The Bronze Horseman discussion

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message 1: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
I know only one word is needed to describe Alexander, Shura, and enough is said. I do want to chat about him here though. What do you like about him? Dislike? Etc.

I do believe he is one of the best written heroes ever. I want to hear your thoughts on him :)


message 2: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments I really have to read TBH over again. I only read it once and then read some passages I really liked a few more dozen times.

But I have read TSG 2x completely and favorite passages about 20x sad I know.

So to me Alexander is someone so different from TBH Alexander.

One thing that has been vexing me is why did Dimitri have such a hold over him? Alexander was such a strong person and it seems like he may have been able to do something about Dima. Then that brings the question how strong was Alexander he seems actually flawed and maybe that is why he is so lovable.


message 3: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
No, rereading passages is not sad Kelly! I want to reread TBH as well. I think I could pick up so much now that I am familiar with the story. It has definitely stayed with me and I keep thinking about that book and about Alexander. The Dima relationship always puzzled me. Like you said he held a power of knowledge of Alexander's past over Alexander. I think that maybe if he had never met Tatiana, then maybe they would have made another attempt to escape the Soviet Union together. Other times, Alexander does not let Dima control him so... allowing Dima this supposed control was just really placating him the entire time, a facade.


message 4: by [deleted user] (last edited Mar 05, 2010 02:45PM) (new)

god .. to re-read this book will again open an emotional wound ...
Alexander is man like no other .. he will always be my hero in the book world ..
his strength when it came to the heartache sourrounding his upbringing ,, he was never a product of his parents he fought all his life to mean somethign ..
His ability to never give up ..the things he had to endure the hardship ow that man! .. the neglect .. the isolation ..
the strength he mastered .. the iron man he became .. the battles he won the conquests he devoured ..
the journey he travelled ..
the love he gave .. the love like no other man on this earth.. the sacrifices he made for tatia and her family ..
The man who never gave up !!!!!!!!ow god i love this man ... i think even more than my husband LOL
AMEN


message 5: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
Well said Rachael!

When I find a book that I absolutely love and has touched me so I definitely like reading it again... I need to read TBH again at some point.


message 6: by [deleted user] (new)

Cherly has not read TBH yet .. owww lucky her i wish i was reading it for the first time again :)


message 7: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
I agree! Is she going to read it?


message 8: by [deleted user] (new)

Alycia wrote: "I agree! Is she going to read it?"

yep she got it the other day .. lucky her


message 9: by ChristinaRae (last edited Mar 06, 2010 08:05PM) (new)

ChristinaRae | 163 comments Mod
Do you think Alexander would have been as yummy had he not gone to Russia and survived the things he did?
Would he be as appealing if he had been an average American dude?

(I'm of the opinion that guys get hotter when they get tougher)


message 10: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments ChristinaRae wrote: "Do you think Alexander would have been as yummy had he not gone to Russia and survived the things he did?
Would he be as appealing if he had been an average American dude?

(I'm of the opinion t..."



I still think Alexander would have been tough. You can see it in The Summer Garden when he gets mixed up in the construction company with the a**holes. He is just the type of guy that draws attention and demands respect. Although I think some parts of his personality were formed from being part of the Russian environment I still think he would have been a strong personality if he had never left America.


message 11: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
I think he still would have been tough even if he never lived in Russia. That definitely did shape his life... tough to say ChristinaRae.


message 12: by [deleted user] (new)

Alycia wrote: "I think he still would have been tough even if he never lived in Russia. That definitely did shape his life... tough to say ChristinaRae."

He can be anything .. id still do him


message 13: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
LOL! I think that is safe to say, the whole group would.


message 14: by Mishelle (new)

Mishelle LaBrash (mishalabrash) Alycia wrote: "LOL! I think that is safe to say, the whole group would."

That would make him one lucky guy, indeed.


message 15: by Diane (new)

Diane (LadyDi4476) | 107 comments Oh Alexander, how I love thee!

He is by far one of my fave all time favorite heroes after reading the trilogy. I do believe he would have been tough even if he had not gone to Russia and joined the Red Army and gone through all his trauma. Maybe not as tough, but his inner strength was always there. Sort of like how he protected his mother against his father at a very young age. He was not to be underestimated.

I do agree Alexander changed from TBH to TSG, but his soul was still the same. The man who loved Tania with all his heart and who never regretted crossing the street for her was still there. He was over shadowed by war and the terror he witnessed, but his undying love for her remained. What would he be without Tania? Therefore the best parts of him were still there.


message 16: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 163 comments Mod
Alycia wrote: "LOL! I think that is safe to say, the whole group would."

