury's book, I think I'll skip it and come back to it later.
ALL of the books up to that point have good story lines, great sex scenes, and snappy dialogue.
I do, however, tend to skip the parts with the Lessers-that stuff is just boring, I'm sorry, but it is to me!
So...should I just suffer through Phury's story (What a blech character he is. I have NEVER really liked him. Sacrifice or no.) or can someone just tell me what pages to read; so, I won't be behind when I read the next story?
Just kidding...kinda.
Peace.
Alexis wrote: "Good series. I liked the first couple of books, but it started reminding me of SK's series especially "Acheron." I can't even think of that book without shuddering.Anway, I can't get past Phury..."
Alexis, I feel where you're coming from. "Lover Enshrined" was the only book in the series that I can outright say I didn't like. I hated the ending of "Lover Unbound," but I mostly enjoyed it up to that point. I think I skipped a good 90% of the Lesser scenes in "Lover Enshrined." It's the only BDB book that I've given a bad rating, though I haven't read "Lover Avenged" or "Lover Mine" yet, so I guess that remains to be seen. LOL.
I'm with Harper on Phury's book. Really not my favorite in the series.
I agreed with you all until my reread before Lover Mine. I went back in with a different mind set. I looked at it totally from Phury's struggle and Cormia's spark. I really think that book depends on how you go at it. Plus I guess I just caught more detail the second time and it really helped me enjoy it more. (Minus the Lesser stuff.)
so I just finished Dark Lover - I can't believe waht I had been missing out on by not reading them...lol! i think i am addicting - although i'm going to try and not rush through the series, because i don't want to get burnt out
I'm going to try and not rush through the series because I don't want to get burnt out.Ladies, is that possible!!? LOL
Romance Readers Reading Challenges
Books mentioned in this topic
Lover Mine (other topics)Lover Avenged (other topics)
Lover Avenged (other topics)
Lover Enshrined (other topics)
Lover Enshrined (other topics)
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Author: J.R. Ward
Discussion: Do you feel the series live up to all the hype you've been hearing about? How do you feel about Ward's vampire version? Is it better or worse than other vampire series?
Duration: 8 months
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