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Thread Of Dire Judgment
Cait, interestingly I read Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius, actually enjoyed it, but have maintained my disdain for Eggers and have not read another book by him. So... completely the opposite of your reaction. :)Kaion wrote: "But the whole point is to get to know people via the "compare books" feature. (You know, and flirt with making them hate you forever.)"
I think people are worried about causing offense.
And I agree with you on Wicked. I think. I've never been able to finish it.
But 3-stars for Watchmen??
El, many of your books are on my TBR list! Great choices! You've got a pretty good * system going, too, but I have to ask.......5* for Anna Karenina....and only 2* for Middlesex??!!!! Perhaps you meant the ratings the other way around?
I listened to Middlesex on audio and found it rich and deep and lush. Loved every word.
Anna.....woe, woe, woe...........
El, well said about The Fountainhead. I don't agree, but I like what you said. (But seriously, don't bother with Atlas Shrugged. Same book but much longer and worse.)Who brought up Eggers? I am a defender. I certainly get how people could hate him, but I think he's one of the great writers of our generation. (Let's fight!)
As great as I thought A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius was, I thought he might be a one-trick pony; I was so happy when I read What Is the What and realized that it was even better. I actually think Eggers is a big dog; I think he's writing Important Things.
Can't wait to read Zeitoun.
El, I loved "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen to death, but I didn't love Watchmen. I thought it was good, that's all. (Slay away!) Alan Moore is important, but for me League is his opus.
The Watchmen is Alan Moore's bestest, Alex! You have stinky taste...I haven't read The League yet, so I guess I can't be too harsh, but still. Have you read Promethea, I know no one reads those but me, but I really like them.El, I love your books. A fellow Dark Tower reader?! Which one is your favourite? I can't find anything to make fun of on your shelf, our ratings are too similar...And as for Neil Gaiman, I haven't read American Gods, or Coraline, or Stardust, mostly I just really love Sandman. Best graphic novel series ever! They're so genius.
Speaking of awesome 80s movies...Clash of the Titans, anyone? They're doing a remake, you know. Normally I am against remakes but COTT with today's CGI is gonna be amazing!! Plus, the wimpy Harry Hamlin as Perseus is being replaced by a much studlier guy called Sam Worthington whom I have never heard of but who looks like he can kick ass and take some names while wooing fair maiden chained to rocks.As for Eggers....he's uneven, I'll grant you that. A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius was amusing, Zeitoun was OK, but What Is the What is...a heatbreaking work of staggering genius. Really.
I too am eager to see the remake of 'Clash of the Titans'. So I read some comments on Jodi Piccoult and feel obligated to say that even though I haven't read her, she is among one of my wife's favorite authors along with Nicholas Sparks.
Petra, yeah, Alex already reamed me for my opinion of Middlesex. That was a matter more of everyone raving about it too much, so by the time I got to it I was just like, "Yeah, and so?" It just didn't work for me, I was bored throughout most of it, and I didn't find it all that fantastic. But Anna Karenina is fantastic. Sure, it's a long Russian novel, but I found it to be a beautiful long Russian novel - granted there are few long Russian novels I don't find beautiful. Tolstoy is one of the greats.Alex wrote: "I actually think Eggers is a big dog; I think he's writing Important Things."
I think the problem I have with Eggers is he thinks he is a big dog and he thinks he's writing Important Things. I don't have patience for that. I also agree that he's done wonderful things for the writing community, but he's too pleased with himself over it. There's a thing call humility, and he does not have that. There's also a personal experience I have from when I worked in an independent bookstore in Missouri when Genius came out, and how he agreed to do a reading and signing in our store, but then gave all his copies to a different venue and went there instead without having the balls to tell the owner of our store that he changed his mind. That rubbed me the wrong way and reeked of Too-Big-for-His-Britches as well as Chip-on-His-Shoulder.
That said, I loved watching Where the Wild Things Are and I screamed out loud in anger when I found out he was involved with the writing of Away We Go, another wonderful movie. I want to hate everything he does because I think he's too full of himself. He's pretentious. I hate that.
