"Assassin's Apprentice..." Conclusions? **plenty o' spoilers!**

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "There’s something I haven’t gotten to really talk to anyone else about, and it was the delicate manner in which the relationship between Fitz and Molly unfolded. There was such an ache to their lat..."

Yes, wholly agreed - that was a far more genuine and 'non-fairytale-y' resolution than "happily ever after" would've been. "Grace note" is great way of putting it.

(Wouldn't necessarily limit this to male behavior alone though).

And while bittersweet moment, it was also narratively nice way of showing, that Molly would be okay without Fitz. And Fitz free to wander off unattached.

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "Thank you, as always, Jemina for your honest and very personal sharing of your thoughts that this book engendered. I’ll be very curious to see how the further depiction of the Wit in [book:Royal As..."

*hah* The phrasing of that has me curious what's to come indeed :) I'm counting on further readings to affect opinions tho! Could get pretty dire if things got stagnant at this.

(Hoh, hey, that's the "Tom Cruise in Last Samurai" cover one *eugh*)

Thank you too, for your unwavering enthusiasm.

And thanks to all the folks here for being welcoming to all.

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "It was clear from the beginning that this was likely to be a masterfully devised whole, with colorfully described world and wonderful, varied cast of characters. And it was.

But of the kind, which..."

Get ready for this world to get ever more colorful, Jemina!

I can see how growing up with a kennel would give you a somewhat detached relationship with animals.
My family has always had dogs, but not a kennel (I grew up with an Irish Wolfhound, for example), so those parts of the book hit very, very close to home. Nosy and especially Smithy broke my heart.
The meeting in Jhaampe had me tearing up to such an extent that I had to put the book down for a bit.

I do think that Burrich is a very central character (view spoiler)[and those of you who've read some of the later books will know that this is reflected in more ways than one on a narrative/plot level, but also through the very apt nickname "heart of the pack". (hide spoiler)]. I found his relationship with Fitz - and the way in which it changes over time - deeply moving.

I also agree that the animosity against the witted is a clever way for the story to explore how bigotry works and the different ways in which it impacts peoples' lives. Hobb is really good at taking "real life" issues and using the fantasy setting to explore them in interesting ways, both here and throughout the whole cycle. And she always does so in a way that feels "organic" and true to the world she has created. A lesser storyteller would not be able to pull this off.

As for Fitz and Molly...I think they're a rare couple in fantasy. Partly because they're both such fully fleshed out, unique characters and partly because Hobb handles them and their story so well.
So, while I can't really speak to "male adolescent paralysis", @Anthony, I agree with everything else.

[Anthony]

There’s also an aspect of these books that i wanted to talk about, and that’s the magic of the naming of the Royal Family. I listened to the beginning of a podcast that was discussing this book, and they were so appalled that the Royal characters’ names were these various nouns. They mocked the hell out of it. But I thought it was a very interesting depiction of an idea of using language as magic, as a way of binding a soul to a quality or way of being, at least as an intention. Do you agree that it’s a powerful magical spell that essentially predetermines a person’s fate, or do you think that it’s more like the power of suggestion, almost like a prophecy that the person then feels they have to live into?

[Gabi]

I had the impression that is was the latter. Along the line of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Kaa]

I agree that it's more the second, although I think we're maybe not supposed to know for sure. The narrator indicates that people believe the former to be true, but that he sees this belief as foolish. I like the concept, though, especially the way it's used to add irony when there is a mismatch between the name and the actions of a character.

Oddly enough, the book I picked up after finishing Assassin's Apprentice has a main character named Silence, which was apparently also picked to described a hoped-for trait.

[Gabi]

@Kaa, regarding Lady Patience: I was thinking about, what it was that made her so compelling for me. I'd say on one hand it's the fact that she isn't the typical medieval fantasy character - at least not as far as I read books in that genre - all the others I encountered in one way or other in other novels. The mix of lady of the court and comic relief is new to me.

The other reason is certainly, that I can somehow relate to her. Most of the time the female characters in this genre are no identification charas for me and I seldomly see myself in male characters. Whereas she is somebody I instantly wanted to have for a bestie (enough protection against hugging accidents provided)

[Kaa]

Gabi, I agree with both of your reasons. I know that I get attached to any and all well-written female characters because they are pretty rare in this genre, but Lady Patience stands out as unique and especially interesting. I really like the comedic role she has, which I can't say I've seen before for a female character either. I was really glad that she didn't end up in some sort of evil stepmother role, which is what I was afraid of before we met her.

