The Infernal Devices discussion
Team Will vs. Team Jem
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Mel
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Dec 14, 2012 03:18PM

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Sam wrote: "Jem is a nice guy but i think he is sort of selfish for trying to involve Tessa with him even when he knows he is dying. That is not true love if he has no hesitations to put her through so much pain."
But that's the thing: Jem warned Tessa that he's being selfish if he she chose to marry him.
In page 430 of CP, Jem said the following:
"You speak of sacrifice, but it is not my sacrifice I offer. It is yours I ask of you," he went on. "I can offer you my life, but it is a short life; I can offer you my heart, though I have no idea how many beats it shall sustain. But I love you enough to hope that that you will not care that I am being selfish in trying to make the rest of my life—whatever its length—happy, by spending it with you."
*Fans self* Excuse me as I go swoon...
*After swooning*
Anyway, my point is that Jem didn't force OR guilt Tessa into anything—she made the choice herself. Jem WARNED her that he was being "selfish" by asking her to marry him, and leaving her at a young age. Yet Tessa still accepted his proposal.
No offense to anyone in this discussion, but I'm kind of getting sick and tired of some people complaining about how Jem is selfish by making the first move on Tessa, knowing he's about to "die". (I really don't believe Cassie's going to kill him off.)
Uh, guys? How about Will?
Wasn't HE selfish when he asked Tessa to break it off with Jem, after learning the two were engaged?
Check it out on page 469 to page 471, if you don't believe me.
And before any Team Will girl kills me, allow to say this: I LOVE Will. I absolutely adore him! Heck, I was a hardcore Team Will girl in CA, and barely gave a second glance towards Jem!
And even when I converted to a Team Jem girl, it was with great difficulty! It was not only the first time I EVER changed sides in a love triangle (or LOVED both guys equally), but it was from Will Friggin Herondale—aka, my total (book) dream guy!
In fact, I claimed I was still a "Team Will girl" after CP, and tried to ignore my new found feelings for Jem until I couldn't stand any it longer, and had to admit that I enjoyed the Tessa x Jem moments more than the Tessa x Will moments. (Although I have a strong suspicion Tessa won't end up with anyone in the end.)
So if anyone is thinking I'm hating on Will—I'm not. I adore the dude as much as Jem. They're both selfless guys, with a lot of admirable traits. Tessa is lucky to have both of them in her life, and all I can say is that I'm super jealous of her.
Where the heck can I get my own pair of Jems and Wills?!
But that's the thing: Jem warned Tessa that he's being selfish if he she chose to marry him.
In page 430 of CP, Jem said the following:
"You speak of sacrifice, but it is not my sacrifice I offer. It is yours I ask of you," he went on. "I can offer you my life, but it is a short life; I can offer you my heart, though I have no idea how many beats it shall sustain. But I love you enough to hope that that you will not care that I am being selfish in trying to make the rest of my life—whatever its length—happy, by spending it with you."
*Fans self* Excuse me as I go swoon...
*After swooning*
Anyway, my point is that Jem didn't force OR guilt Tessa into anything—she made the choice herself. Jem WARNED her that he was being "selfish" by asking her to marry him, and leaving her at a young age. Yet Tessa still accepted his proposal.
No offense to anyone in this discussion, but I'm kind of getting sick and tired of some people complaining about how Jem is selfish by making the first move on Tessa, knowing he's about to "die". (I really don't believe Cassie's going to kill him off.)
Uh, guys? How about Will?
Wasn't HE selfish when he asked Tessa to break it off with Jem, after learning the two were engaged?
Check it out on page 469 to page 471, if you don't believe me.
And before any Team Will girl kills me, allow to say this: I LOVE Will. I absolutely adore him! Heck, I was a hardcore Team Will girl in CA, and barely gave a second glance towards Jem!
And even when I converted to a Team Jem girl, it was with great difficulty! It was not only the first time I EVER changed sides in a love triangle (or LOVED both guys equally), but it was from Will Friggin Herondale—aka, my total (book) dream guy!
In fact, I claimed I was still a "Team Will girl" after CP, and tried to ignore my new found feelings for Jem until I couldn't stand any it longer, and had to admit that I enjoyed the Tessa x Jem moments more than the Tessa x Will moments. (Although I have a strong suspicion Tessa won't end up with anyone in the end.)
So if anyone is thinking I'm hating on Will—I'm not. I adore the dude as much as Jem. They're both selfless guys, with a lot of admirable traits. Tessa is lucky to have both of them in her life, and all I can say is that I'm super jealous of her.
Where the heck can I get my own pair of Jems and Wills?!