Jayme wrote: "El, I love your books. A fellow Dark Tower reader?! Which one is your favourite? I can't find anything to make fun of on your shelf, our ratings are too similar."
Thanks, Jayme! We have good taste! :) I have to say The Gunslinger is probably my favorite. I know that's an easy answer, but really. It's fantastic. I felt that when King returned to the series after so many years (like the rest of his writing) it didn't have the same impact. To be honest, I still haven't even finished the final book. I got about halfway through and got distracted by something shiny. I need to probably just start all over. And by that I mean start from Book One and work until the end again. Wizards and Glass was great too. Okay, really the first four books were my favorite.
Let me throw this out and see what people think. One of my favorite books of last year was 'The Gargolye' by Andrew Davidson. I found it to be very interesting and unique. I also liked the first-person story telling versus the story telling of Marianne. I'm hopeful and anxious that Davidson will write another book as I would be interested in following his career.
Alan Moore is a genius! I love everything he ever wrote, my favorites being Watchmen, V and From Hell. I don't know that I would have phrased his importance as a writer in the way Jayme did, but I won't argue:DWizards and Glass Is my favorite DT book, I think. Becky and I are doing a re-read this year, so I may change my mind.
I am seriously laughing out loud reading this thread. For example....Jayme writes, "I still say gross to Sookie Stackhouse." El writes, "I got about halfway through and got distracted by something shiny." Cait writes, "I wanted to smother Holden with a pillow." And, I love Hannah's term "book crack." I had a major book crack problem last year with Twilight...don't get me started. Turning my attention to Kaion (lights dim, eyes narrow, ominous music starts to play): I loved Wicked!! The Wicked Witch isn't pathetic, she actually reminds me of ME- awkward, passionate and a litle bit mean (to quote from my review). The Book War is on (how do I insert a mean face here??)
Actually, Kaion, we have a fundamental difference of opinion. My favorite books are among your lowest rated! Of Mice and Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Poisonwood Bible and Jane Eyre all get 5 stars from me and only 1 or 2 stars from you. In the words of Jerry Seinfeld, what's the deal with that?!?!?
Eeewww, wicked witch was an insipid piece of delusional faerie tale. How is that one.
I totally agree, that's the problem with Eggers. He thinks he's a genius, which makes you want to punch him in the face and hate all his books.Too bad they're pretty good.
El wrote: "Cait, interestingly I read Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius, actually enjoyed it, but have maintained my disdain for Eggers and have not read another book by him. So... completely the oppos..."I don't think I've ever been personally offended by differing opinion on books before- it's hardly as if we're debating the philosophical merits of Mein Kampf here. In fact, it's almost relieving that other people might find messages of value (not matter how little I think the work embodies that message)in something I despise.
Watchmen: Err... my excuse is that it's not that accessible to those of us uninformed about costumed heroes. And there's a terribly boring subplot with zombie (?) pirates. And 3 stars is not a negative rating. (And proliferations of fan adoration and movies based on Alan Moore's work aside, I know nothing about Alan Moore except he wouldn't know subtlety if it punched him in the face. But in the good way.)
Eliza wrote: "Actually, Kaion, we have a fundamental difference of opinion. My favorite books are among your lowest rated! Of Mice and Men, To Kill a Mockingbird, The Poisonwood Bible and Jane Eyre all get 5 s..."
Oh Elphaba reminded me of myself too- which is why I resented Wicked even more. Maguire made her fail at everything! And in the end it was all because of FATE (and date rape). Amnesiac pregnancy. Dorothy the Jesus figure.
Jane Eyre: He locked his wife in the attic! That's a deal breaker (in the words of Liz Lemon). (And seemed to say very poor things about people of color, as well.) Love is sharing and caring and equal-ness. I'm not entirely sure what Jane and Mr. Rochester have. (Well, except societal equal-ness at the end, 'cause she's poor and he's blind.)
