Introduction to the WW2 Site - Please Say Hi Showing 951-1,000 of 4,899

[[deleted user]]

Il grillo parlante!

[Paul]

Ismael wrote: "Il grillo parlante!"

Si, davvero!

[Dj]

Robert wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "For those interested in what the Ashes is all about here is some information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashes"

Just what I thought, after finding the article you cite..."

Oh come on Cricket is the Ancestor of Baseball, only longer and even more boring.

[Robert]

Dj wrote: "Robert wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "For those interested in what the Ashes is all about here is some information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashes"

Just what I thought, after finding the a..."

More boring than baseball? No way! (But my grandson must never see this.)

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Cricket is a fine sport to enjoy in the summer on a field surrounded by trees with beer/cider and food, with ripples of applause as a player makes a fine, crafted shot through silly-point to the boundary; or a fielder deftly collects the ball at deep-third man after a the nightwatchman has sliced the new ball for a single; or a left-arm unorthodox spin bowler has delivered a fine googly to produce a wicket maiden only to be disappointed on appeal because the umpire signals for a no-ball.

It's all very simple really...

NB: Burning the bails (not balls) are the source of the ashes and means that us Brits and the Aussies have since 1882 been are able to gloat, sledge and continue winding each other up.

[Tionne]

Geevee wrote: "Cricket is a fine sport to enjoy in the summer on a field surrounded by trees with beer/cider and food, with ripples of applause as a player makes a fine, crafted shot through silly-point to the bo..."

Thanks for the clarification, Geevee! And for the record, either sport sounds great to have a cold one and enjoy. Maybe the people who think its boring aren't doing it right? :-)

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Well said Tionne - a Pimms awaits you at the bar :)

[Tionne]

Geevee wrote: "Well said Tionne - a Pimms awaits you at the bar :)"

Sounds great! :-)

[Dj]

Robert wrote: "Dj wrote: "Robert wrote: "'Aussie Rick' wrote: "For those interested in what the Ashes is all about here is some information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ashes"

Just what I thought, after fi..."

I stand by my comment. And I have Chief Inspector Tom Barnaby to back me up...Well at least on the boring aspect of Cricket. LOL.

[Dj]

Tionne wrote: "Geevee wrote: "Cricket is a fine sport to enjoy in the summer on a field surrounded by trees with beer/cider and food, with ripples of applause as a player makes a fine, crafted shot through silly-..."

Last I checked they still don't serve Whiskey at US Ballparks. So no way I could enjoy a cold one at the game and do it 'right' LOL. I have found that Baseball is okay to play, but really more of a community get together when it comes to watching. And at the prices they charge now, I would rather community elsewhere.

[happy]

The thing I like about watching baseball on TV is that you can take a nap in the middle innings and if anything happens they will show the replay seventy-eleven times, so you don't miss anything :)

The ballpark is another story

[Tionne]

To each his or her own, I guess! I still think its lots of fun. On tv or in a ballpark. As for the whiskey, that is why the Spirits store sells the tiny ones, nothing like cargo pants with lots of pockets!! :-)

[Tytti]

Well while we are talking about sports, I might as well mention Finnish "baseball", pesäpallo. Lauri Pihkala had seen baseball in USA but thought it was too slow, so he created a more active game. It's also more tactical. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pes%C3%A...

To keep this on topic: Pesäpallo was very much designed for learning military skills like throwing, diving, running, hand-eye coordination and so on. Especially the Civil Guards played and promoted the game in the 1920s.

This is from an All Star game. The third inning starts just before 4 minutes' mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeGGsN...

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Thanks for that information and the links Tytti, much appreciated.

[Robert]

Tytti wrote: "Well while we are talking about sports, I might as well mention Finnish "baseball", pesäpallo. Lauri Pihkala had seen baseball in USA but thought it was too slow, so he created a more active game. ..."

This thread is more educational than I ever imagined!

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

Quite a game Tytti, lots of action.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Tytti wrote: "Well while we are talking about sports, I might as well mention Finnish "baseball", pesäpallo. Lauri Pihkala had seen baseball in USA but thought it was too slow, so he created a more active game. ..."