(he-he) That's pretty much what happened in the book, no?

Diane, that begs another question. Would he have been as great a guy without Tatiana? Or would he have just been a handsome filandering scallywag?


message 17: by Diane (new)

Diane (LadyDi4476) | 107 comments Haha, filandering scallywag? I love that!

Hmmm, you know that's a good question. He probably would have continued his scandalous ways, but for how long? I mean you could tell he was getting bored and the fact that he couldn't remember the names meant he wasn't truly enjoying his life style. Maybe he would have met someone else, but he would not be the same Alexander we know and love. Probably not as great no.


message 18: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
ChristinaRae wrote: "Alycia wrote: "LOL! I think that is safe to say, the whole group would."

(he-he) That's pretty much what happened in the book, no?

Diane, that begs another question. Would he have been as gr..."


HAHA! I didn't think of that when I made my earlier statement.


message 19: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments She made him the man we love!


message 20: by [deleted user] (new)

well said kell


message 21: by Diane (new)

Diane (LadyDi4476) | 107 comments She totally did! I know I didn't enjoy reading about Alexander as much in T & A until he met Tania. Then it was like relief. Shura was born! <3


message 22: by ChristinaRae (new)

ChristinaRae | 163 comments Mod
I actually think it was good for him (and us) to have to wait a year to do the deed with her. At that point you KNEW he was a reformed scallywag.


message 23: by Megan (new)

Megan | 410 comments The only thing I dislike about Alexander is that he's fictitious! Sometimes I have to remind myself that Tatiana and Alexander didn't exist in real life. Sob! He is fantastic, Paullina Simons hit the nail on the head with his character, he is EVERYTHING any woman must love in a man. He also transcends time... He would slot perfectly into my 2010 life! hehe ;)


message 24: by Kelly (last edited Jun 16, 2010 06:15AM) (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments Mumbo wrote: "The only thing I dislike about Alexander is that he's fictitious! Sometimes I have to remind myself that Tatiana and Alexander didn't exist in real life. Sob! He is fantastic, Paullina Simons hit t..."

Mumbo, I agree100%. I always consider him like a first love or first boyfriend. I don't see him anymore but I'll never forget him. The good thing is my husband never gets jealous! LOL


message 25: by Alycia (new)

Alycia | 549 comments Mod
The think that authors who make their characters seem so lifelike, like a friend or old boyfriend, did their job very well. Not everyone can do that.


message 26: by Toni (new)

Toni | 298 comments is no one talking about Alexander anymore? is that possible :)? i am new to this group, but am an absolutely devoted fan to these characters. Alexander Barrington/Belov is the best male character in literature. She created the perfect man and yet she gave him his flaws which made him even more desirable. Truly beautiful writing.I've heard others write that there is a character called Jamie in the outlander series that is close. is this true? i just ordered it, but do i have something to look forward to? i thought it all down hill after Alexander (swoon!). I'm sure this Jamie is no Alexander (who could be) but I'll take a close second. I have a feeling I'm going to have to re-read TBH and the rest again soon. I just was hoping to give it a little time to 'forget' a little, but I need an Alexander 'fix' so I might have to just jump in there!!!


message 27: by [deleted user] (new)

Haha, yeah, Alexander is such a complex character. Even now, I still think about the book all the time. It's addictive. I like how dark Alexander is but still with plenty of emotions.


message 28: by Megan (last edited Apr 09, 2011 07:14PM) (new)

Megan | 410 comments Alexander is sex-on-legs! He is gorgeous, strong, masculine, intelligent etc etc. Jamie is all those but also funny and innocent too. In Outlander I LOVE that Claire is the older, more experienced of the two - admittedly the whole fascination with Tatiana's innocence did irritate me a bit, it was a bit cliched, that was my only criticism of Alexander's nature - it was fine for him to be experienced with the ladies but he got all weird about Tatiana telling a dirty joke! But you can't compare them - not only are they physically very different, they're from different eras and countries which is as much of who they are as their outer characteristics and nature. But personally, physically Alexander makes me swoon - he's everything I find attractive in a man, whereas Jamie's appearance has never been what attracts me to his character, he's opened my eyes to red-headed men, but I can't say I find him as physically attractive as Alexander, but I think personality wise, he's edged Alexander out by a nose, it's the witty nature that I love.


message 29: by Megan (new)

Megan | 410 comments LOL, here I am saying you can't compare them and I just did! hehe - ignore me!


message 30: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments Megan wrote: "Alexander is sex-on-legs! He is gorgeous, strong, masculine, intelligent etc etc. Jamie is all those but also funny and innocent too. In Outlander I LOVE that Claire is the older, more experienced ..."