Actually, I'm opposed to any storyline that involves the scary scary wind/lightning/rain that literally makes people feel heightened emotion.
Yay for the Wizard and Glass shout outs. That one was my favourite, although Gunslinger is pretty much tied. I cried like a little baby when Susan died, even though you know from book one that it's already happened. And yeah, the series wasn't the same after King came back to it.And I'm a fan of Wicked too, maybe she is a little pathetic, but I liked that.
I'm going to have to try an Eggers book because you guys are intriguing me. And I can see how with a title like A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius he might have just a little ego...
I read half of Mein Kampf before. Like Twilight I just wanted to know what the big deal was. I hate to argue against something without having personal experience to back it. Even though I didn't agree with Hitler's beliefs, I thought I should try reading him before trashing his book. The problem was he wasn't a very good writer.
Hitler wasn't outstanding as a painter either. Vampire books yucky! Sucks our brains and our wallets.
Wow... there are a lot of spoilers in here! Watch out incautious readers! LOLI'm a HUGE HUGE HUGE Dark Tower fan. My favorites are Drawing of the Three and Wolves of the Calla. I'm weird, I know. My least favorite *prepares for reaming* is W&G. That one just drags for me, comparably to the others anyway, and I just find myself wanting to get it over with, EVEN THOUGH I love Roland and Susan and all of the characters. It's strange.
carol (akittykat) wrote: "Vampire books yucky! Sucks our brains and our wallets."Carol, I read this and thought for a second it said "Sucks our brains out through our wallets." which I think is more apt! LOL
Yeah, I've read Mein Kampf as well, though I refuse to rate it. (Grad course on Nazi Germany - required reading.)
I just spent five creepy minutes reading five-star reviews of Mein Kampf. (Which I have not read myself.) Many of them just say "Good to understand the mind of a crazy dude," but some of them say crap like "SO inspiring!" My favorite was this one:
im getting this for my dad for fathers day and when he acts offended im gonna be all "what, you and mom ACT like nazis, you don't dig hitler? don't be a fucking poser dad, read up on your main man!!"
Ah, teenagers.
LOL... Is it wrong that I find that funny?
No that was funny. Kids say the darnedest things LOL
One of my R/L friends is studying to be a history teacher with a focus on Nazi Germany, so he's always talking about Nazis and Hitler and such. Luckily, I find it horrifyingly fascinating too, so it doesn't scare me as much as it probably should that he's such an expert on the techniques and methods used etc. Plus, he's one of those people who can argue for or against anything with skill though, to the point when you're left wondering what position you started out in yourself. Its always exciting when he gets going on a subject he's passionate about! :P
Man, I loved Clash of the Titans when I was a kid.Coincidentally, the trailer for the new one just came on TV. I'm deeply suspicious, but the trailer was okay.
Ugh....The Shack was just droll(am I spelling that word right)...how many ways can one thing be explained...I think at one point I must have been sleep-reading to get through it. The Lacuna(B.Kingsolver)...as much as I've loved her other books, this one barely got one star from me....Wow...could not hold my interest in any sense of the word.
carol (akittykat) wrote: "Hitler wasn't outstanding as a painter either. Vampire books yucky! Sucks our brains and our wallets."Oh goodness, if only Hitler was a good painter and his father had just let him go to art school instead. I can't read that book without having my blood boil. People should have read it years ago and realised what a nutjob they were dealing with.
Jamaie wrote: "Ugh....The Shack was just droll(am I spelling that word right)...how many ways can one thing be explained...I think at one point I must have been sleep-reading to get through it."I don't think 'droll' is the right word there Jamaie. It means amusing or humorous. 'Dull' would be a better fit, unless you mean that you had to laugh at it because it was so repetitive and yawn-inducing. LOL
sounds like i need to read some ayn rand just so I can choose my side in the debate!!
So I'm going to subject myself to judgment and say that I gave two stars to Farenheit 451. I read it in high school during a finals week and I don't think I properly absorbed it (especially since I barely remember it). I really need to re-read that one, because I think I would enjoy it much more this time around.
