The Infernal Devices discussion
Team Will vs. Team Jem
Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will has something, a flame that Jem hasn't..."I totally agree! Thank you! Finally, someone who gets my exact point of view on Jem!
I mean, Jem's great and kind and he deserves a great life but I just wish there was a little more to him, I guess...
I wish Tessa would just choose and stop making us suffer and also stop making Will suffer. Poor Will. :(
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I mean, Jem's great and kind and he deserves a great life but I just wish there was a little more to him, I guess..."There is something more to him, and you'll see, in Clockwork Princess.
Maryam wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I mean, Jem's great and kind and he deserves a great life but I just wish there was a little more to him, I guess..."There is something more to him, and you'll see, in C..."
Maybe, but I think this is just the way he is. He's really great and sweet but it's a little abstract when I can sum him up in two words. Will and him are very similar except that Will is more funny, sarcastic, outgoing, and daring than Jem. This is just the way I see both of them. I can connect with Will but not with Jem.
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I mean, Jem's great and kind and he deserves a great life but I just wish there was a little more to him, I guess..."There is something more to him, and y..."
I agree with I mean I just don't really connect with Jem
I think so far Jem's character has been a little too perfect and nice which seems unrealistic and thats why some of find it harder to relate to him. Will is flawed and therefore seems more human and thus relatable. It is ironic how Will spends most of the time trying to hide his true feelings and in the process becomes the character we probably know most about.
Will spent a lot of his time acting unpleasant so he could protect those around him. It cost him his happiness and he's been forced to hide his true feelings for so long. As a result Will has felt deprived of love for many years.
Jem works hard to maintain his composure despite all that's happened to him for the benefit of others. I don't think Jem is perfect. He gets angry and upset too, and it takes a lot of effort to always be the understanding and "nice" one even though it seems like everything around you is crumbling. He's taken for granted.
I think both guys are very selfless and they've each displayed that in different ways. Jem's way of showing it is just less obvious. Maybe he feels like smashing his violin all the time, who knows. Maybe it seems unrealistic, but to me it's very admirable.
Jem works hard to maintain his composure despite all that's happened to him for the benefit of others. I don't think Jem is perfect. He gets angry and upset too, and it takes a lot of effort to always be the understanding and "nice" one even though it seems like everything around you is crumbling. He's taken for granted.
I think both guys are very selfless and they've each displayed that in different ways. Jem's way of showing it is just less obvious. Maybe he feels like smashing his violin all the time, who knows. Maybe it seems unrealistic, but to me it's very admirable.
Rayzel wrote: "Will spent a lot of his time acting unpleasant so he could protect those around him. It cost him his happiness and he's been forced to hide his true feelings for so long. As a result Will has felt ..."Beautifully said. He almost did destroy his violin :( HIS GORGEOUS VIOLIN OH NO HE CAN'T CUZ HE PLAYS IT SO WELL!
They are up against each other next in the YA sisterhood crush tourney!! I seriously don't know who to vote for....
Dayna wrote: "They are up against each other next in the YA sisterhood crush tourney!! I seriously don't know who to vote for...."JEM!!
Holy cow I can't believe Jem beat Magnus... That's truly a shock to me. No offense to Jem, I just... Wow. *blinks*
"The Breeze" wrote: "Holy cow I can't believe Jem beat Magnus... That's truly a shock to me. No offense to Jem, I just... Wow. *blinks*"It was no shocker to me. It was kind of obvious, I think.
I voted for Jem over Magnus but when it is between Will and Jem..I'll vote for Will!! :)
I like Will and Jem both, but I'd probably also vote for Will. I know some people are really getting tired of guys who act like jerks a lot of the time, but it just sorta fit with Will. And once you knew how he was feeling, it also helped. I liked that Will was into books and poetry, making his character more interesting. Jem's really sweet, but he's not the most interesting to me. But if I'd be lucky if I met a guy like Jem in real life.
Lauren (purplepandy) wrote: "I like Will and Jem both, but I'd probably also vote for Will. I know some people are really getting tired of guys who act like jerks a lot of the time, but it just sorta fit with Will. And once yo..."I totally agree with you. That's why I like Will so much. But I can't hate Jem. Because if you do you have no soul.