[Jemppu]

Anthony wrote: "There’s also an aspect of these books that i wanted to talk about, and that’s the magic of the naming of the Royal Family. I listened to the beginning of a podcast that was discussing this book, an..."

Oh, crud. Here we go again... unedited flow of thoughts, ahoy:

I love this idea! And think of it as not even that far removed from reality either! In fact I love it precisely because of how close to home it hits! I often ponder about how growing up with a certain names affects individuals. How people learn to associate with one and other and measure themselves even.

Rest under cut for long ot.

(view spoiler)[It might not be something someone with fairly popular name perceives easily (nor should they - it could soon become overwhelming) - they might have grown accustomed to 'their name' popping up here and there in association to someone else, but might that also affect how they feel themselves as being a part of something? A community of sorts? Might people with common names view themselves 'common'? Could it be a hindrance to thinking themselves not 'worthy' of greater things? If this is something an artist name also helps to achieve? Separate an individual from the rest.

People with rare names. How do thy associate with others of their name, if there is any.

I myself have a rare first name, and can count with one hand the occasions I've encountered the name myself. Met couple, heard 'rumors' or offhand remarks of couple (these re sure to always catch one's attention).

But mainly, I've learned to associate the name to myself only. It's grown to be a strong part of one's own identity. And meeting/hearing of someone of the same name, might seem almost like a 'violation' against one's identity (how dare they use your name XD ...no but, seriously, how dare they!).

It might be 'ego boosting', but all the while it could also work to 'alienate': in that one doesn't form any/many bonds with people of the same name - familiar to oneself, famed people or fictional characters.

A name can leave one alone, or include one as a part of greater community. And if it's a name of notoriety it might not register favorably with people in association to you either, and one might end up 'defending' their name at every encounter. Possibly ashamed of it even (ie. imagine you were a kid named Adolf after/during WWII).

Personal examples: my first name being a rarity, I don't have people of fame to associate with it. Most of my namesakes in fact come with my second name, but that name in popular culture seems usually reserved for villainous characters. (We do have a the bond girl actress too though - if that's in any way 'better').

But couple years back I encountered for the first time something which must be the very norm to countless Brads, Angelinas, Georges, Meryls, Jeremys, Jodies, Anthonys (hey!), Patricks... (and thus if even register to these people so strongly?): there was a movie out in which the lead actress bore "my name"! Not my second, "pop culture name", but my very own first name. My instant reaction - not being anyway used to this - was 'fear', that they'd gain fame with that name. Maybe worse even: notoriety. The name would become associated with them which ever way, and thus one certainly would get to hear of it too, it being a rarity (imagine being named say, Elton - as opposite to "Maria").

People with more regional names? How do they compare? All Alis come from India right? All Larses and Svens are Swedish? The name Mohammad - while equivalent to "John" in parts of the world - must be a bother to have in others - a hazard even.

I'm certain most of you people here too have someone(s) you associate your name with (few of you I'm even curious about, you being the first ones I've encountered to bore your particular names). These might be people you'd wish not to associate with, or someone you look up to, or are indifferent about, but still register on some level. Are you yourself 'better' than these namesakes? Would you wish to be?

Are there any, who've changed their names to something else than what they were 'given', for what ever reason? After all, our names often also bear a certain connotations within themselves. Strongest examples might come from dealing with gender identities, and how names there associate. Other reasons might be regional issues, or religious, family ties... what ever.

(I myself have always found my name mildly annoyingly gender specific - and it has some religious etymology too - which to me always felt 'unnecessary'. Things one's parents most certainly never even considered).

There's a Finnish proverb - I'm not sure if it exists elsewhere -surely it must: "Ei nimi miestä pahenna, ellei mies nimeä." For which the direct translation would be "A name doesn't make a man worse, if the man doesn't make the name worse."

Something about "tainting a name" usually gets brought up only in family matters, but with 'communities' of namesakes it feels, it's each of these indviduals' "duty" to keep that particular name untainted.