Nicely steered back to a military link Tytti - slightly related and for Rick, Daz and others interested I found this interesting link on Wikipedia relating to cricketers killed in military service: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...

[Tytti]

I think is worth mentioning, as well, that over 30 Finnish Olympic athletes died in the WWII and ten of them were Olympic medalists, some others otherwise succesful. Also at least seven veterans who had been wounded in the war won Olympic medals after WWII and some of course who hadn't, like Tapio Rautavaara. He had thrown two metres over the world record during the war.

This Finnish blog post has some names and stories. jaskanpauhantaa.blogspot.fi/2012/07/e...

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Welcome to the group Travelin, and I'm sure members will be happy to join in the thread. As for books about say Dunkirk if you would like recommendations or to share what you have read so far then please feel free.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Hi Travelin, you can post that question about WWII being "a good war" in the general debate thread if you like:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

I am sure you will get a very interesting response.

[Tytti]

Travelin wrote: "Hello world,
---
At the moment I'm most interested in whether WWII was "the good war" at all and plan to post thread about this if I can. "

I can give you one answer. I don't think I've heard WWII referred to as "good" by anyone else than Americans (or in English anyway, so maybe British etc.). I've always thought it sounds stupid and simplistic. Also I wouldn't have dared to say that to the veterans I knew while growing up.

[Robert]

Tytti wrote: "Travelin wrote: "Hello world,
---
At the moment I'm most interested in whether WWII was "the good war" at all and plan to post thread about this if I can. "

I can give you one answer. I don't thin..."

"Oscar Koch once told me,'War is ugly. The only good war is the one you don't fight.' Oscar Koch knew war."

But he also knew that some wars are necessary, and WW II was a necessary war. "There will be wars that have to be fought when inhumane powers, left unchallenged, slaughter innocents. And when wars must be fought, it is important that the good guys win. Can we even imagine the world that would have existed had Hitler prevailed?" --Patton's Oracle, pp. 192, 196
Robert Hays

[Tytti]

Robert wrote: "But he also knew that some wars are necessary, and WW II was a necessary war. "There will be wars that have to be fought when inhumane powers, left unchallenged, slaughter innocents. And when wars must be fought, it is important that the good guys win."

Except that I am Finnish and the "inhumane powers who slaughtered innocents" that we fought against, were your allies. And they won, and then continued to do that, unchallenged.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

A very tricky area Tytti. I suppose Finland took the chance and joined forces with Germany to regain its lost territory from 1939 but no one can deny that Germany and its leaders where "inhumane powers who slaughtered innocents" and Finland joined forces with them.

I'm not saying that Russia was the force of good, we all know it wasn't but they joined the Allied forces after being attacked by Germany and its allies.

[Robert]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "A very tricky area Tytti. I suppose Finland took the chance and joined forces with Germany to regain its lost territory from 1939 but no one can deny that Germany and its leaders where "inhumane po..."

I'm content to leave it at "there are no good wars."

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

In regards to Travelin's question about was WWII "the good war" some members might like to check out this older thread:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/3...

[Dj]

Tytti wrote: "Robert wrote: "But he also knew that some wars are necessary, and WW II was a necessary war. "There will be wars that have to be fought when inhumane powers, left unchallenged, slaughter innocents...."

I would say that statement is partially correct. Your enemy was Russia, who had their own agenda throughout the war. Didn't matter what side they said they were on at the time.
Finland came off slightly, very slightly, better than some of the other nations they set their sights on. Possibly due to the fact that they fought so much better than many of the other nations that were in the position to be taken over by them.

[Dj]

I think that Stalin was of the mind set to push the boundaries of the Soviet Union. He might not have been as aggressive as he was in the actual event if Hitler hadn't been as aggressive. (Which almost precludes Hitler being in power in Germany), but aggression and lack of action on the part of the League and France and England in particular in the face of it had already been shown long before Poland. Italy in Albania and Ethiopia for example.
That being the case it was quite likely that Stalin would have acted the aggressor to a greater or lesser extent no matter what.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

You raise an interesting question Travelin, could "skillful negotiation" have prevented WW2? I'm not too sure it would have stopped Hitler's plans of expansion unless the other side were negotiating from a position of power. I think Dj has covered the point well, what do others think?