Megan I just put the red hair out of my mind!!! LOL it was easy to do until Bree came around!

I agree about Alexander being so complex the depth to him in TSG was just amazing! So tortured and changed but yet still the same!

I never thought how completely opposite the roles between the h/h of Outlander and TBH are until I read your post.

One man was a whore and the other a Virgin yet I would take both! What does that make me? LOL!!!!!!


message 31: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments Toni wrote: "is no one talking about Alexander anymore? is that possible :)? i am new to this group, but am an absolutely devoted fan to these characters. Alexander Barrington/Belov is the best male character ..."

Toni I could talk about and read about him all day!!!
I'm always picking up my copy and reading a bit. I was just reading when Dasha makes stew eats it all and then Alexander gives Tatiana the spam!!! She loves it! I have never had the pleasure to try it but don't feel I'm missing out!


message 32: by Megan (new)

Megan | 410 comments LOL! Kelly, well I'd be lining up behind you for a bit of action ;)

Urgh, spam - gross! Although even I was salivating at that part of the book, it was a delicacy in comparison to wallpaper glue and wood-chips! I swear I lost a few kg the first time I read it. I felt guilty eating and reading about them licking wallpaper!


message 33: by Toni (new)

Toni | 298 comments It is so nice to have people understand that it is possible to be in lust over a non-existent entity (oh but he is oh so real as painted by paulina simmons in heartbreakingly perfect prose). He IS the epitome of all that is masculine and gorgeous and sexy. When he gets angry and almost violent with Tatiana and I want to believe that it is wrong, yet I STILL find his temper sexy. Does Alexander do anything wrong? I was putting off re-reading it again b/c I thought it too soon to enjoy thoroughly (basically on February 24 I started TBH followed by T&A then TSG which I finished March 30-basically whenever I had a free moment I read, meaning no meals, no sleep BUT I DID have SHURA (did I need anything else??? I think not!). Then I was convinced from reading some of these great posts that I would love it just as much, so I couldn't resist and picked it up yesterday. It is amazing how I am now not just enjoying the story but also really picking up on the detail (and connecting all three books). I got a good smile off of Kelly's post about putting aside the idea of the red hair (Jamie from Outlander). When I heard that the infamous Jamie (who I will begin reading about after I finish up with delectable Alexander)I was put off by the red hair myself but intrigued by everyone's admiration and attraction towards him. To me, the PERFECT man is Alexander. So I was thinking to myself that I would just have to turn the red hair into a DARK auburn in my head when I read Kelly's post. Too funny!


message 34: by Megan (new)

Megan | 410 comments Toni, Alexander is definitely sexy - even the controlling angry part of him, but forgive me for saying this, sometimes Tatiana made ME want to shake her! She frustrated me (particularly in The Summer Garden and at the beginning of the Lazarevo section of TBH).

In regards to Jamie, I actually don't put the red-hair aside in my mind, but rather, have a newfound appreciation for red-headed men. I don't think Jamie would be quite as magnificent if he had drab brown hair, the red hair makes him more unique...


message 35: by Tina (last edited Apr 14, 2011 02:43PM) (new)

Tina | 231 comments I as well want to say "what are you doing Tatiana" in Lazarevo when Alexander went to find her. That has to be my favorite part of the book, when he sees her (his true love) for the first time standing there (alive) and then she sees him, screams and runs into his open arms. *sigh* Then he mentions Dasha and Tatiana turns on him. OMG- what is she thinking??!!!


message 36: by Toni (new)

Toni | 298 comments tina I am JUST reading that now (re-reading it, second time for me)! I completely know what you are saying. After ALL THAT she turns on him! I was twice as frustrated about it the second time. But Lazarevo...WOW!...I am just at the part where Alexander is brooding about leaving - can he do anything without being knock down drag out drop dead sexy?!
megan I was not just frustrated in The Summer Garden, I didn't get it. I mean again I'll say..after ALL THAT, why oh why does she want to work every day all day-with Alexander (not to mention Anthony!) at home WANTING her there with him. Why??? But when he starts to get things going on with Carmen in the back of the car my heart just sunk. Totally sunk. I had to re-read it to be sure that he actually went thru with it-the bit that he did. And would he have gone farther if he could have? Ugh! But Tatiana...what was she thinking? Then that fight. What a scene. My stomach was wrenched reading that. It was insanely wonderful in all it's pathos. There has been one thread going on that I'd love for you and tina and anyone else to give their opinion on. People were saying that she was taking birth control-which is why she didn't get pregnant with ALL THAT love going on and on and on. I completely did not get that out of the book. I am going to re-read it after TBH & T&A and I will specificially LOOK for that insinuation (if it is or is not there) so I will have my own answer, but I am curious. I seriously did not get that at all. Why would she do that? That would go against EVERYTHING that IS Tatiana (in my mind). She would never deny Alexander-then again, there she was denying him with her incessant work schedule, therein that lies my quesioning of it? I couldn't imagine her doing it? But is it possible? what do you think???
Oh, and Megan..love your take on the red-hair thing. I will have to go in with an open mind. I don 't immediately have a thing for red heads (though now that I think of it a red head or two comes to mind that I find attractive..hmmm...) I have to let the writer overtake me with the character and then, as you said, have a firm appreciation for the red hair. That is the beauty of a great writer, of a great book. Thanks for that little comment. It will surely only deepen my appreciation for this Jamie I have been hearing wonders about. Can't wait to dig in!!!