Buuut... this is all deep in the ot again perhaps. So, lets close with: (hide spoiler)]

I certainly get why some would think of characters named after nouns would sound ridiculous - they might seem like silly kids' book characters, or elven names or 'super hero' monikers or what ever. But for aforementioned reasons I find them/this a very compelling aspect of the book. True mirror of reality in one's name tying in with one's image, identity and supposed 'destiny' (also a clever way to avoid readers from associating the names of the book's royalty with any living monarchs or other individuals - themselves even perhaps? Leaving the protagonists the only 'true' names to associate with maybe?).

I'd say, both in the book and irl, it's living up to the name.

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "Anthony wrote: "There’s also an aspect of these books that i wanted to talk about, and that’s the magic of the naming of the Royal Family. I listened to the beginning of a podcast that was discussi..."

I think it's a mixture of both, but mostly a self-fulfilling prophecy. (view spoiler)[There will be more about names in the later books, so keep your eyes open for that! (hide spoiler)]
(Edit: retroactively decided to put a spoiler tag around this since it mentions the other books. No details, really, but just to be safe.)

I get what you mean about having a unique name, Jemina. My first name is very rare in the region of Germany I live in, but not so much in the region my Mum's originally from. So, growing up I personally knew no one who shared my name. To this day, I find it unbelievably disorienting when someone else in my vicinity is adressed by "my name".
And then my last name is fairly unique and very hard to pronounce for most Germans and I'm very firecely attached to it by now. I'm definitely not going to give it up, ever. a) because it's my name (and my mother's. My dad's the one with the hyphenated last name in our family), and b) because I've published under this name, so....

I love how different, but also how similar proverbs can be in different languages! We don't have anything quite like the one you shared with us in German (unless I am forgetting something?), except maybe for "nomen est omen" and that's originally Latin, of course. (Aside: your post makes me wish my Finnish skills had progressed beyond basic knowledge. One of these days I'll find a teacher and pick it back up.)

@Gabi and @Kaa: I agree! Lady Patience is fairly unique for the genre (as are most if not all of the female characters in this series), which is definitely why I love her. She's comedic relief, but she's also a strong female character without having to be a "strong female character", if that makes sense. There's often such a limited way of depicting "strength" in female characters in this genre (and pop culture in general) and it's often limited to "strong" women being like men and exhibiting characteristics/doing things usually seen as masculine. Lady Patience is not that, but she's still very strong in other ways, I'd say. The same is true for Molly.

[Jemppu]

Mareike wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "Anthony wrote: "There’s also an aspect of these books that i wanted to talk about, and that’s the magic of the naming of the Royal Family. I listened to the beginning of a podcast th..."

Your's was actually the first "unique" name I thought of here ^^ Indeed, "disorienting" is a good word to describe the feeling of hearing it 'in the wild'.

Oh, and the fact that you'd have any basic knowledge of Finnish is impressive! I honestly can't fathom, how anyone not born speaking it can learn the language - I have nothing but utter respect for immigrants and other's who are put to learn it later in life and manage. The conjunctions seem like a nightmare to grasp, if learning 'by the book'.

@Gabi and @Kaa
It's not fantasy, but there's a female character in Victorian drama manga "Emma" that Lady Patience reminded me of. "Aurelia Jones" she seems to be called in the English adaptation. An eccentric lady, who lives alone away from her husband and kids, because she doesn't quite feel at home in the strictness of the aristocratic life.

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "Mareike wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "Anthony wrote: "There’s also an aspect of these books that i wanted to talk about, and that’s the magic of the naming of the Royal Family. I listened to the beginning..."

Really!? Funny! Both of them or just my last name?
Let me tell you, it took my Finnish friends a while to figure out how to say my first name. ;-) But the same is true for the French and most Americans. Traveling/living abroad with my combination of names can be very entertaining. (Several years ago, I reached the stage in my life where I stopped being annoyed at people mispronouncing my name - especially my last name. It's just what it is. But thinking about it some more, there's probably a heap of white privilege involved in my being able to shake this off so easily.)

My Finnish has eroded a lot over the past few years. I actually found the grammar to be very straightforward. But getting to a working vocabulary proved very hard, especially because yoz can't really deduce the meanings of most words by drawing on other languages. I.e. with Spanish and French words, I could always draw on Latin and English to guess at meanings. With Finnish, that only works for very few words.

Thinking more about names in the book, I love how it very subtly explores the way the weight of names can change. For example: "FitzChivalry" denotes Fitz's illegitimate origin, and the prefix is certainly used as an insult by some, but because Fitz is Fitz his name just takes on a wholly different connotation over time. For him, for the people around him, and for the reader. And I love that. The proverb you mentioned, Jemina, is actually very fitting for Fitz.