But Jem... Oh, Jem. <3 What I don't like is when people pity him and say he should get Tessa because he only has so long to live and all that. Jem would hate all that gushy pity. He deserves Tessa because he is absolutely and completely selfless, and because in my opinion, he loves her more than Will does, if only by a little.
What I would give to be with Jem...

And you're probably thinking, Jem will get hurt. But Will hasn't admitted to him that he likes Tessa, and he never will. That's not selfish. He also won't ever wed Tessa after Jem's death, which is what a lot of you are saying.
As for the "ultimate boy" thing with Will, I don't like guys because of their looks. I like Will because he makes me laugh, and he's sensitive. I'm not a Jem hater, Jem's great too, but Tessa deserves to be with who she really loves, and you can tell it's Will. Then two people will be happy, and I'm SURE Cassandra Clare won't leave Jem in a ditch to die alone.

Mel wrote: "I agree. Jem was definitely not selfish. I love him with all my heart and soul. AND THAT QUOTE IS SO BEAUTIFUL! <3 Although, I don't believe Will was selfish either. After that whole struggle with ..."
LOL. :P
I never really meant that I thought Will himself is selfish; just rather that he does have his selfish moments at times.
Besides, I kind of knew he was speaking out of... well, hurt, when he said what he said, due to the fact that he was being rejected after finally being "able" to love again. *Facepalm, and mutters, "Idiot—HOT idiot."*
And Will totally made up for that moment at the dinner table when Jem and Tessa announced their engagement (and even before that when he talked to Jem). :)
I just wanted to state that people should give Jem a break, and stop saying he pressured Tessa into marrying him—he didn't.
LOL. :P
I never really meant that I thought Will himself is selfish; just rather that he does have his selfish moments at times.
Besides, I kind of knew he was speaking out of... well, hurt, when he said what he said, due to the fact that he was being rejected after finally being "able" to love again. *Facepalm, and mutters, "Idiot—HOT idiot."*
And Will totally made up for that moment at the dinner table when Jem and Tessa announced their engagement (and even before that when he talked to Jem). :)
I just wanted to state that people should give Jem a break, and stop saying he pressured Tessa into marrying him—he didn't.
Lo♪ wrote: "I enjoy Jem and Tessa moments too (because Cassie is SUCH A GOOD AUTHOR) but I have to admit, I still think she should end up with Will. As selfish as Will may have been, sometimes people need to b..."
LOL. No worries, sweetie—I still love Will despite his narcissist- and selfish- ways at times (heck, I was a Tessa X Will shipper when Will was a total JERK to Tessa; kind of makes me question my taste in guys, now that I think about it... ).
I guess I just switched to Jem because I liked his and Tessa's relationship better: first friends, then slowly developing into love.
As much as Will is funny, good-looking, and has a big, big heart (as well as a love for literature :P), I dunno... I guess I'm kind of hoping for something new in the love triangle world, in which the girl doesn't end up with the bad boy in the end.
Still, my heart DID break for Will when he was rejected. :( Then again, my heart was ALSO rejoicing for Jem... -_-
Cassandra Clare, what have you to done to me?!
LOL. No worries, sweetie—I still love Will despite his narcissist- and selfish- ways at times (heck, I was a Tessa X Will shipper when Will was a total JERK to Tessa; kind of makes me question my taste in guys, now that I think about it... ).
I guess I just switched to Jem because I liked his and Tessa's relationship better: first friends, then slowly developing into love.
As much as Will is funny, good-looking, and has a big, big heart (as well as a love for literature :P), I dunno... I guess I'm kind of hoping for something new in the love triangle world, in which the girl doesn't end up with the bad boy in the end.
Still, my heart DID break for Will when he was rejected. :( Then again, my heart was ALSO rejoicing for Jem... -_-
Cassandra Clare, what have you to done to me?!

See? She's amazing!
I guess that's true, but every cruel thing Will did was for a reason. And I guess since I went in the series already knowing what happened, that gives Will an advantage. But he just really makes me laugh, and that's one of my most important traits in people.