message 37: by Milena (new)

Milena (love_tea78) | 157 comments Tatiana did not take any birth control, I really don't know how some people got that impression. I have read TSG few times and there is absolutely no mention or clues to it. I agree with you, Toni, this would go against everything Tatiana is!!!


message 38: by Jessica (new)

Jessica | 183 comments Yeah Tatiana wasn't using any contraception - what thread are you referring to Toni?


message 39: by Tina (new)

Tina | 231 comments I agree..there is no way, no how that Tatiana took birth control..why did she not get pregnant with all that "loving" I don't know. (stress, not in the stars) whatever it was.. it wasn't her not wanting Alexander's baby!!! She would never do that. She loves him too much. Toni, When Alexander had that "thing" with Carman, I had to put the book down as I was reading it. It was so heart breaking. And that fight scene was so heart wrenching I cried for days. The things they said to each other were the worst. But their love shined through it all!!! Yeah!!!


message 40: by Toni (new)

Toni | 298 comments Jessica-I definitely read a long string from a thread a few days back where many (!) people (or at least too many for my taste-but to each his own!) were saying that they thought that Tatiana was definitely taking birth control. Some people were saying she used an IUD I think, and some people even put in, if I can correctly recall, little statements or indirect quotes that insinuated she was taking birth control - that said I personally in NO WAY got that out of the book and there were others on that thread that also agreed it was impossible and did not happen, but some disagreed.Weird, isn't it? So against Tatiana who was always true to herself. Remember he said he came to her that day because she already knew who she was (when she asked him what he thought he gave her, he said 'offerings' -sigh, sob-).Anyhow, I went back and looked and cannot find it, but it is there. I will look again,now I am curious myself on which thread it was. Does anyone else recall what thread it was where people were discussing Tatiana taking or not taking birth control??? Thanks.


message 41: by Tina (new)

Tina | 231 comments Those people seem to be making up their own thing..because there is no way that it says or even hints in TSG that Tatiana is taking birth control.


message 42: by Toni (new)

Toni | 298 comments oh, and to clarify Jessica, the thread itself wasn't a few days back, I just read it then. I don't recall when it was from. I am new to this great board, so it is possible I went farther back to read comments. Not sure when it was, but it was. When I find it I will post it for you if no one else does first.
Another comment too-when Alexander wanted her to get the abortion (sob)so they could safely make it to America (via Finland) she said no way as it was HIS baby and all that, she would never purposefully try not to get pregnant with Alexander's baby.


message 43: by Milena (new)

Milena (love_tea78) | 157 comments Toni, I agree. Tatiana even said in TSG that she cannot deny Alexander anything!!!


message 44: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments Toni wrote: "It is so nice to have people understand that it is possible to be in lust over a non-existent entity (oh but he is oh so real as painted by paulina simmons in heartbreakingly perfect prose). He IS..."

Yes Toni he is no carrot top! LOL


message 45: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments Tina wrote: "I as well want to say "what are you doing Tatiana" in Lazarevo when Alexander went to find her. That has to be my favorite part of the book, when he sees her (his true love) for the first time stan..."

She is 17!!!!!!!!!! With no experience with men!


message 46: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments Toni wrote: "tina I am JUST reading that now (re-reading it, second time for me)! I completely know what you are saying. After ALL THAT she turns on him! I was twice as frustrated about it the second time. But..."

OMG I NEVER NEVER got that she was on Birth Control..... That is just a horrid thought! It happens all the time couples trying so very hard to have a baby and can't. Then the adopt and bam! Baby! Stress etc. contributes!