(This also puts me in mind of one of my favorite quotes from Doctor Who: "But then there's other people, and you meet them and you think 'not bad, they're okay', and then you get to know them, and their face sort of becomes them, like their personality's written all over it, and they just they turn into something so beautiful...”

There's a similar process to how we tend to associate certain names with certain people and their impact on our lives, I think.)

[Jemppu]

Mareike wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "Mareike wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "Anthony wrote: "There’s also an aspect of these books that i wanted to talk about, and that’s the magic of the naming of the Royal Family. I listened t..."

"Mareike" stood out ^^

[Wastrel]

I've never understood why people make fun of the names - given that many of them are real-world English-language names. I don't think 'Shrewd' is, but 'Verity' used to be a common name (mostly for women - Verity Lambert, for instance, was one of the creators of Dr Who) - and there have been Chivalrys and Regals and certainly Patiences and so on.

[In English, the practice was introduced by the Puritans - many of them were rather negative (Humiliation, No-Merit, If-Jesus-Had-Not-Died-For-Thee-Thou-Had'st-Been-Damned!, etc) but the positive ones lasted longer. Several continue to be relatively common names for women - Faith, Hope and Charity, for instance - but the practice went out of fashion for men quite quickly with the following political changes. But I have to feel that when people laugh at how silly and unrealistic a custom is, when it's a custom that was commonplace in their own country only a few hundred years ago, that reflects more on their lack of understanding of human cultural diversity than on the novel itself...]

[Travis]

I loved almost everything about this book. I'm such a fan of fantasy novels that linger in their worlds, trusting that the worlds will interest the readers even in the absence of series upon series of action sequences.

I loved the first-person narrator, and the distance we could sense between Fitz the narrator and Fitz the character. In that sense, it reminded me more of Rothfuss than Martin.

The relationship between Fitz and Burrich: devastating. And the growing identification Fitz felt with Chade, both bastards and both assassins: yet another relationship that approaches but then runs aslant of a parent-child relationship.

There were a few writing quirks that bugged me, like the frequency with which Hobb uses "but" twice in a single sentence and the repetitiveness of certain patterns (like Fitz not hearing the Fool enter his room). And I wished there were just a few more reminders of Fitz's age at the various episodes. But those are such small quibbles.

[Jemppu]

Travis wrote: "...And I wished there were just a few more reminders of Fitz's age at the various episodes...."
I too noticed, that it could've been brought up couple more times easily. The few times the narration does reminds of his age, I found myself surprised - already having forgotten he's just a kid through this all, or that he's still a kid, after all that training, and the story isn't actually skipping that many years between events.

[Mareike]

Jemppu wrote: "Travis wrote: "...And I wished there were just a few more reminders of Fitz's age at the various episodes...."
I too noticed, that it could've been brought up couple more times easily. The few time..."

But in the end, doesn't that emphasize what growing up in this way did to Fitz? It's almost like he himself forgot how young he was, both at the time and when retelling the story.

(And doesn't every teenager/young adult think they're super grown up only to look back a few years later and go 'Oh, I was so young!')

[Jemppu]

Mareike wrote: "Jemppu wrote: "Travis wrote: "...And I wished there were just a few more reminders of Fitz's age at the various episodes...."
I too noticed, that it could've been brought up couple more times easil..."

Good point. If that was the intention, the book certainly succeeded! (and even if not intentional, it's still a nice view to it).

[Jacqueline]

Galen's hatred of Fitz is interesting considering (view spoiler)[ he himself is the bastard son of the Queen and half brother to Regal. (hide spoiler)]

I really enjoyed this book and after a few others that need reading for other challenges I'm looking forwards to the next one.

[Mareike]

Yes. There's a lot going on with Galen.
Putting the rest under a tag. It's not a direct spoiler, but refers back to Jacqueline's hidden spoiler. (view spoiler)[There's once again a foil relationship going on here and an interesting exploration of how differently two people who have a similar background can turn out, depending on who influences them. (hide spoiler)]

[Jacqueline]

Yes...two very different upbringings.

[Wastrel]

Just on the question raised before about a TV adaptation: apparently we can now add Magician (/Riftwar) to the list of 'every fantasy series ever' that's now being adapted. We'll soon be at the point where Hobb's work is the only thing that ISN'T being adapted.