[Frank]

I have to agree with DJ. Didn't Stalin move his troops into position to claim their part of Poland as agreed with the non-aggression pact.
If Germany did not attack the Soviet Union, Stalin would have continued his land grabs.
Ultimately he just postponed that policy until the end of the war.

[Tytti]

Frank wrote: "I have to agree with DJ. Didn't Stalin move his troops into position to claim their part of Poland as agreed with the non-aggression pact.
If Germany did not attack the Soviet Union, Stalin would..."

There is a book called "Red Army's marching guide to Finland", that had all kinds of military information about Finland, made in 1939 (or 1938). Finnish troops found it after the Suomussalmi battles. So they had been planning the invasion for some time and probably would have tried again later, like they did to other countries. And of course Stalin had been killing minorities for years before the WWII.

Dj wrote: "Finland came off slightly, very slightly, better than some of the other nations they set their sights on. "

Slightly? I think we did quite well, considering the circumstances. Surprisingly well, even. Most Finns consider them "just wars" and would do it again, if needed. But hearing people call it "good"...

[carl]

Tytti wrote: "But hearing people call it "good".. "

You have to consider the context of the 'good' in the phrase 'The Good War' for the USA. It's meant in contrast to the conflicts after WW2, particularly Vietnam, where support, goals and results are muddled at best.

[Tytti]

carl wrote: "Tytti wrote: "But hearing people call it "good".. "

You have to consider the context of the 'good' in the phrase 'The Good War' for the USA. It's meant in contrast to the conflicts after WW2, p..."

Yes, I sort of know that but it also conveniently forgets all that difficult stuff about the WWII. Like in one American documentary where USSR is mentioned only after the operation Barbarossa. Nothing about the Winter War or Poland and the Baltic countries or their fates. Makes it sound like Russians were just innocent victims.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

A good and measured discussion on an area that can be emotive folks. I think the term good can have a wide meaning when discussing a war that have at their heart brutal regimes who were determined to see their aims fulfilled. I rather liked Tytti's term just as it levels better to my mind.

However, asking my great-uncles or my grandfathers if they had fought a good war against Germany and Japan they would have answered at a top level yes, but this would be tempered by the knowledge that killing (and they did) is never pleasant and as we know it is not just soldiers/sailors or airmen that were killed in battles and a fully industrialised war (my own great-grandmother was killed in an air raid in 1941).

It is interesting that had you asked both combatants and civilians in WWI from axis or allied countries if they were fighting a good war many would have also answered yes.

In fact many wars/conflicts can seen right or just at the start and then change either during or after. I hope you'll allow me to present a view, which I understand many will not necessarily subscribe to. I firmly believe the Falklands War was just, as I do the Korean War. My own military career saw the troubles in Northern Ireland and although highly complex and desperately tragic - and many will disagree vehemently with me I am sure - I felt it was right that British troops were deployed there from 1969-2007. The first Gulf war was when the guys deployed considered a worthy intervention, and at the time with a concern on WMD so was Iraq in 2003 (sadly since we now know there were no WMD and so the pretext was flawed and for many who took part it is now not seen as a just intervention especially as the outcome remains complex and bloody).

War is never good but for WWII one wonders what would have happened if the allies had remained detached. Did it end in 1945 - well certainly not for those behind the Iron Curtain; and in relation to the wars of the 1950s and beyond their foundations to some extent large or small point back to WWI or WWII and I wonder what the men who fought the war to end all wars would make of that as we approach the anniversary of 1914.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

A well reasoned answer Geevee, thanks for taking the time to respond.

[Tytti]

Travelin wrote: "I recently saw a panel discussion on French television about political conflicts in modern Egypt. One woman's mix of conspiracy theories and religious fervour was tolerated with barely disguised co..."

And usually also the meddling of outsiders. See Palestine. Also I remember that the peace negotiator for Northern Ireland Harri Holkeri once mentioned that their troubles were rooted in the Viking times. I don't remember the exact quote.

