The Infernal Devices discussion
Team Will vs. Team Jem
Haha, then ur friend has the right idea its no fun knowing the end of a book
Daylighter wrote: "Jade wrote: "Im team jem! Im just sick of reading expected endings. The book could be all types of awesome but the ending is the same in almost all the books i read. Im sick of tall, dark, and broo..."But....Jace is blond.
Ya but he still has that brooding thing going for him, jace is okay... But again expected i feel the same about will
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Lol
I am all for the guys who love books. Although, Jace would have a heart attack if he saw how messy my room was......:)
I'm on Team Will! I was heartwrenched at the end of clockwork prince. he was just that 1 step too late. sigh. I hope things still work out for Tessa and Will.Jem is great and gentle. he's so sweet too but to me, he's just not for Tessa.
Leah wrote: "I'm on Team Will! I was heartwrenched at the end of clockwork prince. he was just that 1 step too late. sigh. I hope things still work out for Tessa and Will.Jem is great and gentle. he's so sweet..."
Then, what is? (I just wanna know...)
Hmmm... If its Jem, it would be cool. Will..., awesome, I guess?
Yup. Jem needs to find someone else. Men....always fallin for the girls they never thought they would.....
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Yup. Jem needs to find someone else. Men....always fallin for the girls they never thought they would....."Agreed!
Tessa should just go for Will. I am sure once Jem learns the truth about the truth of Will and Tessa's love for each other, Jem is a gentleman enough to back out on his own. He's not the kind of person to stand in someone's way of happiness- especially not Tessa. This is the one thing I love about the relationship between Jem and Will. They are ready to do anything for each other.
Your right that jem and will have a strong bond but when it comes to tessa i think thats the one thing thats going to hurt them. I think jem loves tessa just as much as will maybe even more he just doesnt show it as strongly like his other emotions. He's just a chill dude. Tessa ending up with will would be the easy solution not interesting one!
Jade wrote: "Your right that jem and will have a strong bond but when it comes to tessa i think thats the one thing thats going to hurt them. I think jem loves tessa just as much as will maybe even more he just..."See I disagree with you here. I think Tessa ending up with Will is the most difficult thing right now. Can you imagine how cruel that would be to Jem if she were to dump him? Obviously, that won't happen but I'm just saying. I don't think that will happen since there seem to be just these possiblities:
a) Jem's illness gets cured and he and Tessa live happily ever after (if that's possible)
b) Or Jem finds out about Will and Tessa and he backs out
c) Jem dies so Tessa goes to Will in the end
Then there's the thing about Will dying, but that would come under possibility (a) since it involves Jem and Tessa's happily ever after.
Anyway, I don't care if it would be too cliche if Tessa and Will end up together, but for me bad boys always steal my heart so I obviously want a Will-Tessa endgame.
I usually like the bad boy thing buts its just so common now u would think that every teenage boy was like that. I have nothing againt will i just wish someone would be cool enough to break the chain! (P.S Will's not really a bad boy
Jade wrote: "I usually like the bad boy thing buts its just so common now u would think that every teenage boy was like that. I have nothing againt will i just wish someone would be cool enough to break the cha..."Yes, Will is not really "bad" but I just find him to be such an amazing character that I can't help but root for him and Tessa. I like Jem too though- but not as much as I love Will.
Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wills lack of emotional intelligence makes him not only the worse choice but it also makes him the hardest character to like
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Daylighter wrote: "Jade wrote: "Im team jem! Im just sick of reading expected endings. The book could be all types of awesome but the ending is the same in almost all the books i read. Im sick of t..." ??? Wat r u even tlking about? What does Jace have to do With Will and Tessa? What does his hair color have to do with the comment tall dark and brooding? I feel like your confusion has actually made me confused me
Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wills lack of emotional intellige..."How can you say Will is emotionally deficient in ANY way? Have we even read the same books or not?
He pushed every one away his whole life because he was tricked by a demon into believing that whoever he loves and who love him back will end up dead. Can you imagine a life like that? Having an existence without love? How hard that must have been for him?!! Not to mention he was only 12 at that time. A good portion of his life got wasted- the most important part of a person's life is their teenage years when we need friends and family. He deprived himself of all that because he couldn't bear to lose them. Now that is selfless. Will is the most emotionally capable character in the books actually!