*nods* Yep. ;)
Jem... <3
Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "I enjoy Jem and Tessa moments too (because Cassie is SUCH A GOOD AUTHOR) but I have to admit, I still think she should end up with Will. As selfish as Will may have been, som..."
That's actually one of the reasons I overlooked Will's faults in CA: I suspected he had a crappy past like his many-greats grandson did in TMI.
The second reason why I overlooked Will's faults in CA was due to his humor. You're right about a sense of humor being an important trait—it's a great thing to find in someone. But I also think people who can listen, without judging, is another great trait to find and have too. :)
That's actually one of the reasons I overlooked Will's faults in CA: I suspected he had a crappy past like his many-greats grandson did in TMI.
The second reason why I overlooked Will's faults in CA was due to his humor. You're right about a sense of humor being an important trait—it's a great thing to find in someone. But I also think people who can listen, without judging, is another great trait to find and have too. :)

DEFINITELY true, though I suspect Will could listen, but if I had to choose the better one it would be Jem. Besides, his hair is cool too. It's just Will's hair and eyes are my favorite combo, and as much as I'm not interested in people because of their looks, that's just a plus really.
Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "I enjoy Jem and Tessa moments too (because Cassie is SUCH A GOOD AUTHOR) but I have to admit, I still think she should end up with Will. As selfish as ..."
Oh my God! :D Me too!
Not to sound shallow or anything (yeah, right), but the first thing that drew me to Will was his looks! Blue (or gray) eyes, with black hair is my favorite combo for a guy! XD
Oh my God! :D Me too!
Not to sound shallow or anything (yeah, right), but the first thing that drew me to Will was his looks! Blue (or gray) eyes, with black hair is my favorite combo for a guy! XD

And apparently, Magnus claimed it was his too! Which is why I guess he likes Alec so much...they're my favorite couple in Cassandra Clare's books


That was a lot of exclamation marks and Os, if I may note.
Question: Is your name really Tessa, or did you make it Tessa based on our very own Tessa Gray?
Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "I enjoy Jem and Tessa moments too (because Cassie is SUCH A GOOD AUTHOR) but I have to admit, I still think she should end up wi..."
Hehehe... about that...
I was crushing on Alec before I met Will—and that was after learning he's a hopeless case for girls everywhere.
So I guess Magnus and I have the same taste in men, huh? *Mental image of me and Magnus getting pedicures and discussing guy troubles.* Interesting...
Hehehe... about that...
I was crushing on Alec before I met Will—and that was after learning he's a hopeless case for girls everywhere.
So I guess Magnus and I have the same taste in men, huh? *Mental image of me and Magnus getting pedicures and discussing guy troubles.* Interesting...

Haha I can't even imagine.
I was introduced to this series by my book-y friend because she knew I had no intention of reading it.
LOOK WHAT HAPPENED THERE.
So I basically knew the whole Love Triangle in TID already, and about Alec.
Who I also love.
They're gonna ruin him in the movie, I can just feel it.
Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "Ro wrote: "Lo♪ wrote: "I enjoy Jem and Tessa moments too (because Cassie is SUCH A GOOD AUTHOR) but I have to admit, I still thi..."
Hmmm? Sorry. Too busy staring into Simon's sea green eyes from the trailer...
Right. Anyway.
LOL. I'm a book addict, and so are some of my friends. They thrust the TMI series to me last year, and I took it from there. TMI was actually how I knew there was going to be a love triangle in TID. I'm sometimes even able to link the TMI world with the TID one at time (although TID is by far the better of the two). There's also going to be a love triangle with Miss Emma Carstairs in The Secret Artifices. We'll see how well that will work out.
Hmmm? Sorry. Too busy staring into Simon's sea green eyes from the trailer...
Right. Anyway.
LOL. I'm a book addict, and so are some of my friends. They thrust the TMI series to me last year, and I took it from there. TMI was actually how I knew there was going to be a love triangle in TID. I'm sometimes even able to link the TMI world with the TID one at time (although TID is by far the better of the two). There's also going to be a love triangle with Miss Emma Carstairs in The Secret Artifices. We'll see how well that will work out.