I don't thinkg I would got THAT far because personally, I think it is okay to be annoyed with certain characters, especially if they're fictional. I guess I just want Jem to show a little more emotion, otherwise, he appears more abstract. Yes, there are some scenes where he shows frustration and all but just when you're about to think that this is the opening that Cassie will take to introduce you to this character, it ends. Jem is dying which seriously sucks and I adit, he deserves a great life but . . . no matter how nice he is, I hate to read about him and Tessa because Tessa is not meant for Jem in my eyes, she is meant for Will. And I'll admit something else that I really wasn't too fond of Jem when he proposed. Nope, sorry. Like Tess could have even said no without coming off like a cuss word I don't wanna say but am thinking. Regardless, do I hate Jem? No, he's a very admirable man in soooo many different ways and astonishingly brave what with his nearing death. But he is not up there with my favorites like Will and Jace. Sorry.
Sinead wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will has something, a flame that Jem hasn't..."H..."
I clearly just get really emotional about the topic of Jem. TEAM JEM!
Maryam wrote: "Sinead wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will has something, a flame that Je..."Ahhh... Jem loses. To Will... And... I can't bear the fact any longer. I think I am going to tear up soon.
Flora wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Sinead wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will has something, ..."Waaaaaait, what do you mean Jem loses? In that YA sisterhood thing? That doesn't count, or matter. Jem is better :D
Maryam wrote: "Flora wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Sinead wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will h..."Yes. The sisterhood thingy. And yeah, I guess it doesn't count but... Still. It shows how many Will fans are out there in the whole, wide world.
*waves my hands vigorously
Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will has something, a flame that Jem hasn't..."How can you say ..."
From what I've seen so far I think that you are a Jem fan and it is logical to disagree with me, an absolute Will fan but there is nothing I can do about it. I see that Jem is a great character but too flat for me...Jem is like a lake while Will is like the sea. And I prefer the sea...sorry:)
Christina wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will has something, a flame that Jem hasn't..."H..."
lol it's okay, I'm not gonna bite your head off, I don't understand people's attraction to Will, I mean I like him myself, he's a great guy clearly, but I will prefer Jem over him anyday, but yeah everyone's entitled to their own opinion :)
Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Maryam wrote: "Christina wrote: "Team Will all the way! Jem is kind, generous and always nice to others, a great friend for everyone but that's it.Will has something, a flame that..."Hahaha ok, since you're not gonna bite my head off I can sleep calm at night!:)lol...It is true that Jem and Will are like they are coming from different worlds but that's another interesting part of the books. You don't know who to choose...(but I think we already know who we prefer;)
I am now officially TEAM WILL! will, you sexy beast, you stole my heart
Jem is a nice guy but i think he is sort of selfish for trying to involve Tessa with him even when he knows he is dying. That is not true love if he has no hesitations to put her through so much pain.
Sam wrote: "Jem is a nice guy but i think he is sort of selfish for trying to involve Tessa with him even when he knows he is dying. That is not true love if he has no hesitations to put her through so much pain."huh, never thought of it that way, but now that I think about it it really is selfish. one more reason to be TEAM WILL. whoop! whoop!
Sam wrote: "Jem is a nice guy but i think he is sort of selfish for trying to involve Tessa with him even when he knows he is dying. That is not true love if he has no hesitations to put her through so much pain."Mmm...well that's a good point but I couldn't discribe Jem as selfish just because he is dying and wants to be happy even for this little time. Everyone disorves happiness, don't you think? :)
I think he was selfish there, but he just thought that Tessa felt the same way. I agree that it was kind of selfish to put her in that position. How could she say no? I mean really? He kinda cornered her, even though he didn't mean to. He needed to give her part of an outlet to say no, but he didn't. Hmm....I'm kind of glad that I am not Tessa. And yes, Jem deserves happiness cuz he's so sweet but that proposal was not one of his prized moments.
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "I think he was selfish there, but he just thought that Tessa felt the same way. I agree that it was kind of selfish to put her in that position. How could she say no? I mean really? He kinda corner..."He didn't corner her. She could've said no.
I wish Tessa had said no or at least told Jem that she needed some time to think about it, then she'd see Will and he'd confess his true feelings and everything would be right in the world:) but I guess the plot is more interesting the way it is right now.
1) I didn't think it was that selfish. If someone I loved was dying, I would want to spend every moment possible being by their side, not being pushed away because they want to "protect" me.
For example, Will's curse. Running away from his family and keeping people at a distance doesn't magically make someone stop loving you.
And whether Tessa marries Jem or not is not going to somehow lessen the blow if he dies. Jem is her friend, and it doesn't make him selfish for possibly setting her up for pain because she's going to feel it anyway. If anything, she was fully aware that he could possibly die when she accepted his proposal.
2) I don't think him being ill should be a valid reason to say "yes" to his proposal. In that scene with Tessa we find out that he just wants to be treated like a normal person, and not a sick patient. He wants Tessa to look at him in a romantic light. This leads me to assume that Jem can certainly take a "no" for an answer, even if it would cause him heartache. I'm Team Jem and all but in this case, we should feel less sorry for him.