[Lilo]

Hi, everybody,
I am not a historian, but I was born into Hitler's Germany (in 1939) and have grown up in a non-Nazi family, surrounded by ordinary Nazis as well as SS-criminals. Being an early developer, I remember unusually far back, which enabled me to write an early-childhood memoir, telling about the Third Reich and WWII from the frog's perspective. This memoir is in the process of being published.
I have recently read "My Name Was Five", by Heinz Kohler, and found this book the very best I have so far read about this era. This book is an absolute must-read for anyone interested in WWII and the years before and after. Please read my review of this book. It will tell you more.

[Dj]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "A well reasoned answer Geevee, thanks for taking the time to respond."

In Western Culture, it is often seen as a requierment to show that you are fighting on the side of the Angels as it were. So 'Good' or 'Just' Wars are something that is striven for at least in the sense of convincing themselves that is the case. Thus the long build up on the WMD in prior to attacking Iraq the second time around.

With that said, the US felt that in the case of WWII it was a 'Good' War in relation to the US if not the rest of the Allies since the perspective was that we were responding to aggression and helping to free Nations that had been taken over by the aggressors. This view was enhanced due to the fact that our entry into the war didn't come about until after the Japanese had struck a blow on US territory. (Hawaii was a possession of the US, not a State at the time, but it was close enough for government work.)

The truth of the situation was a tad murkier, but Pearl Harbor did give a clear ability to point the finger at Japan as having started it. Ignoring the fact that the US was involved in a conflict just short of open war with Germany in the Atlantic.

Also it ignores the annoying details of Japanese Interment as well as the original objective not being achieved. The Western Allies (Britain and France) went to war to protect the independence of Poland. At least that was the stated reason. Poland at the end of WWII couldn't be considered either of those things.

In General that is something that is mostly ignored in works of History coming out of the US. But then it can be honestly said that the US has a somewhat myopic view of history in the overall sense.

['Aussie Rick', Moderator]

Hi Lilo and welcome to the group, I am sure you would have a lot of interesting stories about growing up in Germany during the war. Thanks for the details about the book; My Name Was Five.

by Heinz Kohler

[Lilo]

'Aussie Rick' wrote: "Hi Lilo and welcome to the group, I am sure you would have a lot of interesting stories about growing up in Germany during the war. Thanks for the details about the book; My Name Was Five.

[bookco..."

Hi, Rick,
Thank you for welcoming me. Yes, I do have stories to tell, and I invite everybody to ask me questions. They can be close and personal.

[happy]

Welcome Lilo

It looks like were neighbors :)

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Lilo wrote: "Hi, everybody,
I am not a historian, but I was born into Hitler's Germany (in 1939) and have grown up in a non-Nazi family, surrounded by ordinary Nazis as well as SS-criminals. Being an early deve..."

Hi Lilo welcome to the group. I'll check out your review and thanks for your post.

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Great review Lilo - I have it on my TBR already, I just now need to find a copy.

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

Hi Lilo, welcome to the group. Excellent review, added to my TBR.

[Robert]

Lilo wrote: "Hi, everybody,
I am not a historian, but I was born into Hitler's Germany (in 1939) and have grown up in a non-Nazi family, surrounded by ordinary Nazis as well as SS-criminals. Being an early deve..."

Welcome to the group, Lilo. And thank you for telling your story.

[Anne]

Hi,

My name is Anne and I am a high school and college instructor. I have a degree in history but have never used it; I actually teach Forensic Science and biology and A and P. I read a great deal though, and this time period is what I read the most of ( and WWI). German history is also a favorite in my reading. I look forward to reading Lilo's review!

[Mike, Assisting Moderator US Forces]

Welcome Anne! Glad you found us and hope you find something interesting here. It's a great group.

[happy]

Welcome Anne

If you should be able to expand your TBR list here :)

[Gerald]

Anne wrote: "Hi,

My name is Anne and I am a high school and college instructor. I have a degree in history but have never used it; I actually teach Forensic Science and biology and A and P. I read a great deal..."

Hi Anne, welcome. What is A and P?

[Geevee, Assisting Moderator British & Commonwealth Forces]

Anne wrote: "Hi,

My name is Anne and I am a high school and college instructor. I have a degree in history but have never used it; I actually teach Forensic Science and biology and A and P. I read a great deal..."

Welcome to the group Anne, please feel free to join in as much as you wish.