[and I have to fear that this isn't going to end well. A huge glut of hugely-expensive epic fantasy shows arriving on TV at the same time, just as viewers say they're getting tired of GOT? Lord of the Rings prequel vs GOT prequel(s) vs Wheel of Time vs Riftwar vs... vs... ? And I have to feel that many of the works you hear mentioned for adaptations just aren't going to work - often the source material isn't actually that great, and in no case does it really meet the demand met by GOT, with its political dimension, wide cast of protagonists, and relatively 'gritty' feel. It's hard to to suspect that msot of these are going to end up very expensive failures, that will sour both audiences and executives on the entire genre...]

[Kaa]

Mareike wrote: "Yes. There's a lot going on with Galen.
Putting the rest under a tag. It's not a direct spoiler, but refers back to Jacqueline's hidden spoiler. [spoilers removed]"

One of the aspects of Robin Hobb's writing in this book that I really appreciate is the way she plays around with contrasts and contradictions - like this one, or differences between a person's name and their actions, for instance. I noticed it a lot while reading, but I feel as though I'm seeing even more examples now as I reflect on the book.

[Mareike]

Kaa wrote: "Mareike wrote: "Yes. There's a lot going on with Galen.
Putting the rest under a tag. It's not a direct spoiler, but refers back to Jacqueline's hidden spoiler. [spoilers removed]"

One of the asp..."


Yes, absolutely! She does that really well. There's a lot of stuff going on in terms of these contrasts, but also with other things she works into the books that I only really started to think about once I'd made it through the book/trilogy/the whole series.

[Wen]

I’m trying to catch up with the group...just finished chapter four. (view spoiler)[ahhhh, I was sad that Nosy is gone in chapter two...a bit mad. And Fitz is such an adorable kid! When he got his own room and he said to Burrich that “I’d rather I was a stray pup.” awww(weeping)... Also there’s one part that he had too much food and described as “my stomach murmured unhappily for hours afterward.”(smile) (hide spoiler)]

[Wen]

Finished chapter eight. I really love Fitz:) He is such a lovely/cute kid. I love the way he describes things, so sweet.

[Bobby]

Wen wrote: "Finished chapter eight. I really love Fitz:) He is such a lovely/cute kid. I love the way he describes things, so sweet."

One of the best parts of this series is the characters. Robin Hobb is really good at making fleshed out characters we develop a variety of deep emotions for, both positive and negative.

[Anthony]

Bobby wrote: "Wen wrote: "Finished chapter eight. I really love Fitz:) He is such a lovely/cute kid. I love the way he describes things, so sweet."

One of the best parts of this series is the characters. Robin ..."

Total agreement. And she has written complex relationships that wonderfully and believably change and develop over time.

[Wen]

I also love that it encompasses a lot of senses about horses and dogs. (view spoiler)[”Burrich will have fits if you bread that colt’s knees,” I cried out in dismay and ran toward him. I was upset about this… POOR colt!!! (hide spoiler)] I guess I might love animals more than human species:)

[Jemppu]

Bobby wrote: "...One of the best parts of this series is the characters. Robin ..."

Yes! I'm especially tickled by the varied personalities between the princely brothers.

And Burrich's 'growth', which must be one of the most remarkable in the series.

[Wen]

I felt the relationship is so difficult but sweet too. And I love Fitz and Molly's evening beach walk, the view is so beautiful(I love beach walk too, especially in the morning:)

When Fitz answered Lady Patience's question about his mom, it sounds so sad...And when Fitz found Nosy, I was so happy but aslo sad again that Nosy is other people's dog now. It was meant for you, but it belongs to somone now.

I think I should try to stick to one book(I started in September and just left it utill now). I might have a tendency to open new stuff(like I have 6 boxes of ice cream now...and I'm not allowed to buy new ones unless I finish some of them. :(

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

So I know we're supposed to discuss book 1 in the regular threads but there are spoilers everywhere there and I'm not even halfway yet!

I wanted someone to talk to about something in Assassin's Apprentice, about 1/3 of the way through:

(view spoiler)[ Chivalry just died and Chade revealed that sometimes he helps change the plans of succession for political reasons. Fitz freaks out and says "so that's what it means to be an assassin??"