Haha. I see a team Will person here.True. But what about Jem? He's lose his life too. Since he drank Yin Fen, which kills him.
Nevertheless, I will just wait to see the endings. No point in argueing.
Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wills lack of emotio..."So him making a conscious choice to push people away does not compare to Jems parents being murdered and him being addicted to somethin that is killing him. I never used the word deficient I said Emotional Intelligence. I would agree that he is the character most capable of emotion he expresses it through temper tantrums walking in the rain and generally being annoying thus expressing his inability to deal with his emotions in an appropriate manner makes him emotionally unintelligent
Emma wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wi..."Will has a few negative traits- precisely the ones you've mentioned. But I think it's justifiable since his existence till the end of CP has been miserable every waking second. Anyone is bound to be impatient and snappy if they have to put up with what Will had to everyday.
And I don't think it is fair to compare Jem and Will's sufferings. Neither of them wanted it but they have to live with it. But right now, even though Jem is dying he is the happier one since he is the one Tessa is with. At least he has that one shot at happiness (if it survives). And Will still can't have the one thing he wants the most in the world. So I can't see how either's suffering is less than the other's. They both have their fair share of misery and tragedies.
Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attr..."Jem isn't happier than Will because of Tessa but because he was actually able to accept what has happened to him and deal with it in a positive way he would be happier than Will anyway because he is more emotionally sound. Will has basically used Jem as a form of emotional crutch so Jem HAD to adjust. Will is not happy because he hasn't dealt with his issues he would be unhappy with or without Tessa because he is a mess.
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I agree that Will would be unhappy right now, whether or not he has Tessa. Naturally he would have a lot of issues, both emotionally and psychologically. I think he has to deal with all that first and then get into a relationship. I have to mention that I believe the same goes for Tessa. She doesn't even know what or who she is. I think Jem's the only one who has a better idea of who he is and what he wants out of the three of them. That's why he's my favorite.
I am so incredibly and entirely team Will. I think that he and Tessa belong together. He is funny and charming and makes her laugh even when shes mad. They like ALL the same books and poetry. And he obviously loves her. Theres no argument about that. But I think that she loves him too. When he tells her that he loves her, she says she always wanted Will to tell her that. She said he understood the shape of her soul. Dont get me wrong I LOVE Jem too, but I really dont think that Tessa and Jem have anything in common really. He would make her happy, and vice versus, but not as happy as Will and Tessa would be together. After Will tells her that he loves her (that scene broke my heart. Just Sayin') when she sees Jem next time, she is trying to convince herself that she loves him, and when he asks her to marry him, she NEVER says that she LOVES him. And Jem deserves someone who can love him with all her heart. Not just with half. Will is my fav character and I think that he is awesome :P TEAM WILL!!!
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Will was back at the carriage when that happened. And thank you, Charlotte for agreeing on Will's behalf:)I'm not going to absolutely adore Jem, provoked by sympathy due to his inevitable dea..."
He was at the carriage but he was watching them. I think that Jem is always so courteous and charming though that maybe will just thought it was that and nothing more.
Vixen wrote: "i dont think will was jealous of jem as in he thought or suspected jem had feelings for tessa and was jealous. That was pretty evident by how taken aback he was when tessa told him she was engaged ..."Haha I totes agree :)
Belle2908 wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "Flora wrote: "If three is a crowd, then what is four, five, six, etc. Though I really want to contradict what Shadowhunter girl said (or wrote) I don't seemed to find th..."
Me too! Ive loved him since the very first time I saw him!
Richa wrote: "Flora wrote: "Tessa wrote: "Flora wrote: "Besides, Tessa do love Will... "Yes, she does.
(Do you get it? *smiles at own, really stupid joke*)"
Uh... What am I suppose to get, by the way?
Yes. ..."
Yes, but she follows it with, "Dont you?" Why would she ask that if she loved him like a husband. WILL doesnt love him like a husband. I think she loves him like a friend, or a brother and shes confused. He is the next best thing, and he was there for her after Will broke her heart! (even tho he had a good reason for doing it)
yeah i agree, i think the 'don't you?' means that she loves him in a platonic sort of way. but it's possible she said that coz she wanted Will to realize that he would never put his own happiness before Jem's.