If pity is the case then honestly, Jem deserves better. I don't understand how the females in love triangles hook up with one guy while still having unresolved feelings for the other. I know that the proposal's purpose probably was just to create drama but if she ends up with Will, then she really should have refused.
For example, Will's curse. Running away from his family and keeping people at a distance doesn't magically make someone stop loving you.
And whether Tessa marries Jem or not is not going to somehow lessen the blow if he dies. Jem is her friend, and it doesn't make him selfish for possibly setting her up for pain because she's going to feel it anyway. If anything, she was fully aware that he could possibly die when she accepted his proposal.
2) I don't think him being ill should be a valid reason to say "yes" to his proposal. In that scene with Tessa we find out that he just wants to be treated like a normal person, and not a sick patient. He wants Tessa to look at him in a romantic light. This leads me to assume that Jem can certainly take a "no" for an answer, even if it would cause him heartache. I'm Team Jem and all but in this case, we should feel less sorry for him.
If pity is the case then honestly, Jem deserves better. I don't understand how the females in love triangles hook up with one guy while still having unresolved feelings for the other. I know that the proposal's purpose probably was just to create drama but if she ends up with Will, then she really should have refused.
Rayzel wrote: "1) I didn't think it was that selfish. If someone I loved was dying, I would want to spend every moment possible being by their side, not being pushed away because they want to "protect" me. For ..."
Omg couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for putting in such good words that I never could have...anyway, I have a bad feeling that Tessa did it out of pity, and that Jem is going to be hurt a lot later :(
Rayzel wrote: "1) I didn't think it was that selfish. If someone I loved was dying, I would want to spend every moment possible being by their side, not being pushed away because they want to "protect" me. For ..."
No what I mean is, is that Tessa is to self-sacrificing to have said no. But anyone would have to agree that Jem wouldn't have expected her to say no. The way he worded it just made it sound as if there was no doubt in his mind that Tessa would have rejected his proposal. And Jem actually states that he wanted to be married but that he probably never would have that chance. If I was Tessa, one reason I wouldn't say no was because he was dying and this was one of his final wishes. She rushed into accepting because she thought Will didn't lover her and I really wished she would've told him that he needed to think about it. And I'm not denying Jem's love for Tessa, I know he'd do anything for her, but when he was proposing he tended to use the word "it" in reference to marriage rather than "her" referring to Tessa. I just noticed that when I re-read that part. I still want him to be happy though and I don't think he deserves to die.
I'm totally anticipating automotons showing up right at the wedding and then later something happening to Jem for him to give his blessing to Will to protect Tessa. I dunno, I just keep thinking something like that will happen.
@Maryam - Thanks :P Yep, her acceptance to his proposal probably will result in more heartbreak than happiness for Jem :(
@Shadowhunter Girl - Yes, and I agree with you. It was a bit rushed and I wish she would've thought it through more before accepting but it brings conflict (two thumbs up) into the book so what can we do :)
@Shadowhunter Girl - Yes, and I agree with you. It was a bit rushed and I wish she would've thought it through more before accepting but it brings conflict (two thumbs up) into the book so what can we do :)
Definantly team Will. He has a very sexy demeanor and reminds me a lot of Jace, my perfect BF if he was real.
Hatter's Girl wrote: "Rayzel wrote: "1) I didn't think it was that selfish. If someone I loved was dying, I would want to spend every moment possible being by their side, not being pushed away because they want to "prot..."I totally agree. I love Jem but how could he not think of how she'd feel after his death?
I love Jem and Will. Tbh, I love Jem more. I'll choose him anytime. But I think Tessa will be happier with Will. Anyone can see that since Clockwork Angel. She's drawn to him from the start. So I think she'll be better off with him no matter how hard it is for me to say that cause I know Jem will suffer!
Cheyanne wrote: "I wish Tessa would just choose and stop making us suffer and also stop making Will suffer. Poor Will. :("I Know right, but in a way its also Will's fault since he keeps pushing her away, but I'm still team Will
Hatter's Girl wrote: "I'm totally anticipating automotons showing up right at the wedding and then later something happening to Jem for him to give his blessing to Will to protect Tessa. I dunno, I just keep thinking so..."That actually happened in a Will/Tessa fan fiction I read
TEAM WIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Infernal Devices
Books mentioned in this topic
Clockwork Prince (other topics)City of Ashes (other topics)
Clockwork Prince (other topics)
How can you say that? :( Jem is special just as much as Will, but in a different kind of way. They are both unique, and each has their own 'flame' if you will.