I feel like I've missed something? They've been doing things like that for a year or more at this point, and he knew assassins killed people. What changed? (hide spoiler)]

[Dawn F]

Allison: (view spoiler)[Yeah, no idea. Tbh the assassin part of the story, which going by the title is a fairly big part of the story/his life, doesn't make a whole lot of sense, nor is it utilized much. You, and Fitz, are basically never told much, except how to mix potions - maybe - and that's it. It annoyed me. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Argle bargle! That's annoying if that's the underlying answer, Dawn! Thanks for making me feel like I'm not alone at least ^^

[Travis]

Allison wrote: "Argle bargle! That's annoying if that's the underlying answer, Dawn! Thanks for making me feel like I'm not alone at least ^^"

I don't fully remember that bit, but I think I just told myself (view spoiler)[that Fitz saw assassin work as always on behalf of the royal line, so he was surprised to learn that assassins would work to interfere with that line. But, again, the memory is super, super fuzzy, so I could be way off. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Mm, that works, Travis. I like that.

[YouKneeK]

Allison wrote: "I wanted someone to talk to about something in Assassin's Apprentice, about 1/3 of the way through:"

Spoilers for chapter 7 of Assassin’s Apprentice.

(view spoiler)[Is this the part you’re talking about? Fitz is speaking with Chade about his father, just after he’s learned of his death. Chade tells Fitz that he worked “hand in glove” with Chivalry. When Fitz asks Chade what he means, Chade says, “Things can be done. Things can happen that make diplomacy easier. Or that make a party more willing to negotiate. Things can happen…” That’s when Fitz writes, “My world turned over. Reality burst on me as suddenly as a vision, the fullness of what Chade was and what I was to be.”

If that’s the part you mean, this is my interpretation of it. Along the lines of what Travis said, Fitz probably saw assassination as a way of killing bad people who were threatening the royal line and possibly its subjects. Basically, more cut-and-dry situations that he might not have felt much guilt over and might have even seen as noble.

On the other hand, what Chade was revealing was that he himself had killed people to make it easier for Chivalry to succeed in his negotiations, such as by assassinating somebody who was a stumbling block in the negotiations so they could get a more agreeable successor. As a reminder, Chivalry had been admired for his diplomacy skills. So what Chade was telling him was not only probably too far on the wrong side of the good vs evil line for Fitz, killing somebody for a non-life-or-death situation, but he also has the sudden shock of learning his own father was a party to it to at least some extent and that it wasn't purely his own skills that made him so successful.

Fitz isn’t very good at understanding subtleties, especially when he’s younger. An example of that is seen just before that when he fails to grasp that his father had to avoid him for his own safety. I was often exasperated at how people had to explain things to Fitz in excruciating detail before he finally got it, if he ever got it at all. (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

That's exactly the place I mean, YouKneeK, and your interpretation makes a lot of sense. Spoilers for ...chapters 7-10 maybe? (I'm listening to audio, the chapter changes are fast)

(view spoiler)[ Yeah, it's weird because I thought he'd made that connection when he was "playing games" and then suddenly votes would change or whatever, so I wasn't sure what he'd realized. But you're right, he is a bit dense for someone so insightful! I just read the bit where he realized all of the obstacles Verity would be facing but didn't realize the person holding the duchess' dog might be...the duchess. *eye roll* (hide spoiler)]

Okay, it's not a point I was mad about, I just felt like I'd missed a beat and as I am listening while I'm doing other things, it's possible I'd missed a clue somewhere along the way. I appreciate all of you helping me out! This is exactly why I love reading with a group ^^

[Travis]

YouKneeK wrote: "Allison wrote: "I wanted someone to talk to about something in Assassin's Apprentice, about 1/3 of the way through:"

Spoilers for chapter 7 of Assassin’s Apprentice.

Is this the part you’re talki..."

Oh, right! That interpretation makes so much sense.

[YouKneeK]

I’m a terrible audio listener, so I’m jealous of those of you who can effectively listen to audiobooks while getting other stuff accomplished! If I had listened to this on audio, I would probably remember that there was a boy, and maybe some animals, and some royal people, and not much else.

Nothing too spoilerish here, but just some general comments about Fitz and the story structure that won’t spoil anything you haven’t read yet…

(view spoiler)[There’s also a discrepancy between what Fitz-as-Protagonist understands versus what Fitz-as-Narrator understands. Fitz was taught by Chade to notice and remember details, which he’s very good at. He often doesn’t understand them until later when he has more experience and/or when other events make things click for him.