Ella wrote: "I am so incredibly and entirely team Will. I think that he and Tessa belong together. He is funny and charming and makes her laugh even when shes mad. They like ALL the same books and poetry. And h..."It broke my heart too!!!!!! i read the book over and over again and try to avoid the ending because no matter how many times i've read it, i still cry
Please don't jump all over me for saying this, but... I mean you can argue, but please don't be mean. :P I don't need that, hahaha.Look all I wanted to say is, while I think that Will has suffered a TON, was I the only one who was a little disappointed with his whole... Reason? I mean don't get me wrong, it was still terrible what happened to him and all but I was so deflated after I read it... I think it was that I was just expecting SO much more. I overestimated. What do you guys think?
@ The Breeze: See, he lose his family, and I guess to him. Well, its a big deal, having need to run away and live with a life his parents avoided. Though, true. I thought he was suffering from much more problems, but he's still a human being. And everyone have a limit.
Shan Shan wrote: "Ella wrote: "I am so incredibly and entirely team Will. I think that he and Tessa belong together. He is funny and charming and makes her laugh even when shes mad. They like ALL the same books and ..."Btw, the ending is on the surprises part. How Cecily came and said she wants to be part of the Institute. And how Henry wants his son to be named Buford. Which I find, hilarious. :D
Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wills lack of emotio..."@ Charlotte: Thank you.
At the first mentioning of a curse in book two, I immediately thought, Oh, no, if he never really had a curse on him, I will seriously be pissed. And look what happened!?!?! I don't know why I like Will so much, and why I don't like Jem as much, but I am totally on Will's side. Yes, Jem's dying but would you rather live in happiness and know your life is of short duration, or live in the constant knowledge that you can never love anyone without jeopardizing their safety and, um, lives? I don't think I'd want the latter. So personally, personally I think Will has suffered more. And to mention, that his sacrifice was. for. nothing? Five years completely wasted. He ripped his family for that! In order to protect them!
He deserves happiness and so does Jem, although I'm more in favor of Will.
As for the Cecily thing, I found that very random. It's just like a complete throw-this-out-there time. Oh, look, Tessa and Jem are engaged! Oh, look, Charlotte and Henry are gonna have a baby! Oh look, Henry wants to call him Buford! Oh, look, here's Cecily wanting to be a Shadowhunter! What an opportune moment to show up!
I wanted it spaced out a little more. The ending was in clusters, a bit, but overall, flippin fantastic, yet, very depressing.
Flora wrote: "@ The Breeze: See, he lose his family, and I guess to him. Well, its a big deal, having need to run away and live with a life his parents avoided. Though, true. I thought he was suffering from mu..."
That's true, very true. I think it was just the waiting for this book that my brain concocted some huge horrible disaster that must've happened... and then I was disappointed. :P
Ella wrote: "I am so incredibly and entirely team Will. I think that he and Tessa belong together. He is funny and charming and makes her laugh even when shes mad. They like ALL the same books and poetry. And h..."Well I think you're wrong similarities do not make the perfect couple. A relationship between Will and Tessa would be so self destructive seeing as neither of them can go through a day without needing some sort of emotional support. Tessa experienced extreme traumas consecutively over a short period of time her problems are understandable I am very unclear how anyone can justify Wills behavior. They would both be looking for THE SAME support and be unable to find it in eachother causing a rift resentment and anger neither of them is strong enough to hold the other up. In fact they BOTH use Jem as an emotional crutch. These are some of their similarities that make them incompatible....
Tessa wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wi..."Tessa wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wi..."
Tessa wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all attractive.... Wi..."What the hell? I'm sorry but did you just parallel the death of someone's parents with an imagined curse and then imply that because Jems parents died early on he had time to "get over it" did that sound crazy to anyone else when they read it?! That is like if Will thought he had fatal cancer and pushed everyone away throughout his life and then realizing he never had cancer! The good news that he can love freely and whole heartedly is lost on Will because he is moronic in nature. Jem didn't imagine his parents dying they actually died he is actually dying! Neither of those he can change Will has the ability to grow and evolve from his experience but because he is an idiot he decides to instead mope and pout and stomp like a 5 y/o girl. Jem who is written more like someone who could possibly survive in the real world hasn't let the trauma break him. And when your parents are brutally murdered that stays with you it doesn't go away with time. You have to fight down that sadness all the time. Jem fights while Will throws his hands up in the air.
Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "At the first mentioning of a curse in book two, I immediately thought, Oh, no, if he never really had a curse on him, I will seriously be pissed. And look what happened!?!?! I don't know why I lik..."O my I see I'm going to get a reputation for being a jerk but............ Will cannot go back and change his past but he can look towards the future and yet he behaves like a poorly trained child. Thinking that someting is wrong with you and finding out that your fine should fill you with hope not mid you dwell on what you missed. Objectively speaking all of Wills problems r generated by his choices if he chose to end his suffering by deciding to be positive it would happen. Will has suffered less because Jem has no choices to end his suffering he can't decide to see his parents and try to know them better and love them or to stop dying. Not to mention the unfair added drama of having to lean onto himself and having Will lean on him for emotional support
Emma wrote: "Shadowhunter Girl wrote: "At the first mentioning of a curse in book two, I immediately thought, Oh, no, if he never really had a curse on him, I will seriously be pissed. And look what happened!?..."Emma wrote: "Tessa wrote: "Charlotte wrote: "Emma wrote: "Lets get real for a moment all of WIlls "suffering" doesnt even begin to compare to Jems. Secondly young adults throwing temper tantrums isnt at all att..."
Even though Will's curse was not real, it was 'real' for him for the past 6 (or so) years. Will was 12 at that time. He was scared. He was afraid that someone would die because of him. Can you imagine, a 12 year old boy who believes he can never love and has to make sure that nobody ever loves him so that they won't die?
It made him leave his family! I know that he had a choice whereas Jem had no choice but to suffer from the loss of his parents but don't you think that it had also hurt Will in an entirely different way? He had to FORCE himself to let his parents go, never to see them again, just for their safety. He knew that it was going to hurt his family and himself when he left them and yet, he choose to protect them by leaving. Basically, he pretty much sacrificed what he loved for his family's safety and suffered years of loss alone. So it wasn't like he had much of a choice. He didn't want anyone to die because of him and so he left. Won't you rather sacrifice yourself than have your entire family die because of you?
Plus, the thing about letting the trauma break Jem/Will; Jem saw his parents die YEARS ago. Yes, I agree that it would still hurt him and he won't ever forget it but I'm sure he doesn't feel as much grief as when it had just happened. But for Will, he had only just learned the truth. So I think it's normal for him to take a little time to feel the shock/sadness (or whatever he was feeling). So Will was trying to recover. He was happy. (Don't you remember him being all cheery and Un-Will-like?)
And then, when he finally realized that he could love and be loved, he wanted to apologize and confess to the girl who he did LOVE. He got all happy and exited and then BOOM! Someone bursts his bubble. (Tessa said it was too late.)
It's like when you have been searching for something, never really being able to get it, and one day, you manage to grab onto into, only to have it stab you and disappear again. (Okay, bad example. I'm not good with examples.)
And won't you agree that it's okay for Will to regret all the things he hadn't done, even though he wanted to, for all those years? 6 (or so) years totally wasted. I think that that's a pretty good reason to feel sad.
Btw, how can one show their positive side when they know that they have to push everyone away every sing day?!
So ya, I think Will has really good reasons for the way he acts. And I don't think that he's moronic, idiotic or otherwise. In my opinion, he's a selfless person who has a strong character. He has lots of different personalities (he can be nice at times and cold at others) and is able to act well. (Like pretending that everything is alright even though he knows it's not)
Both Jem and Will have suffered. But what they suffer from is entirely different from each others. It's hard to compare who has suffered more, though I do think that Will has suffered more than Jem. But in any case, that's just my opinion. So ya, thats about all I have to say. (Yikes, this is a long post...) I just felt like I had to defend Will cuz he's my favorite character :) For those of you who took the time to read this extremely looonnnnngggggg post, thank you. :)
Well... both of you, (Emma and Belle, that is.), make sense. Just that well, you all see them in different point of views. :) That's good, but sometimes you should step into others' shoes.Jem: Well... He does cope his loss well. Being kind to everyone and all. (Even Church.)