As far as her working all the hours. My thought on that is they are so very different from TBH, While Alexander does come around from his PTSD he is still altered. I believe with all my being that they are so in love and destined to be and the happy times are so happy but they have problems. She is unhappy and something at the hospital takes away the pain she feels from the loss of the old T&A and the loss of her family. She even says to the Dr. that her fate was sealed long ago. When he crossed the street for her. There is no other way for them. When they are fighting after the Carmen thing Alexander says something to the effect that there is no apart for them.
That is why I LOVE TSG it is so real you make a commitment you fall in love and it is NOT easy it is work and you stick with it.
Alexander love is a painful one so wonderful yet so many painful memories. What a double edge sword no one can understand except them yet everytime you look at that person you remember.
Even with Antman. They still have the memories of when he was concived and how she left him to find Alexander. I think they needed the babies to look towards the future to bring joy and new memories!!


message 47: by Kelly (new)

Kelly  | 637 comments I still have my jaw dropped to the floor thinking anyone could get the BC thought from TSG.

BLASPHEMY I SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


message 48: by Megan (last edited Apr 17, 2011 07:51PM) (new)

Megan | 410 comments I can't remember any reference to birth control either... Anyway, I know the pill celebrated it's 50 year anniversary recently, so please someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't TSG set before the sexual revolution in the 60s?? And as so far as the IUD reference, well my understanding is that this came about even later. I know Tatiana is the only woman Alexander slept with WITHOUT a condom so that wasn't an option either... So even after re-reads if I managed to skip over that reference, what type of birth control would she have used?


message 49: by Toni (new)

Toni | 298 comments Kelly-I know, when I read those threads I was floored and there were a good amount of people that totally believed it and as I mentioned earlier even gave passages where they interpreted that she was on bc. I was shocked to say the least. I have been looking for that thread and can't find it and now that is driving me nuts. It was on this site I'm sure of it-well, I will come to it at some point, but it was truly weird all the responses. And those people that believed it were deadset on it. They said that she did not want a baby until she thought he was cheating. Hello? Does any of that sound like Tatiana? I think not. Once again Kelly, I have to agree with you (with a chuckle at that)...BLASPHEMY INDEED!!!
But the truth is just as you said, they had and were going thru a lot, nursing was ALWAYS an escape for her. In TBh and in T&A-it kept her busy, it kept her mind off all her troubles and heartaches and she was always intent on helping others (her terminals) in a way that she felt she could (and then maybe couldn't) help Alexander. They both were going thru so many changes and YES the beauty of their love was that it wasn't always Lazarevo (sigh), it was real life and no real life is without it's difficulties, but their love got them thru it all. But Tatiana on bc, NO WAY!!! (I will find that thread for you all-if interested-if its the last thing I do :) )

Just started Outlander the other day. I am excited to get into a book in a similar way I did to TBH (and sequels) but I am worried that my expectations may be too high. I am only on maybe page twenty and I'm like-where's Jamie, where is this infamous Jamie...I need another 'Alexander-esque' fix. Enough w/ Frank, I never hear anyone sigh over Frank...bring on Jamie! (I know, it's all part of the book, but I feel the way about Alexander the way you hear books talk about addicts. He is like a fix that I will always be looking to re-create, but I never will. That is Alexander to me...like a drug....someone had mentioned we need to start a club, another AA, but this time it's Alexander Anonymous!!!!!! (and truly, no offense WHATSOEVER to anyone who truly suffers with a true addiction..other than Alexander Barrington/Belov)


message 50: by Toni (new)

Toni | 298 comments Jessica-and anyone confused/interested in my comment about Tatiana not being on birth control-well I found the thread, only it wasn't on GR. I was surprised b/c I really am not on other sites, but I guess I was online buying some books from Amazon.com (outlander is one!) 10 days ago and I went to the TBH page (can't help myself) and there is a thread at the bottom with many comments. It is there that a handful of people bring up and discuss the birth control issue. Sorry I brought it up here to confuse anyone but anyhow it is ODD that people thought that. I re-read the thread and someone said that they swear they read (and re-read b/c they were shocked) that Tatiana in one single line of the book mentions that she had a dr friend of hers make a cap (?) for her for bc. Another person mentioned that in one passage when Alexander is worried that Tatiana will smell Carmen (blahh!) on him, she worries that he will smell the bc on her(IUD I think they said possibly w/ some gel-I don't know). I believe I read that book w/ a fine tooth comb and I completely disagree that there was a mention of that, but there you go, that is what one person said. Then two or three others said that they too read a line or so where she refers or insinuates it. Of course many (!) people disagreed with those comments. I don't know, I did not read that at all and as I mentioned I cannot even fathom that being anything Tatiana would do. But I suppose some people saw it differently. Interesting you can read the same book and some people read something so different into it. Anyhow, just wanted to follow up since it obviously came out of left field in that first post of mine mentioning it.


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