Fitz-as-Narrator on the other hand already knows these things, so I think that influences how he tells his story. He gives us exactly the right details in the right sequence so that we clearly understand what’s really going on in the story, but younger Fitz may not understand yet. Ok, I know, in reality it’s the author doing it, but don’t you dare try to tell me that Fitz isn’t a real person! ;) (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

Haha! Good point. I think that may be some of the confusion, too, (general spoilery comments about structure) (view spoiler)[ because I'm used to the author separating character and narrator knowledge somehow. A "I would learn later..." or a "I couldn't have known then," or allowing us to be as flummoxed as the character and having the conclusion reveal itself as naturally as it did for the character. So every now and then I feel like I slip on what's common knowledge and what we know Fitz the character to know. Not very often, as I said, I'm enjoying it, but it does make a few scenes a bit trickier. (hide spoiler)]

[YouKneeK]

Yeah, I think that was probably something I absorbed better the second time I read the book. I found myself a little less frustrated with Fitz in general the second time around. A little. :)

[Dawn F]

YouKneeK wrote: "Fitz isn’t very good at understanding subtleties, especially when he’s younger. An example of that is seen just before that when he fails to grasp that his father had to avoid him for his own safety. I was often exasperated at how people had to explain things to Fitz in excruciating detail before he finally got it, if he ever got it at all."

LMAO! You've captured the essense of Fit's perfectly! XD

[Wastrel]

Regarding the narration point, equally immensely vague spoiler: (view spoiler)[just wait until the later books, when future-Fitz-narrator talks about future-Fitz-character reflecting on current-Fitz-narrator, who by then is younger-Fitz, and what current-Fitz-narrator thought about current-Fitz-character and how current-Fitz-narrator was an idiot... (hide spoiler)]

[Allison, Fairy Mod-mother]

hahaha!

[Travis]

Wastrel wrote: "Regarding the narration point, equally immensely vague spoiler: [spoilers removed]"

This is actually one of my favorite parts of the Fitz series so far (though I have yet to read the final trilogy).

[Krystal]

Is it too late to jump on this discussion? From 2010?? XD Just finished it and I don't understand why people love it so much so it's been good to read these comments!

I liked Verity a lot but Fitz has got to be one of the most underwhelming assassins (apprentice) I have ever read about. Also super disappointed that a kid who can talk to animals doesn't get much more than a puppy and a few farm animals.

[Anthony]

I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy it. As for Fitz only getting to bond with one animal, the Wit is seen as a taboo ability, and Burrich pretty much forces him not to use it, so I think that’s the reason why he doesn’t bind with more animals.

I imagine you’re not interested in pursuing the rest of the trilogy since you didn’t enjoy this one, but there is really wonderful stuff that’s done with Fitz’s Wit ability in the other two books.

He also continues to grow as a character throughout the trilogy.

[YouKneeK]

Krystal wrote: "I liked Verity a lot but Fitz has got to be one of the most underwhelming assassins (apprentice) I have ever read about. Also super disappointed that a kid who can talk to animals doesn't get much more than a puppy and a few farm animals."

The title of the book is a bit misleading, I think. It’s true that Fitz is trained in the art of assassination, but there aren’t many actual assassinations in the series. There’s some violence and mayhem, but not a lot of premeditated, sneaky killing action that I think of when I hear the word “assassination”.

I’ll echo what Anthony said, that the Wit ability is used in much more interesting ways in future books.

This is one of my all-time favorite series, mostly because of how much I loved the characters and their relationships with each other. My interest in the series increased steadily as I read it and became more invested in the characters and the story, but I suspect this is a series where you probably wouldn’t like the subsequent books much better if you don’t like the first one. Her writing style across the Fitz books is pretty consistent. I have known people who disliked this trilogy but liked the second trilogy (Liveship Traders) much better, although other people have had the exact opposite opinion. There’s a bigger difference in the style between the two trilogies, so one might appeal when the other doesn’t. I liked both, but I love the Fitz stories best.

[uncomfytomato]

YouKneeK wrote: "Krystal wrote: "I liked Verity a lot but Fitz has got to be one of the most underwhelming assassins (apprentice) I have ever read about. Also super disappointed that a kid who can talk to animals d..."

I read that book's original title was "Chivalry's Bastard", but the publisher changed it to Assassin's apprentice (to attract more high fantasy fans I'm assuming?)