Will: He, well..., everyone has defects. Or they would not be humans. Nobody's perfect. And to cope with his heart-break, it takes time. Both to recover from his 'curse' and to recover from the loss of Tessa.
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But he is filled with hope at the end which Tessa stomps on. Besides, who wouldn't dwell on just a little bit when you've missed out on five years of your life? I'd rather know I was dying and living happy than living my life in utter dispair and deprived of love.
Ella wrote: "I am so incredibly and entirely team Will. I think that he and Tessa belong together. He is funny and charming and makes her laugh even when shes mad. They like ALL the same books and poetry. And h..."I feel the same.
I believe Will and Tessa are meant to be. Jem and her- well, I don't like them together much. I enjoyed their scenes initially but then it got boring for me. I don't enjoy Tessa with Jem. He's nice and all but otherwise his character and traits don't excite me.
I was screaming "no" the entire time that involved Tessa and Jem kissing. He created no spark for me! He was just a guy with really white hair kissing the girl who is totally meant to be his parabotia's lady. And she made me mad, too.
I find Jem a bit abstract. The only chances I get to feel concrete about him are when the scenes are from his POV. Then I really connect with him. But with Will, even when it's not on his POV, I still connect with him which is a very large difference! But Jem without his POV, is, again, just an abstract James who does not reveal as much emotion as I'd like him to.
I think Will is a more tragic character than Jem. Because Jem only has his own death to worry about whereas before Will finds out the truth about the curse he is constantly afraid of causing the deaths of people around him. Also, whilst it is horrible that Jem saw his parents die, we have to remember that Will saw his sister Ella die and believed that he was the cause of her death for a really long time.
Will's parents are alive and he forced himself to stay away from them because he was under the impression that if he stayed at home they would die. After he found out about the curse he still couldn't return to his parents because he feared mortmain would get to them. I think sometimes it is easier to have no choice then to have a choice e.g. Jem's parents' death is permenant so he has closure whilst Will is constantly struggling with himself and his fear for his family's safety. Its a really far fetched comparison but their family situations reminds me of the part in Deathly Hallows where Ron leaves Harry after saying that because his family is still alive, he has a greater reason to be afraid for them unlike Harry whose parents are dead. Both situations are painfully tragic in their own way. But Will seems to be in a continous state of turmoil because just when he thinks he can have some happiness in the form of Tessa even that is taken away from him. Will sacrifices his own happiness for his friend and this makes me feel even more sympathetic towards him. I think that Will would never ruin Jem's happiness and that sort of reinforces my opinion of his good nature.
Ana wrote: "I think Will is a more tragic character than Jem. Because Jem only has his own death to worry about whereas before Will finds out the truth about the curse he is constantly afraid of causing the de..."You have a really good point and I totally agree with you. I love Will!
I don't think Jem's suffering is any less than Will's. I mean losing loved ones is equally bad no matter how they died. And Jem is this uber-tragic person who is dying. Ok fine. I get that. Cassandra wants us to empathize with him and I do. I really do. But what more is there to his character?Just because a person is dying doesn't mean there has to be no character development in the story. I find Jem having so much less action. Whereas, Will does things. He makes us hate him, get mad at him and also break our hearts with his sadness. Now that is a happening character. And character development should be in the terms that that particular character evolves. Jem is already evolved and doesn't have any real flaw- he is understanding, empathetic, well-mannered, kind and loving. Now a perfect person is safe and predictable. So no Jem for me.
Team Will forever! <3
(Directed @ no one in particular)I am not going to like Jem just because he is dying. His situation is not going to make me just fall all over him because his life is of short duration. I sympathize for him, I really do. I don't think he deserves to die and the fact that he most likely will really sucks but I wonder how many people would still like him if he wasn't dying....just a thought...
The Infernal Devices
Books mentioned in this topic
Clockwork Prince (other topics)City of Ashes (other topics)
Clockwork Prince (other topics)
Lol you sound just like one of my friends! She wants Jem & Tessa together, cause she says if it's Will, it's gonna be TMI all over.