about tessa being immortal, im having that feeling that Casie already got a sollution for that. remember the part @ city of lost souls where Magnus introduce the idea that it is possible for an immortal to be mortal? it is possible that Tessa would trade her immortality for Jem (im not sure but maybe being mortal could make her a normal human being and can possibly have kids with Jem thus creating the character of Emma Carstairs)and my poor Will ... i still cant accept the possibility of him becoming a silent brother. . . anyway, one of the reason why i came up with this sad conclusion is because of the Tale of two Cities used by Cassie at ID. was she inspired by the characters in the story? if she was, then its going to be a sad ending for us team Will . . . :{
Enelra wrote: "Team Will here!
about tessa being immortal, im having that feeling that Casie already got a sollution for that. remember the part @ city of lost souls where Magnus introduce the idea that it is pos..."
Look at the bright side: he's single then. ;)
about tessa being immortal, im having that feeling that Casie already got a sollution for that. remember the part @ city of lost souls where Magnus introduce the idea that it is pos..."
Look at the bright side: he's single then. ;)

about tessa being immortal, im having that feeling that Casie already got a sollution for that. remember the part @ city of lost souls where Magnus introduce the idea..."
You're right there gurl! But I still wish that Will will end up with Tessa. They're so right for each other. just dont want to put all my hopes on it though ... :(

Cant remember the part about a silent brother with blue eyes...there's a silent brother with emotion from city of lost souls (sorry, forgot his name) but he wasnt described as having a blue eyes.

Yes, my name is really Teesa ,short for Teresa!! thats the reason I read Clockwork Angle!Sorry about my O's!
GO TEAM JEM!!!!!

There is? NOOO! Why?
Oh well. She's probably going to end up with the person who she's not in love with.

about tessa being immortal, im having that feeling that Casie already got a sollution for that. remember the part @ city of lost souls where Magnus introduce the idea that it is pos..."
Great team.
But I know Tessa's still immortal. Remember in City of Glass, the extra story, where Magnus was seen talking to a brown haired girl for two seconds before Clary came? That was Tessa. Cassie said so herself.


If she ends up with Jem, all of Team Will will be heartbroken, and even some team Jem people will be sorry for Will. After all he's been through, he still didn't even get the girl.
If she ends up with Will, Team Jem will be unhappy and even Team Will won't be happy because Cassie would have either made her abandon a dying man, break Jem's beautiful heart or move on from dead Jem too quickly.
It's impossible to create a happy ending with this series!

If she ends up with Jem, ..."
But Cassandra Clare's like a genius, so hopefully something works out.

But then I love Jem as well so like Lauren said, I won't be 100% happy with whoever Tessa ends up with...
Can't wait for Clockwork Princess though :)


1.) TESSA ENDS UP WITH NEITHER OF THEM
2.) TESSA IS AN EXCEPTION THE NO CHILDREN RULE, SO THEN WII AND JEM ARE BOTH FAIR GAME!!!
PERSONALLY, I AM TEAM WILL<3
I really like both so whoever ends up with Tessa I will be happy but if I had to choose, I've always been one for Jem. :)
Roo wrote: "Team Will!! I looove him!!!!"
I second that! Will all the way!
I second that! Will all the way!

TEAM WILL FTW!!!!! I love him so much!!! I'm reading, or was reading, Clockwork Angel and Clockwork Prince, I ask myself, "Will, why aren't you real?"
Anyways, he's perfect fo..."
He's just like perfection. He fits every single one of my favorite traits in the opposite sex. He still makes mistakes, but the way he goes about them still equals perfection.

TEAM WILL FTW!!!!! I love him so much!!! I'm reading, or was reading, Clockwork Angel and Clockwork Prince, I ask myself, "Will, why aren't you real?"
Anyways, he's perfect fo..."
Lo♪ wrote: "abigail wrote: "Roo wrote: "Team Will!! I looove him!!!!"
I second that! Will all the way!"
Third it."
The i fifth it:)

wondering why well tell me which way you guy..."
I agree. These are some pretty amazing reasons for loving Will.

"By the Angel, it's like the ninth ring of Hell down here-"
"The ninth ring of Hell is cold," Tessa said automatically.
Will stared at her. "What?"
"In the Inferno," she told him. "Hell is cold. It's covered in ice."
And I love how Will acts like he doesn't know what she is talking about when she talks about a book but he really does know.
Angela wrote: "Team Jem!!! <3"
You're all alone here....i feel bad. Wait, can i actually vote for 2 guys? Like what if Jem and Will combined? That would be crazy. Now that is like the perfect guy.
You're all alone here....i feel bad. Wait, can i actually vote for 2 guys? Like what if Jem and Will combined? That would be crazy. Now that is like the perfect guy.
Books mentioned in this topic
Clockwork Prince (other topics)City of Ashes (other topics)
Clockwork Prince (other topics)