This reminds me of Godwin's Law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
I've never heard that law, now I'm always going to be waiting to see if Nazis pop up!
Holy smokes, if you search for Nazi or Hitler in the discussions, it comes up on a lot of threads!
It's an oooooold geek joke, still depressingly true: discussions turn into heated discussions and those turn into someone comparing the other side to Nazis.We have a different twist on it on this thread, of course, since it was making fun of Mein Kampf instead of someone getting all heated and crazy. Because we are awesome in this thread.
Every one take a bow. My family calls me the general if they don't like what I say. I haven't been called a Nazis yet.
Wasn't a fan of The Secret Life of Bees but I did like Water for Elephants just cuz it was different
Oh my god, I'm such a doof. I was thinking people just really liked discussing Nazis...I didn't think about the fact they'd be calling each other Nazis. Duh!
Someone gave me Ayn Rand and told me "She was the best" I told my old Undergrad professor and he told me that I was "reading trash! Rand was a communist!" so he gave me The Things They Carried in which I loved!
Whoopy I liked the elephant not to impressed with the bees though.. Felt like a knock off to other coming of age novels, like The Heart Is A Lonely Hunter.
I didn't know people still used the excuse that someone was a "communist" in reasoning why certain literature should not be read. I'm not sure it's correct information about Rand even. :)
Communism is to Ayn Rand as water is to the Wicked Witch. Your prof had not read her.Not that I'm defending her, I'd just like people to hate her for the right reasons. :P
Here's a scathing takedown of Rand that summarizes her philosophy (I think) fairly accurately. (Sorry to Rand fans; while I agree with the article, I wouldn't have phrased it quite that stridently.)
Only a Nazi would accuse Ayn Rand of communism! Ta-dah!
I'm reminded of an old Monty Python sketch about a philosophy department, who were allowed to teach Marx "as long as they say he was wrong."
I was about to reply to Xox's comment about The Shack, but then I saw she had given 5 stars to The Lovely Bones. Tsk tsk tsk. (That's the sound of JUDGMENT).
Lovely Bones was skeletal, The Shack was dilapidated.
Carol, it's no fair when your profile is set to private :P.All this talk of Ayn Rand makes me want to read her. But I'm afraid I'm too old. And you know, plushy and (mostly) lazy to (mentally) go into the counter-culture misanthropic movement.
Liz wrote: "So I'm going to subject myself to judgment and say that I gave two stars to Farenheit 451. I read it in high school during a finals week and I don't think I properly absorbed it (especially since ..."
Aww Liz, two stars is hardly a condemnation. I just read it this summer (yes, cause apparently I didn't read *any* of the high school books everyone else seems to have). I like Bradbury's heightened style, but I don't really buy into any of the characters. (We get it, he hates TV.) It's a little too broadly written for me? But it's short and to the point, which I greatly appreciate.
As for my own dire judgment, Lord of the Rings: I've seen the movies twice but only have read them once. (Don't think I could get through The Two Towers again... or the whole portion of Fellowship the happens before Rivendell.)
And back to Watchmen, to be completely fair to it, I know relatively little about the Cold War. And I fully plan to
Xox, I rated the entire Twilight series very high because I rate the books I'm reading based on what I expect from them. Meyer doesn't have great writing skills, but she got me to read 4 pretty big novels in about 10 days because I just HAD TO KNOW what would happen next. I think a writer can learn technical skills, but NOT how to get an idea.
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As for American Psycho, that's a tough one to rate. You know how some people cover their eyes and peek through their fingers when they're watching a scary movie? Have you ever done that while reading? I have, and it was with American Psycho. Some parts were so gruesome it made me cringe, other parts were amusing and somewhat funny, and then other parts were more tedious than watching paint dry. There was, however, one part near the end of the book that was written so damn well (like blink and you'll miss it) that I had to reread the section 2 or 3 times in utter admiration. I ended up giving it 4 stars.